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4 Posts
Evil Geniuses's  HuK defeated ROOT Gaming's  MaSa 4-0 in the grand finals of ShoutCraft America to become the champion of the North America-only tournament. HuK takes home a first place prize of $2,500, while runner-up Masa wins $1,200.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/bisquebracket2.png) Click for detailed results
The eight contestants for the second ShoutCraft America were selected through the North American ladder (with one seed being given to previous tournament winner  mYi.Kane) rankings, with many notable names such as Scarlett, HuK, Demuslim, and Major making it into the tournament. However, the several of the tournament's more well-known players found themselves going out in the very first round for a variety of reasons such as illness, poor internet conditions, or in Scarlett's case, well-planned cheese.
In the end, it was one of North American's old school champions in HuK who came through to win the title, sweeping MaSa decisively in the finals.
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The final was so silly. Just 4 games of BOP! Really good to see HuK win though 
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Fun games, albeit finals were a bit anticlimactic.
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Hm, what did Hitman do to beat Scarlett? o.o
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Really, I need to pay to see VODs from this?
Reminder: this is not GSL. -_-
EDIT: Right, 0 views on the scarlett games VODs :X
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your Country52797 Posts
On December 09 2013 09:12 purakushi wrote:
Hm, what did Hitman do to beat Scarlett? o.o
He became a Sniper and took her out
he cheesed
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United States23455 Posts
On December 09 2013 09:12 sd_andeh wrote:
Really, I need to pay to see VODs from this?
Reminder: this is not GSL. -_-
EDIT: Right, 0 views on the scarlett games VODs :X
They will be up on TB's youtube channel I believe.
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On December 09 2013 09:12 sd_andeh wrote:
Really, I need to pay to see VODs from this?
Reminder: this is not GSL. -_-
EDIT: Right, 0 views on the scarlett games VODs :X
I think they will be on youtube for free.
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Congrats to HuK and EG! EG on a roll! 
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Starcraft didnt become big because people paid for it. fyi mr TB.
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United States33492 Posts
whoa I've inadvertently set a flame trap for TB
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On December 09 2013 09:23 belgid wrote:
Starcraft didnt become big because people paid for it. fyi mr TB.
On December 09 2013 09:25 Waxangel wrote:
whoa I've inadvertently set a flame trap for TB
What is this in regards to?
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Russian Federation604 Posts
Lol why Scarlett lose to Hitman? This such a joke///
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Why is 2-1 enough for masa and huk and not hitman and kane?
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On December 09 2013 09:32 Thrill wrote:
Why is 2-1 enough for masa and huk and not hitman and kane?
Major forfeited after game 3 due to lag issues.
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On December 09 2013 09:29 jackslater wrote:
Lol why Scarlett lose to Hitman? This such a joke///
Because Hitman held off two early pools from Scarlett and had several 2 base timings that Scarlett could not hold off. The last game Scarlett did not scout the 8 gate all-in and was being somewhat greedy.
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On December 09 2013 09:32 Thrill wrote:
Why is 2-1 enough for masa and huk and not hitman and kane?
both forfeited their matches
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At first I was bummed I missed it.
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I didn't even know this was going on, i'd definitely watch if i knew =(.
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On December 09 2013 09:25 Waxangel wrote:
whoa I've inadvertently set a flame trap for TB
disregard. Person obviously crazy
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On December 09 2013 09:46 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 09:25 Waxangel wrote:
whoa I've inadvertently set a flame trap for TB disregard. Person obviously crazy
LOL. Funny because it's true and rightly insulting.
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On December 09 2013 09:36 Outsited wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 09:32 Thrill wrote:
Why is 2-1 enough for masa and huk and not hitman and kane? both forfeited their matches
MajOr forfeited his match because of lag issues (he was at a LAN at the time.)
DeMusliM forfeited his match due to illness (reddit attributed this to him getting drunk during karaoke the previous night and having a bad hangover.)
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Was Scarlett playing from Europe or had just gotten back?
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Congrats to Huk. Now get back into irrelevancy.
joke
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On December 09 2013 09:56 Jacmert wrote:
Was Scarlett playing from Europe or had just gotten back?
From EU, but her losses were more due to lack of scouting than miscontrol.
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Hitman doing the upset. :O
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On December 09 2013 09:56 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 09:36 Outsited wrote:On December 09 2013 09:32 Thrill wrote:
Why is 2-1 enough for masa and huk and not hitman and kane? both forfeited their matches MajOr forfeited his match because of lag issues (he was at a LAN at the time.) DeMusliM forfeited his match due to illness ( reddit attributed this to him getting drunk during karaoke the previous night and having a bad hangover.)
so pro
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Change the YouTube vod link from TotalHalibut to TotalBiscuit, the latter is where is StarCraft stuff is whereas the former is his general gaming stuff.
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Good job to Huk, and to TotalBiscuit and his staff.
I didn't had any interest in watching it, but I do hope it was a success numbers wise.
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United States33492 Posts
On December 09 2013 10:02 broodbucket wrote:
Change the YouTube vod link from TotalHalibut to TotalBiscuit, the latter is where is StarCraft stuff is whereas the former is his general gaming stuff.
whoops, thanks
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Brazil8 Posts
only subscribers can watch the vods on twitch?
