|
On August 27 2013 15:52 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 07:28 HolyArrow wrote:On August 27 2013 07:26 WeRRa wrote:On August 27 2013 07:23 HolyArrow wrote:On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote:
IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends. Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him! Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure. There is zero proof to support that claim. Look at how quickly he improved under coach park/in the EGTL house compared to before then. Now imagine he had that whole system set up all along, and in a team that could actually afford nice things.
When you say a "team that could actually afford nice things" you're still talking about Team 8 right?
Once-upon-a-time-sponsorless-Team8-help-up-by-Kespa-funding Team 8?
Maybe you're imagining him in a better funded team?
Point still 100% true. There are lots of players that have gone to foreign teams and gotten better. There are a large number that have gone from foreign to full time and gotten worse. Like the only thing that affects skill is your logo.
|
On August 27 2013 16:27 Fionn wrote:
Why are people talking about skill.
Innovation doesn't need to be Korea's best. He can go hang out in the Acer German house next year, get top four every season in WCS Europe, get points from going to every Tier 1 WCS Tournament, and make Blizzcon comfortably. His skill might decrease somewhat, but he'll still be good enough to have a shot at top four at any tournament Acer sends him to.
A year ago this could be called a dumb move because GSL was having a $50,000 first place tournament every other month and it looked like OSL was going to follow suit with three tournaments a year with a high prize pool. Now? WCS America, Europe and Korea all pay out the same. You have three major Korean tournaments a year, all paying out $20,000 for you winning.
The whole goal in the new Starcraft 2 scene is to get enough points, make it to Blizzcon, and battle for the huge prize money. On a foreign team, he can pick whatever the fuck region he wants in '14, go to any foreign tournament he wants, and easily make Blizzcon instead of having to worry about rookies like Sora or Bunny coming up in Korea. While if he stayed in the KeSPA circle, joined KT or SKT, and stayed in WCS Korea, he'd still be a favorite to make top eight every season, with the level of competition and how new players are coming out of the woodwork, there are no easy groups in the GSL/OSL.
Seems like a logical, smart decision. KeSPA might have been able to pay more per contract, but he'll make more through traveling and getting to play in tournaments without worrying about Proleague every week. It sucks for people who want to see Innovation continue to evolve into a Flash-type player who can dominate tournament after tournament, but with how the current WCS is set up, tying himself to a KeSPA team and Proleague just doesn't seem like the wisest decision.
Look at Jaedong. Yeah, he probably could be another level higher if he stayed on the Jin Air Green Wings or went to SKT/KT, but there are no guarantees being another level better would get him through the WCS Korea region. On EG, he gets to play in an easier region, go to every single foreign tournament he wants, and rake in more money than Innovation has. I've always been behind the notion that the best players having to play in Korea in the best tournaments, but with Blizzard wanting to make the scene truly global and equal, Innovation made the smart career choice. Maybe not the best one for the ceiling of talent, but the right choice for his future.
And that's why Mvp is the smartest Terran of all time. First Kespa pro to switch to SC2 and dominate, first to switch to WCS EU (after doing just enough to win Nestea award) and won the very soft WCS EU Season 1, probably secure enough WCS points for Blizzcon already.
|
United States23455 Posts
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 27 2013 16:34 painkilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:27 Fionn wrote:
Why are people talking about skill.
Innovation doesn't need to be Korea's best. He can go hang out in the Acer German house next year, get top four every season in WCS Europe, get points from going to every Tier 1 WCS Tournament, and make Blizzcon comfortably. His skill might decrease somewhat, but he'll still be good enough to have a shot at top four at any tournament Acer sends him to.
A year ago this could be called a dumb move because GSL was having a $50,000 first place tournament every other month and it looked like OSL was going to follow suit with three tournaments a year with a high prize pool. Now? WCS America, Europe and Korea all pay out the same. You have three major Korean tournaments a year, all paying out $20,000 for you winning.
The whole goal in the new Starcraft 2 scene is to get enough points, make it to Blizzcon, and battle for the huge prize money. On a foreign team, he can pick whatever the fuck region he wants in '14, go to any foreign tournament he wants, and easily make Blizzcon instead of having to worry about rookies like Sora or Bunny coming up in Korea. While if he stayed in the KeSPA circle, joined KT or SKT, and stayed in WCS Korea, he'd still be a favorite to make top eight every season, with the level of competition and how new players are coming out of the woodwork, there are no easy groups in the GSL/OSL.
