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On October 03 2013 06:32 TaishiCi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 06:04 for_the_swarm wrote:On October 02 2013 22:04 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
another nail in the coffin . i bet my sweet ass dustin browder and david kim are farting in self-satisfaction over how good they are doing their job. uh.. they did their job.. they made a great game in SC2.. as for the popularity of the game, i blame the foreigners.. If they would step up their game and start winning, then it would give the audience something to cheer for.. when stephano was winning tournaments and beating the best koreans, there were tons of viewers.. foreigners HAVE to start beating the koreans to keep the viewers interested. While poorly worded and bit too REAL for TL, there is a point to be had. One or two foreigners need to step it up and start playing at a championship level. Not foreign championship level, but at a Korean championship level.
this is an interesting point. i think that as the training regimes in korea tighten and the skill homogenisation increases due to the game design and the time the game has been out (top 5 players rotating even quicker than before), this will be harder and harder for foreigners.
what i think will get crowds more involved is not foreigners starting to win (mainly because this just isn't going to happen for so many reasons), but getting koreans to connect with english speaking fans more. watching DRG joke around on stream the other day had such an electric effect on those watching. polt's fanbase is huge because of this. even mediocre koreans (by korean standards) who engage with their english audience get more dedicated fans and higher viewers. violet comes to mind. seeing forGG start to talk a little is also heartening.
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With no Proleague for EG anymore (as this seems to imply), I could see Alive, Revival and Oz being axed very soon (unless they are dirty cheap for the team, which they might be)
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On October 03 2013 13:16 Ace Frehley wrote:
With no Proleague for EG anymore (as this seems to imply), I could see Alive, Revival and Oz being axed very soon (unless they are dirty cheap for the team, which they might be)
Between those three and Jaedong, EG is almost guaranteed tournament presence in the Top 4 of any tournament. Can't see any of them being axed.
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On October 03 2013 12:28 dreamseller wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 06:32 TaishiCi wrote:On October 03 2013 06:04 for_the_swarm wrote:On October 02 2013 22:04 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
another nail in the coffin . i bet my sweet ass dustin browder and david kim are farting in self-satisfaction over how good they are doing their job. uh.. they did their job.. they made a great game in SC2.. as for the popularity of the game, i blame the foreigners.. If they would step up their game and start winning, then it would give the audience something to cheer for.. when stephano was winning tournaments and beating the best koreans, there were tons of viewers.. foreigners HAVE to start beating the koreans to keep the viewers interested. While poorly worded and bit too REAL for TL, there is a point to be had. One or two foreigners need to step it up and start playing at a championship level. Not foreign championship level, but at a Korean championship level. this is an interesting point. i think that as the training regimes in korea tighten and the skill homogenisation increases due to the game design and the time the game has been out (top 5 players rotating even quicker than before), this will be harder and harder for foreigners. what i think will get crowds more involved is not foreigners starting to win (mainly because this just isn't going to happen for so many reasons), but getting koreans to connect with english speaking fans more. watching DRG joke around on stream the other day had such an electric effect on those watching. polt's fanbase is huge because of this. even mediocre koreans (by korean standards) who engage with their english audience get more dedicated fans and higher viewers. violet comes to mind. seeing forGG start to talk a little is also heartening.
If only the players demonstration of skill was enough to keep fans excited but alas, SC 2 is not that game. We are almost asking the players to be like Muhammad Ali and hype the fuck out of their competitions. And most of our champions dont speak english too well...
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United States23455 Posts
On October 03 2013 13:16 Ace Frehley wrote:
With no Proleague for EG anymore (as this seems to imply), I could see Alive, Revival and Oz being axed very soon (unless they are dirty cheap for the team, which they might be)
I'm interested to hear why the three of them would be "axed" in your opinion.
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On October 03 2013 13:16 Ace Frehley wrote:
With no Proleague for EG anymore (as this seems to imply), I could see Alive, Revival and Oz being axed very soon (unless they are dirty cheap for the team, which they might be)
Yes, lets keep incontrol, demuslim and machine. They would be the laughing stock of any tournament. Think about it! Without Koreans EG has these 3 players. hahaha.....I can't think of any other player on EG; and I can't think of any other foreign team that's worst than a team with those 3 players, one is a personality, one does the same macro build every single game and can't stand early pressure or cheese then go whine, and the other can't stand straight in NA master. Talk about cheap.
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This whole "death of StarCraft" thing is going to become a self fulfilling prophecy because of the constant whining of the community.
Do you have any idea how off-putting it is to someone new to StarCraft to check out one of these forums and see "zomfg the game is dead LoL and DotA are killing us Blizzard fucks everything up" ? What incentive is there for that person to hang around?
It'd be one thing if it was confined to the forums - but all you saw today on WCS: NA Challenger was a constant stream of "there's no one watching this SC2 is dead" - why would any non-subscriber sitting there watching the chat pull out their credit card and buy a subscription?