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Brazil8 Posts
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Grats Huk. Will always be a fan due to HSCIII. Happy to see you stomping the NAs. I hope you are determined to succeed in 2014 as I think you are capable of great things... again.
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HuK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Atta boy keep doing your thing! Go Canada HuK and Scarlett FTW!
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GRATS HUK
next time we need you on full gangsta mode tho!
I'm glad Scarlett was beaten that way
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On December 09 2013 10:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 09:56 Clbull wrote:On December 09 2013 09:36 Outsited wrote:On December 09 2013 09:32 Thrill wrote:
Why is 2-1 enough for masa and huk and not hitman and kane? both forfeited their matches MajOr forfeited his match because of lag issues (he was at a LAN at the time.) DeMusliM forfeited his match due to illness ( reddit attributed this to him getting drunk during karaoke the previous night and having a bad hangover.) so pro
doing his best to replace Stephano as the "Party Pro"
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To be honest, this was totally worth watching just for the fruitland games
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Congrats to huk on the win.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Was it YOLOSWAG24/7?
Were there any really good games?
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Canada13389 Posts
Just keep in mind there is processing time so it will be up when youtube decides to process them fully 
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So happy. Keep up the consistent results of late please Huk ~~~` fightign.
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I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something.
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On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something.
You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win.
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On December 09 2013 13:25 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something. You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win.
But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance.
Do you think we will hear anything about Hitman in 3-4 months? no. Will scarlett continue to place top 8 and consistently beat top Koreans? yes
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He's such a fruitland troll. This entire tournament was worth it for the fruitland games with such comments (particularly remembering vs Demuslim w/ IdrA co-casting)
gotta 3rax to gain control of the lemons
he'll do something crazy to gain control over the lemons
... for lemon control
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United States23455 Posts
On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 13:25 GGzerG wrote:On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something. You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win. But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance. Do you think we will hear anything about Hitman in 3-4 months? no. Will scarlett continue to place top 8 and consistently beat top Koreans? yes
Hey man, while you're looking in your crystal ball can you tell me if I'm going to get married anytime soon, and if so is my future wife hot?
First off, you can't see the future. Second, stop making excuses for Scarlett. She didn't make excuses so why should you? If you watch the games, she lost due to lack of scouting and proper care.
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On December 09 2013 13:31 Danglars wrote:He's such a fruitland troll. This entire tournament was worth it for the fruitland games with such comments (particularly remembering vs Demuslim w/ IdrA co-casting) Show nested quote +
gotta 3rax to gain control of the lemons
he'll do something crazy to gain control over the lemons
... for lemon control
Sour jokes all around...
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On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 13:25 GGzerG wrote:On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something. You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win. But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance. Do you think we will hear anything about Hitman in 3-4 months? no. Will scarlett continue to place top 8 and consistently beat top Koreans? yes
According to everyone on the NA GM Ladder, Hitman will regularly take games off of anyone. And he was constantly in Top 8 in the lead-up to Shoutcraft for a reason.
Yes he's a massively cheeseball Protoss player, but at least he's embraced it and made it work for him. And he's exactly the kind of player that will have a dark horse victory in matches purely because someone thinks he's "far inferior".
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The good old "but he's inferior in skill!" thing seems to be used by people who forget this is a strategy game and not just a test of reflexes and mechanics. Yes you can trick people to win. Your average player can only pull that shit once. For Hitman to successfully pull it 3 times against a high calibre player is impressive. This game would be pretty shitty if the element of strategy was removed.
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On December 09 2013 14:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!" thing seems to be used by people who forget this is a strategy game and not just a test of reflexes and mechanics. Yes you can trick people to win. Your average player can only pull that shit once. For Hitman to successfully pull it 3 times against a high calibre player is impressive. This game would be pretty shitty if the element of strategy was removed.
Indeed, when Boxer does it to Yellow in the OSL, or sOs does it to Jaedong in the WCS finals it becomes legendary. When a lesser known pro does it to Scarlett though? Suddenly everybody is pissed. I mean, I'm a Scarlett fan too but I have to respect people doing what they can to pull out a win. To me that just proves underdog determination and I think that's awesome. Like, when Starbuck stacked his drones vs Genius to win that qualifier for WCS Challenger league? That was AMAZING and also SUPER cheesy.
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On December 09 2013 14:19 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 14:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!" thing seems to be used by people who forget this is a strategy game and not just a test of reflexes and mechanics. Yes you can trick people to win. Your average player can only pull that shit once. For Hitman to successfully pull it 3 times against a high calibre player is impressive. This game would be pretty shitty if the element of strategy was removed. Indeed, when Boxer does it to Yellow in the OSL, or sOs does it to Jaedong in the WCS finals it becomes legendary. When a lesser known pro does it to Scarlett though? Suddenly everybody is pissed. I mean, I'm a Scarlett fan too but I have to respect people doing what they can to pull out a win. To me that just proves underdog determination and I think that's awesome. Like, when Starbuck stacked his drones vs Genius to win that qualifier for WCS Challenger league? That was AMAZING and also SUPER cheesy.
