Professional Korean StarCraft player Lee "INnoVation" Shin Hyung, currently signed to Korean team STX Soul under the Korean eSports Association (KeSPA), is expected to join Team Acer on September 1 when his current contract runs out, sources close to the situation tell GameSpot.
Team Acer has declined comment. KeSPA has not returned comment as of this posting (it is 4:30 AM in Korea), but I have requested comment on both Innovation's contract with STX in relation to Acer's signing, as well as the proposed financial problems of STX Soul.
Barring any unforeseen consequences from the announcement of the announcement by Acer, Innovation will continue to join the team when his STX Soul contract runs out.
Sources do not include Reddit, Fomos, or Acer's own teasers. My sources, for all my news/articles, come from informed individuals close to whatever situation is currently at hand, never second hand sources. If I were to take news from Reddit itself, I would cite so in the piece, and never claim that to be my 'source' as it's ridiculous. While Acer's teasers may have been pretty blatant, there was still some wiggle room for it to be another player, and also did not impact my story as a source. I was writing this up as of last night (before all hell broke loose this morning). They did prompt me to get this out today (though KeSPA totally owned me).
wow. saw the speculation in the other thread but still wasn't really expecting it. what a pickup by acer. let's hope he's able to stay sharp without the kespa training regiment!
On August 27 2013 04:58 grs wrote: What is the difference between this post and the thread we already have? This is no news because it is posted on gamespot, is it?
The other thread is a announcement of a announcement basically.
Based slasher with the confirmation! Lock up the other thread now! I'm glad acer's announcement got spoiled. I hate announcements of announcements. Announce that shit right away or not at all. Happy whenever an announcement of an announcement gets leaked.
I mean given all the info fed to us by Scarlett and the silhouette by Acer it was like 98% going to be Bogus. The only thing that was blocking me was imagining that arguably the best player in the world would be joining Acer o.O
wow. Guess this will mean we'll be seeing him more at foreign events. I wonder how he'll fare.
On August 27 2013 05:01 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: crazy...
I mean given all the info fed to us by Scarlett and the silhouette by Acer it was like 98% going to be Bogus. The only thing that was blocking me was imagining that arguably the best player in the world would be joining Acer o.O
wow. Guess this will mean we'll be seeing him more at foreign events. I wonder how he'll fare.
Kinda worried what this will mean for his level of skill. I mean, to go from the intense KeSPA regime to a less stressful schedule and an arguably easier set of opponents has to have an effect. On the other hand, INno did say that he mostly practiced ladder, and even if he moved to Europe, playing on the KR ladder isn't impossible.
I am shocked that EG and TL let this slip. MMA, Innovation and Scarlett training together in Korea will set expectations for some strong results. Congratulations to Acer for this massive catch.
I feel bad for acer. Imagine how absolutely huge it would have been if they would have just suddenly announced the switch. Everyone would be going crazy.
Now, everyone is going "meh, knew it for days!". Even though Innovation. is. joining. team. Acer.
On August 27 2013 05:07 USvBleakill wrote: And i am a bit worried for Innovation wether he is able to maintain his level without a full teamhouse environment.
On August 27 2013 05:08 Conti wrote: I feel bad for acer. Imagine how absolutely huge it would have been if they would have just suddenly announced the switch. Everyone would be going crazy.
Now, everyone is going "meh, knew it for days!". Even though Innovation. is. joining. team. Acer.
On August 27 2013 05:07 USvBleakill wrote: And i am a bit worried for Innovation wether he is able to maintain his level without a full teamhouse environment.
They still have a teamhouse though.
Well you can't really compare the acer house to the structure of a kespa house. That bly cooking tho.
Seems old news lol. Like stx soul is failing, and we have a thread about it. Than we have all the evidence of it from twitter posts. And it really leaves only innovation. Haha. I really don't see it as big as jaedong going to EG. But good pick up for acer. Acer may just have the strongest team line up now.
On August 27 2013 05:13 Glorfindel! wrote: I dont see any news in this article not presented in the other thread. Not thread worthy IMO.
The other thread should be locked up. It's an announcement of an announcement now. It doesn't matter if there's no new info. This one is confirmed by slasher and you can take it to the bank cause his sources are legit.
On August 27 2013 05:08 Dr.Sin wrote: I am shocked that EG and TL let this slip. MMA, Innovation and Scarlett training together in Korea will set expectations for some strong results. Congratulations to Acer for this massive catch.
Well judging from everything that is public as of now Acer passed the team/kespa and went to him directly. Kespa likes to do a bidding war but wont have a chance to do so now since Acer jumped the line.
Sources do not include Reddit, Fomos, or Acer's own teasers. My sources, for all my news/articles, come from informed individuals close to whatever situation is currently at hand, never second hand sources. If I were to take news from Reddit itself, I would cite so in the piece, and never claim that to be my 'source' as it's ridiculous. While Acer's teasers may have been pretty blatant, there was still some wiggle room for it to be another player, and also did not impact my story as a source. I was writing this up as of last night (before all hell broke loose this morning). They did prompt me to get this out today (though KeSPA totally owned me).
On August 27 2013 05:13 Glorfindel! wrote: I dont see any news in this article not presented in the other thread. Not thread worthy IMO.
The other thread should be locked up. It's an announcement of an announcement now. It doesn't matter if there's no new info. This one is confirmed by slasher and you can take it to the bank cause his sources are legit.
My point it if Slashes confirms Bomber as a winner of WCS-Season 2 it does not make it thread worthy "just because". Everybody already knows he won.
These are old news and all information, hints, photo-retouches are in the other thread along with 35 pages of comments. Seems weird to start a new one to "confirm" what was already confirmed by everyone.
On August 27 2013 05:07 USvBleakill wrote: And i am a bit worried for Innovation wether he is able to maintain his level without a full teamhouse environment.
They still have a teamhouse though.
They don't got a full staff behind him, and a line of practice partners.
On August 27 2013 05:08 Dr.Sin wrote: I am shocked that EG and TL let this slip. MMA, Innovation and Scarlett training together in Korea will set expectations for some strong results. Congratulations to Acer for this massive catch.
They went straight to Innovation himself and got him before anyone even realized.
Things heating up in the foreigner teams! Now i pray to gods that EG signs Jaedong for another year, but i bet KESPA are feeling hella stingy right now after what just went down..
Not really surprising. There really are no advantages for top Korean players to stay in Korea anymore. There used to be the $50,000 GSL seasons, but with the WCS system, winning the Korean season gives you the same amount of money as if you win the European or American season. In the end, everything is about making it to Blizzcon, and what is the best way to make it to Blizzcon? Go to as many foreign tournaments as possible and accumulate points/money. On a KeSPA team, you're tethered to Proleague schedule and have to go through strenuous qualifiers to have a chance to go to these tournaments. On Acer, he can go to any foreign tournament he wants, pick any region he wants for 2014, and he can go the Jaedong/Polt route of racking up WCS points without having to go through the always changing and challenging Korean region.
On August 27 2013 05:31 Fionn wrote: Not really surprising. There really are no advantages for top Korean players to stay in Korea anymore. There used to be the $50,000 GSL seasons, but with the WCS system, winning the Korean season gives you the same amount of money as if you win the European or American season. In the end, everything is about making it to Blizzcon, and what is the best way to make it to Blizzcon? Go to as many foreign tournaments as possible and accumulate points/money. On a KeSPA team, you're tethered to Proleague schedule and have to go through strenuous qualifiers to have a chance to go to these tournaments. On Acer, he can go to any foreign tournament he wants, pick any region he wants for 2014, and he can go the Jaedong/Polt route of racking up WCS points without having to go through the always changing and challenging Korean region.
Plus going out and about may help him develop emotions.
On August 27 2013 05:31 Fionn wrote: Not really surprising. There really are no advantages for top Korean players to stay in Korea anymore. There used to be the $50,000 GSL seasons, but with the WCS system, winning the Korean season gives you the same amount of money as if you win the European or American season. In the end, everything is about making it to Blizzcon, and what is the best way to make it to Blizzcon? Go to as many foreign tournaments as possible and accumulate points/money. On a KeSPA team, you're tethered to Proleague schedule and have to go through strenuous qualifiers to have a chance to go to these tournaments. On Acer, he can go to any foreign tournament he wants, pick any region he wants for 2014, and he can go the Jaedong/Polt route of racking up WCS points without having to go through the always changing and challenging Korean region.
TLDR Fion not impressed. International scene is where it's at, only natural.
Pretty crazy to see the 'best player in the world' ? to join a foreign team though. Can't wait to see him at other events outside korea
Good job on trying to get that "leaked" information out to all the fans first! It was pretty much well known in the previous threads where you also pretty much got your "sources" from...
does acer have any good protoss? I know good zergs and terran they have. innovation is solid against zergs. against terran hes good but not as good vs zerg.
Watching his matches he is not as good vs protoss. be great if he has good protoss players to practice with
On August 27 2013 05:37 Rupyness wrote: does acer have any good protoss? I know good zergs and terran they have. innovation is solid against zergs. against terran hes good but not as good vs zerg.
Watching his matches he is not as good vs protoss. be great if he has good protoss players to practice with
On August 27 2013 05:37 Rupyness wrote: does acer have any good protoss? I know good zergs and terran they have. innovation is solid against zergs. against terran hes good but not as good vs zerg.
Watching his matches he is not as good vs protoss. be great if he has good protoss players to practice with
They have no toss, granted MMA and Scarlett are in in Axiom's team house most of time, so Innovation can use his team-mates and Alicia (well, Crank better get his health issues before i can consider him worthy of practice partner for Innovation) for practice.
On August 27 2013 05:37 Rupyness wrote: does acer have any good protoss? I know good zergs and terran they have. innovation is solid against zergs. against terran hes good but not as good vs zerg.
Watching his matches he is not as good vs protoss. be great if he has good protoss players to practice with
On August 27 2013 05:31 Fionn wrote: Not really surprising. There really are no advantages for top Korean players to stay in Korea anymore. There used to be the $50,000 GSL seasons, but with the WCS system, winning the Korean season gives you the same amount of money as if you win the European or American season. In the end, everything is about making it to Blizzcon, and what is the best way to make it to Blizzcon? Go to as many foreign tournaments as possible and accumulate points/money. On a KeSPA team, you're tethered to Proleague schedule and have to go through strenuous qualifiers to have a chance to go to these tournaments. On Acer, he can go to any foreign tournament he wants, pick any region he wants for 2014, and he can go the Jaedong/Polt route of racking up WCS points without having to go through the always changing and challenging Korean region.
Plus going out and about may help him develop emotions.
Him not showing emotion is incredibly intimidating, in my opinion.
On August 27 2013 05:13 Glorfindel! wrote: I dont see any news in this article not presented in the other thread. Not thread worthy IMO.
The other thread should be locked up. It's an announcement of an announcement now. It doesn't matter if there's no new info. This one is confirmed by slasher and you can take it to the bank cause his sources are legit.
My point it if Slashes confirms Bomber as a winner of WCS-Season 2 it does not make it thread worthy "just because". Everybody already knows he won.
These are old news and all information, hints, photo-retouches are in the other thread along with 35 pages of comments. Seems weird to start a new one to "confirm" what was already confirmed by everyone.
I agree this thread has zero news, but I guess it is left open because of slasher "reporting". I don't see any other reason.
On August 27 2013 05:37 Rupyness wrote: does acer have any good protoss? I know good zergs and terran they have. innovation is solid against zergs. against terran hes good but not as good vs zerg.
Watching his matches he is not as good vs protoss. be great if he has good protoss players to practice with
On August 27 2013 05:08 Conti wrote: I feel bad for acer. Imagine how absolutely huge it would have been if they would have just suddenly announced the switch. Everyone would be going crazy.
Now, everyone is going "meh, knew it for days!". Even though Innovation. is. joining. team. Acer.
Well, their teasing was terrible. They could have been way better at announcing this move. Like saying nothing, just like EG with Jaedong.
But you know what that means ? MORE INNOVATION INTERVIEWS !
good pickup for them obviously. his performance over the last few weeks has not been particularly impressive considering he's supposed to be the best player in the world (outside of his TvZ which has been full stompmode as per usual), but it's a very short period of time, maybe he'll get it back together. i gotta imagine it's a stressful time for him right now between his current team disbanding and getting everything in place for the switch to his new one.
On August 27 2013 05:05 75 wrote: i hope that he wont play in wcs eu ^^
That would make me SOOOOOOOOO mad
I would seriously rage and spam their twitter with hate
WCS Europe 2014: Mvp, Nestea, jjakji, MMA, Innovation, Bomber confirmed.
Bomber ? Really ?
Just kidding, obviously. Though it would be hilarious if WCS Europe had more ex-Code S players, than Code S.
It would be awesome.
No.
Why not ? Korea is oversaturated with talents and it would be nice if the regions are balanced.
You missed the hilarious part: it would be hilarious if WCS Europe had more players, who had been in Ro8 of Code S than Code S itself. Right now it is just Mvp, Naniwa and MMA (IIRC).
On August 27 2013 05:59 Drake wrote: Then Acer has 4 Zergs and 3 Terrans ... seems the manager RLY hates protoss xD
So I know this is completely awesome news for acer and all, but my first thought was actually worry for STX. I remember an article not too long ago that they were having financial backing issues and might close down. I really hope this is just me reading too much into it; that team still has some great players (hyvaa, trap, and dear all are in gsl code S).
Why on earth did Slasher have to publish this? We could all wait untill the 1st and get a good announcement from team Acer with player interviews and everything but instead we get this half assed post from Slasher which is mostly him ranting about where he got the information from. Just feels like Slasher is the guy who goes around on youtube posting: "1st!!!!!" on every video he possibly can.
On August 27 2013 06:09 Ronski wrote: Why on earth did Slasher have to publish this? We could all wait untill the 1st and get a good announcement from team Acer with player interviews and everything but instead we get this half assed post from Slasher which is mostly him ranting about where he got the information from. Just feels like Slasher is the guy who goes around on youtube posting: "1st!!!!!" on every video he possibly can.
You don't understand journalism, do you? Good journalists break stories when things are confirmed, the best journalists break the stories rather than sit on their hands and let it come naturally. Slasher is probably the best example of good e-sports journalism, and there arent many good ones out there.
On August 27 2013 06:09 Ronski wrote: Why on earth did Slasher have to publish this? We could all wait untill the 1st and get a good announcement from team Acer with player interviews and everything but instead we get this half assed post from Slasher which is mostly him ranting about where he got the information from. Just feels like Slasher is the guy who goes around on youtube posting: "1st!!!!!" on every video he possibly can.
cat is already out of the bag -- everybody and their mother has been confirming it since the stx post -- so no point not to post it.
Meh, hope he at least gets paid some crazy salary. Pretty sad to see him go to a foreign team Hopefully he'll explain why he didn't join a different Kespa team.
On August 27 2013 06:09 Ronski wrote: Why on earth did Slasher have to publish this? We could all wait untill the 1st and get a good announcement from team Acer with player interviews and everything but instead we get this half assed post from Slasher which is mostly him ranting about where he got the information from. Just feels like Slasher is the guy who goes around on youtube posting: "1st!!!!!" on every video he possibly can.
Completely agree, another potential great surprise ruined. But journalism is like that... who cares about the quality if you can be the first.
On August 27 2013 06:09 Ronski wrote: Why on earth did Slasher have to publish this? We could all wait untill the 1st and get a good announcement from team Acer with player interviews and everything but instead we get this half assed post from Slasher which is mostly him ranting about where he got the information from. Just feels like Slasher is the guy who goes around on youtube posting: "1st!!!!!" on every video he possibly can.
Completely agree, another potential great surprise ruined. But journalism is like that... who cares about the quality if you can be the first.
Lol what ? Everybody already knew before Slasher's article. Acer fucked up the announcement themselves.
On August 27 2013 06:09 Ronski wrote: Why on earth did Slasher have to publish this? We could all wait untill the 1st and get a good announcement from team Acer with player interviews and everything but instead we get this half assed post from Slasher which is mostly him ranting about where he got the information from. Just feels like Slasher is the guy who goes around on youtube posting: "1st!!!!!" on every video he possibly can.
Completely agree, another potential great surprise ruined. But journalism is like that... who cares about the quality if you can be the first.
Who cares about thinking out a baseless insult on slasher when Acer and Scarlett all but confirm it with not only teaser pics but blatant "hints" on twitter that all but single out Innovation as the next pickup. If Acer didnt want this leaked you can bet your ass they would just sit on the news until Sept 1 but obviously they didn't.
Wow this is huge. Kinda explains his mini slump recently. Must have been quite stressful on him working out this team transfer and was reflected in his recent performance.