It's like there's this massive failure to realize pro-gaming teams are businesses. They aren't clubs of friends that rise and fall in direct correlation to the popularity of the game. If EG-TL felt the returns of the Korean team house weren't justified in it costs, why would they continue with it? Pouring sponsor's money into unsustainable operations will kill teams and StarCraft as a whole a hell of a lot faster than Koreans playing in WCS: NA...
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On October 03 2013 11:19 docvoc wrote:
I mean it makes sense since EGTL won't be participating now so it makes little sense for them to continue having it open and spending money on it.
Indeed, I fail to see why there is so much DOOM and GLOOM about this particular announcement!
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On October 03 2013 13:50 ctbower5 wrote:
This whole "death of StarCraft" thing is going to become a self fulfilling prophecy because of the constant whining of the community.
Do you have any idea how off-putting it is to someone new to StarCraft to check out one of these forums and see "zomfg the game is dead LoL and DotA are killing us Blizzard fucks everything up" ? What incentive is there for that person to hang around?
It'd be one thing if it was confined to the forums - but all you saw today on WCS: NA Challenger was a constant stream of "there's no one watching this SC2 is dead" - why would any non-subscriber sitting there watching the chat pull out their credit card and buy a subscription?
It's like there's this massive failure to realize pro-gaming teams are businesses. They aren't clubs of friends that rise and fall in direct correlation to the popularity of the game. If EG-TL felt the returns of the Korean team house weren't justified in it costs, why would they continue with it? Pouring sponsor's money into unsustainable operations will kill teams and StarCraft as a whole a hell of a lot faster than Koreans playing in WCS: NA...
There are people who are more invested in seeing SC2 do poorly for one reason or another than succeed. Not that certain critiques made against the current state of SC2 are not valid, they definitely are, but more often then not a lot of it is far more destructive than constructive. And those individuals know that, and they simply don't care.
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On October 03 2013 13:45 NoGasfOu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 13:16 Ace Frehley wrote:
With no Proleague for EG anymore (as this seems to imply), I could see Alive, Revival and Oz being axed very soon (unless they are dirty cheap for the team, which they might be) Yes, lets keep incontrol, demuslim and machine. They would be the laughing stock of any tournament. Think about it! Without Koreans EG has these 3 players. hahaha.....I can't think of any other player on EG; and I can't think of any other foreign team that's worst than a team with those 3 players, one is a personality, one does the same macro build every single game and can't stand early pressure or cheese then go whine, and the other can't stand straight in NA master. Talk about cheap.
There's this constant shock from the community that Korean teams that aren't diversified are dropping players or outright failing. I would imagine EG is in by far the strongest financial position of any team because they keep guys like iNcontroL and DeMuslim around.
DeMuslim was what? Top 3 streamer last month? That's a lot of exposure he's giving EG and their sponsors. iNcontroL is out there hosting WCS: EU Season 3 Finals - that's more exposure for EG. The fact that they have these guys that do more than play the game is one of the reasons they'll continue to succeed where others fail.
The fact that they have multiple sponsors and play multiple games will also contribute to that. Pro-gaming is the same as any other form of investment, without diversification you're living on a knife edge. If you [or the scene as a whole] slip up - you're likely screwed.
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On October 03 2013 14:02 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 13:50 ctbower5 wrote:
This whole "death of StarCraft" thing is going to become a self fulfilling prophecy because of the constant whining of the community.
Do you have any idea how off-putting it is to someone new to StarCraft to check out one of these forums and see "zomfg the game is dead LoL and DotA are killing us Blizzard fucks everything up" ? What incentive is there for that person to hang around?
It'd be one thing if it was confined to the forums - but all you saw today on WCS: NA Challenger was a constant stream of "there's no one watching this SC2 is dead" - why would any non-subscriber sitting there watching the chat pull out their credit card and buy a subscription?
It's like there's this massive failure to realize pro-gaming teams are businesses. They aren't clubs of friends that rise and fall in direct correlation to the popularity of the game. If EG-TL felt the returns of the Korean team house weren't justified in it costs, why would they continue with it? Pouring sponsor's money into unsustainable operations will kill teams and StarCraft as a whole a hell of a lot faster than Koreans playing in WCS: NA... There are people who are more invested in seeing SC2 do poorly for one reason or another than succeed. Not that certain critiques made against the current state of SC2 are not valid, they definitely are, but more often then not a lot of it is far more destructive than constructive. And those individuals know that, and they simply don't care.
I'll probably get shit for this but the reason you see so many of those types of comments here on TL is because vengeful BW veterans that haven't left the general website community and watch LoL/Dota/sospa/whatever are using the opportunity to " take revenge " for the death of brood war and post negative reactions. If you go to the profile of many of the negative comments and look at their post history you will see many of them only post in the sc2 section to comment on things like this. Seeing the sea of negativity discourages actual starcraft 2 fans from posting and they just tune it out by not reading the thread beyond the OP.