Didnt Boxer get a lot of shit from Korean fans for cheesing Yellow?
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Congratz HuK! And thanks again TB for putting together another event!
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On December 09 2013 15:02 ReachTheSky wrote:
Congratz HuK! And thanks again TB for putting together another event!
What this man said, TB <3 HuK <3
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Hitman best player in USA?
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I gotta stop being surprised at Huk's results :D
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On December 09 2013 15:13 ThunderGod wrote:
Hitman best player in USA?
might compete with hellokitty
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On December 09 2013 13:25 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something. You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win.
No its not. You (an all the guys after you who commented on this) obviously didnt read well enough. Scarlett WAS the favourie to win. So Huk should thank Hitman for taking out Scarlett and so beating the strongest player in the tournament.
The post didnt take away ANYTHING from Hitmans win over Scarlet. It just says that all the oher players should thank Hitman for snipinh the favourite.
Sometimes i wonder if people want others to flame so they can flame back. And if noone does they just imply someone does^_^
Anyways gg Huk. Ita nice to see travelling takes its toll so that upsets can happen. This makes local turnaments worth it.
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On December 09 2013 14:19 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 14:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!" thing seems to be used by people who forget this is a strategy game and not just a test of reflexes and mechanics. Yes you can trick people to win. Your average player can only pull that shit once. For Hitman to successfully pull it 3 times against a high calibre player is impressive. This game would be pretty shitty if the element of strategy was removed. Indeed, when Boxer does it to Yellow in the OSL, or sOs does it to Jaedong in the WCS finals it becomes legendary. When a lesser known pro does it to Scarlett though? Suddenly everybody is pissed. I mean, I'm a Scarlett fan too but I have to respect people doing what they can to pull out a win. To me that just proves underdog determination and I think that's awesome. Like, when Starbuck stacked his drones vs Genius to win that qualifier for WCS Challenger league? That was AMAZING and also SUPER cheesy.
Wait, are we talking to the series where Boxer bunker rushed Yellow and repeated the same strategy over and over again every game and subsequently it was nerfed?
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On December 09 2013 09:35 superpanda27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 09:29 jackslater wrote:
Lol why Scarlett lose to Hitman? This such a joke/// Because Hitman held off two early pools from Scarlett and had several 2 base timings that Scarlett could not hold off. The last game Scarlett did not scout the 8 gate all-in and was being somewhat greedy.
yeah it's quite funny that hitman is called the cheeser here, while he went two times 15 nexus while scarlet went 10 and 9 pool.. but clearly hitman is the cheeser o_0
Scarlet los because she just playued badly and wasn't herself. She didn't scout ONCE... she had bad overlord placement and never knew what hitman was doing...
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On December 09 2013 14:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!" thing seems to be used by people who forget this is a strategy game and not just a test of reflexes and mechanics. Yes you can trick people to win. Your average player can only pull that shit once. For Hitman to successfully pull it 3 times against a high calibre player is impressive. This game would be pretty shitty if the element of strategy was removed.
this +1
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The good old "but he's inferior in skill!
Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can.
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well i watched some matches (masa vs kane and huk vs hitman) and the level of performance shocked me.
can't believe these guys play starcraft for a living.
masa never splited his marines vs kanes banelings, wasnt able to build missle turrets vs a dozen mutas and hitman tried to stalker all in vs 3 immortals despite his blink-micro is piss-poor.
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I watched most of the tournament, except while I was watching scarlett jaedong that overlapped!
Have to say the demuslin/HUK on fruitland was the funniest thing I've watched in a while!
The TB and Idra combo was excellent! very very humorous and down to earth! very different from the usually hyped casters we get! I really enjoyed!
Thanks to TB and all the sponsors to put this together
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"In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king".
"Congrats" to HuK
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On December 09 2013 16:32 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 14:19 TheDougler wrote:On December 09 2013 14:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!" thing seems to be used by people who forget this is a strategy game and not just a test of reflexes and mechanics. Yes you can trick people to win. Your average player can only pull that shit once. For Hitman to successfully pull it 3 times against a high calibre player is impressive. This game would be pretty shitty if the element of strategy was removed. Indeed, when Boxer does it to Yellow in the OSL, or sOs does it to Jaedong in the WCS finals it becomes legendary. When a lesser known pro does it to Scarlett though? Suddenly everybody is pissed. I mean, I'm a Scarlett fan too but I have to respect people doing what they can to pull out a win. To me that just proves underdog determination and I think that's awesome. Like, when Starbuck stacked his drones vs Genius to win that qualifier for WCS Challenger league? That was AMAZING and also SUPER cheesy. Wait, are we talking to the series where Boxer bunker rushed Yellow and repeated the same strategy over and over again every game and subsequently it was nerfed?
Nothing ever got nerfed in BroodWar past the initial balance patches (4 of them, 1.08 being the last, released in early 2001). Any balance issues were solved by players coming up with new strategies (which sometimes took months or even years, like in PvZ) and through maps. Despite all this, balance whiners were scarce (compared to today) and mostly looked down upon. Beautiful times.
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Yeah, Protoss wins now everything good patch ...
