Naniwa offers Bounty to whoever beats Revival - Page 23

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ETisME

12891 Posts

October 29 2013 03:47 GMT

#441

Don't really like what he is doing but oh well, naniwa never do things standard anyway

iyasq8

113 Posts

October 29 2013 03:50 GMT

#442

there should be more of this! this is awesome!

mvdunecats

United States102 Posts

October 29 2013 03:56 GMT

#443

This certainly isn't bribery. For it to be bribery, Naniwa would have to be asking people to do something wrong. Instead, he's asking players to do what they are already supposed to be doing: playing their best to beat their opponent.

bypLy

757 Posts

October 29 2013 04:02 GMT

#444

revival could offer his opponents to lose for 600$

PanN

United States2828 Posts

October 29 2013 04:03 GMT

#445

On October 29 2013 13:02 bypLy wrote:
revival could offer his opponents to lose for 600$

Except that would be matchfixing and a douchebag thing to do.

KrazyTrumpet

United States2520 Posts

October 29 2013 04:04 GMT

#446

On October 29 2013 13:03 PanN wrote:

Show nested quote +

Except that would be matchfixing and a douchebag thing to do.

Yeah, motivating someone to prepare their best is way different than paying someone to throw a game rofl

liberate71

Australia10252 Posts

October 29 2013 04:05 GMT

#447

this is pretty funny

docvoc

United States5491 Posts

October 29 2013 04:05 GMT

#448

This reminds me of that Idra grudgematch from forever back that never happened.

Dexington

Canada7276 Posts

October 29 2013 04:08 GMT

#449

On October 29 2013 13:04 KrazyTrumpet wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah, motivating someone to prepare their best is way different than paying someone to throw a game rofl

It is, surely you can't be serious. A person can intentionally lose a game way easier than they can win it.

Thieving Magpie

United States6752 Posts

October 29 2013 04:09 GMT

#450

23 pages says we need a Nanirival show match for $500, make those esports dollars rain EG

lololol

FabledIntegral

United States9232 Posts

October 29 2013 04:10 GMT

#451

On October 29 2013 13:09 Thieving Magpie wrote:
23 pages says we need a Nanirival show match for $500, make those esports dollars rain EG

lololol

Well not really, we could just wait til Blizzcon lol if Revival advances.

ReignSupreme.

Australia4123 Posts

October 29 2013 04:11 GMT

#452

How are people taking this seriously haha! What fantasy world do you guys live in

Martijn

Netherlands1219 Posts

October 29 2013 04:13 GMT

#453

On October 29 2013 12:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 29 2013 12:20 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 12:11 Plansix wrote:

On October 29 2013 12:00 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote:

On October 29 2013 10:52 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 10:50 iLevitate wrote:
Revival's response : @EGRevival: @NaNiwaSC2 Oh... 500$? really too small

you need more reward um...maybe 5000$? or 10000$?

Oh shit, that counter!

Johan Lucchesi ‏@NaNiwaSC2 17s
@EGRevival :D so greedy.........

It's a good thing Revival has a good sense of humor about all this, because this is definitely a gray area at best..

Yeah bro encouraging people to beat Revival has a negative consequence because it gives them an advantage over Revival. Clearly they will try harder than they otherwise would have.

/sarcasm

That's the worst argument yet. If it wouldn't make a difference, why would he offer the $500 to begin with?

This is a gray area because the next step is someone in a similar situation like Revivals groupmates going and asking money from someone in Naniwas position. What if Select said, "make it 600", Nani says no and Select ends up losing? It's a very slippery slope and there should definitely be clear rules governing this kind of thing. What if in one of the other groups there's a similar situation, or next season? What if those players want money to have a "reason to try your best" as Nani puts it too? This is setting some kind of precedent that you should pay people to actually have them to their best.

Bottom line, whenever you're offering bounties our 3rd party players start throwing money at groups to get results they want, you're in a gray area. We have to very carefully look at what IS and ISN'T ok.

We already do that, its called prize money. I also don't work very hard unless I am paid. I know its weird, but professional sports pay money of some sorts. That's why they are called professional sports, because they are paid to play them.

Also, in what world would Select throw a game because Nani refused to give him $600 and only offered $500? That's giving up the change of free money for no reason, which is beyond unrealistic.

That's the thing, this is nothing like prize money. Prize money gives all players an equal incentive to do well. This bounty gives players an incentive to target Revival specifically.

As for the second point. In the same world where a player would rather have $600 than $500 and if that player thinks he can force the third party to cough that up, why not? Apparently we're ok with that right?

We have to be very careful.

Wow you guys are crazy. What fantasy mafia world do you believe in where this happens. Oh, a player tries to extort Naniwa? Then they get exposed, burned publicly and can never play in a tournament ever again. When would this ever happen?