Seems like a logical, smart decision. KeSPA might have been able to pay more per contract, but he'll make more through traveling and getting to play in tournaments without worrying about Proleague every week. It sucks for people who want to see Innovation continue to evolve into a Flash-type player who can dominate tournament after tournament, but with how the current WCS is set up, tying himself to a KeSPA team and Proleague just doesn't seem like the wisest decision.
Look at Jaedong. Yeah, he probably could be another level higher if he stayed on the Jin Air Green Wings or went to SKT/KT, but there are no guarantees being another level better would get him through the WCS Korea region. On EG, he gets to play in an easier region, go to every single foreign tournament he wants, and rake in more money than Innovation has. I've always been behind the notion that the best players having to play in Korea in the best tournaments, but with Blizzard wanting to make the scene truly global and equal, Innovation made the smart career choice. Maybe not the best one for the ceiling of talent, but the right choice for his future. And that's why Mvp is the smartest Terran of all time. First Kespa pro to switch to SC2 and dominate, first to switch to WCS EU (after doing just enough to win Nestea award) and won the very soft WCS EU Season 1, probably secure enough WCS points for Blizzcon already.
Game Genie Terran got the life hacks too
|
Not number one anymore though
|
Concluded and translated a short interview with Innovation last night, here is a small preview:
"Many people are excited that you are going to be playing for Acer from now on and maybe we will see you in a lot more international tournaments. Got anything to say anything to say about that?"
"Errr... nothing, really."
"Nothing?"
"Nothing."
|
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
How do you know, there won't be some form of region lock in 2014?
Also I don't see how people can argue Jaedong would be better now if he was on Team8 still. He had the same traning regime as kespa players in the EG-TL house in korea under coach park and improved way faster than most Kespa players in the past 4 months. And that's because of the additional (foreign) tournament experience he got by being on EG imo. Playing in other tournaments than PL or WCS KR every month and reaching the finals every time brought him on another level. I don't think that would've happened with Kespa.
|
On August 27 2013 16:29 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 15:52 GTPGlitch wrote:On August 27 2013 07:28 HolyArrow wrote:On August 27 2013 07:26 WeRRa wrote:On August 27 2013 07:23 HolyArrow wrote:On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote:
IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends. Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him! Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure. There is zero proof to support that claim. Look at how quickly he improved under coach park/in the EGTL house compared to before then. Now imagine he had that whole system set up all along, and in a team that could actually afford nice things. When you say a "team that could actually afford nice things" you're still talking about Team 8 right? Once-upon-a-time-sponsorless-Team8-help-up-by-Kespa-funding Team 8? Maybe you're imagining him in a better funded team? Point still 100% true. There are lots of players that have gone to foreign teams and gotten better. There are a large number that have gone from foreign to full time and gotten worse. Like the only thing that affects skill is your logo.
Or maybe when he says a "team that could actually afford nice things" he's talking about Oz, Jaedong's original team and the one he was on during his prime (and most of his career). I mean let's be honest, Team 8 for the most part performed pretty poorly. And Jaedong himself performed pretty poorly while on Team 8, which goes to show that just having a teamhouse and coaches isn't the be all end all of things, although at first glance it may seem like it.
But yeah I think a lot of people underestimate EG. I'm not sure what exactly they're doing or how long they can keep it up (what with Coach Park leaving and whatnot) but for the time being they're doing really really well.
|
Most of korean in korean scene say he had decided to move to Acer for the money.
Since foreign teams are more advantageous for participating in many of overseas competitions, and it is easy to earn the money much more than KESPA Team.
Acer would certainly guarantees participation to the overseas competition at the stage of negotiations.
|
United States23455 Posts
On August 27 2013 16:43 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more. How do you know, there won't be some form of region lock in 2014? Also I don't see how people can argue Jaedong would be better now if he was on Team8 still. He had the same traning regime as kespa players in the EG-TL house in korea under coach park and improved way faster than most Kespa players in the past 4 months. And that's because of the additional (foreign) tournament experience he got by being on EG imo. Playing in other tournaments than PL or WCS KR every month and reaching the finals every time brought him on another level. I don't think that would've happened with Kespa.
If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate.
|
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
And that is the reason why a region lock of WCS would be a pretty good thing.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate.
Oh well, yes. You have a point there. But can't it be dependant on the nationality? I'm pretty sure that a korean who merely speaks english will get the german "Staatsbürgerschaft" that easily.
|
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 27 2013 16:47 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more. And that is the reason why a region lock of WCS would be a pretty good thing.
With Blizzard's near-monopoly of individual tournaments in Korea, no it would not be.