PatchToss, PatchToss, watch out Protosscraft 2, waiitt... i bought Starcraft 2 ... could i please have 2/3 of the price back ... thx ;(
Hitmen, who??? Huk, ok i know him ... but really? when did he was sucessfull last time??
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can.
Professional help, yes.
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On December 09 2013 21:27 VeTerrAn1 wrote:Yeah, Protoss wins now everything good patch ... PatchToss, PatchToss, watch out Protosscraft 2, waiitt... i bought Starcraft 2 ... could i please have 2/3 of the price back ... thx ;( Hitmen, who??? Huk, ok i know him ... but really? when did he was sucessfull last time??
What the hell? You say that after an Asus ROG that was completely dominated by Zergs.
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On December 09 2013 21:27 VeTerrAn1 wrote:Yeah, Protoss wins now everything good patch ... PatchToss, PatchToss, watch out Protosscraft 2, waiitt... i bought Starcraft 2 ... could i please have 2/3 of the price back ... thx ;( Hitmen, who??? Huk, ok i know him ... but really? when did he was sucessfull last time??
In this tournament.
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On December 09 2013 21:27 VeTerrAn1 wrote:Yeah, Protoss wins now everything good patch ... PatchToss, PatchToss, watch out Protosscraft 2, waiitt... i bought Starcraft 2 ... could i please have 2/3 of the price back ... thx ;( Hitmen, who??? Huk, ok i know him ... but really? when did he was sucessfull last time??
It was his third tournament win this year...
Sure, no big-name tournaments, but which foreigner wins realy big tournaments?
I rememeber 2? or 3?
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Great thing is that the players most likely have received their winnings already, or will this week. I wasn't able to watch the tournament, but good job TB & Genna (and everyone who worked on the tournament!) and congrats HuK.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 09 2013 21:37 grindC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 21:27 VeTerrAn1 wrote:Yeah, Protoss wins now everything good patch ... PatchToss, PatchToss, watch out Protosscraft 2, waiitt... i bought Starcraft 2 ... could i please have 2/3 of the price back ... thx ;( Hitmen, who??? Huk, ok i know him ... but really? when did he was sucessfull last time?? What the hell? You say that after an Asus ROG that was completely dominated by Zergs.
Asus ROG is a pretty bad example tbh. I think Jaedong, Scarlett and Life are a bit better than San, Elfi and Stardust. And Scarlett had the run of her life.
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Excellent casting from TB and idra! Good work on the tournament. I do enjoy these smaller tournaments.
If demuslim really was "sick" due to hangover I do hope he gets a good spanking from the EG team manager. Not the way to behave. Also quite weak to drop out due to lag, that should not come as a surprise to anyone playing regularly between servers.
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On December 09 2013 16:32 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 14:19 TheDougler wrote:On December 09 2013 14:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!" thing seems to be used by people who forget this is a strategy game and not just a test of reflexes and mechanics. Yes you can trick people to win. Your average player can only pull that shit once. For Hitman to successfully pull it 3 times against a high calibre player is impressive. This game would be pretty shitty if the element of strategy was removed. Indeed, when Boxer does it to Yellow in the OSL, or sOs does it to Jaedong in the WCS finals it becomes legendary. When a lesser known pro does it to Scarlett though? Suddenly everybody is pissed. I mean, I'm a Scarlett fan too but I have to respect people doing what they can to pull out a win. To me that just proves underdog determination and I think that's awesome. Like, when Starbuck stacked his drones vs Genius to win that qualifier for WCS Challenger league? That was AMAZING and also SUPER cheesy. Wait, are we talking to the series where Boxer bunker rushed Yellow and repeated the same strategy over and over again every game and subsequently it was nerfed?
It wasn't nerfed, gtfo man.
You don't know what you're talking about.
That finals was played three years after the final balance patch had been released, but even if it hadn't been the final patch, that particular strategy wouldn't have gotten nerfed in the future. There would just have been a dropship buff and a few other non bunker rush related tweaks.
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On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can.
I agree somewhat, but i've to say that hitmans style really IS coin-flipping. Some of his builds are really luck based.. and i feel that is something very playable for protoss in particular and the reason why they are hated so much.
When watching Hitman play his risk's didn't seem smart to me, they where just based on pure luck and payed off (sometimes). he could've also rolled dice before each match, to see which build he uses (and maybe he did, to not be calculatable ) and it would've worked out equaly well.
*shrug* I don't think his style is very interesting to watch and sometimes he gets stupidly crushed because of this. (HuK vs Hitman games).
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On December 09 2013 22:49 Rasias wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!
Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can. I agree somewhat, but i've to say that hitmans style really IS coin-flipping. Some of his builds are really luck based.. and i feel that is something very playable for protoss in particular and the reason why they are hated so much. When watching Hitman play his risk's didn't seem smart to me, they where just based on pure luck and payed off (sometimes). he could've also rolled dice before each match, to see which build he uses (and maybe he did, to not be calculatable ) and it would've worked out equaly well. *shrug* I don't think his style is very interesting to watch and sometimes he gets stupidly crushed because of this. (HuK vs Hitman games).
I think both of you are right. Hitman is a smart guy who abuses the strength of protoss perfectly.
But to beat scarlett he needs a bit of luck though.