Seems Acer is lacking Protoss practice partners for him though.
Everyone knows Innovation's on Acer, STX asks them not to officially reveal it before September 1st. Acer respects their wishes to not make formal announcement, Slasher says fuck that and reports what A) everyone with a brain already knew and B) what both Acer and STX were waiting to say in a few days anyway? Both late and unnecessary.
On August 27 2013 06:20 Venomsflame wrote: Everyone knows Innovation's on Acer, STX asks them not to officially reveal it before September 1st. Acer respects their wishes to not make formal announcement, Slasher says fuck that and reports what A) everyone with a brain already knew and B) what both Acer and STX were waiting to say in a few days anyway? Both late and unnecessary.
Solid reporting, Slasher #1.
Once again, the agreement is all on Acer between them and STX. If STX asked them to not reveal it before September 1st then dropping blatant reveals on who the pickup is going to get the news leaked whether it's "official" or not.
The thing is Acer must be paying him a lot or offering really good incentives for him to switch. Maybe Acer is stepping their game up. That or they just jumped the line and bypass the usual KeSPA procedures before anyone else got a chance. There is obviously a lot behind the scenes that we don't know.
Still it's one of the most shocking signings in starcraft history.
To all those people saying Innovation loses all his practice partners when he leaves STX makes no sense, because Korean players usually always have other practice partners outside their own team, a lot of high lvl players practice against each other there.
On August 27 2013 06:29 MrMercuG wrote: To all those people saying Innovation loses all his practice partners when he leaves STX makes no sense, because Korean players usually always have other practice partners outside their own team, a lot of high lvl players practice against each other there.
Yea. Korean progamers are humans not robots (yes, Innovation). Innovation's STX team mates who he has lived with for a very long time and is good friends with aren't going to turn him down for practice, especially because of how good he is.
On August 27 2013 04:56 Duggibobo wrote: Acer is all of a sudden the best foreign team
I think EG at least is pretty competitive. They have a much deeper lineup with Jaedong, Oz, Revival and Alive and then suppy and JYP are also both pretty good. Acer may have the best player (debatable, but that is not my point) but EG has a much stronger overall lineup.
Innovation ruined the announcement himself by not winning wcs. The original plan called for innovation to win WCS, him coming out of the booth, unzipping his stx jacket revealing an acer shirt and then mma, scarlett and cella throwing him in the air in victory.
On August 27 2013 06:29 MrMercuG wrote: To all those people saying Innovation loses all his practice partners when he leaves STX makes no sense, because Korean players usually always have other practice partners outside their own team, a lot of high lvl players practice against each other there.
Yea. Korean progamers are humans not robots (yes, Innovation). Innovation's STX team mates who he has lived with for a very long time and is good friends with aren't going to turn him down for practice, especially because of how good he is.
I've, very, very rarely seen non-Kespa players shout-out Kespa players as helping them practice. The other way around I've seen though. I've also seem Kespa players shout-out other Kespa players on rival teams before.
From my understanding, if you want to practice with a Kespa player you have to get permission with the coach don't you? It's not impossible that a Kespa player would play practice games with someone in his free-time, but given how demanding their schedules supposedly are, I don't then having much free-time for that sort of thing.
EG just played against Acer in SC2L a few hours ago in a very hilarious BO7 Replacing paranoid with innovation against Oz might have brought them the win, but EG is still very strong and managed to take it 4-3 in the end. also in this tourny it does seem like EG, Acer and TL are top 3 foreign teams, with Acer being number 2 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StarCraft_2_League
i can see them being number one with innovation though
I like it. To me, it makes Innovation more interesting. It shows that he's actually considering what kind of career he wants and is open to taking risks. Easiest thing would have been to stay within the Kespa system.
I thought it could've been Maru too, but INnovation ? Wow... Acer suddenly got really better !
Don't know how he'll do under the green shirt, but if Acer can manage to have one if not THE best foreigner currently with Scarlett, that may work as well for Inno !
IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him! Polt and Taeja are also now mere husks of what they used to be.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure. On the other hand, INnoVation always said he prepares his builds and for tournaments in general rather alone so.... He just needs coach Calm
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure. On the other hand, INnoVation always said he prepares his builds and for tournaments in general rather alone so.... He just needs coach Calm
Maybe Jaedong would be better now but we wouldn't know it as the KeSPA teams barely send their players at foreign events.
On August 27 2013 06:57 damod wrote: EG just played against Acer in SC2L a few hours ago in a very hilarious BO7 Replacing paranoid with innovation against Oz might have brought them the win, but EG is still very strong and managed to take it 4-3 in the end. also in this tourny it does seem like EG, Acer and TL are top 3 foreign teams, with Acer being number 2 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StarCraft_2_League
i can see them being number one with innovation though
that was a nice demonstration, that phoenix are op.
well we all pretty much already knew it but since we're doing unnoficial but sourceable news, how long is his contract, and how much will acer be paying the guy? he's pretty hot right now, I hope he made a good deal, even tho he seems to be slumping from what I've seen
On August 27 2013 07:39 JP Dayne wrote: well we all pretty much already knew it but since we're doing unnoficial but sourceable news, how long is his contract, and how much will acer be paying the guy? he's pretty hot right now, I hope he made a good deal, even tho he seems to be slumping from what I've seen
Seems to be slumping?? Innovation is a pure champion - even games he plays in the earlier rounds of a tournament look good enough to be the grand finals. He juuuuust barely lost to Taeja (who was on fire this weekend!) and probably would have taken out bomber and JD quite easily if his tvtaeja had gone just a tiny bit better.
acer went out of their way to back down on their announcement-of-announcement when they found out stx wanted them to wait. kind of a dick move to break the news now.
f slasher.
edit: nevermind I can't read edit2: now I'm not sure. f flasher to be safe.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure. On the other hand, INnoVation always said he prepares his builds and for tournaments in general rather alone so.... He just needs coach Calm
What ? The Kespa training regime myth is so busted at this point. JD, Taeja, Polt, First, Maru, Bomber, Scarlett, Naniwa ... how many more proofs do you need? The Kespa domination in WCS season 1 in retrospective is just a result of a metagame shock that gave Kespa players a fresh start and made many good esf players fell off because they couldn't get out of their WoL playstyles (MKP, DRG, Leenock, and Taeja for a few months). There is nothing inherently better about Kespa and their training system.
On August 27 2013 07:39 JP Dayne wrote: well we all pretty much already knew it but since we're doing unnoficial but sourceable news, how long is his contract, and how much will acer be paying the guy? he's pretty hot right now, I hope he made a good deal, even tho he seems to be slumping from what I've seen
Seems to be slumping?? Innovation is a pure champion - even games he plays in the earlier rounds of a tournament look good enough to be the grand finals. He juuuuust barely lost to Taeja (who was on fire this weekend!) and probably would have taken out bomber and JD quite easily if his tvtaeja had gone just a tiny bit better.
Bomber would've crushed him. He already beat him 2-0 in osl, and is like 8-2 against Taeja in HotS. He's imo the best TvT player out there currently.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure. On the other hand, INnoVation always said he prepares his builds and for tournaments in general rather alone so.... He just needs coach Calm
What ? The Kespa training regime myth is so busted at this point. JD, Taeja, Polt, First, Maru, Bomber, Scarlett, Naniwa ... how many more proofs do you need? The Kespa domination in WCS season 1 in retrospective is just a result of a metagame shock that gave Kespa players a fresh start and made many good esf players fell off because they couldn't get out of their WoL playstyles (MKP, DRG, Leenock, and Taeja for a few months). There is nothing inherently better about Kespa and their training system.
I agree with the spirit but DRG and MKP still are shadows of what they used to be. At least MC accepted his role as a quasi-personality guy to keep the money rolling, MKP and DRG just disappeared.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure. On the other hand, INnoVation always said he prepares his builds and for tournaments in general rather alone so.... He just needs coach Calm
What ? The Kespa training regime myth is so busted at this point. JD, Taeja, Polt, First, Maru, Bomber, Scarlett, Naniwa ... how many more proofs do you need? The Kespa domination in WCS season 1 in retrospective is just a result of a metagame shock that gave Kespa players a fresh start and made many good esf players fell off because they couldn't get out of their WoL playstyles (MKP, DRG, Leenock, and Taeja for a few months). There is nothing inherently better about Kespa and their training system.
I agree with the spirit but DRG and MKP still are shadows of what they used to be. At least MC accepted his role as a quasi-personality guy to keep the money rolling, MKP and DRG just disappeared.
Not entirely in the case of DRG. He was still kicking all the way until the end of WoL, and more recently in HotS he's making a small resurgence. He's even in code S atm.
On August 27 2013 07:39 JP Dayne wrote: well we all pretty much already knew it but since we're doing unnoficial but sourceable news, how long is his contract, and how much will acer be paying the guy? he's pretty hot right now, I hope he made a good deal, even tho he seems to be slumping from what I've seen
Seems to be slumping?? Innovation is a pure champion - even games he plays in the earlier rounds of a tournament look good enough to be the grand finals. He juuuuust barely lost to Taeja (who was on fire this weekend!) and probably would have taken out bomber and JD quite easily if his tvtaeja had gone just a tiny bit better.
Bomber crushed him in the OSL back when hellbats were still a thing. What makes you think Innovation could defeat him quite easily? He also defeated Taeja that defeated innovation as well.
On August 27 2013 07:39 JP Dayne wrote: well we all pretty much already knew it but since we're doing unnoficial but sourceable news, how long is his contract, and how much will acer be paying the guy? he's pretty hot right now, I hope he made a good deal, even tho he seems to be slumping from what I've seen
Seems to be slumping?? Innovation is a pure champion - even games he plays in the earlier rounds of a tournament look good enough to be the grand finals. He juuuuust barely lost to Taeja (who was on fire this weekend!) and probably would have taken out bomber and JD quite easily if his tvtaeja had gone just a tiny bit better.
Bomber crushed him in the OSL back when hellbats were still a thing. What makes you think Innovation could defeat him quite easily? He also defeated Taeja that defeated innovation as well.
The OSL game was actually played a week after the hellbat nerf. Which strengthens the point anyways, since that's the current state of Terran patch-wise.
You might have been thinking of Bomber-Flash which was played the day before the patch and was when Bomber claimed he got the dates wrong and practiced non-hellbat strats (he didn't use Hellbats in that series IIRC, so he might not have been bluffing, who knows).
The comments on the Gamestop site make me lose faith in humanity. Makes me appreciate how much better the posters on Teamliquid are compared to some other places, even at times when we get ugly (*cough* elephant in the room article *cough*).
On August 27 2013 06:57 damod wrote: EG just played against Acer in SC2L a few hours ago in a very hilarious BO7 Replacing paranoid with innovation against Oz might have brought them the win, but EG is still very strong and managed to take it 4-3 in the end. also in this tourny it does seem like EG, Acer and TL are top 3 foreign teams, with Acer being number 2 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StarCraft_2_League
i can see them being number one with innovation though
On August 27 2013 06:52 Doublemint wrote: Acer confirmed as the new EG - Stealing star players on the decline from dying entities.
Jaedong obviously on a decline
Should i remind you in what form EG got him? You could say he WAS on decline.
When they're just starting to play a new game? Come on man. Not everyone is going to be really good 6-8 months in. If anything the guy was steadily improving bit by bit.
painkilla,
The template the KeSPA is tried; tested and proven. It's not a lax environment and they know how to train players very well. This doesn't mean other players won't shine with their own regimes lol. There are plenty of players who like to do things differently which include Stephano, Scarlett, TLO, Naniwa, etc. It's funny because Scarlett said she likes training on her own and doing stuff on ladder but will ask teammates questions if need be. Yet it looks like she's really keen about practicing with Bogus so whoop, whoop. So does every player have to use the same practice routine? Not necessarily, but if it works for a lot of players and they don't mind it. Then more power to them.
On August 27 2013 08:22 Nerevar wrote: The comments on the Gamestop site make me lose faith in humanity. Makes me appreciate how much better the posters on Teamliquid are compared to some other places, even at times when we get ugly (*cough* elephant in the room article *cough*).
Try reading other forums for a good laugh and it's funny that people keep bringing up that article. They take way too much out of it. There really isn't anything like the SC2 forums on TL where people criticize everything from the viewership to players being boring to oh my god why does this audience suck? I dare you to go to any other sub section and you will hardly ever see such comments about players, viewership or anything else for that matter. Maybe one day we won't have to deal with that shit, but I don't think that day will come anytime soon. hue.
Innovation will rocket back up to the top in the major individual tournaments now that he doesn't have to play so many games in the proleague, which especially allowed a lot of players recently to prepare snipe builds to take out.
On August 27 2013 06:57 damod wrote: EG just played against Acer in SC2L a few hours ago in a very hilarious BO7 Replacing paranoid with innovation against Oz might have brought them the win, but EG is still very strong and managed to take it 4-3 in the end. also in this tourny it does seem like EG, Acer and TL are top 3 foreign teams, with Acer being number 2 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StarCraft_2_League
i can see them being number one with innovation though
On August 27 2013 06:52 Doublemint wrote: Acer confirmed as the new EG - Stealing star players on the decline from dying entities.
Jaedong obviously on a decline
Should i remind you in what form EG got him? You could say he WAS on decline.
When they're just starting to play a new game? Come on man. Not everyone is going to be really good 6-8 months in. If anything the guy was steadily improving bit by bit.
painkilla,
The template the KeSPA is tried; tested and proven. It's not a lax environment and they know how to train players very well. This doesn't mean other players won't shine with their own regimes lol. There are plenty of players who like to do things differently which include Stephano, Scarlett, TLO, Naniwa, etc. It's funny because Scarlett said she likes training on her own and doing stuff on ladder but will ask teammates questions if need be. Yet it looks like she's really keen about practicing with Bogus so whoop, whoop. So does every player have to use the same practice routine? Not necessarily, but if it works for a lot of players and they don't mind it. Then more power to them.
Painkilla isn't saying that the KeSPA training system doesn't work. He's saying that the myth that the KeSPA training system is BETTER than all others and thus allows all players under that system to be superior to players not under that system has been disproven. In his words, "there is nothing inherently better about Kespa and their training system". He's not saying that the system is bad, but just that it's not inherently better than all the other systems, and it looks like you're actually agreeing with that by saying that different training systems work for different people.
This could actually be a really good thing for Innovation (while of course it is for Acer). A break from Kespa could do wonders... he definitely seems to have been fading a bit in the last couple months. And yeah curious if he switches regions, but I doubt that, don't want to give away your automatic Premier spot in Korea, at least not this season.
Man if Acer eventually sign a decent quality Protoss player... they'd be clear #1 foreign team for me.
On August 27 2013 08:28 jonich0n wrote: This could actually be a really good thing for Innovation (while of course it is for Acer). A break from Kespa could do wonders... he definitely seems to have been fading a bit in the last couple months. And yeah curious if he switches regions, but I doubt that, don't want to give away your automatic Premier spot in Korea, at least not this season.
Man if Acer eventually sign a decent quality Protoss player... they'd be clear #1 foreign team for me.
On August 27 2013 08:28 jonich0n wrote: This could actually be a really good thing for Innovation (while of course it is for Acer). A break from Kespa could do wonders... he definitely seems to have been fading a bit in the last couple months. And yeah curious if he switches regions, but I doubt that, don't want to give away your automatic Premier spot in Korea, at least not this season.
Man if Acer eventually sign a decent quality Protoss player... they'd be clear #1 foreign team for me.
In order to attain more prize money over seas? Indeed and I think it's foolish for players not to think about branching out to Western teams that will provide them more opportunities to win more money because that's what this business is all about. Making money rather than staying in the hardest league and struggling like many other players.
Yeah, as for a "fourth player" outside of their already established first three which are great (Scarlett, MMA, Nerchio)... Innovation what a massive improvement over Bly lol. teamleague rape incoming...
On August 27 2013 08:47 jonich0n wrote: Yeah, as for a "fourth player" outside of their already established first three which are great (Scarlett, MMA, Nerchio)... Innovation what a massive improvement over Bly lol. teamleague rape incoming...
I'd say they need a few more players before saying such a thing. Still a decent line-up.
WHAAAAATT? I didn't see this one coming at all. STX to disband/lose their sponsor? IDK how you can win proleague, but not be able to afford Innovation.
On August 27 2013 08:52 Havik_ wrote: WHAAAAATT? I didn't see this one coming at all. STX to disband/lose their sponsor? IDK how you can win proleague, but not be able to afford Innovation.
They lost their sponsor, the STX team has been disbanded for a few weeks to a month(not sure on exact time frame).