Yeah clearly this kind of thing is unheard of. Look, I certainly hope we don't see anything like this happening, but that's exactly why we have to be careful. In Korea there's actual legal repercussions. There's rules, regulations, laws even. We certainly don't have any such rules in the foreign scene. Yeah if you get caught with shady business like this, it'll be very hard to carry on as a progamer, but it's unlikely to have any further consequences. Someone with not enough moral fiber could consider it their chance at a final score. It's irrelevant whether any of those scenarios are likely to happen, they're only there to show that this is a gray area. Incentivizing players to specifically target other players is only a few steps from money influencing the competition.

Some people are arguing that it's ok to offer money to target players, but I imagine it being a negotiation makes it more dubious. The whole thing is a slippery slope, a gray area and we have to be careful where we draw the line.

On October 29 2013 12:25 WolfintheSheep wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 29 2013 12:20 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 12:11 Plansix wrote:

On October 29 2013 12:00 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote:

On October 29 2013 10:52 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 10:50 iLevitate wrote:
Revival's response : @EGRevival: @NaNiwaSC2 Oh... 500$? really too small

you need more reward um...maybe 5000$? or 10000$?

Yeah bro encouraging people to beat Revival has a negative consequence because it gives them an advantage over Revival. Clearly they will try harder than they otherwise would have.

/sarcasm

Really? So you can imagine a world where Select, who is already the underdog against Revival, thinks he can negotiate extra incentive for a match he's not expected to win, and threaten to throw a game if he's not offered an extra $100?

What's his threat supposed to be? "You put up $500 so I try my best. Too bad, I want $600, so I'm gonna half-ass my match until I get it."

You realize you're only arguing the specifics of the situation and not the practice in general which is what is so foul right? In this completely hypothetical scenario a player A in the group with player B could tell the third party player C "nah, $500 isn't worth it to focus on player B, I'd rather prepare more for my other match to have better odds at 2nd place". Player C could then ask "well what would your price be?"

On October 29 2013 12:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 29 2013 12:22 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 12:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:

On October 29 2013 12:11 Plansix wrote:

On October 29 2013 12:00 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote:

On October 29 2013 10:52 Martijn wrote:

On October 29 2013 10:50 iLevitate wrote:
Revival's response : @EGRevival: @NaNiwaSC2 Oh... 500$? really too small

you need more reward um...maybe 5000$? or 10000$?

Yeah bro encouraging people to beat Revival has a negative consequence because it gives them an advantage over Revival. Clearly they will try harder than they otherwise would have.

/sarcasm

Pretty sure Martijn is just trolling, especially with the "If it wouldn't make a difference, why would he offer the $500 to begin with?" Obviously a joke...

Assuming this offer is real. Do you think Nani is offering $500 to hype up WCS or because he wants people to put more effort into taking out Revival?

First of all, the offer doesn't have to be real. It could be a joke. Naniwa's joked about things in the past.

Second, who cares if he's serious? *Even if* Revival's opponents weren't planning on taking their games against Revival seriously (unjustified assumption) and *even if* they now try *extra hard* to win (again, unjustified), so what? All that means is that we see the best games possible, with more players who all have an incentive to win (Revival to move on to face Naniwa, and Revival's opponents to win a few hundred dollars from Naniwa). Boo hoo, someone made a bet.

Yeah, I have no idea if the offer is real or if Nani is just stirring things up to put people on point. In soccer, players have been charged and suspended for betting on their own team to win. They have strict regulations against it to protect the fairness of the competition.

Don't get me wrong, there's arguments to be made for this specific case being ok. Most prominently for me is that Revival doesn't seem to have a problem with it. If he did, I think this could've gotten quite ugly. However saying it doesn't make a difference is just factually unfounded. Of course putting a price on a players head could affect how his opponents play against him. Your argument was that players wouldn't try harder with money on the line, which unfortunately is naive.

TimKim0713

Korea (South)221 Posts

October 29 2013 04:14 GMT

#454

I'm not sure how to feel right now because I am the number one fan of revival.

TimKim0713

Korea (South)221 Posts

October 29 2013 04:19 GMT

#455

Also, tbh, it actually wouldn't be "well mannered" if they actually try full hard mode if they have no purpose.
Wouldn't you want to see a friend do well? Isn't that better than gaining nothing for both of you?

DarkPlasmaBall

United States46536 Posts

October 29 2013 04:20 GMT

#456

On October 29 2013 13:14 TimKim0713 wrote:
I'm not sure how to feel right now because I am the number one fan of revival.

Pay Naniwa a thousand dollars to rescind his offer.

That way the #1 Naniwa fan can offer you two thousand dollars to rescind your offer to Naniwa to rescind his offer. And so you make two thousand dollars for free.

#logic