Please consider, that scarlett played A LOT these days. She might have been just tired...
Grats HuK and <3 Scarlett
Great casting from IdrA!!!!!
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On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can.
According to this, Soulkey is a bad player because he really lost lots and lots and lots of games to Innovation. You're oversimplifying it.
Let me try (I can fail too, ofc):
Skill = Mechanics + Level of Game Understanding + Knowledge of BOs + Tactical Understanding + Strategic Decisionmaking + Micromanagement + Map Awareness + Physical Ability of Finger Coordination + Preparation Ability
Maybe this. Maybe something else. But skill is NOT solely measured by wins.
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On December 09 2013 23:28 Bjarne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 22:49 Rasias wrote:On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!
Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can. I agree somewhat, but i've to say that hitmans style really IS coin-flipping. Some of his builds are really luck based.. and i feel that is something very playable for protoss in particular and the reason why they are hated so much. When watching Hitman play his risk's didn't seem smart to me, they where just based on pure luck and payed off (sometimes). he could've also rolled dice before each match, to see which build he uses (and maybe he did, to not be calculatable ) and it would've worked out equaly well. *shrug* I don't think his style is very interesting to watch and sometimes he gets stupidly crushed because of this. (HuK vs Hitman games). Hitman is a smart guy who abuses the strength of protoss perfectly.
Hitman = new Naniwa
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On December 09 2013 23:41 boxerfred wrote:
Maybe this. Maybe something else. But skill is NOT solely measured by wins.
It is, but not all wins are created equal.
If player A constantly loses to player B, it doesn't mean player A is bad, especially if player B is an incredibly strong player.
If, on the other hand, player A loses more than he wins against the general pro player "pool", then he is below average.
To measure a player's skill, you need to aggregate their wins and losses across their recent career, and measure each win or loss according to the players they were facing.
Basically, the most faithful measurement tool for player skill is something like Aligulac.
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On December 09 2013 23:41 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!
Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can. According to this, Soulkey is a bad player because he really lost lots and lots and lots of games to Innovation. You're oversimplifying it. Let me try (I can fail too, ofc): Skill = Mechanics + Level of Game Understanding + Knowledge of BOs + Tactical Understanding + Strategic Decisionmaking + Micromanagement + Map Awareness + Physical Ability of Finger Coordination + Preparation Ability Maybe this. Maybe something else. But skill is NOT solely measured by wins. WTF is this? If Soulkey loses more games than Innovation to the same level of skill of people, of course Soulkey is a worse player than Innovation. If Soulkey loses to Innovation more than Innovation to Soulkey, then in a Soulkey v Innovation matchup, Innovation is more skilled in that specific player matchup. Skill is solely measured by your wins, who you win against. All the other stuff are just stuff that helps you win games.
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On December 10 2013 00:17 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 23:41 boxerfred wrote:On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!
Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can. According to this, Soulkey is a bad player because he really lost lots and lots and lots of games to Innovation. You're oversimplifying it. Let me try (I can fail too, ofc): Skill = Mechanics + Level of Game Understanding + Knowledge of BOs + Tactical Understanding + Strategic Decisionmaking + Micromanagement + Map Awareness + Physical Ability of Finger Coordination + Preparation Ability Maybe this. Maybe something else. But skill is NOT solely measured by wins. WTF is this? If Soulkey loses more games than Innovation to the same level of skill of people, of course Soulkey is a worse player than Innovation. If Soulkey loses to Innovation more than Innovation to Soulkey, then in a Soulkey v Innovation matchup, Innovation is more skilled in that specific player matchup. Skill is solely measured by your wins, who you win against. All the other stuff are just stuff that helps you win games.
"More skilled" yep. But there is absolutely NO information given on the total "amount" of skill, if you only count wins. Skill is NOT measured by wins, skill might be COMPARED or MADE COMPARABLE by wins.
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On December 10 2013 00:17 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 23:41 boxerfred wrote:On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!
Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can. According to this, Soulkey is a bad player because he really lost lots and lots and lots of games to Innovation. You're oversimplifying it. Let me try (I can fail too, ofc): Skill = Mechanics + Level of Game Understanding + Knowledge of BOs + Tactical Understanding + Strategic Decisionmaking + Micromanagement + Map Awareness + Physical Ability of Finger Coordination + Preparation Ability Maybe this. Maybe something else. But skill is NOT solely measured by wins. WTF is this? If Soulkey loses more games than Innovation to the same level of skill of people, of course Soulkey is a worse player than Innovation. If Soulkey loses to Innovation more than Innovation to Soulkey, then in a Soulkey v Innovation matchup, Innovation is more skilled in that specific player matchup. Skill is solely measured by your wins, who you win against. All the other stuff are just stuff that helps you win games.
Exactly!
Skill definetly IS measured by wins. Wins and the strenght of the opponent. What else??
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On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 13:25 GGzerG wrote:On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something. You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win. But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance. Do you think we will hear anything about Hitman in 3-4 months? no. Will scarlett continue to place top 8 and consistently beat top Koreans? yes
Some people said the same about Thorzain during his TSL3 run. Until yesterday he was the 5th highest earning foreigner (he's now 6th after been overtaken by Huk). You have no idea how someone is going to turn out.