So let me tell you what you have to read here, because if you're not french, you arent getting the key information.
Anyone not french : Acer is getting Innovation, wow, cool ! Now they just need a good protoss !
Any french guy : Pomf & Thud want Innovation really bad for the next Iron Squid, and they get him as Kaoru (Acer's manager) is one of the most important personn of the Ogaming Crew and one of the most influent figure in France. P&T know it would have been too hard to get Innovation directly from the Kespa because of the barrier of language and the barbed wire Kespa put around their players.
On August 27 2013 08:56 KingMel wrote: So let me tell you what you have to read here, because if you're not french, you arent getting the key information.
Anyone not french : Acer is getting Innovation, wow, cool ! Now they just need a good protoss !
Any french guy : Pomf & Thud want Innovation really bad for the next Iron Squid, and they get him as Kaoru (Acer's manager) is one of the most important personn of the Ogaming Crew and one of the most influent figure in France. P&T know it would have been too hard to get Innovation directly from the Kespa because of the barrier of language and the barbed wire Kespa put around their players.
More lazy Slasher journalism. Another article with nothing more compelling than "sources say" appended to what everyone already thought (Or at least, thought if they had any sense about them to decipher the obvious hints).
I don't like the way Slasher seems to write these articles on a whim and simply reiterate extant rumours. No doubt he does actually have sources that will tell him stuff, but why is he never able to articulate what he's learned and combine it with intelligent analysis of the extant situation or previous situation?
A valid and hard-working journalist would have written an article that didn't just state things already said in public by other sources, but actually cross referenced them and formed a new conclusion or an affirmed conclusion out of them.
For example, the evidence from the hints alone given via Scarlett and AcerEsports twitter, would have gleaned the following once the teaser tweets were out:
What We Know So Far:
1 - They're getting a new player
2 - Knocked out before the RO8 in WCS Finals. - This leaves MC, Welmu, Grubby, Polt, duckdeok, INnoVation, Maru, or MMA.
3 - Can't be MMA, since he's already on Acer.
4 - New Player is Terran. This leaves Maru, Polt, or Innovation.
5 - This image shows the new player's silhouette with the other players on the team - It can't be Maru, since he's nowhere near as tall as the person in the photo. This leaves Polt or INnoVation. - This holds true even if the photo is photoshopped, as Maru's height is a very obvious tell, whereas people may be lenient with Polt or Innovation's height.
6 - The link says the players team wishes to keep things secret until such time as the player actually switches from one team to the other - this eliminates Polt, as he recieves a personal sponsorship, rather than being on a team contract. This leaves one possible conclusion
The new Acer player is INnoVation.
He could have pulled this together in his article by pointing out that his sources confirmed a player that fit with all the available teaser evidence. He could even have qualified the situation's parallel to earlier signings by other teams where the new player was hinted at significantly before the actual announcement, or other teams parodical approach to such, for example EG's willingness to play to the crowd with the signing video about EG Stephano.
Slasher did none of this, and as a result his entire article could have been shortened to "Someone told me Innovation is the new Acer player - By the way, STX seem unhappy that Acer have been teasing this so heavily before the transfer took place, and btw neither team would actually talk to me before I wrote this article".
Then he has the balls to post it both on gamespot, here, and on r/starcraft, with a title that suggests he obtained an outright, public confirmation, rather than his anonymous "source".
I don't doubt he's correct, but simply being correct about something this obvious doesn't make someone a good journalist.
Not to mention, isn't Slasher's job to write for gamespot and thus drive exposure to their website and articles? I respect that he's (Finally) linked their site from his r/starcraft and teamliquid posts, but can I suggest this is some small concession to the fact that in the past he has submitted many of his news stories to reddit via the medium of a direct twitter link, thereby driving zero traffic to the website that ostensibly pays his bills?
Slasher, shape up, you and others besides, know that right now, you're relying on article titles much more than actual content, to drive people to read your articles, be they gamespot or anywhere else.
Interesting, i would not have guessed this at all actually .... acer must be making him an offer he can't refuse, but also surprised stx can't match it.
This feels weird...Acer.Innovation just doesn't sound as solid as STX_Innovation. Oh well, him and Scarlett should make excellent practice parters, further improving each of their strongest matchups.
i dont believe this for some reason, especially considering acer nor stx said anything about this. I'd imagine innovation would want to play in proleague, and sign with a proleague team
damn...i earlier said (when we learned that 1 of the eSF teams was disbanding [now proven to be NSH]) that we would either have EG Jjakji, ST INnoVation or Liquid'MarineKing, I am now wrong on the former 2, does this prove MarineKing will soon no longer be a prime?
Also, if HuK, Rain or PartinG joins Acer I will have to quit my allegience to EG for Acer (with Scarlett and INnoVation already how can you blame me?)
IMO it is a good choice. A lot of the korean players really want to travel and play in the foreign tournaments. I mean look at JD. EG flies him all over the place. I think it is much more rewarding to look back on a career and think of all the places you went and the different fans you get to meet etc.
I wonder how much this will impact on the output of both teams. If STXsouls will do any better or worse, and how much Acer players may or may not improve... I mean, other players in STX will have more opportunities to play, to show and also be more responsible for where the team stood on PL, and on the other hand, Acer seems to be pretty balance to some point, and now I wonder how this will affect to mainly the other big players Acer has... like if INnoVation will be traveling a lot more to other tournaments, and how much less players like MMA or Scarlett will be attending those since INnoVation may take away some of the lights from them...
Either way, I'll miss seeing INnoVation in the light-blue/Black shirts and jacket combos, and now into the white/green of Acers...
On August 27 2013 10:26 jiberish wrote: IMO it is a good choice. A lot of the korean players really want to travel and play in the foreign tournaments. I mean look at JD. EG flies him all over the place. I think it is much more rewarding to look back on a career and think of all the places you went and the different fans you get to meet etc.
Exactly. That's the crazy thing about Innovation. This Season 2 Finals was the FIRST Premier tournament that Innovation attended in HotS where he did not get top 4. Every single tournament he has attended otherwise he has gotten top 4 or better.
3rd place MLG Dallas 2nd place WCS Korea Season 1 (GSL) 1st place WCS Season 1 Finals 3rd/4th place WCS Korea Season 2 (OSL) 3rd Place WCG Korean Qualifiers (ok, not the main event or technically a Premier tournament, but definitely harder than most foreign Premier tournaments)
In order to be successful, a player needs 2 things: 1. Skill 2. Opportunities
Now there is no question Innovation has skill. But that alone is not always enough. You have plenty of players who are really good, but never have the opportunity to leave Korea to compete. That's why EG-TL have been doing so well. They have decent players (not the best, but solid players), and they send them everywhere. When's the last time we had a foreign tournament where these two teams weren't represented?
By joining a foreign team, Innovation now has both the skill, AND the opportunities to compete in more tournaments other than WCS. This could be huge for his career.
On August 27 2013 10:26 jiberish wrote: IMO it is a good choice. A lot of the korean players really want to travel and play in the foreign tournaments. I mean look at JD. EG flies him all over the place. I think it is much more rewarding to look back on a career and think of all the places you went and the different fans you get to meet etc.
Exactly. That's the crazy thing about Innovation. This Season 2 Finals was the FIRST Premier tournament that Innovation attended in HotS where he did not get top 4. Every single tournament he has attended otherwise he has gotten top 4 or better.
3rd place MLG Dallas 2nd place WCS Korea Season 1 (GSL) 1st place WCS Season 1 Finals 3rd/4th place WCS Korea Season 2 (OSL) 3rd Place WCG Korean Qualifiers (ok, not the main event or technically a Premier tournament, but definitely harder than most foreign Premier tournaments)
In order to be successful, a player needs 2 things: 1. Skill 2. Opportunities
Now there is no question Innovation has skill. But that alone is not always enough. You have plenty of players who are really good, but never have the opportunity to leave Korea to compete. That's why EG-TL have been doing so well. They have decent players (not the best, but solid players), and they send them everywhere. When's the last time we had a foreign tournament where these two teams weren't represented?
By joining a foreign team, Innovation now has both the skill, AND the opportunities to compete in more tournaments other than WCS. This could be huge for his career.
And 1st in the IEM shanghai Korea qualifier. And winning his team proleague.. Pretty funny that people say he's in a massive slump and he's going down... Those results are almost unprecedented (MVP, Life, maybe a few others). I'm certain he will bounce back and be clutch as fuck.
Startale: Bomber Life Curious Avenge and Hack (?) MVP: Super, DongRaeGu, Keen, Dream, Duckdeok AxA: Scarlett INnoVation Alicia MMA Ryung IM: Squirtle Mvp First, YongHwa, MC
who wins? more importantly if INnoVation gets back into form, who beats him? Ryung? they are on the same team, so, who else?
Bomber has, can and will beat INnoVation in the future. Also Scarlett, Life (if he returns to form, I'm sure he will) and MVP always has a good chance against anyone.
Sigh he is gonna look so stupid with that green Acer shirt on I do like the team more than any other foreigner team aside from TL, but that uniform is rank.
MMA went from looking like a killer in his SlayerS jacket, to some kid that just got home from an academic/spelling tournament.
On August 27 2013 10:26 jiberish wrote: IMO it is a good choice. A lot of the korean players really want to travel and play in the foreign tournaments. I mean look at JD. EG flies him all over the place. I think it is much more rewarding to look back on a career and think of all the places you went and the different fans you get to meet etc.
Exactly. That's the crazy thing about Innovation. This Season 2 Finals was the FIRST Premier tournament that Innovation attended in HotS where he did not get top 4. Every single tournament he has attended otherwise he has gotten top 4 or better.
3rd place MLG Dallas 2nd place WCS Korea Season 1 (GSL) 1st place WCS Season 1 Finals 3rd/4th place WCS Korea Season 2 (OSL) 3rd Place WCG Korean Qualifiers (ok, not the main event or technically a Premier tournament, but definitely harder than most foreign Premier tournaments)
In order to be successful, a player needs 2 things: 1. Skill 2. Opportunities
Now there is no question Innovation has skill. But that alone is not always enough. You have plenty of players who are really good, but never have the opportunity to leave Korea to compete. That's why EG-TL have been doing so well. They have decent players (not the best, but solid players), and they send them everywhere. When's the last time we had a foreign tournament where these two teams weren't represented?
By joining a foreign team, Innovation now has both the skill, AND the opportunities to compete in more tournaments other than WCS. This could be huge for his career.
And 1st in the IEM shanghai Korea qualifier. And winning his team proleague.. Pretty funny that people say he's in a massive slump and he's going down... Those results are almost unprecedented (MVP, Life, maybe a few others). I'm certain he will bounce back and be clutch as fuck.
I certainly hope so. I've grown to love Innovation as a player. He tries to be as stoic as possible, but I'd say he's actually a pretty emotional player. 3 times now we've seen him choke and go 0-4 (GSL finals vs Soulkey, OSL semis vs Maru, and WCS Season 2 vs Taeja and Naniwa).
Innovation is in a "slump" because he isn't winning every single tournament he enters like people expect him to :p
On August 27 2013 10:26 jiberish wrote: IMO it is a good choice. A lot of the korean players really want to travel and play in the foreign tournaments. I mean look at JD. EG flies him all over the place. I think it is much more rewarding to look back on a career and think of all the places you went and the different fans you get to meet etc.
Exactly. That's the crazy thing about Innovation. This Season 2 Finals was the FIRST Premier tournament that Innovation attended in HotS where he did not get top 4. Every single tournament he has attended otherwise he has gotten top 4 or better.
3rd place MLG Dallas 2nd place WCS Korea Season 1 (GSL) 1st place WCS Season 1 Finals 3rd/4th place WCS Korea Season 2 (OSL) 3rd Place WCG Korean Qualifiers (ok, not the main event or technically a Premier tournament, but definitely harder than most foreign Premier tournaments)
In order to be successful, a player needs 2 things: 1. Skill 2. Opportunities
Now there is no question Innovation has skill. But that alone is not always enough. You have plenty of players who are really good, but never have the opportunity to leave Korea to compete. That's why EG-TL have been doing so well. They have decent players (not the best, but solid players), and they send them everywhere. When's the last time we had a foreign tournament where these two teams weren't represented?
By joining a foreign team, Innovation now has both the skill, AND the opportunities to compete in more tournaments other than WCS. This could be huge for his career.
Only if player like Bisu Stork got these chance. They might be back in shape in no time, just might. Bonding to PL is killing their enthusiasm, although it is well-payed.
On August 27 2013 11:05 skatblast wrote: innovation has peaked long ago and is on a downfall
OSL Ro4, WCG Korea 3rd Place
If a foreigner were to get those same results (I know, technically impossible with WCG Korea, but bear with me), they would be called the best foreigner ever in SC2. That's how high Innovation has set the bar for himself.
On August 27 2013 10:32 Zethiel wrote: I wonder how much this will impact on the output of both teams. If STXsouls will do any better or worse, and how much Acer players may or may not improve... I mean, other players in STX will have more opportunities to play, to show and also be more responsible for where the team stood on PL, and on the other hand, Acer seems to be pretty balance to some point, and now I wonder how this will affect to mainly the other big players Acer has... like if INnoVation will be traveling a lot more to other tournaments, and how much less players like MMA or Scarlett will be attending those since INnoVation may take away some of the lights from them...
Either way, I'll miss seeing INnoVation in the light-blue/Black shirts and jacket combos, and now into the white/green of Acers...
Sadly, STX soul is disbanding in no time. The other players all need to find new home.
I have no idea why Innovation is doing this. Not that Acer is a bad team, not by a longshot, but why leave the KeSPA team that pretty much created him and molded him into what he is today?
On August 27 2013 11:29 docvoc wrote: I have no idea why Innovation is doing this. Not that Acer is a bad team, not by a longshot, but why leave the KeSPA team that pretty much created him and molded him into what he is today?
On August 27 2013 11:29 docvoc wrote: I have no idea why Innovation is doing this. Not that Acer is a bad team, not by a longshot, but why leave the KeSPA team that pretty much created him and molded him into what he is today?
Because there is a good chance they'll fold and he might end up under Kespa's control(team 8 kinda team I mean) and maybe he doesn't want that. Also, the lure of competing at foreign tourneys for potentially easier money and easier wcs points meaning he has a better chance of reaching WCS finals while traveling a lot. I think he's an amazing pickup for acer. Scarlett gets better and Innovation can practice TvT with MMA. His TvP needs some work as well but I saw TvT first lol.
The template the KeSPA is tried; tested and proven. It's not a lax environment and they know how to train players very well. This doesn't mean other players won't shine with their own regimes lol. There are plenty of players who like to do things differently which include Stephano, Scarlett, TLO, Naniwa, etc. It's funny because Scarlett said she likes training on her own and doing stuff on ladder but will ask teammates questions if need be. Yet it looks like she's really keen about practicing with Bogus so whoop, whoop. So does every player have to use the same practice routine? Not necessarily, but if it works for a lot of players and they don't mind it. Then more power to them.
Painkilla isn't saying that the KeSPA training system doesn't work. He's saying that the myth that the KeSPA training system is BETTER than all others and thus allows all players under that system to be superior to players not under that system has been disproven. In his words, "there is nothing inherently better about Kespa and their training system". He's not saying that the system is bad, but just that it's not inherently better than all the other systems, and it looks like you're actually agreeing with that by saying that different training systems work for different people.
he's got zero evidence, he's a hardcore kespa hater in the end. Who's winning is irrelevant, talent weights too much.
Really hope Innovation continues to tear it up. I want him to cement his legacy with more championships. And I don't want SC2 to be so volatile that it has a new champion every month lol.
money > results for bogus? i'm not saying acer is bad, but i highly doubt his practice will be nearly as hardcore. might be cool to see him at more foreign events though. best of luck to him
There are so many of them (bigots, racists, xenophobes) in the gaming world, which is what happens when a lot of immature people or teenagers come together. It's something we can't really do much about. So just ignore them and read the comments worth reading, like with every other forum or BB.
On August 27 2013 12:06 Mortal wrote: money > results for bogus? i'm not saying acer is bad, but i highly doubt his practice will be nearly as hardcore. might be cool to see him at more foreign events though. best of luck to him
He will have better results (and money) by winning more foreign tournaments.
On August 27 2013 10:51 Mattumsfox wrote: Reading Gamespot really makes you realize that sc2 actually has one of the best communities in gaming.
I should not have read these comments... remind me how people can be mean sometimes
wow the second comment... jesus the amount of ignorance and assholery is astounding...
I thought this was going to be a comment about how Innovation is actually a Terminator, but it took a turn for the worse.