Also, a big fuck you to AU/SEA/CN/TW/Africa
|
On August 27 2013 16:47 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more. And that is the reason why a region lock of WCS would be a pretty good thing. Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate. Oh well, yes. You have a point there. But can't it be dependant on the nationality? I'm pretty sure that a korean who merely speaks english will get the german "Staatsbürgerschaft" that easily.
Why would it be nationality based, that's basically saying fuck you if you want to live outside the region/country you were born in and still play sc2.
|
United States23455 Posts
The whole point of non-region locking was so elite Koreans could go to the other two regions, stay there, and level up the foreigners in said region by practicing on that ladder, joining teams in that region, and living there. That fell apart when they let people from Korea come down to a specific region for six days a tournament and then fly back to Korea, but if they made it so you had to live in that region throughout the year or be there for every offline portion of the tournament, you might actually see what Blizzard dreamed of come true. If you have Innovation and others on the European ladder, living there and actually integrating with the other GM's in Europe, you could see some changes.
Now it's pretty much a joke. Mvp can fly down for two weekends, say he's European, beat up the actual Europeans, and then go back to Korea. Hopefully with the Acer house opening up in Germany, we see Innovation and MMA move full-time to Europe and practice there.
|
On August 27 2013 16:45 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:43 Musicus wrote:On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more. How do you know, there won't be some form of region lock in 2014? Also I don't see how people can argue Jaedong would be better now if he was on Team8 still. He had the same traning regime as kespa players in the EG-TL house in korea under coach park and improved way faster than most Kespa players in the past 4 months. And that's because of the additional (foreign) tournament experience he got by being on EG imo. Playing in other tournaments than PL or WCS KR every month and reaching the finals every time brought him on another level. I don't think that would've happened with Kespa. If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate.
That's true, Inno doesn't strike me as someone that would truly move to Germany long term though. Also Acer will be focusing more on Korea in the future. Scarlett said they'll play GSTL and any future player for Acer will most likely be korean. We'll see what happens if there is a region lock I guess. Otherwise they can play GSTL and WCS KR/AM just like this year.
|
Congrats to Acer on an excellent pick up.
Being a Korean-tournament kind of guy though, I have be disappointed. Most likely no more Proleague for him, and a lot fewer clashes with Flash. Losing him from the GSL is a big let down.
I still hope he does well in WCS EU (assuming he moves there).
|
On August 27 2013 16:52 Fionn wrote:
The whole point of non-region locking was so elite Koreans could go to the other two regions, stay there, and level up the foreigners in said region by practicing on that ladder, joining teams in that region, and living there. That fell apart when they let people from Korea come down to a specific region for six days a tournament and then fly back to Korea, but if they made it so you had to live in that region throughout the year or be there for every offline portion of the tournament, you might actually see what Blizzard dreamed of come true. If you have Innovation and others on the European ladder, living there and actually integrating with the other GM's in Europe, you could see some changes.
Now it's pretty much a joke. Mvp can fly down for two weekends, say he's European, beat up the actual Europeans, and then go back to Korea. Hopefully with the Acer house opening up in Germany, we see Innovation and MMA move full-time to Europe and practice there.
Except that Koreans can's stay long term in NA/EU because esport is not a legitimate career as far as immigration policy is concerned. The way I see it Korea has enough talents to saturate all three regions so that we have equal and top level competition everywhere. More Koreans would join foreign teams and that would benefit foreign progamers. No need to region lock.
If a fan wants to cheer for a true foreigner, they can cheer for him in challenger league.
|
This is the nail in the coffin for stx. Really sad to see them go. I really want to know where the rest of the stx-players will ens up now. Dear, trap and mini in particular. Would seem like nice pickups for any team. Wrong thread, i know, but my heart is almost broken. I hope they find a way. Good luck to you bogus!!!
|
Im really happy of this move. We will start seeing more Innovation in foreign tournaments as well. I'm also wondering the situation between MMA-Innovation, now they have two high level Korean terran players. If they start training together in the team house, that might bring us pretty good results from both of them. Of course I'm sure their training has been really good already, especially Innovation's in a Kespa team. But as a MMA fan I'm waiting to see if Innovation could somehow fire up the old MMA.
But it's sad that STX Soul is going as well..
|
On August 27 2013 16:47 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more. And that is the reason why a region lock of WCS would be a pretty good thing. Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote:
If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate. Oh well, yes. You have a point there. But can't it be dependant on the nationality? I'm pretty sure that a korean who merely speaks english will get the german "Staatsbürgerschaft" that easily.
fyi, Staatsbürgerschaft=citizenship
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