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Grats, can't wait for the postmortem
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On December 10 2013 01:30 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 09 2013 13:25 GGzerG wrote:On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something. You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win. But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance. Do you think we will hear anything about Hitman in 3-4 months? no. Will scarlett continue to place top 8 and consistently beat top Koreans? yes Some people said the same about Thorzain during his TSL3 run. Until yesterday he was the 5th highest earning foreigner (he's now 6th after been overtaken by Huk). You have no idea how someone is going to turn out.
I'm more baffled by people thinking a good player can't sometimes lose a series against a cheesy player. It happens, it's not impossible and many top players have lost series against clearly inferior players. We don't have to bend over backwards to explain this (it's happened to the foreign God stephano on several occasions).
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On December 09 2013 19:12 yatescutler wrote:
well i watched some matches (masa vs kane and huk vs hitman) and the level of performance shocked me.
can't believe these guys play starcraft for a living.
masa never splited his marines vs kanes banelings, wasnt able to build missle turrets vs a dozen mutas and hitman tried to stalker all in vs 3 immortals despite his blink-micro is piss-poor.
Wow you must be Code S man grats
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On December 10 2013 00:21 Bjarne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 00:17 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On December 09 2013 23:41 boxerfred wrote:On December 09 2013 18:46 Sejanus wrote:
The good old "but he's inferior in skill!
Skill is measured by wins, but some people have a different idea. They measure a small subset of skill known as "mechanics" and insist player who clicks on things faster should win. As if StarCraft2 was some sort of clicking competition. Those narrow minded, delusional people keep playing/watching a game existing only in their imagination. I believe they need some sort of professional help, to help them realize that the game they imagine does not exist and never did. The goal in StarCraft 2 is to win, not to click on things as fast as you can. According to this, Soulkey is a bad player because he really lost lots and lots and lots of games to Innovation. You're oversimplifying it. Let me try (I can fail too, ofc): Skill = Mechanics + Level of Game Understanding + Knowledge of BOs + Tactical Understanding + Strategic Decisionmaking + Micromanagement + Map Awareness + Physical Ability of Finger Coordination + Preparation Ability Maybe this. Maybe something else. But skill is NOT solely measured by wins. WTF is this? If Soulkey loses more games than Innovation to the same level of skill of people, of course Soulkey is a worse player than Innovation. If Soulkey loses to Innovation more than Innovation to Soulkey, then in a Soulkey v Innovation matchup, Innovation is more skilled in that specific player matchup. Skill is solely measured by your wins, who you win against. All the other stuff are just stuff that helps you win games. Exactly! Skill definetly IS measured by wins. Wins and the strenght of the opponent. What else?? I'd say skill isn't measured by wins, but that skill is estimated by a combination of gameplay and wins. Because wins alone dont cut it and the relation between gameplay and skill isn't as clear cut, we get these strange discussions without definitive answer.
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On December 10 2013 05:48 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 01:30 Greendotz wrote:On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:On December 09 2013 13:25 GGzerG wrote:On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something. You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win. But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance. Do you think we will hear anything about Hitman in 3-4 months? no. Will scarlett continue to place top 8 and consistently beat top Koreans? yes Some people said the same about Thorzain during his TSL3 run. Until yesterday he was the 5th highest earning foreigner (he's now 6th after been overtaken by Huk). You have no idea how someone is going to turn out. I'm more baffled by people thinking a good player can't sometimes lose a series against a cheesy player. It happens, it's not impossible and many top players have lost series against clearly inferior players. We don't have to bend over backwards to explain this (it's happened to the foreign God stephano on several occasions).
Frozean beat Jaedong in BW, he must be a Bonjwa. Odd losses in a game as volatile and deterministic as SC2 really don't mean much. Consistency is what matters, if you want to know anything about a player, look at performance vs top tier opponents over a longer period of time.
Hitman did exactly what he was supposed to vs a stronger opponent and played high risk/high reward, Scarlett played well below par, probably from being exhausted by the clusterfuck that was ASUS ROG. That's it, it literally means zero beyond that. There is not a single high level pro gamer who doesn't have a couple of stupid losses to players they would normally beat.
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On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:
But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance.
What?
The better player at the moment of the match, always wins, by definition of the word better.
Hitman was better than Scarlett when it counted, which is when they played. There is nothing else to it. Whether or not you think Hitman should have lost, didn't have a chance or how you feel about Scarlett ect... doesn't matter at all. There was saying I heard at the drag strip I used to frequent... we don't race dyno sheets, we race cars. It doesn't matter what a car puts down on paper or how it should do. What matters is how it does do.
Hitman showed up and beat Scarlett. He was the better player.
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So TB graciously hosted an event to build the NA scene and there were 2 forfeits in the top 8 and more in the earlier rounds? Am I misinformed? That's terrible respect to the only tournament that gives a damn about the NA scene.
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On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 13:25 GGzerG wrote:On December 09 2013 13:20 ElMeanYo wrote:
I have to say Huk really owes Hitman for this series in taking out Scarlett. Everyone expected Scarlett to win this tournament and if she hadn't died to Hitman's cheeze she would have handled Huk easily.