I assume that guy just went on a massive loss spree in sc2 and is very angry right now....or something.
Anyways, the highest rated comment under that article is...
"The fact, that none of you watch eSports, doesn't mean this isn't important. Innovation is currently considered the best Terran and probably the best SC2 player in the world.
I for one am impressed with Acer. They have a very strong lineup. It was a goddamn shame Bomber beat Scarlett in the WCS S2 Finals, she really was looking like she could have won.
Anyway, great news for Team Acer! "
Congrats to Innovation and Acer, he is an amazing player and he deserves such a great sponsor.
I am not sure what to think of this. On one hand this is great news for the foreign scene and Acer fans, but on the other hand this is terrible news for the Korean scene and Korean Starcraft esport as a whole. The fact that both the current top GSTL team and the top ProLeague team are facing sponsorship problems is worrying.
People are concerned about STX Soul as a team, but... if their sponsor pulls out, couldn't Kespa just break out the Team 8 uniforms again, now that Jin Air is a sponsor?
On August 27 2013 13:55 felisconcolori wrote: People are concerned about STX Soul as a team, but... if their sponsor pulls out, couldn't Kespa just break out the Team 8 uniforms again, now that Jin Air is a sponsor?
Like I said before, Team 7 incoming (there aren't 8 KeSPA teams anymore, for one thing...)
" but I have requested comment on both Innovation's contract with STX in relation to Acer's signing, as well as the proposed financial problems of STX Soul."
acting like STX or Kespa knows and cares who you are.
On August 27 2013 12:06 Mortal wrote: money > results for bogus? i'm not saying acer is bad, but i highly doubt his practice will be nearly as hardcore. might be cool to see him at more foreign events though. best of luck to him
Possibly best foreigner is on acer. They must not know how to train..
On August 27 2013 14:17 NoGasfOu wrote: " but I have requested comment on both Innovation's contract with STX in relation to Acer's signing, as well as the proposed financial problems of STX Soul."
acting like STX or Kespa knows and cares who you are.
this ten times.
Thank you Acer! This Team/Company seems to be the ONLY Team that still spends money on building up. So many nice interviews on their page...a big sc2 section...so many great players in a lot of events.
On August 27 2013 14:17 NoGasfOu wrote: " but I have requested comment on both Innovation's contract with STX in relation to Acer's signing, as well as the proposed financial problems of STX Soul."
acting like STX or Kespa knows and cares who you are.
this ten times.
Thank you Acer! This Team/Company seems to be the ONLY Team that still spends money on building up. So many nice interviews on their page...a big sc2 section...so many great players in a lot of events.
Yeah, while that is probably true. I think he's doing something like that for the sake of being an eSportS jOurnalisT who has integrity and follows through with every lead.
On August 27 2013 14:17 NoGasfOu wrote: " but I have requested comment on both Innovation's contract with STX in relation to Acer's signing, as well as the proposed financial problems of STX Soul."
acting like STX or Kespa knows and cares who you are.
this ten times.
Thank you Acer! This Team/Company seems to be the ONLY Team that still spends money on building up. So many nice interviews on their page...a big sc2 section...so many great players in a lot of events.
Yeah, while that is probably true. I think he's doing something like that for the sake of being an eSportS jOurnalisT who has integrity and follows through with every lead.
Esports Journalist...most of the time i see him making predictions about something...scnr
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure. On the other hand, INnoVation always said he prepares his builds and for tournaments in general rather alone so.... He just needs coach Calm
Maybe Jaedong would be better now but we wouldn't know it as the KeSPA teams barely send their players at foreign events.
I don't understand how Jaedong wouldn't have been able to know how good he really is because he didn't go to foreign events. That makes no sense.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
There is zero proof to support that claim.
It is more something you believe than something you can prove.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
There is zero proof to support that claim.
It is more something you believe than something you can prove.
On August 27 2013 15:25 Porishan wrote: Strange that YoungHun Ahn ( thisisgame eSport journalist ) hasn't tweet or leak any little piece of this huge news :o
I don't think he's ever released an article before something was officially announced? Also he was at Gamescom and just landed home in Korea earlier today.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
There is zero proof to support that claim.
Look at how quickly he improved under coach park/in the EGTL house compared to before then.
Now imagine he had that whole system set up all along, and in a team that could actually afford nice things.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
There is zero proof to support that claim.
It is more something you believe than something you can prove.
Because Bisu has improved so much.
Because all players are supposed to get good at something new to them regardless with hard work, right? Come on man. You could say the same thing with regards to a lot of players. SC2 isn't for everybody and we all know how stubborn players can be.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
There is zero proof to support that claim.
It is more something you believe than something you can prove.
Because Bisu has improved so much.
lol are you suggesting Bisu would be doing better than he is now if he was on Acer or EG?
On August 27 2013 15:25 Porishan wrote: Strange that YoungHun Ahn ( thisisgame eSport journalist ) hasn't tweet or leak any little piece of this huge news :o
I don't think he's ever released an article before something was officially announced? Also he was at Gamescom and just landed home in Korea earlier today.
Last time he released about an eSF team going to disband ( it was NSH ) before it's officially announced
On August 27 2013 15:25 Porishan wrote: Strange that YoungHun Ahn ( thisisgame eSport journalist ) hasn't tweet or leak any little piece of this huge news :o
I don't think he's ever released an article before something was officially announced? Also he was at Gamescom and just landed home in Korea earlier today.
Last time he released about an eSF team going to disband ( it was NSH ) before it's officially announced
somethings got to give, you cant go from a pure training environment to what seems to me a "whenever you like" mentality. i mean nerchio, scarlett mma are very good players and acer i think are slowly becoming an allstar teanm but iNno is something else . . i hope we see just further improvements.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
There is zero proof to support that claim.
It is more something you believe than something you can prove.
Because Bisu has improved so much.
lol are you suggesting Bisu would be doing better than he is now if he was on Acer or EG?
lmao
It is certainly possible. This is all about confidence. Players like Bisu & Jaedong are highly skilled, but they have lost confidence badly since SC2 came because suddenly everyone beat them. Thus they need to start fresh. A harsh, slavery training system that keeps reminding them everyday that their past glory has gone isn't going to help. Whereas even just a high placing in a small foreign tournament can do wonder to their confidence & motivation, and I think that's what happened to JD.
Innovation doesn't need to be Korea's best. He can go hang out in the Acer German house next year, get top four every season in WCS Europe, get points from going to every Tier 1 WCS Tournament, and make Blizzcon comfortably. His skill might decrease somewhat, but he'll still be good enough to have a shot at top four at any tournament Acer sends him to.
A year ago this could be called a dumb move because GSL was having a $50,000 first place tournament every other month and it looked like OSL was going to follow suit with three tournaments a year with a high prize pool. Now? WCS America, Europe and Korea all pay out the same. You have three major Korean tournaments a year, all paying out $20,000 for you winning.
The whole goal in the new Starcraft 2 scene is to get enough points, make it to Blizzcon, and battle for the huge prize money. On a foreign team, he can pick whatever the fuck region he wants in '14, go to any foreign tournament he wants, and easily make Blizzcon instead of having to worry about rookies like Sora or Bunny coming up in Korea. While if he stayed in the KeSPA circle, joined KT or SKT, and stayed in WCS Korea, he'd still be a favorite to make top eight every season, with the level of competition and how new players are coming out of the woodwork, there are no easy groups in the GSL/OSL.
Seems like a logical, smart decision. KeSPA might have been able to pay more per contract, but he'll make more through traveling and getting to play in tournaments without worrying about Proleague every week. It sucks for people who want to see Innovation continue to evolve into a Flash-type player who can dominate tournament after tournament, but with how the current WCS is set up, tying himself to a KeSPA team and Proleague just doesn't seem like the wisest decision.
Look at Jaedong. Yeah, he probably could be another level higher if he stayed on the Jin Air Green Wings or went to SKT/KT, but there are no guarantees being another level better would get him through the WCS Korea region. On EG, he gets to play in an easier region, go to every single foreign tournament he wants, and rake in more money than Innovation has. I've always been behind the notion that the best players having to play in Korea in the best tournaments, but with Blizzard wanting to make the scene truly global and equal, Innovation made the smart career choice. Maybe not the best one for the ceiling of talent, but the right choice for his future.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
There is zero proof to support that claim.
Look at how quickly he improved under coach park/in the EGTL house compared to before then.
Now imagine he had that whole system set up all along, and in a team that could actually afford nice things.
When you say a "team that could actually afford nice things" you're still talking about Team 8 right? Once-upon-a-time-sponsorless-Team8-help-up-by-Kespa-funding Team 8? Maybe you're imagining him in a better funded team?
Point still 100% true. There are lots of players that have gone to foreign teams and gotten better. There are a large number that have gone from foreign to full time and gotten worse. Like the only thing that affects skill is your logo.
On August 27 2013 16:27 Fionn wrote: Why are people talking about skill.
Innovation doesn't need to be Korea's best. He can go hang out in the Acer German house next year, get top four every season in WCS Europe, get points from going to every Tier 1 WCS Tournament, and make Blizzcon comfortably. His skill might decrease somewhat, but he'll still be good enough to have a shot at top four at any tournament Acer sends him to.
A year ago this could be called a dumb move because GSL was having a $50,000 first place tournament every other month and it looked like OSL was going to follow suit with three tournaments a year with a high prize pool. Now? WCS America, Europe and Korea all pay out the same. You have three major Korean tournaments a year, all paying out $20,000 for you winning.
The whole goal in the new Starcraft 2 scene is to get enough points, make it to Blizzcon, and battle for the huge prize money. On a foreign team, he can pick whatever the fuck region he wants in '14, go to any foreign tournament he wants, and easily make Blizzcon instead of having to worry about rookies like Sora or Bunny coming up in Korea. While if he stayed in the KeSPA circle, joined KT or SKT, and stayed in WCS Korea, he'd still be a favorite to make top eight every season, with the level of competition and how new players are coming out of the woodwork, there are no easy groups in the GSL/OSL.
Seems like a logical, smart decision. KeSPA might have been able to pay more per contract, but he'll make more through traveling and getting to play in tournaments without worrying about Proleague every week. It sucks for people who want to see Innovation continue to evolve into a Flash-type player who can dominate tournament after tournament, but with how the current WCS is set up, tying himself to a KeSPA team and Proleague just doesn't seem like the wisest decision.
Look at Jaedong. Yeah, he probably could be another level higher if he stayed on the Jin Air Green Wings or went to SKT/KT, but there are no guarantees being another level better would get him through the WCS Korea region. On EG, he gets to play in an easier region, go to every single foreign tournament he wants, and rake in more money than Innovation has. I've always been behind the notion that the best players having to play in Korea in the best tournaments, but with Blizzard wanting to make the scene truly global and equal, Innovation made the smart career choice. Maybe not the best one for the ceiling of talent, but the right choice for his future.
And that's why Mvp is the smartest Terran of all time. First Kespa pro to switch to SC2 and dominate, first to switch to WCS EU (after doing just enough to win Nestea award) and won the very soft WCS EU Season 1, probably secure enough WCS points for Blizzcon already.
While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
On August 27 2013 16:27 Fionn wrote: Why are people talking about skill.
Innovation doesn't need to be Korea's best. He can go hang out in the Acer German house next year, get top four every season in WCS Europe, get points from going to every Tier 1 WCS Tournament, and make Blizzcon comfortably. His skill might decrease somewhat, but he'll still be good enough to have a shot at top four at any tournament Acer sends him to.
A year ago this could be called a dumb move because GSL was having a $50,000 first place tournament every other month and it looked like OSL was going to follow suit with three tournaments a year with a high prize pool. Now? WCS America, Europe and Korea all pay out the same. You have three major Korean tournaments a year, all paying out $20,000 for you winning.
The whole goal in the new Starcraft 2 scene is to get enough points, make it to Blizzcon, and battle for the huge prize money. On a foreign team, he can pick whatever the fuck region he wants in '14, go to any foreign tournament he wants, and easily make Blizzcon instead of having to worry about rookies like Sora or Bunny coming up in Korea. While if he stayed in the KeSPA circle, joined KT or SKT, and stayed in WCS Korea, he'd still be a favorite to make top eight every season, with the level of competition and how new players are coming out of the woodwork, there are no easy groups in the GSL/OSL.
Seems like a logical, smart decision. KeSPA might have been able to pay more per contract, but he'll make more through traveling and getting to play in tournaments without worrying about Proleague every week. It sucks for people who want to see Innovation continue to evolve into a Flash-type player who can dominate tournament after tournament, but with how the current WCS is set up, tying himself to a KeSPA team and Proleague just doesn't seem like the wisest decision.
Look at Jaedong. Yeah, he probably could be another level higher if he stayed on the Jin Air Green Wings or went to SKT/KT, but there are no guarantees being another level better would get him through the WCS Korea region. On EG, he gets to play in an easier region, go to every single foreign tournament he wants, and rake in more money than Innovation has. I've always been behind the notion that the best players having to play in Korea in the best tournaments, but with Blizzard wanting to make the scene truly global and equal, Innovation made the smart career choice. Maybe not the best one for the ceiling of talent, but the right choice for his future.
And that's why Mvp is the smartest Terran of all time. First Kespa pro to switch to SC2 and dominate, first to switch to WCS EU (after doing just enough to win Nestea award) and won the very soft WCS EU Season 1, probably secure enough WCS points for Blizzcon already.
Concluded and translated a short interview with Innovation last night, here is a small preview:
"Many people are excited that you are going to be playing for Acer from now on and maybe we will see you in a lot more international tournaments. Got anything to say anything to say about that?"
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
How do you know, there won't be some form of region lock in 2014?
Also I don't see how people can argue Jaedong would be better now if he was on Team8 still. He had the same traning regime as kespa players in the EG-TL house in korea under coach park and improved way faster than most Kespa players in the past 4 months. And that's because of the additional (foreign) tournament experience he got by being on EG imo. Playing in other tournaments than PL or WCS KR every month and reaching the finals every time brought him on another level. I don't think that would've happened with Kespa.
On August 27 2013 07:21 iamho wrote: IMO a pretty poor decision by Bogus to join a foreign team. The nice paycheck he will get in the short run will not make up for a long-run decline in skill. Unless he is already planning to retire after his next contract ends.
Yeah look how much Jaedong's skill has declined since he joined EG, what a bad decision it was for him!
Jaedong would most likley be a much better player by now, if he would have stayed in a kespa team thats for sure.
There is zero proof to support that claim.
Look at how quickly he improved under coach park/in the EGTL house compared to before then.
Now imagine he had that whole system set up all along, and in a team that could actually afford nice things.
When you say a "team that could actually afford nice things" you're still talking about Team 8 right? Once-upon-a-time-sponsorless-Team8-help-up-by-Kespa-funding Team 8? Maybe you're imagining him in a better funded team?
Point still 100% true. There are lots of players that have gone to foreign teams and gotten better. There are a large number that have gone from foreign to full time and gotten worse. Like the only thing that affects skill is your logo.
Or maybe when he says a "team that could actually afford nice things" he's talking about Oz, Jaedong's original team and the one he was on during his prime (and most of his career). I mean let's be honest, Team 8 for the most part performed pretty poorly. And Jaedong himself performed pretty poorly while on Team 8, which goes to show that just having a teamhouse and coaches isn't the be all end all of things, although at first glance it may seem like it.
But yeah I think a lot of people underestimate EG. I'm not sure what exactly they're doing or how long they can keep it up (what with Coach Park leaving and whatnot) but for the time being they're doing really really well.
Most of korean in korean scene say he had decided to move to Acer for the money. Since foreign teams are more advantageous for participating in many of overseas competitions, and it is easy to earn the money much more than KESPA Team. Acer would certainly guarantees participation to the overseas competition at the stage of negotiations.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
How do you know, there won't be some form of region lock in 2014?
Also I don't see how people can argue Jaedong would be better now if he was on Team8 still. He had the same traning regime as kespa players in the EG-TL house in korea under coach park and improved way faster than most Kespa players in the past 4 months. And that's because of the additional (foreign) tournament experience he got by being on EG imo. Playing in other tournaments than PL or WCS KR every month and reaching the finals every time brought him on another level. I don't think that would've happened with Kespa.
If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
And that is the reason why a region lock of WCS would be a pretty good thing.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate.
Oh well, yes. You have a point there. But can't it be dependant on the nationality? I'm pretty sure that a korean who merely speaks english will get the german "Staatsbürgerschaft" that easily.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
And that is the reason why a region lock of WCS would be a pretty good thing.