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On October 03 2013 14:02 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 13:50 ctbower5 wrote:
This whole "death of StarCraft" thing is going to become a self fulfilling prophecy because of the constant whining of the community.
Do you have any idea how off-putting it is to someone new to StarCraft to check out one of these forums and see "zomfg the game is dead LoL and DotA are killing us Blizzard fucks everything up" ? What incentive is there for that person to hang around?
It'd be one thing if it was confined to the forums - but all you saw today on WCS: NA Challenger was a constant stream of "there's no one watching this SC2 is dead" - why would any non-subscriber sitting there watching the chat pull out their credit card and buy a subscription?
It's like there's this massive failure to realize pro-gaming teams are businesses. They aren't clubs of friends that rise and fall in direct correlation to the popularity of the game. If EG-TL felt the returns of the Korean team house weren't justified in it costs, why would they continue with it? Pouring sponsor's money into unsustainable operations will kill teams and StarCraft as a whole a hell of a lot faster than Koreans playing in WCS: NA... There are people who are more invested in seeing SC2 do poorly for one reason or another than succeed. Not that certain critiques made against the current state of SC2 are not valid, they definitely are, but more often then not a lot of it is far more destructive than constructive. And those individuals know that, and they simply don't care.
I don't doubt there are many things that could be done differently. I think most people involved with StarCraft are pretty open about that. They also seem to be pretty open about being complacent while they were at the top. The point still stands, though. This mass of negativity is in no way going to revive the scene. Obviously the people you're speaking of understand that and want to exploit it. It's simply a shame so many others are so eager to embrace it.
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SC2 just feels really stagnant to me. That is my main qualm with it and where I feel is most falls short compared to other games.
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On October 03 2013 13:38 Twiggs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 12:28 dreamseller wrote:On October 03 2013 06:32 TaishiCi wrote:On October 03 2013 06:04 for_the_swarm wrote:On October 02 2013 22:04 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
another nail in the coffin . i bet my sweet ass dustin browder and david kim are farting in self-satisfaction over how good they are doing their job. uh.. they did their job.. they made a great game in SC2.. as for the popularity of the game, i blame the foreigners.. If they would step up their game and start winning, then it would give the audience something to cheer for.. when stephano was winning tournaments and beating the best koreans, there were tons of viewers.. foreigners HAVE to start beating the koreans to keep the viewers interested. While poorly worded and bit too REAL for TL, there is a point to be had. One or two foreigners need to step it up and start playing at a championship level. Not foreign championship level, but at a Korean championship level. this is an interesting point. i think that as the training regimes in korea tighten and the skill homogenisation increases due to the game design and the time the game has been out (top 5 players rotating even quicker than before), this will be harder and harder for foreigners. what i think will get crowds more involved is not foreigners starting to win (mainly because this just isn't going to happen for so many reasons), but getting koreans to connect with english speaking fans more. watching DRG joke around on stream the other day had such an electric effect on those watching. polt's fanbase is huge because of this. even mediocre koreans (by korean standards) who engage with their english audience get more dedicated fans and higher viewers. violet comes to mind. seeing forGG start to talk a little is also heartening. If only the players demonstration of skill was enough to keep fans excited but alas, SC 2 is not that game. We are almost asking the players to be like Muhammad Ali and hype the fuck out of their competitions. And most of our champions dont speak english too well...
there are no clear forerunners, so of course skill is less important.
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Just hope Jaedong won't go back to Team 8 because of this. SC2 environment is even worse in Korea, and he's character suits EG better i think.
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On October 03 2013 15:02 lystier wrote:
Just hope Jaedong won't go back to Team 8 because of this. SC2 environment is even worse in Korea, and he's character suits EG better i think.
I don't see why he would. He's still a huge asset for EG, and all the travel he gets from EG has made a huge difference for his SC2 career.
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How the hell did the entire StarCraft 2 scene manage to collapse in the span of one year?
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On October 03 2013 15:02 lystier wrote:
Just hope Jaedong won't go back to Team 8 because of this. SC2 environment is even worse in Korea, and he's character suits EG better i think.
I doubt it, he has good tournament results and is very populair. He's imo still a big asset to EG.
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On October 03 2013 15:17 Penguinator wrote:
How the hell did the entire StarCraft 2 scene manage to collapse in the span of one year?
Its not a collapse. Just dying a gradual death since beginning of 2012 when LOL took over korea. Same with LOL taking over China. Once China has been taken over by lol, dota will die a slow death like sc.
Nonetheless, I still believe korean fan/player base will still stick with dota/sc in the long run. I rlly can't see how the country that mastered BW could ever go fully into an inferior game like lol. There is only so much that the kiddies market can do as they tend to grow up.
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EPT