Huk you owe Hitman a big one and I hope you at least buy him a beer or something. You know, this is one of those replys like the " Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda, BUT YOU DIDN'T. " , get over it. Hitman obviously outsmarted scarlett so he deserved the win. But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance. Do you think we will hear anything about Hitman in 3-4 months? no. Will scarlett continue to place top 8 and consistently beat top Koreans? yes
If Scarlett were skilled enough, she would have deflected his hyperaggressive cheese style.
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On December 10 2013 06:52 crms wrote:
So TB graciously hosted an event to build the NA scene and there were 2 forfeits in the top 8 and more in the earlier rounds? Am I misinformed? That's terrible respect to the only tournament that gives a damn about the NA scene.
I agree in respect to Demuslim. I mean he should consider himself lucky that the rules let him compete because he's not exactly a North American himself.
MajOr? Maybe it's disrespectful. Lag is a massive bitch though but you didn't see Koreans forfeiting from TSL3 when they weren't used to the latency difference between KR and NA/EU. I would assume for Juan's case it was legitimately bad enough that the series was not worth playing at all.
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On December 10 2013 07:29 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:52 crms wrote:
So TB graciously hosted an event to build the NA scene and there were 2 forfeits in the top 8 and more in the earlier rounds? Am I misinformed? That's terrible respect to the only tournament that gives a damn about the NA scene. I agree in respect to Demuslim. I mean he should consider himself lucky that the rules let him compete because he's not exactly a North American himself. MajOr? Maybe it's disrespectful. Lag is a massive bitch though but you didn't see Koreans forfeiting from TSL3 when they weren't used to the latency difference between KR and NA/EU. I would assume for Juan's case it was legitimately bad enough that the series was not worth playing at all.
Did you catch the twitter drama with Babyknight? Major forfeited because his comp was getting < 50 fps -.-. Not saying that that's ideal, but Koreans play with way worse conditions (latency/bad hours) in most of these foreign qualifiers.
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i barely get 30 fps playing sc2 step it up major
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On December 10 2013 06:52 crms wrote:
So TB graciously hosted an event to build the NA scene and there were 2 forfeits in the top 8 and more in the earlier rounds? Am I misinformed? That's terrible respect to the only tournament that gives a damn about the NA scene.
There were no earlier rounds. It was a 8 round tournament.
And both forfeits were single games, not matches. Both players had already lost a Bo3 and conceded the 4th game.
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On December 10 2013 08:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:52 crms wrote:
So TB graciously hosted an event to build the NA scene and there were 2 forfeits in the top 8 and more in the earlier rounds? Am I misinformed? That's terrible respect to the only tournament that gives a damn about the NA scene. There were no earlier rounds. It was a 8 round tournament. And both forfeits were single games, not matches. Both players had already lost a Bo3 and conceded the 4th game.
Ok, that's a bit better but still a bit meh. Thanks for the correct info.
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On December 10 2013 07:29 Clbull wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:52 crms wrote:
So TB graciously hosted an event to build the NA scene and there were 2 forfeits in the top 8 and more in the earlier rounds? Am I misinformed? That's terrible respect to the only tournament that gives a damn about the NA scene. I agree in respect to Demuslim. I mean he should consider himself lucky that the rules let him compete because he's not exactly a North American himself. MajOr? Maybe it's disrespectful. Lag is a massive bitch though but you didn't see Koreans forfeiting from TSL3 when they weren't used to the latency difference between KR and NA/EU. I would assume for Juan's case it was legitimately bad enough that the series was not worth playing at all.
I will admit that I am a bit of a DeMuslim fanboy and probably wouldn’t go to the same lengths to defend any other player in the same situation; That been said could we possibly get passed the Reddit witch-hunt mentality and maybe start giving players the benefit of the doubt before throwing them under the bus when stuff like this happens? He quit because he was ill, straight away there were people were going inspector Cluzo posting twitter pictures of the night before claiming he’d been out and was obviously just hung over. Next there are threads where people drops lines like “I am a huge fan of DeMulsim, I watch his stream everyday” following up these comments with something like “… but I lost a lot of respect for him, he’s clearly just sponging EG’s money”. Is it completely out of the realms of possibility that he went out the night before (because you know, it’s cool to meet up with friends and his game didn’t start until 18:00 the next day) and happened to get food poisoning?
Funny how people always say hubs like TMZ are what’s wrong with modern media, yet even for something as niche as SC2 that doesn’t have that kind of exposure we feel the need to fill that gap ourselves.
I know that there’s a lot of good people in the scene too, and it’s usually these people we don’t hear about but still, it’s depressing to see these attitudes are still rife (seems like when Naniwa sneezes the whole community has a keyboard contortion).
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Umm, hitman was not as cheesy. Scarlett 10 pooled and 9 pooled, both games she lost. If anything, Scarlett was "cheesier". Regardless, Scarlett didn't properly scout in each of the games she lost. It almost seemed like the opponent underestimated hitman.
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YAY HuK~!~!~ happy for you!