With Blizzard's near-monopoly of individual tournaments in Korea, no it would not be.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
And that is the reason why a region lock of WCS would be a pretty good thing.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate.
Oh well, yes. You have a point there. But can't it be dependant on the nationality? I'm pretty sure that a korean who merely speaks english will get the german "Staatsbürgerschaft" that easily.
Why would it be nationality based, that's basically saying fuck you if you want to live outside the region/country you were born in and still play sc2.
The whole point of non-region locking was so elite Koreans could go to the other two regions, stay there, and level up the foreigners in said region by practicing on that ladder, joining teams in that region, and living there. That fell apart when they let people from Korea come down to a specific region for six days a tournament and then fly back to Korea, but if they made it so you had to live in that region throughout the year or be there for every offline portion of the tournament, you might actually see what Blizzard dreamed of come true. If you have Innovation and others on the European ladder, living there and actually integrating with the other GM's in Europe, you could see some changes.
Now it's pretty much a joke. Mvp can fly down for two weekends, say he's European, beat up the actual Europeans, and then go back to Korea. Hopefully with the Acer house opening up in Germany, we see Innovation and MMA move full-time to Europe and practice there.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
How do you know, there won't be some form of region lock in 2014?
Also I don't see how people can argue Jaedong would be better now if he was on Team8 still. He had the same traning regime as kespa players in the EG-TL house in korea under coach park and improved way faster than most Kespa players in the past 4 months. And that's because of the additional (foreign) tournament experience he got by being on EG imo. Playing in other tournaments than PL or WCS KR every month and reaching the finals every time brought him on another level. I don't think that would've happened with Kespa.
If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate.
That's true, Inno doesn't strike me as someone that would truly move to Germany long term though. Also Acer will be focusing more on Korea in the future. Scarlett said they'll play GSTL and any future player for Acer will most likely be korean. We'll see what happens if there is a region lock I guess. Otherwise they can play GSTL and WCS KR/AM just like this year.
Being a Korean-tournament kind of guy though, I have be disappointed. Most likely no more Proleague for him, and a lot fewer clashes with Flash. Losing him from the GSL is a big let down.
I still hope he does well in WCS EU (assuming he moves there).
On August 27 2013 16:52 Fionn wrote: The whole point of non-region locking was so elite Koreans could go to the other two regions, stay there, and level up the foreigners in said region by practicing on that ladder, joining teams in that region, and living there. That fell apart when they let people from Korea come down to a specific region for six days a tournament and then fly back to Korea, but if they made it so you had to live in that region throughout the year or be there for every offline portion of the tournament, you might actually see what Blizzard dreamed of come true. If you have Innovation and others on the European ladder, living there and actually integrating with the other GM's in Europe, you could see some changes.
Now it's pretty much a joke. Mvp can fly down for two weekends, say he's European, beat up the actual Europeans, and then go back to Korea. Hopefully with the Acer house opening up in Germany, we see Innovation and MMA move full-time to Europe and practice there.
Except that Koreans can's stay long term in NA/EU because esport is not a legitimate career as far as immigration policy is concerned. The way I see it Korea has enough talents to saturate all three regions so that we have equal and top level competition everywhere. More Koreans would join foreign teams and that would benefit foreign progamers. No need to region lock. If a fan wants to cheer for a true foreigner, they can cheer for him in challenger league.
This is the nail in the coffin for stx. Really sad to see them go. I really want to know where the rest of the stx-players will ens up now. Dear, trap and mini in particular. Would seem like nice pickups for any team. Wrong thread, i know, but my heart is almost broken. I hope they find a way. Good luck to you bogus!!!
Im really happy of this move. We will start seeing more Innovation in foreign tournaments as well. I'm also wondering the situation between MMA-Innovation, now they have two high level Korean terran players. If they start training together in the team house, that might bring us pretty good results from both of them. Of course I'm sure their training has been really good already, especially Innovation's in a Kespa team. But as a MMA fan I'm waiting to see if Innovation could somehow fire up the old MMA.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
And that is the reason why a region lock of WCS would be a pretty good thing.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: If they region lock, he can just live in the Acer team house in Germany. They can't make it a true region lock, seeing as there are players like Polt who actually live in a region and can't compete in Korea. If anything, they'll just make it so every round is offline, meaning players will need to live in that region to participate.
Oh well, yes. You have a point there. But can't it be dependant on the nationality? I'm pretty sure that a korean who merely speaks english will get the german "Staatsbürgerschaft" that easily.
I would never have managed to guess a trade like this. It will be fun to see how he develops under Acer. Also if Scarlett scores some practice time with him, her ZvT would be unstoppable.
Even though Acer, and more importantly MMA, will benefit from this, I really want to see INnoVation stay in Proleague. By far my Favorite tournament to watch. Besides WCS Season Finals
On August 27 2013 04:56 Duggibobo wrote: Acer is all of a sudden the best foreign team
I don't see how this is surprising. Given Scarlett's results and capabilities, MMA's MMA-ness, and now the addition of Innovation, Acer now has not only talent but also dedication... all three have trained rigorously in Korea. Scarlett shows the US and NA what they need to compete with their own home-grown heroes: Hours.
And talent, yes, but hours is a MAJOR consideration in this game. I believe Idra said it on Real Talk (with itmeJP) and it was couple a few days / weeks ago with Episode 100 of SotG.
Unfortunately, I've never picked up the idea of liking "Team <insert name>" as a whole, but now a lot of players I really enjoy watching are on the same team. Results w/o hype, very nice... except for poor Innovation. He just had a bad week for the WCS Season 2 Finals ><
Scarlett's got to love having Innovation as a practice partner :D Got to work for that revenge on Bomber.
Last Time EG started to recruit Koreans it ended beeing a Korean only team (well, sort of...). I wonder if thats what will happen to every sponsored team out there.
I mean, It makes sence getting Koreans if they want to since they probably will bring better results.
I hope Acer has some money left over to design new team jerseys. Otherwise: awesome pickup. Looking forward to seeing more of Innovation. Maybe they can also pick up Major? :D
Like MrVideo posted earlier, Innovation's skill might decline (just a speculation) because he won't be strapped to a strict practice regime anymore. My thoughts were the same when I read that he will be joining the ranks of the awesome Acer team. There is actually no real reason to worry about this, because Innovation will probably just stick to the formula that has made him so successful in the past.
I think this is a good thing, overall. Increasing the power of foreign teams, and the need of KeSPA to work with other organizations is good for esports as a whole. Keep in mind that their loyalty is ultimately to 7 Korean teams (and 11 Korean companies) and the South Korean government, not to this life's passion that we as fans like to call esports. If you live in any of the 205 countries in the world that are not South Korea, you should be happy about this.
On August 27 2013 18:04 Fody03 wrote: The most depressing thing is that there is a 44k employee company sinking...
This, on the other hand, you should not feel happy about.
On August 27 2013 18:46 Pontius Pirate wrote: I think this is a good thing, overall. Increasing the power of foreign teams, and the need of KeSPA to work with other organizations is good for esports as a whole. Keep in mind that their loyalty is ultimately to 7 Korean teams (and 11 Korean companies) and the South Korean government, not to this life's passion that we as fans like to call esports. If you live in any of the 205 countries in the world that are not South Korea, you should be happy about this.
On August 27 2013 18:04 Fody03 wrote: The most depressing thing is that there is a 44k employee company sinking...
This, on the other hand, you should not feel happy about.
Yea, the fact some of the best koreans can pratice with foreigner in the same team, is really good for foreign scene. And innovation in WCS EU? plz :> But nor more after :p. Really sad to learn that so many ppl will lose their jobs :/.
But theres still a saddest thing: comments on gamespot about the article -_-...
On August 27 2013 06:10 vult wrote: Slasher is probably the best example of good e-sports journalism, and there arent many good ones out there.
Oh I don't even know where to start. But out of all the journalist in esports, slasher is yellow press and all the good guys (which you apparently don't even know of which is kinda sad) are very far away from the gossip level slasher uses to get gamespot their clicks to let him keep his job.
On August 27 2013 18:46 Pontius Pirate wrote: I think this is a good thing, overall. Increasing the power of foreign teams, and the need of KeSPA to work with other organizations is good for esports as a whole. Keep in mind that their loyalty is ultimately to 7 Korean teams (and 11 Korean companies) and the South Korean government, not to this life's passion that we as fans like to call esports.
Yeah because Acer's loyalty is totally to the passion of esports.
There's nothing good about Kespa's decline if there is no an organization just LIKE Kespa to replace it and do all the things Kespa used to do.
It just means we'll never have a real structure again. Instead of having a continuation of the scene that already lasted a decade, the entire foundation built by Brood War will be destroyed and replaced by some pointless random chaos where everybody does whatever the hell they want. Scene like that will never reproduce the same level of competition we used to have.
This is only the first step in not only securing Flash's top Terran spot in proleague and making Fantasy second, but also giving Flash a clean road to the next GSL/OSL titles (if innovation leaves Korea that is). Bwahahahahaa! :D
On August 27 2013 05:08 Conti wrote: I feel bad for acer. Imagine how absolutely huge it would have been if they would have just suddenly announced the switch. Everyone would be going crazy.
Now, everyone is going "meh, knew it for days!". Even though Innovation. is. joining. team. Acer.
they kinda brought it on themselves. They should have kept quiet and then dropped the bomb. You cant make an announcement of an announcement and hope that people dont figure it out.
On August 27 2013 05:08 Conti wrote: I feel bad for acer. Imagine how absolutely huge it would have been if they would have just suddenly announced the switch. Everyone would be going crazy.
Now, everyone is going "meh, knew it for days!". Even though Innovation. is. joining. team. Acer.
they kinda brought it on themselves. They should have kept quiet and then dropped the bomb. You cant make an announcement of an announcement and hope that people dont figure it out.
On August 27 2013 19:47 Qikz wrote: This is only the first step in not only securing Flash's top Terran spot in proleague and making Fantasy second, but also giving Flash a clean road to the next GSL/OSL titles (if innovation leaves Korea that is). Bwahahahahaa! :D
Your evil plans for flash domination needs to take out Bomber out of the scene first :D
Oh man.... Scarlett, whom already having one of the best ZvT's in the world, will improve ZvT massively. I'm going to guess Scarlett will have the best ZvT IN THE WORLD after Innovation joins.
This is such a good catch for Acer. They are really up to par with any korean team with Scarlett, MMA, Innovation and those people who are in the background at the moment but not weak at all: Nerchio, Bly, Paranoia. *___*
I don't think Acer will be in proleague after they pissed off Kespa like this. If they wanted to be in proleague, they would have gone the way EG did with JD.
On August 27 2013 20:01 zelevin wrote: Oh man.... Scarlett, whom already having one of the best ZvT's in the world, will improve ZvT massively. I'm going to guess Scarlett will have the best ZvT IN THE WORLD after Innovation joins.
It doesn't always work like that, look at how bad the KT zergs are after getting flashbanged daily for years.
Perhaps MMA seen the plans for Acer's team when he wanted to leave SlayerS for them, especially after he found how much BoxeR was making. Maybe Acer got money in the bank and invest a lot into e-sports?
On August 27 2013 19:47 Qikz wrote: This is only the first step in not only securing Flash's top Terran spot in proleague and making Fantasy second, but also giving Flash a clean road to the next GSL/OSL titles (if innovation leaves Korea that is). Bwahahahahaa! :D
Your evil plans for flash domination needs to take out Bomber out of the scene first :D
On August 27 2013 17:12 lookfirewood wrote: This is the nail in the coffin for stx. Really sad to see them go. I really want to know where the rest of the stx-players will ens up now. Dear, trap and mini in particular. Would seem like nice pickups for any team. Wrong thread, i know, but my heart is almost broken. I hope they find a way. Good luck to you bogus!!!
didn't they win that one team league like a month ago?
On August 27 2013 19:47 Qikz wrote: This is only the first step in not only securing Flash's top Terran spot in proleague and making Fantasy second, but also giving Flash a clean road to the next GSL/OSL titles (if innovation leaves Korea that is). Bwahahahahaa! :D
Your evil plans for flash domination needs to take out Bomber out of the scene first :D
tbh he'd have to kidnap half of Code S and fly them out to europe or something
On August 27 2013 17:12 lookfirewood wrote: This is the nail in the coffin for stx. Really sad to see them go. I really want to know where the rest of the stx-players will ens up now. Dear, trap and mini in particular. Would seem like nice pickups for any team. Wrong thread, i know, but my heart is almost broken. I hope they find a way. Good luck to you bogus!!!
didn't they win that one team league like a month ago?
Yes they did! I really dont follow your point tho?
If STX disband, Classic, Trap, and Dear all going to be hot commodities. I can't see Classic leaving Kespa but Trap and Dear could potentially join on a foreign adventure.
On August 27 2013 20:04 Fleshcut wrote: This is such a good catch for Acer. They are really up to par with any korean team with Scarlett, MMA, Innovation and those people who are in the background at the moment but not weak at all: Nerchio, Bly, Paranoia. *___*
On August 27 2013 20:04 Fleshcut wrote: This is such a good catch for Acer. They are really up to par with any korean team with Scarlett, MMA, Innovation and those people who are in the background at the moment but not weak at all: Nerchio, Bly, Paranoia. *___*
yeah, just like EGTL!
Yeah, just look how terribly EGTL are doing all over the world right now!
3 EGTL players topped their groups at WCS Finals, Jaedong made the finals, Taeja was 1 map away
Holy shit!!!! well I certainly didn't expect this! Huge signing!!! congratz Acer. I'm just a bit worried if Innovation will be as good as now with non-Kespa training
On August 27 2013 04:56 Duggibobo wrote: Acer is all of a sudden the best foreign team
imo they are a pretty good contender even if you just look at the actualy foreign lineup liquid and eg have become to depend mostly on koreans and empire has a pretty thin roster by now mouz is probably on a level with them but other than that...
On August 27 2013 20:16 zebezt wrote: I don't think Acer will be in proleague after they pissed off Kespa like this. If they wanted to be in proleague, they would have gone the way EG did with JD.
I'm sure KeSPA would love to keep Innovation... so if anything Acer might have an even easier way of getting into proleague.
On August 27 2013 18:04 Fody03 wrote: The most depressing thing is that there is a 44k employees company sinking...
Good luck Innovation on the new team
Shutting down an eSports division doesn't necessarily mean the company is sinking. They just don't have the funding they need to be able to sponsor an eSports team.
On August 27 2013 18:04 Fody03 wrote: The most depressing thing is that there is a 44k employees company sinking...
Good luck Innovation on the new team
Shutting down an eSports division doesn't necessarily mean the company is sinking. They just don't have the funding they need to be able to sponsor an eSports team.
Well the thing is, the company is sinking (I see what you did there).
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
Indeed, now to find that other post I forgot to respond to.
On August 27 2013 16:52 Fionn wrote: The whole point of non-region locking was so elite Koreans could go to the other two regions, stay there, and level up the foreigners in said region by practicing on that ladder, joining teams in that region, and living there. That fell apart when they let people from Korea come down to a specific region for six days a tournament and then fly back to Korea, but if they made it so you had to live in that region throughout the year or be there for every offline portion of the tournament, you might actually see what Blizzard dreamed of come true. If you have Innovation and others on the European ladder, living there and actually integrating with the other GM's in Europe, you could see some changes.
Now it's pretty much a joke. Mvp can fly down for two weekends, say he's European, beat up the actual Europeans, and then go back to Korea. Hopefully with the Acer house opening up in Germany, we see Innovation and MMA move full-time to Europe and practice there.
I guess I have to respond to this. I'm pretty sure you saw what I said about the qualifiers/prelims. You guys really need to stop beating yourselves up about how Blizzard branded it because all they were meant to be was prelims open to everyone. Region had nothing to do with it based on the outline.
On August 27 2013 06:57 damod wrote: EG just played against Acer in SC2L a few hours ago in a very hilarious BO7 Replacing paranoid with innovation against Oz might have brought them the win, but EG is still very strong and managed to take it 4-3 in the end. also in this tourny it does seem like EG, Acer and TL are top 3 foreign teams, with Acer being number 2 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StarCraft_2_League
i can see them being number one with innovation though
What you expect? It's the SC2L.
On August 27 2013 06:56 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 27 2013 06:55 Cokefreak wrote:
On August 27 2013 06:52 Doublemint wrote: Acer confirmed as the new EG - Stealing star players on the decline from dying entities.
Jaedong obviously on a decline
Should i remind you in what form EG got him? You could say he WAS on decline.
