EPTHotS Balance Update - November 11 - Page 84
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Dwayn
Germany949 Posts
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Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 17 2013 03:18 Dwayn wrote: oracle speed, armory/air upgrade and siege tank changes suck. Overall pretty bad patch. What would you have done? | ||
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Fowowski
Poland6 Posts
On November 16 2013 22:37 Freeborn wrote: It's actually a bit ridiculous that terran's are crying so much because TvZ absolutely needed to change, but aside from that this patch is a big terran buff, with only a small protoss and a decent zerg buff. I dont think this change was good. TvZ should be intensive and fast not turtle speed with tanks. Nerfing mines is just forcing more tanks. Tanks are slow and if you get cought not in siege mode then they die very fast to cheep speedlings. Try to micro unsieged tanks vs speedlings .... :/ I agree that one widow mine killing 12 banes is too much but as someone before stated - you can see them before they shoot. I think people who play Z or P disliked the widow mine because it was mainly forcing them to micro their units, not just a-move into T's army. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On November 17 2013 03:44 Salient wrote: I would make Oracles cheaper and give extra shields. They would have a normal attack instead of energy. In exchange, I would Nerf their DPS a lot. That would make them good harassment units instead of gimmicky mineral line raping surprise attack units that are really only good for cheese. Just IMO. Sounds like a slightly altered void ray that only shoots down? Don't see your vision of "good harassment unit". | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
On November 17 2013 04:00 mishimaBeef wrote: Sounds like a slightly altered void ray that only shoots down? Don't see your vision of "good harassment unit". Much faster, cheaper, no bonus vs. Armored, no air to air, less DPS, still has spells. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On November 17 2013 04:05 Salient wrote: Much faster, cheaper, no bonus vs. Armored, no air to air, less DPS, still has spells. How exactly do you get kills? | ||
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Dwayn
Germany949 Posts
Oracle deserved a slight buff at best, this buff was too huge. Extra speed and acceleration are fine but not so much. With the siege tank they should have reduced cost and/or build time, time it takes to enter siege mode and so on. Not attack speed. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
On November 15 2013 01:22 Pirfiktshon wrote: As much hate as I'm putting on this the reality is I'm EXTREMELY JEALOUS because protoss is built exactly how other races should be variety of openers good synchronization and transition with their entire tech tree. Zerg is close to this yet i feel like some of their units are just straight up wonkey. If the protoss race idea could be translated for the other 2 races entirely then i feel like we would have a GREAT game. Right now its just painful to play against protoss sometimes I feel like just leaving when its TvP because of the ridiculousness PvX are the only matchups outside of opening ZvZ that feel more like rock, paper scissors than StarCraft. So no. I think anything and everything should be done to move away from Protoss. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27196 Posts
Again back to the Oracle, why is it even able to attack. It's as if Phoenixes don't exist, one of the units that require the most finesse, attention and general multitasking to use well. In short, Protoss have another gimmicky option that suits proxying and dovetails with all-inning, because Protoss apparently needed another Stargate harassment unit, despite phoenixes existing? I don't know why they didn't mould the Oracle into a stargate support unit and fleshed out that tree in that sense. Revelation and detection fit that role, why not give it another ability instead of offensive power? | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
You can't plan on beating mech, as protoss, with just ground. I'm not saying it's impossible, but eventually you want to switch to air. I could see games becoming very, what's another word for gay... as protoss feels pressured to keep up with air upgrades, thus they just rush air tech as fast as possible and then it's skytoss vs skyterran. I feel that removing upgrades, etc, should be a last resort, if even acceptable then. If you have to start removing upgrades... you should replace your balance team. That's lazy and embarrassing, and I hope they feel ashamed. Really earned their salary. Should put me on the team, so if toss is ever struggling I can be the brilliant guy that comes up with which protoss upgrade they shouldn't have to research anymore. I hate seeing this direction. Not everyone is GM, and not everyone is GM at balancing games. Please hire some new people with real ideas. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On November 17 2013 05:24 playa wrote: It seems like if they want to buff one race, then they feel compelled to give the other races a buff, too, to appease them. I don't want "random" buffs, though. I'm also worried about terran having their widow mine nerfed and the "make up" buff. They have tried this same weapons/armor thing before, in beta, and it was deemed too strong/good. What has changed? I don't get it. You can't plan on beating mech, as protoss, with just ground. I'm not saying it's impossible, but eventually you want to switch to air. I could see games becoming very, what's another word for gay... as protoss feels pressured to keep up with air upgrades, thus they just rush air tech as fast as possible and then it's skytoss vs skyterran. I feel that removing upgrades, etc, should be a last resort, if even acceptable then. If you have to start removing upgrades... you should replace your balance team. That's lazy and embarrassing, and I hope they feel ashamed. Really earned their salary. Should put me on the team, so if toss is ever struggling I can be the brilliant guy that comes up with which protoss upgrade they shouldn't have to research anymore. I hate seeing this direction. Not everyone is GM, and not everyone is GM at balancing games. Please hire some new people with real ideas. Just proxy oracle the fuck out of Terrans, you'll see, you won't have time to see much meching, if that's what you're afraid of. | ||
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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Rhythmic
Russian Federation14 Posts
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On November 17 2013 05:29 ZenithM wrote: Just proxy oracle the fuck out of Terrans, you'll see, you won't have time to see much meching, if that's what you're afraid of. Protoss scared of mech? Love it. | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On November 17 2013 05:29 ZenithM wrote: Just proxy oracle the fuck out of Terrans, you'll see, you won't have time to see much meching, if that's what you're afraid of. Blink stalker msc all in is even better vs mech openers. Those 1-2 factory units, a cloak banshee or a raven you have when it hits will outright just die vs that opener. All high level terran play vs this build consists of getting stimmed bio with medivacs. Seriously, this is a major reason why mech is not seen so much in TvP. The possibility of a blink allin forces you to mass units and bunkers to hold. Bio units are lower tier and more easily massable and have way better synergy with bunkers. Blizzard needs to unfuck the mess that is TvP early game. It is extremely annoying to play for us casuals, and even more boring to watch the same TvP strategies in pro games for almost 4 years now. Blink allins were a major pain in the butt even in WoL. I had hopes that this issue would be addressed. I was a master terran playing mech in all matchups. They need to make blink take more time to research and msc to have longer build time at the very least. I would much rather see a huge warp tech nerf. It would be sooooo much better if protoss couldn't outproduce you on your own side of the map at 6 minutes into the game. Walking distance across the map is a solid RTS concept that shouldn't be messed around with. This would be a blanket solution to a lot of the issues with TvP and PvP early game. Warp tech is such a boring gimmick anyways. There is just no downside to it! And the cost is 50/50. Easily the best upgrade in the game. It has to be at least twilight council tech and cost 150/150. Cooldowns should be longer when used as warp gates to make them not universally good. As a compensation, gateway build times are reduced. There you have it. I just solved PvP and TvP early game. Sad thing is that this has been iterated over and over since WoL beta and nothing will ever be done about it. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On November 17 2013 05:31 JonIrenicus wrote: you mean, I wouldn't be able to make unlogic statements regarding balance? You mean to your boss or to the random know it alls? Or to your boss about the random know it alls? | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
I'm scared of having to play stupid games. I don't want to be forced to open proxy oracles or do all-ins. "Air games" in SC 2 are the worst, to play or to spectate. A step above games involving swarm hosts. It makes no sense, atm, though. Terran does nothing, yet while you're transitioning to air, while both only only have a few air units out atm, Terran already has 3-2 on their air units? I hate these stupid "solutions." If you play a natural game, air gets shut down by david kim. | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On November 17 2013 05:55 playa wrote: I'm scared of having to play stupid games. I don't want to be forced to open proxy oracles or do all-ins. "Air games" in SC 2 are the worst, to play or to spectate. A step above games involving swarm hosts. It makes no sense, atm, though. Terran does nothing, yet while you're transitioning to air, because you have to and both sides only have a few air units out atm, they already have 3-2 on their air weapons? I hate these stupid "solutions." Yeah. Terran air transitions is such a nuisance in TvP right now. You can chronoboost your upgrades and you have T2 units that don't such balls like terran mech units. No one is forcing you to open proxy oracles or do all ins. Opening macro is a perfectly viable option. This is another reason TvP is annoying. Protoss just dictates the early game. Protoss all ins - you better scout or guess the right all in and defend pretty much flawlessly, or lose. Protoss expands - you better expand as well in order to not end up behind as the chances for any 1 base all in or 1 base play into expand is gonna do anything useful are very slim. | ||
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vidium
Romania222 Posts
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