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On December 10 2013 14:20 bxc wrote:
Umm, hitman was not as cheesy. Scarlett 10 pooled and 9 pooled, both games she lost. If anything, Scarlett was "cheesier". Regardless, Scarlett didn't properly scout in each of the games she lost. It almost seemed like the opponent underestimated hitman.
lol
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On December 10 2013 06:45 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:
But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance.
What? The better player at the moment of the match, always wins, by definition of the word better. Hitman was better than Scarlett when it counted, which is when they played. There is nothing else to it. Whether or not you think Hitman should have lost, didn't have a chance or how you feel about Scarlett ect... doesn't matter at all. There was saying I heard at the drag strip I used to frequent... we don't race dyno sheets, we race cars. It doesn't matter what a car puts down on paper or how it should do. What matters is how it does do. Hitman showed up and beat Scarlett. He was the better player.
Wait let me get this straight, so if blizzard buffs marines to hit for twenty damage per shot, and no P or Z ever wins a pro game again, you're gonna say that Terrans are the better players because they show up and beat everyone else?
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On December 11 2013 01:58 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:45 BronzeKnee wrote:On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:
But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance.
What? The better player at the moment of the match, always wins, by definition of the word better. Hitman was better than Scarlett when it counted, which is when they played. There is nothing else to it. Whether or not you think Hitman should have lost, didn't have a chance or how you feel about Scarlett ect... doesn't matter at all. There was saying I heard at the drag strip I used to frequent... we don't race dyno sheets, we race cars. It doesn't matter what a car puts down on paper or how it should do. What matters is how it does do. Hitman showed up and beat Scarlett. He was the better player. Wait let me get this straight, so if blizzard buffs marines to hit for twenty damage per shot, and no P or Z ever wins a pro game again, you're gonna say that Terrans are the better players because they show up and beat everyone else?
Pretty much this is the problem in sc2. Building correct units (in time) is just too strong and mostly pretty unlucky for the opponent, especially with this ingame-speed. Opponent can do nothing, even mit imba micro. The only one thing the opponent might/can to win if you dont do a timing-attack or try to delay his timing-attack with fake stuff. But even this you realize this "delay-try" and you can just ignore it to make a timing attack.
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On December 11 2013 01:58 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 06:45 BronzeKnee wrote:On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:
But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance.
What? The better player at the moment of the match, always wins, by definition of the word better. Hitman was better than Scarlett when it counted, which is when they played. There is nothing else to it. Whether or not you think Hitman should have lost, didn't have a chance or how you feel about Scarlett ect... doesn't matter at all. There was saying I heard at the drag strip I used to frequent... we don't race dyno sheets, we race cars. It doesn't matter what a car puts down on paper or how it should do. What matters is how it does do. Hitman showed up and beat Scarlett. He was the better player. Wait let me get this straight, so if blizzard buffs marines to hit for twenty damage per shot, and no P or Z ever wins a pro game again, you're gonna say that Terrans are the better players because they show up and beat everyone else?
"Breaking" the game by creating a completely imbalanced unit sort of "breaks" your argument as well...
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On December 11 2013 23:34 pNRG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 01:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 10 2013 06:45 BronzeKnee wrote:On December 09 2013 13:28 ElMeanYo wrote:
But he is FAR inferior in skill and everyone knows it. I don't know if Scarlett was tired or fed up or what, but Hitman should not have had a chance.
What? The better player at the moment of the match, always wins, by definition of the word better. Hitman was better than Scarlett when it counted, which is when they played. There is nothing else to it. Whether or not you think Hitman should have lost, didn't have a chance or how you feel about Scarlett ect... doesn't matter at all. There was saying I heard at the drag strip I used to frequent... we don't race dyno sheets, we race cars. It doesn't matter what a car puts down on paper or how it should do. What matters is how it does do. Hitman showed up and beat Scarlett. He was the better player. Wait let me get this straight, so if blizzard buffs marines to hit for twenty damage per shot, and no P or Z ever wins a pro game again, you're gonna say that Terrans are the better players because they show up and beat everyone else? "Breaking" the game by creating a completely imbalanced unit sort of "breaks" your argument as well...
I'm not the one whose argument rests on the ridiculous assumption that the game is and has always been perfectly balanced.
I guess when mvp destroyed tier 3 armies with snipe, he was the better player! Except then snipe immediately got nerfed for everyone. Hmm, interesting how that works!
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Really enjoyed the tournament, cool to see NA players duke it out. Thank you TotalBiscuit, and Idra for casting.
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your Country52797 Posts
I loved the tournament, also Hitman won because he exploited a weakness to allins from unknown players. Scarlett is probably better on average though.
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Gotta point out the utter domination by Canada. Too bad I didn't know this was going on, I missed it...
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On December 12 2013 03:28 The_Templar wrote:
I loved the tournament, also Hitman won because he exploited a weakness to allins from unknown players. Scarlett is probably better on average though.
Yeah probably. I mean if Hitman played the same opponents she has over a year, he might have had slightly worse results. Should be pretty close though.
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On December 12 2013 03:35 CutTheEnemy wrote:
Gotta point out the utter domination by Canada. Too bad I didn't know this was going on, I missed it...
Yeah same here. I hadn't heard anything about this, although it's good to see HuK win something again!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qYCURrH.png)