When they're just starting to play a new game? Come on man. Not everyone is going to be really good 6-8 months in. If anything the guy was steadily improving bit by bit.
painkilla,
The template the KeSPA is tried; tested and proven. It's not a lax environment and they know how to train players very well. This doesn't mean other players won't shine with their own regimes lol. There are plenty of players who like to do things differently which include Stephano, Scarlett, TLO, Naniwa, etc. It's funny because Scarlett said she likes training on her own and doing stuff on ladder but will ask teammates questions if need be. Yet it looks like she's really keen about practicing with Bogus so whoop, whoop. So does every player have to use the same practice routine? Not necessarily, but if it works for a lot of players and they don't mind it. Then more power to them.
Painkilla isn't saying that the KeSPA training system doesn't work. He's saying that the myth that the KeSPA training system is BETTER than all others and thus allows all players under that system to be superior to players not under that system has been disproven. In his words, "there is nothing inherently better about Kespa and their training system". He's not saying that the system is bad, but just that it's not inherently better than all the other systems, and it looks like you're actually agreeing with that by saying that different training systems work for different people.
Ah ha. Found the post I forgot to respond to. There will always be the what if factor. As in you never know until you actually try something and a lot of the players we listed off never really tired it. We're not talking about spending a few months in a Korean house like Stephano who likes being his own boss and didn't really take to trOt's guidance. The coaching style wasn't for him & he rather figure things out on his own. There are a lot of Western players who are like this. There are countless examples, but there are a few players out who make realizations once they come aboard and go, "Oh shit. The way I was doing things wasn't as efficient as I could be. Maybe if I switch things up I could potentially be a lot better." It's hard to say if these players who like to float at the seam of their pants and do their own thing wouldn't benefit from another style. There are a lot of players who find success and they just stick to what they know because it's what they're familiar with. They're accustomed to it and some people just don't like change. When change could be a good thing. At the end of the day you have to stay happy/positive. If working the way KeSPA players do doesn't keep you passionate about the game then yes, there is no point going down that path even if it could make you a better player. Plus, the system we currently have in place like Fionn said sort of works against it.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
Indeed, now to find that other post I forgot to respond to.
On August 27 2013 16:52 Fionn wrote: The whole point of non-region locking was so elite Koreans could go to the other two regions, stay there, and level up the foreigners in said region by practicing on that ladder, joining teams in that region, and living there. That fell apart when they let people from Korea come down to a specific region for six days a tournament and then fly back to Korea, but if they made it so you had to live in that region throughout the year or be there for every offline portion of the tournament, you might actually see what Blizzard dreamed of come true. If you have Innovation and others on the European ladder, living there and actually integrating with the other GM's in Europe, you could see some changes.
Now it's pretty much a joke. Mvp can fly down for two weekends, say he's European, beat up the actual Europeans, and then go back to Korea. Hopefully with the Acer house opening up in Germany, we see Innovation and MMA move full-time to Europe and practice there.
I guess I have to respond to this. I'm pretty sure you saw what I said about the qualifiers/prelims. You guys really need to stop beating yourselves up about how Blizzard branded it because all they were meant to be was prelims open to everyone. Region had nothing to do with it based on the outline.
You are right about that but, I also felt the need to respond and tell you that, people feel cheated regarding this new version of WCS because Blizzard pulled a full 180 regarding the format in comparison to last year.
Last year's WCS was a sort of a grassroots series of tournaments feeding into regional, continental and finally the global final. This year's is a series of GSL format tournaments open to everyone that feeds into a seasonal final and lastly a grand final.
Personally I have no problem with Blizzards system, my problem with them, and many others is that they aren't doing anything to also promote and grow local talent. The WCS system doesn't help in that regard, as has been pointed out Koreans can just come for the last two weeks that are required to be in EU or NA, compete in the offline part, win and then go back to Korea.
Again this wouldn't be so bad if there was also another tournament, maybe not the same scale or prize pool as WCS, but something consistent to grow the local scene, well so far there is none of that, and there can't be because of one simple reason, you can't broadcast during WCS prime times.
Now, did we need the WCS in its current form? In a way yes, we need to be able to see the highest level of play consistently especially for those that can't afford a GSL pass or can't sync their schedule with it.
Does it hurt the scene in its current inception? Yes, Korean is hurt because their prize pool for the GSL shrank and it has encouraged some of their greatest players to play abroad thus somewhat worsening the Korean scene, and it has also hurt the EU and NA scenes because the Koreans abroad are still vastly stronger then foreigners and more then guaranteed to win. In a way it also has made the GSL feel somewhat less special, because you now get to see Koreans competing in a GSL esque format everywhere at any time.
Could we live with the WCS? Yes but with some adjustments, what must really change is the scheduling, there need to be some off seasons when other smaller local tournaments can take place. We need the highest level of play but we equally so need to grow the local scenes and talent, otherwise in the long run SC2 is shooting itself in the foot.
If the WCS system allowed room for smaller scale local tournaments I'd have no problem with its system. I also with they would allow GOM to host a proper GSL with the good old 50k prize pool for first place, that way it would encourage the best Koreans to stay mostly in Korea.
On topic. Regarding Innovation, I personally hope he never leaves Korea and continues to train exclusively there, because I strongly fear his level of skill will decline outside of Korea without access to its ladder and he will become a shadow of his former self, without actually contributing too much to the local scene in EU. The problem with Koreans moving here and training here in EU and/or NA is that there need to be a large enough number of top caliber Koreans that have too move for there to be an impact, if 3-4 move they will decrease in level, they won't quite reach the level of the local scene but they will be far from the peaks they could achieve in Korea. Now if 30-40 Koreans move to both EU and NA then that would be a proper number to keep their own skill set sharp and to raise the local level for the GMs.
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts.
Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more.
Indeed, now to find that other post I forgot to respond to.
On August 27 2013 16:52 Fionn wrote: The whole point of non-region locking was so elite Koreans could go to the other two regions, stay there, and level up the foreigners in said region by practicing on that ladder, joining teams in that region, and living there. That fell apart when they let people from Korea come down to a specific region for six days a tournament and then fly back to Korea, but if they made it so you had to live in that region throughout the year or be there for every offline portion of the tournament, you might actually see what Blizzard dreamed of come true. If you have Innovation and others on the European ladder, living there and actually integrating with the other GM's in Europe, you could see some changes.
Now it's pretty much a joke. Mvp can fly down for two weekends, say he's European, beat up the actual Europeans, and then go back to Korea. Hopefully with the Acer house opening up in Germany, we see Innovation and MMA move full-time to Europe and practice there.
I guess I have to respond to this. I'm pretty sure you saw what I said about the qualifiers/prelims. You guys really need to stop beating yourselves up about how Blizzard branded it because all they were meant to be was prelims open to everyone. Region had nothing to do with it based on the outline.
You are right about that but, I also felt the need to respond and tell you that, people feel cheated regarding this new version of WCS because Blizzard pulled a full 180 regarding the format in comparison to last year.
Last year's WCS was a sort of a grassroots series of tournaments feeding into regional, continental and finally the global final. This year's is a series of GSL format tournaments open to everyone that feeds into a seasonal final and lastly a grand final.
Personally I have no problem with Blizzards system, my problem with them, and many others is that they aren't doing anything to also promote and grow local talent. The WCS system doesn't help in that regard, as has been pointed out Koreans can just come for the last two weeks that are required to be in EU or NA, compete in the offline part, win and then go back to Korea.
Again this wouldn't be so bad if there was also another tournament, maybe not the same scale or prize pool as WCS, but something consistent to grow the local scene, well so far there is none of that, and there can't be because of one simple reason, you can't broadcast during WCS prime times.
Now, did we need the WCS in its current form? In a way yes, we need to be able to see the highest level of play consistently especially for those that can't afford a GSL pass or can't sync their schedule with it.
Does it hurt the scene in its current inception? Yes, Korean is hurt because their prize pool for the GSL shrank and it has encouraged some of their greatest players to play abroad thus somewhat worsening the Korean scene, and it has also hurt the EU and NA scenes because the Koreans abroad are still vastly stronger then foreigners and more then guaranteed to win. In a way it also has made the GSL feel somewhat less special, because you now get to see Koreans competing in a GSL esque format everywhere at any time.
Could we live with the WCS? Yes but with some adjustments, what must really change is the scheduling, there need to be some off seasons when other smaller local tournaments can take place. We need the highest level of play but we equally so need to grow the local scenes and talent, otherwise in the long run SC2 is shooting itself in the foot.
If the WCS system allowed room for smaller scale local tournaments I'd have no problem with its system. I also with they would allow GOM to host a proper GSL with the good old 50k prize pool for first place, that way it would encourage the best Koreans to stay mostly in Korea.
Blizzard is tinkering to find the best format to benefit all the players. At the end of the day they want to have flexibility so it doesn't matter where you come from, what team your associated with, etc. To promote global talent you really have to put the money down and buy into a system like the one I keep proposing. The biggest problem with my system is getting players out to every major LAN. We have more than enough organizers to promote a World Tour Circuit. Once again the problem comes down to the expenses for the players... the organizers would be keen on their expenses already because the big guns already host approximately four major stops a year, so that's not really the issue. The other really big issue is the the fact you would have to work around PL, OSL, GSL, etc. (there would be a LAN pretty much every several weeks, so you have to find a way to fit it in the schedule). It's pretty complicated and you would have to get everyone together to plan out the annual schedule so everyone's on the same page and there is no overlap.
Yes I agree there are a lot of difficulties and hurdles on the way to reaching a format that will benefit everyone given enough flexibility, and no doubt Blizzard are trying their best to find it. I was just stating the reason why people are really disappointed with this year's WCS and why I am also saddened regarding its format.
I do hope Innovation stays in WCS Korea. That way, in the same weekend we can have Scarlett winning WCS AM, MMA winning WCS EU, and Inno winning WCS Korea.
On August 27 2013 21:55 Markwerf wrote: Looks good for Acer but might as well be his downfall not having the top training partners anymore..
Well...let's see what Aligulac has to say about these training partners...
2. KR P Trap 1571 1541 1470 1703 3. KR P Dear 1548 1517 1526 1599 4. KR P Classic 1483 1413 1537 1501 5. KR Z hyvaa 1399 1451 1422 1325 6. KR P Mini 1304 1300 1379 1233 7. KR Z YoungJoo 1100 1055 1228 1019
ok, now let's look at axiom-acer...
1. KR T MMA 1773 1729 1745 1844 2. CA Z Scarlett 1689 1730 1715 1622 1. KR P Alicia 1630 1617 1743 1530 2. KR T Ryung 1615 1490 1736 1617 3. KR T Heart 1444 1452 1413 1466 4. KR P CranK 1420 1460 1345 1455
Hmmmm
Maybe we should be speculating what Innovation will do with stronger practice partners (at least when it comes to Terran and Zerg--STX toss are probably better than Axiom toss).
On August 28 2013 00:58 metroid composite wrote: I do hope Innovation stays in WCS Korea. That way, in the same weekend we can have Scarlett winning WCS AM, MMA winning WCS EU, and Inno winning WCS Korea.
On August 27 2013 21:55 Markwerf wrote: Looks good for Acer but might as well be his downfall not having the top training partners anymore..
Well...let's see what Aligulac has to say about these training partners...
2. KR P Trap 1571 1541 1470 1703 3. KR P Dear 1548 1517 1526 1599 4. KR P Classic 1483 1413 1537 1501 5. KR Z hyvaa 1399 1451 1422 1325 6. KR P Mini 1304 1300 1379 1233 7. KR Z YoungJoo 1100 1055 1228 1019
ok, now let's look at axiom-acer...
1. KR T MMA 1773 1729 1745 1844 2. CA Z Scarlett 1689 1730 1715 1622 1. KR P Alicia 1630 1617 1743 1530 2. KR T Ryung 1615 1490 1736 1617 3. KR T Heart 1444 1452 1413 1466 4. KR P CranK 1420 1460 1345 1455
Hmmmm
Maybe we should be speculating what Innovation will do with stronger practice partners (at least when it comes to Terran and Zerg--STX toss are probably better than Axiom toss).
It's annoying to see people quote Aligulac non-stop while the ratings for many players are obviously not where they should be. Aligulac ranks LucifroN higher than for instance jjakji or KeeN, do you seriously think it reflects any kind of reality?
On August 28 2013 00:58 metroid composite wrote: I do hope Innovation stays in WCS Korea. That way, in the same weekend we can have Scarlett winning WCS AM, MMA winning WCS EU, and Inno winning WCS Korea.
On August 27 2013 21:55 Markwerf wrote: Looks good for Acer but might as well be his downfall not having the top training partners anymore..
Well...let's see what Aligulac has to say about these training partners...
2. KR P Trap 1571 1541 1470 1703 3. KR P Dear 1548 1517 1526 1599 4. KR P Classic 1483 1413 1537 1501 5. KR Z hyvaa 1399 1451 1422 1325 6. KR P Mini 1304 1300 1379 1233 7. KR Z YoungJoo 1100 1055 1228 1019
ok, now let's look at axiom-acer...
1. KR T MMA 1773 1729 1745 1844 2. CA Z Scarlett 1689 1730 1715 1622 1. KR P Alicia 1630 1617 1743 1530 2. KR T Ryung 1615 1490 1736 1617 3. KR T Heart 1444 1452 1413 1466 4. KR P CranK 1420 1460 1345 1455
Hmmmm
Maybe we should be speculating what Innovation will do with stronger practice partners (at least when it comes to Terran and Zerg--STX toss are probably better than Axiom toss).
It's annoying to see people quote Aligulac non-stop while the ratings for many players are obviously not where they should be. Aligulac ranks LucifroN higher than for instance jjakji or KeeN, do you seriously think it reflects any kind of reality?
Aligulac tends to overrate foreigners who only play in foreign tournaments. Which is...not the case for any of the Axiom-Acer players quoted (all of whom play in the GSTL).
You'll note that I intentionally didn't quote Nerchio's Aligulac score, for instance. (Which, yeah, is probably a little inflated due to playing in mostly local EU tournaments. Also, he's not in the Korean teamhouse anyway).
wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
On August 28 2013 00:58 metroid composite wrote: I do hope Innovation stays in WCS Korea. That way, in the same weekend we can have Scarlett winning WCS AM, MMA winning WCS EU, and Inno winning WCS Korea.
On August 27 2013 21:55 Markwerf wrote: Looks good for Acer but might as well be his downfall not having the top training partners anymore..
Well...let's see what Aligulac has to say about these training partners...
2. KR P Trap 1571 1541 1470 1703 3. KR P Dear 1548 1517 1526 1599 4. KR P Classic 1483 1413 1537 1501 5. KR Z hyvaa 1399 1451 1422 1325 6. KR P Mini 1304 1300 1379 1233 7. KR Z YoungJoo 1100 1055 1228 1019
ok, now let's look at axiom-acer...
1. KR T MMA 1773 1729 1745 1844 2. CA Z Scarlett 1689 1730 1715 1622 1. KR P Alicia 1630 1617 1743 1530 2. KR T Ryung 1615 1490 1736 1617 3. KR T Heart 1444 1452 1413 1466 4. KR P CranK 1420 1460 1345 1455
Hmmmm
Maybe we should be speculating what Innovation will do with stronger practice partners (at least when it comes to Terran and Zerg--STX toss are probably better than Axiom toss).
That is terribly misleading for a huge number of reasons.
1st The way Aligulac works is that it ranks depending on how many and how often people face each other. For the KeSPA koreans, especially the ones that don't get to attend foreign tournaments, GSTL and maybe no GSL or OSL, very often it means they have a very, very deflated rating compared to where they would realistically be.
2 What's to say Innovation doesn't have practice partners outside his team? I'm quite sure he does, everyone does, Flash trained a bit with Soulkey and Rain when he was eliminated from GSL, you could consider him some of his great rivals, and yet he practiced with them. Practice partners goes above and beyond team houses as anyone whom you know or are a friend with can be a potential practice partner provided he doesn't have time constraints at that moment.
3rd This one is right up there in importance with practice partners and its ladder practice. Now sources conflict on whether or not Innovation practices more with partners or on the ladder, however in case he practices on ladder then moving him from Korea to EU is a tremendous mistake, his skills would potentially drop drastically since neither the EU or NA ladder really compare to the KR ladder in terms of quality practice.
On August 28 2013 05:51 Destructicon wrote: 2 What's to say Innovation doesn't have practice partners outside his team? I'm quite sure he does, everyone does, Flash trained a bit with Soulkey and Rain when he was eliminated from GSL, you could consider him some of his great rivals, and yet he practiced with them. Practice partners goes above and beyond team houses as anyone whom you know or are a friend with can be a potential practice partner provided he doesn't have time constraints at that moment.
So my question about this kinda got buried in the flood of responses, but I was under the impression that Kespa players only practiced with people outside the team with their Coach's approval, since their daily routines are so regimented. Which so far looks to be limited to players on other Kespa teams (I base this on post-game practice partner shout-outs, it's almost never non-Kespa players thanking Kespa players).
Is this true at all? Or are things more flexible and it's just because Kespa peeps already know each other / are friendly offline or other reasons?
You guys are assuming all players actually play together when certain players have been on record stating they don't necessarily do so. I wouldn't pay much attention to the Aligulac scores either for several reasons. Teams have several practice partners regardless of team affiliation, especially when it comes to KeSPA; furthermore, there are players out there who don't have all the accolades in competitive play but they're great for getting reps in against. You guys remember what Artosis used to say about PuMa right? lol When certain players are under no pressure go figure. Anyway, you hear several players mentioned in winner interviews that you wouldn't necessarily expect or know because in many cases they're just practice partners trying to earn their stripes to make a team. It's common, so I'd hold off the training/practice partners comparisons.
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Behind this.
And i watched some GSTL.
It was hard to take a lot of it seriously though with several of the teams being so weak, but it was good to see how people you usually on see in europe/america now (MMA/Ryung for e.g.) perform against koreans in korea.
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Especially having such a big Team League would be awesome!
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
well, the viewship disagree with you. gstl generally have more viewers than SPL, although PL does have more matches. And No team is join proleague, no IM no ace no MVP. It's simply too expensive that no other can afford. I do wish they'd merge like NBA did, but highly unlikely
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Behind this.
And i watched some GSTL.
It was hard to take a lot of it seriously though with several of the teams being so weak, but it was good to see how people you usually on see in europe/america now (MMA/Ryung for e.g.) perform against koreans in korea.
I'm in the other boat.
I don't watch Proleague because: 1. I didn't like the casters in the broadcasts I watched. 2. I did not like a lot of the maps in the Proleague map pool 3. I'm not familiar with the Kespa teams and players. I'm more familiar with the GSTL teams and players, and I like Wolf and Khaldor.
On August 28 2013 09:37 tuho12345 wrote: Innovation is the GSTL format is seriously overpower lol. A little sad to see him leave Kespa Pro League too soon.
Well, Lee Shin Hyung if my memory serves me right have been Proleague regular for a while. Oh, 4-3 in 08-09 Proleague season. 4 years is pretty darn long ;o Granted, as INnoVation he surely only played 8 months in SPL :D
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Behind this.
And i watched some GSTL.
It was hard to take a lot of it seriously though with several of the teams being so weak, but it was good to see how people you usually on see in europe/america now (MMA/Ryung for e.g.) perform against koreans in korea.
I'm in the other boat.
I don't watch Proleague because: 1. I didn't like the casters in the broadcasts I watched. 2. I did not like a lot of the maps in the Proleague map pool 3. I'm not familiar with the Kespa teams and players. I'm more familiar with the GSTL teams and players, and I like Wolf and Khaldor.
i agree with most of that, and i didn't watch a lot of pro league either, mainly because of the bad casters.
Did watch some though.
Would still rather see them combined then separate though. Start to bring the scene together as a whole.
I'm just sad for STX Soul. For the first time in their history they had a major break through success, and suddenly their best player is "snatched away" from them.
On August 28 2013 05:51 Destructicon wrote: 3rd This one is right up there in importance with practice partners and its ladder practice. Now sources conflict on whether or not Innovation practices more with partners or on the ladder, however in case he practices on ladder then moving him from Korea to EU is a tremendous mistake, his skills would potentially drop drastically since neither the EU or NA ladder really compare to the KR ladder in terms of quality practice.
There has been no announcement to say that Inno will move to EU. I don't think he even can change regions now until the end of the season, and as long as he's qualifying for global finals through WCS korea there's zero incentive to switch regions for him.
On August 27 2013 04:56 Duggibobo wrote: Acer is all of a sudden the best foreign team
in an all kill format**
How exactly are we defining "foreign team". Does the owner just have to be non-korean? If that's all that's needed...FXO makes a pretty strong case for "best foreign team".
On August 27 2013 20:04 Fleshcut wrote: This is such a good catch for Acer. They are really up to par with any korean team with Scarlett, MMA, Innovation and those people who are in the background at the moment but not weak at all: Nerchio, Bly, Paranoia. *___*
yeah, just like EGTL!
Yeah, just look how terribly EGTL are doing all over the world right now!
3 EGTL players topped their groups at WCS Finals, Jaedong made the finals, Taeja was 1 map away
EGTL was only a thing during proleague tough, counting them as a team somewhere else is silly.
On August 27 2013 04:56 Duggibobo wrote: Acer is all of a sudden the best foreign team
in an all kill format**
How exactly are we defining "foreign team". Does the owner just have to be non-korean? If that's all that's needed...FXO makes a pretty strong case for "best foreign team".
Nah, it suffices if the majority of its good players reside outside of Korea, imo. And currently all of Acer is living in Germany if I recall correctly.
On August 27 2013 20:04 Fleshcut wrote: This is such a good catch for Acer. They are really up to par with any korean team with Scarlett, MMA, Innovation and those people who are in the background at the moment but not weak at all: Nerchio, Bly, Paranoia. *___*
yeah, just like EGTL!
Yeah, just look how terribly EGTL are doing all over the world right now!
3 EGTL players topped their groups at WCS Finals, Jaedong made the finals, Taeja was 1 map away
EGTL was only a thing during proleague tough, counting them as a team somewhere else is silly.
throwback to the days when everybody thought EGTL would be the best team in pro league
On August 28 2013 22:26 datouch wrote: In GSL player introduction Innovation and Dear didn't wear STX uniform. I guess the next player who going to find a new team will be Dear.
Dear was in STX uniform, but Hyvaa was in black t-shirt.
On August 28 2013 09:37 tuho12345 wrote: Innovation is the GSTL format is seriously overpower lol. A little sad to see him leave Kespa Pro League too soon.
On August 27 2013 04:56 Duggibobo wrote: Acer is all of a sudden the best foreign team
in an all kill format**
How exactly are we defining "foreign team". Does the owner just have to be non-korean? If that's all that's needed...FXO makes a pretty strong case for "best foreign team".
Nah, it suffices if the majority of its good players reside outside of Korea, imo. And currently all of Acer is living in Germany if I recall correctly.
All of acer? Really? Is this a temporary thing? How will they participate in the GSTL?
Though regardless, "majority of its good players reside outside of Korea" probably disqualifies EG as a foreign team, and probably disqualifies Liquid as well.
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Behind this.
And i watched some GSTL.
It was hard to take a lot of it seriously though with several of the teams being so weak, but it was good to see how people you usually on see in europe/america now (MMA/Ryung for e.g.) perform against koreans in korea.
I'm in the other boat.
I don't watch Proleague because: 1. I didn't like the casters in the broadcasts I watched. 2. I did not like a lot of the maps in the Proleague map pool 3. I'm not familiar with the Kespa teams and players. I'm more familiar with the GSTL teams and players, and I like Wolf and Khaldor.
i agree with most of that, and i didn't watch a lot of pro league either, mainly because of the bad casters.
Did watch some though.
Would still rather see them combined then separate though. Start to bring the scene together as a whole.
You guys realize there is a mute button and maybe now is a good time to start learning some Korean if you truly love gaming because it's one of the official languages.
On August 28 2013 09:37 tuho12345 wrote: Innovation is the GSTL format is seriously overpower lol. A little sad to see him leave Kespa Pro League too soon.
just imagine them in the next ATC
That's assuming he watches the ATC. I know I certainly don't. There is way too much stuff to watch and if every sponsor/team decided to hold their own League with their own format, well shit. We're the helium being fed into the balloon. There's only so much space to expand to.
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Behind this.
And i watched some GSTL.
It was hard to take a lot of it seriously though with several of the teams being so weak, but it was good to see how people you usually on see in europe/america now (MMA/Ryung for e.g.) perform against koreans in korea.
I'm in the other boat.
I don't watch Proleague because: 1. I didn't like the casters in the broadcasts I watched. 2. I did not like a lot of the maps in the Proleague map pool 3. I'm not familiar with the Kespa teams and players. I'm more familiar with the GSTL teams and players, and I like Wolf and Khaldor.
i agree with most of that, and i didn't watch a lot of pro league either, mainly because of the bad casters.
Did watch some though.
Would still rather see them combined then separate though. Start to bring the scene together as a whole.
You guys realize there is a mute button and maybe now is a good time to start learning some Korean if you truly love gaming because it's one of the official languages.
You know, I have been learning some Korean, due to an interest in K-pop, and it helps that a friend I visit fairly often speaks korean with his parents. But there's a league of difference between listening to a K-pop song and hearing 사랑해 and 예쁘다 and thinking "lol, well I've got the gist of this K-pop song now" and listening to and understanding proleague casters.
Have you successfully gone from not knowing any korean all the way to understanding proleague casters? If so, got any tips?
On August 29 2013 00:12 astray71 wrote: I'm still under the belief that Innovation will fall into a massive slump and he will only retain mid level success.
I would like you to consider that: a) his mechanics are what have helped him become one of the best players in the world. I really don't know that they will suffer under different settings (He's still stuck in WCS KR until next year). b) he's never really lived up to his nickname. being in the foreign scene (or just getting a new team and coach) could do wonders in terms of expanding his playstyle. c) scarlett has done quite well under acer
On August 29 2013 00:12 astray71 wrote: I'm still under the belief that Innovation will fall into a massive slump and he will only retain mid level success.
I would like you to consider that: a) his mechanics are what have helped him become one of the best players in the world. I really don't know that they will suffer under different settings (He's still stuck in WCS KR until next year). b) he's never really lived up to his nickname. being in the foreign scene (or just getting a new team and coach) could do wonders in terms of expanding his playstyle. c) scarlett has done quite well under acer
i would also like you to consider that this is the most depressing news i've ever heard in my entire life time. T_T. im gonna go cry myself to sleep, again.
On August 29 2013 00:12 astray71 wrote: I'm still under the belief that Innovation will fall into a massive slump and he will only retain mid level success.
I would like you to consider that: a) his mechanics are what have helped him become one of the best players in the world. I really don't know that they will suffer under different settings (He's still stuck in WCS KR until next year). b) he's never really lived up to his nickname. being in the foreign scene (or just getting a new team and coach) could do wonders in terms of expanding his playstyle. c) scarlett has done quite well under acer
i would also like you to consider that this is the most depressing news i've ever heard in my entire life time. T_T. im gonna go cry myself to sleep, again.
Innovation and Hyvaa wore the GSL black teamless shirts on the WCS KR S3 player introduction video:
my source suggests Hyvaa might also join a foreign team since he is asking for Skype contacts of numerous people. Trap and Dear are still on STX uniform though.
On August 29 2013 00:12 astray71 wrote: I'm still under the belief that Innovation will fall into a massive slump and he will only retain mid level success.
I would like you to consider that: a) his mechanics are what have helped him become one of the best players in the world. I really don't know that they will suffer under different settings (He's still stuck in WCS KR until next year). b) he's never really lived up to his nickname. being in the foreign scene (or just getting a new team and coach) could do wonders in terms of expanding his playstyle. c) scarlett has done quite well under acer
Interesting that you bring up Scarlett because Scarlett has always done well marching to beat of her own drum. There will always be exceptions. The only thing I can agree on with your points is the first one. The guy has good mechanics, but like most players. He's very stubborn; remember guys he was late to the hellbat race.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
Top Korean players at or near their peaks don't go to foreign teams that often though. I can't remember more than a handful of times, tops, that something like this has happened.
On August 29 2013 00:12 astray71 wrote: I'm still under the belief that Innovation will fall into a massive slump and he will only retain mid level success.
I would like you to consider that: a) his mechanics are what have helped him become one of the best players in the world. I really don't know that they will suffer under different settings (He's still stuck in WCS KR until next year). b) he's never really lived up to his nickname. being in the foreign scene (or just getting a new team and coach) could do wonders in terms of expanding his playstyle. c) scarlett has done quite well under acer
Interesting that you bring up Scarlett because Scarlett has always done well marching to beat of her own drum. There will always be exceptions. The only thing I can agree on with your points is the first one. The guy has good mechanics, but like most players. He's very stubborn; remember guys he was late to the hellbat race.
inconceivable, innovation is clearly a patch terran !
you are correct though, i would say that innovations struggles as of late is a result of being stubborn and being predictable. When the opponent knows exactly what's coming, he's beatable. My eyes will be glued to the screen this code S during innovation's group because his storyline has become very compelling.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
Top Korean players at or near their peaks don't go to foreign teams that often though. I can't remember more than a handful of times, tops, that something like this has happened.
IMO they will go where the money goes. I think it's safe to say innovation was probably underpaid while playing for STX, no? I'll be honest, i don't know much about the specifics of pro sc2 players' contracts, so this is pure conjecture on my part.
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Behind this.
And i watched some GSTL.
It was hard to take a lot of it seriously though with several of the teams being so weak, but it was good to see how people you usually on see in europe/america now (MMA/Ryung for e.g.) perform against koreans in korea.
I'm in the other boat.
I don't watch Proleague because: 1. I didn't like the casters in the broadcasts I watched. 2. I did not like a lot of the maps in the Proleague map pool 3. I'm not familiar with the Kespa teams and players. I'm more familiar with the GSTL teams and players, and I like Wolf and Khaldor.
i agree with most of that, and i didn't watch a lot of pro league either, mainly because of the bad casters.
Did watch some though.
Would still rather see them combined then separate though. Start to bring the scene together as a whole.
You guys realize there is a mute button and maybe now is a good time to start learning some Korean if you truly love gaming because it's one of the official languages.
Normal life solution to bad English cast: strive to improve the English cast.
TL solution to bad English cast: learn an obscure language spoken which is useless outside of one small country on the other side of the world.
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Behind this.
And i watched some GSTL.
It was hard to take a lot of it seriously though with several of the teams being so weak, but it was good to see how people you usually on see in europe/america now (MMA/Ryung for e.g.) perform against koreans in korea.
I'm in the other boat.
I don't watch Proleague because: 1. I didn't like the casters in the broadcasts I watched. 2. I did not like a lot of the maps in the Proleague map pool 3. I'm not familiar with the Kespa teams and players. I'm more familiar with the GSTL teams and players, and I like Wolf and Khaldor.
i agree with most of that, and i didn't watch a lot of pro league either, mainly because of the bad casters.
Did watch some though.
Would still rather see them combined then separate though. Start to bring the scene together as a whole.
You guys realize there is a mute button and maybe now is a good time to start learning some Korean if you truly love gaming because it's one of the official languages.
Normal life solution to bad English cast: strive to improve the English cast.
TL solution to bad English cast: learn an obscure language spoken which is useless outside of one small country on the other side of the world.
Hey hey now. It isn't useless outside of that one small country on the other side of the world. There's also North Korea! Very useful skill toi have there.
On August 28 2013 02:12 Akaann wrote: wow. Axiom Acer are gonna kill everything next GSTL season 0.o Can't wait to see how Inno s skill level is changning now. Think he has pretty good training in de Ax/Acer house. Scarlett proves it....
Does anybody even watch gstl anymore? I watch alot of starcraft and i think i managed to watch 2 matches last season. Proleague is so much better imo. I love gsl, but gstl is kinda dull. When IM and MVP leave and join proleague(if it happens) they might as well not even have a gstl season.
I personally prefer GSTL's allkill format, but do enjoy proleague much more. Would be nice if they can merge together. Would be nice to see both groups of teams playing eachother
Behind this.
And i watched some GSTL.
It was hard to take a lot of it seriously though with several of the teams being so weak, but it was good to see how people you usually on see in europe/america now (MMA/Ryung for e.g.) perform against koreans in korea.
I'm in the other boat.
I don't watch Proleague because: 1. I didn't like the casters in the broadcasts I watched. 2. I did not like a lot of the maps in the Proleague map pool 3. I'm not familiar with the Kespa teams and players. I'm more familiar with the GSTL teams and players, and I like Wolf and Khaldor.
i agree with most of that, and i didn't watch a lot of pro league either, mainly because of the bad casters.
Did watch some though.
Would still rather see them combined then separate though. Start to bring the scene together as a whole.
You guys realize there is a mute button and maybe now is a good time to start learning some Korean if you truly love gaming because it's one of the official languages.
Normal life solution to bad English cast: strive to improve the English cast.
TL solution to bad English cast: learn an obscure language spoken which is useless outside of one small country on the other side of the world.
I think it would be much cooler for people to learn the Korean language if you truly are invested in the scene. Not everyone is going to enjoy every caster out there even the big names. You think I listen to guys like Artosis and Tasteless nowadays? No sir. When you know what's happening you don't necessarily need a voice in your head to enjoy the games. My friends and I hardly listen to them nowadays and instead we just talk amongst ourselves as the game progresses.
I find it hard to believe that you would call Korean useless when one of your hobbies is following competitive gaming. For all I know you might actually enjoy the culture as well. :V
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
There should be a tournament where pairs of players are locked in the booth - a strategists and a mechanists, one of them plays and the other one can look over his shoulder and tell him what to do. Finally, Mvp (given a reasonable mechanist, such as Flash or Inno) wins absolutely everything to the end of the days, unless he hits MMA in the finals.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Tbh I find it ridiculous that progamers aren't taught basic ergonomics. I guess since they have such short careers, people don't bother, but honestly, it doesn't take that long to show players a wrist-friendly set-up that would help them avoid injuries that may cripple them for life.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Nope.
If you've read any Mvp interviews (which I'm inclined to believe you didn't) you'd know his case is pretty fucking excruciating to the point where can barely practice. That's also why he dropped the more micro-heavy style in favor of mech and mind-games.
As for your point that there were cases in Brood War, how many of them were champions that faltered because of this issue? Because I only know of FlaSh, and he's had his wrist problems treated through surgery.
Playing bio in SC2 is very heavy on the micro and multi-tasking, unless you're doing the sC/Bomber style parade push where you just macro really hard and rally across the map, and many top Terrans have suffered as a result of their playstyle choice.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Nope.
If you've read any Mvp interviews (which I'm inclined to believe you didn't) you'd know his case is pretty fucking excruciating to the point where can barely practice. That's also why he dropped the more micro-heavy style in favor of mech and mind-games.
As for your point that there were cases in Brood War, how many of them were champions that faltered because of this issue? Because I only know of FlaSh, and he's had his wrist problems treated through surgery.
Playing bio in SC2 is very heavy on the micro and multi-tasking, unless you're doing the sC/Bomber style parade push where you just macro really hard and rally across the map, and many top Terrans have suffered as a result of their playstyle choice.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Nope.
If you've read any Mvp interviews (which I'm inclined to believe you didn't) you'd know his case is pretty fucking excruciating to the point where can barely practice. That's also why he dropped the more micro-heavy style in favor of mech and mind-games.
As for your point that there were cases in Brood War, how many of them were champions that faltered because of this issue? Because I only know of FlaSh, and he's had his wrist problems treated through surgery.
Playing bio in SC2 is very heavy on the micro and multi-tasking, unless you're doing the sC/Bomber style parade push where you just macro really hard and rally across the map, and many top Terrans have suffered as a result of their playstyle choice.
iloveoov, though he fell in the shower :c
Boxer too, but his shoulder problems were more during his time as an SC2 pro (and why at the time he announced his retirement until HoTs came out, which turned into a full transition into coaching).
On August 30 2013 04:21 Amaril wrote: When Innovation can no longer practise in a KeSPA teamhouse he will never reach his peak again, then we will have a 2nd MMA.
I find it bizarre that people are suggesting that MMA has fallen because he's on a foreign team.
MMA fell very hard while he was still on SlayerS (thanks to drama). Since joining Acer he's been getting back in-form, steadily improving.
He's not as dominant now as he used to be, but it could be that everyone else just got better. Like...he dominanted in 2011. Know who else dominated in 2011? Nestea. Nestea dominated so hard he won Code S without dropping a single map. I dunno if I'd say Nestea has dropped off necessarily--he's been on the same team, with no injuries or drama, and still gets into Code S from time to time. But will Nestea (or anyone else, really) win another Code S without dropping a single map? I doubt it--the competition has heated up a lot since 2011. Even when Nestea was dominating, a friend of mine made the comment "it's not that he plays flawless or anything, it's just that nobody else has gotten good at the game yet." And yeah, that does explain how he dominated so much, when two years later players described as best in the world get countered and sniped out of winning Code S almost every time.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
My mistake thought I was just out of the loop.
As far as Mvps neck/wrist problems go you would be surprised how many progamers deal with this pain when they play. I have talked to a few progamers about this and very few have no problems with wrist pain. Hell, I play way less then these guys and my wrists are always sore when I play.
The onlty reson he is not winning is because he is not as good as the people who are? As far as wrist problems 95% of pros have the same problem, Kinda cancels out the argument.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Tbh I find it ridiculous that progamers aren't taught basic ergonomics. I guess since they have such short careers, people don't bother, but honestly, it doesn't take that long to show players a wrist-friendly set-up that would help them avoid injuries that may cripple them for life.
But KeSPA did to seminars and workshops with the players when it came to personal health. Heck, even Greg participated in one.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Nope.
If you've read any Mvp interviews (which I'm inclined to believe you didn't) you'd know his case is pretty fucking excruciating to the point where can barely practice. That's also why he dropped the more micro-heavy style in favor of mech and mind-games.
As for your point that there were cases in Brood War, how many of them were champions that faltered because of this issue? Because I only know of FlaSh, and he's had his wrist problems treated through surgery.
Playing bio in SC2 is very heavy on the micro and multi-tasking, unless you're doing the sC/Bomber style parade push where you just macro really hard and rally across the map, and many top Terrans have suffered as a result of their playstyle choice.
I read plenty of interviews thanks. I know what he said about switching it up. Now let's go back to the main point, BW was also micro-intensive as shit, so you aren't going to sell me that can of worms. The precious thing we're looking at here is time. A lot of these guys have spent a huge portion of their lives training for RTS. It will catch up to you eventually if you don't do daily maintenance to your body. You aren't supposed to be spending that much time in front of a computer/desk period. At the end of the day time conquers all. MVP was good, but I think some of you give certain players a little too much credit.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Why write about them being excuses? Yes, they are legitimate excuses. Are you implying you don't believe some of them?
Also, not everyone reports wrist issues.
Also, MVP's dilemma is far more severe than wrists issues. He has a problem with his spine.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Why write about them being excuses? Yes, they are legitimate excuses. Are you implying you don't believe some of them?
Also, not everyone reports wrist issues.
Also, MVP's dilemma is far more severe than wrists issues. He has a problem with his spine.
Not when you can take certain precautions. They are excuses. When the problem materializes that's when you address it before it becomes too problematic. At the end of the day, you have no one but yourself to blame for pushing too hard. There's a lot of shit that goes on in people's heads when it comes to limiting themselves when it comes to participating in activity. A lot of it's just mental.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
My mistake thought I was just out of the loop.
As far as Mvps neck/wrist problems go you would be surprised how many progamers deal with this pain when they play. I have talked to a few progamers about this and very few have no problems with wrist pain. Hell, I play way less then these guys and my wrists are always sore when I play.
The onlty reson he is not winning is because he is not as good as the people who are? As far as wrist problems 95% of pros have the same problem, Kinda cancels out the argument.
Mvp has spine problem. If you're saying 95% progamer have same problem I don't know what to say to you.
On August 29 2013 05:19 Witten wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if he drops off hard like most strong Korean players who move over to foreign teams.
MMA is a good player now.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
My mistake thought I was just out of the loop.
As far as Mvps neck/wrist problems go you would be surprised how many progamers deal with this pain when they play. I have talked to a few progamers about this and very few have no problems with wrist pain. Hell, I play way less then these guys and my wrists are always sore when I play.
The onlty reson he is not winning is because he is not as good as the people who are? As far as wrist problems 95% of pros have the same problem, Kinda cancels out the argument.
Mvp has spine problem. If you're saying 95% progamer have same problem I don't know what to say to you.
I have Scoliosis, I get stiff in my neck all the time, I have retarded tight hamstrings yet that never stopped me from being a really good rower or any other sport I do. Having bad back posture can result in all forms of discomfort. Anyway. you know your body better than anyone else and as an athlete it's you duty to know and say when something doesn't feel right (it should rarely resort to that if you're taking good care of your body). With carpal tunnel it can take a long time to develop and that's why it's important to always be doing maintenance. Do I feel sorry for Flash/MVP? Very little. I know how hard these guys push themselves and heck when you're playing in a lot of important games (and your team has certain expectations it's hard not to). In order to do that kind of stuff you really need to do your stretches and maintain a strict fitness regime.
On August 30 2013 12:59 Baroninthetree wrote: There no rumour that there will be a cataclysm news between 8.31 to 9.1 in Korean sc2 scene. I am guess, no more proleague.
I think KeSPA must have promised Jin Air a SPL '14, otherwise theres no acquisition of Team 8. Lets hope that the journalist doesnt mean negativity by "cataclysm"
On August 30 2013 12:59 Baroninthetree wrote: There no rumour that there will be a cataclysm news between 8.31 to 9.1 in Korean sc2 scene. I am guess, no more proleague.
I think KeSPA must have promised Jin Air a SPL '14, otherwise theres no acquisition of Team 8. Lets hope that the journalist doesnt mean negativity by "cataclysm"
doesnt seems quite positive to me.. oh maybe, maybe 12 team PL, that would be amazing
whiplash said in flash stream chat yesterday that proleague would be back. then again, he's just an english caster so it's possible he doesn't actually know anything.
On August 30 2013 14:45 negativedge wrote: whiplash said in flash stream chat yesterday that proleague would be back. then again, he's just an english caster so it's possible he doesn't actually know anything.
Of course it will be back. Otherwise why did they announce the big LoL transition a while back?
On August 30 2013 14:45 negativedge wrote: whiplash said in flash stream chat yesterday that proleague would be back. then again, he's just an english caster so it's possible he doesn't actually know anything.
Of course it will be back. Otherwise why did they announce the big LoL transition a while back?
On August 30 2013 14:45 negativedge wrote: whiplash said in flash stream chat yesterday that proleague would be back. then again, he's just an english caster so it's possible he doesn't actually know anything.
Of course it will be back. Otherwise why did they announce the big LoL transition a while back?
...
SC2 proleague, man. Come on, now.
LoL SPL and SC2 SPL may start at the same time. That's why it is going to be back and why I was talking about LoL.
On August 30 2013 15:36 larse wrote: OK. The rumor comes. SPL is delayed until next year. That's the cataclysm. Samsung is going LoL, and one more Zerg is retiring.
How is that even a cataclysm? Proleague always goes on break and this aligns with my prediction of Proleague waiting until the end of this last GSTL season before restarting for a unified Proleague.
Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
Wake me up when Mvp retires, that's the only cataclysm I care about.
In all seriousness I was expecting something like 4 teams disbanding and multiple additional veterans and high level players retiring. This is not exactly cataclysmic. I was already expecting a long delay until the next SPL and KHAN getting a LoL team surprises no one at all.
On August 30 2013 16:01 Dodgin wrote: Wake me up when Mvp retires, that's the only cataclysm I care about.
In all seriousness I was expecting something like 4 teams disbanding and multiple additional veterans and high level players retiring. This is not exactly cataclysmic. I was already expecting a long delay until the next SPL and KHAN getting a LoL team surprises no one at all.
INnoVation and Hyvaa were wearing GSL teamless black shirts in the Code S intro because their matches are after 1st September, the day their contract end and STX disbands, they would be teamless by then. While Trap and Dear play their groups this week, when they are still players contracted under STX SouL.
On August 30 2013 16:01 Dodgin wrote: Wake me up when Mvp retires, that's the only cataclysm I care about.
In all seriousness I was expecting something like 4 teams disbanding and multiple additional veterans and high level players retiring. This is not exactly cataclysmic. I was already expecting a long delay until the next SPL and KHAN getting a LoL team surprises no one at all.
On August 30 2013 15:53 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
you missed out the 1st part yooi laments at about how quickly proleague season had passed. kcm (proleague caster for spotv) replied telling yooi (proleague caster for spotv) to live well and wherever he goes he will do well. another unknown person replied that whatever yooi starts yooi finishes.
On August 30 2013 17:07 LymF wrote: Imagine if acer also picked up hyvaa
I was thinking he would be a good pick up for Axiom.
Hyvaa's okay I guess. There are a lot of other STX players I would want before him, but in terms of Zerg pick-ups? Yeah. He could help a lot of teams out there. Also, they have no reason to start PL until they get everyone on side. The Roster freeze between the eSF and KeSPA ends in October and they have to work it into the OGN schedule.
On August 30 2013 16:59 Gamegene wrote: SC2 gets a little darker every day
Don't be so melodramatic. A team or two are disbanding. The coaches lose their job when that happens.
A team that has been around forever. Obviously its because of their parent company, but still, its kinda saddening that the guys who just won Preleague are disbanding even though STX said they would fund the team for another year.
On August 30 2013 22:22 hangarninetysix wrote: As much fun as I had with it, SC2 killed Starcraft. It just sucks to watch compared to the original.
It has nothing to do with how popular it is. League of Legends is terrible to watch but is super popular.
Indeed. It's just a different world we live in today. Even if sc2 was the best rts ever, I still think it would fail in korea or at least still be behind LoL. LoL is just super casual friendly and everyone can go to the pc bangs to play with their friends. I don't think a hard 1v1 game can mass appeal to people over a team game these days, especially a f2p one. Lol has what 95% of playtime in korean pc bangs and number 1 for 50+ weeks I think. An rts in today's gaming climate just would never reach those numbers now.
Yep. People who think SC2 would be a lot more popular if it was way more like BW are deluded. If they made SC2 worse and more casual friendly it would be more successful. SC2 viewer numbers are actually really good when you consider how astronomically bigger LoL/Dota player numbers are.
On August 30 2013 22:22 hangarninetysix wrote: As much fun as I had with it, SC2 killed Starcraft. It just sucks to watch compared to the original.
It has nothing to do with how popular it is. League of Legends is terrible to watch but is super popular.
Indeed. It's just a different world we live in today. Even if sc2 was the best rts ever, I still think it would fail in korea or at least still be behind LoL. LoL is just super casual friendly and everyone can go to the pc bangs to play with their friends. I don't think a hard 1v1 game can mass appeal to people over a team game these days, especially a f2p one. Lol has what 95% of playtime in korean pc bangs and number 1 for 50+ weeks I think. An rts in today's gaming climate just would never reach those numbers now.
Not like people didn't go to PCBangs to play BW with their friends and what do you know a lot of them still do. Yes games are more casual/social media friendly more than ever, but if a product can stand on it's own and have a lot of different flavors/communities then it will go along way. There are a lot of things that could have been done different but didn't. No point going down the what if's route. At the end of the day both markets are niches, so what if one is bigger than the other.
On August 30 2013 22:22 hangarninetysix wrote: As much fun as I had with it, SC2 killed Starcraft. It just sucks to watch compared to the original.
It has nothing to do with how popular it is. League of Legends is terrible to watch but is super popular.
That's just your opinion. I on the other hand, enjoy watching the League of Throws.
I also enjoy watching League. SC2 can be the best spectator E-Sport in my opinion though, but only when every game doesn't play out the same. The metagame is too stale right now, and moving in the wrong direction in my opinion with things like the MSC, Swarmhost and Viper.
Very far from what he was.. or what he could be... remember the MMA/MVP era.. when does guys were close to unbeatable.
Yea but Mvp has fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team.
If there's one big lesson to be learnt it's that playing Terran at the highest level will eventually make your wrists implode.
MMA has wrist problems? only bad news today
Lol not sure if serious...
But in case you are: what I was getting at is that the only reason Mvp isn't winning tournaments left and right is because of his wrist issues. That's the explanation for him having "fallen about as far as MMA, and he isn't on a foreign team".
Excuses. I find it funny that wrist problems are only really plaguing players now. Yes, there were cases in Brood War but it's definitely more wide spread now and that's what years of playing video games will do.
Nope.
If you've read any Mvp interviews (which I'm inclined to believe you didn't) you'd know his case is pretty fucking excruciating to the point where can barely practice. That's also why he dropped the more micro-heavy style in favor of mech and mind-games.
As for your point that there were cases in Brood War, how many of them were champions that faltered because of this issue? Because I only know of FlaSh, and he's had his wrist problems treated through surgery.
Playing bio in SC2 is very heavy on the micro and multi-tasking, unless you're doing the sC/Bomber style parade push where you just macro really hard and rally across the map, and many top Terrans have suffered as a result of their playstyle choice.
iloveoov, though he fell in the shower :c
Boxer too, but his shoulder problems were more during his time as an SC2 pro (and why at the time he announced his retirement until HoTs came out, which turned into a full transition into coaching).
funnily enough another skt member, kingdom, was forced into retirement due to a reccuring shoulder problem from doing kendo
EPT
Nonetheless, thanks for the article and the time put into confirming this!
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