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Very confused as to how they ever could think buffing ultralisk health is good. It's the most arbitrary change out of any of them lately. Just no to that change. Zerg is already good, it's just the 1% top Korean Terrans happen to be the best.
As for mech armory change, surprisingly i'm going to say it's also a bad change, because it doesn't change anything at all with mech vs Protoss. The issue with mech vs Protoss are a few:
a) immortals overperform vs mech
b) Terran mech cannot upgrade their units at a reasonable time to keep up with Protoss
Often times you will have a 2/0/2 Protoss player vs a 1/0 mech Terran...the price of armories needs to be reduced, could care less about upgrades being combined. If armories were 100/50, then i could afford to actually build an armory shortly after factory tech to begin upgrading my mech units, or i could even afford two upgrades to upgrade my vehicle wep AND armor!
So the reason why i say the upgrade combination is bad is mostly because blizzard are going to pat themselves on the back thinking they've made mech better -_- when it's not going to change much, and it'll actually make mech stronger vs Zerg which is crazy because mech is more viable against Zerg than Protoss right now...
The overseer change...dunno about it, i personally don't like it because it makes the game "easier" for Zergs mechanically and it's just another arbitrary one but i doubt it'll break the game so whatever on that change @_@
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Its too bad we can't just have some simple change like make it so mines will explode changelings so you have a free way of defusing mines or something amusing.
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Ultralisk buff, are you serious? Oo
Zerg struggles transitioning from ling bling muta into hive in TvZ but as soon as ultras are on the field if the game is remotely even zerg is literally invincible on creep unless you fight on a single ramp. They're insanely strong and require the absolute minimal amount of micro possible to use. Nothing is more fun than being run over by 14 ultras on 1a.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 16:28 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Its too bad we can't just have some simple change like make it so mines will explode changelings so you have a free way of defusing mines or something amusing.
Exploding on changelings could have some hilarious consequences. Especially if there is couple of changelings stickied to terran's bio ball :D
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50 health is pretty much when you have to dish out the damage on 10+ ultras
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 16:29 TheKhyira wrote:
Ultralisk buff, are you serious? Oo
Zerg struggles transitioning from ling bling muta into hive in TvZ but as soon as ultras are on the field if the game is remotely even zerg is literally invincible on creep unless you fight on a single ramp. They're insanely strong and require the absolute minimal amount of micro possible to use. Nothing is more fun than being run over by 14 ultras on 1a.
14 ultras?
Uhem, 14x300/200=4200/2800 in army. I am not sure if the game was even, if you can afford that many resources to spare and stay alive against terran for those 55 seconds.
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Ultralisk buff o_O. Like they aren't strong enough already.
I don't think the whole combine upgrades thing is what will fix mech at all... they really need some unit changes.
Overseer speed buff seems reasonable.
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Blizzard really dropping the ball with their recent approach to balance, skirting around the true issue - widow mine cost efficiency against zerg.
A widow mine that costs 75/25 (the same as a roach) and on its first firing only needs to destroy 1 baneling (50/25) + 1 zergling (25/0) to pay for itself completely. The upside gain for Terran is absurd - you often see single mines paying for themselves TEN times over in a single shot. A zerg player has to find each mine, while using an overseer, and kill it (while its protected by a bio army) without losing more than ~4 zerglings (100/0 is approx 75/25) PER MINE. And that's only accounting for its first shot. Utter insanity, when you consider that a mine doesn't just trade cost effectively, it offers space control and limits zergs movements and limits ALL zerg units speed to that of the overseer.
There isn't even a tradeoff for Terran - there is no such thing as too many mines, nor do mines become less worthwhile past a certain point in the game, nor do they become less worthwhile based on zerg's unit comp. They always retain their insane cost effectiveness and are not difficult to get quickly (reactored fact), low on the tech tree and cheap as dirt.
There are implications with buffing everything surrounding the true issue rather than just nerfing the sole problem. The more you buff zerg units with the pretense of the widow mine in its current state, in order to get win rates closer to 50%-50%, the more shaky your foundations of balance become. Somewhere down the line, the widow mine will not be able to be adjusted at all balance-wise because everything has formed around it. Can you imagine if we had:
Vipers full energy
Ultralisk +50 hp
Overseers super fast
And the widow mine then got nerfed or became disfavoured by terrans and no longer used in the meta (ie the comeback of tanks)? Winrates would topple over in the zerg's favour overnight in a ridiculously hilarious fashion.
I may be being cynical, but in my mind Blizzard's newfound hardheadessness is a threat to the game I enjoy so much.
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On August 20 2013 16:35 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I don't think the whole combine upgrades thing is what will fix mech at all... they really need some unit changes.
Now blizzard has a valid reason for not buffing/redesigning mech: "buffing mech would make starports transition too powerful due to shared upgrades. But as always we're going to keep a close(d) eye on it". 
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Vs mass widow mines... morph in 10 overseers and charge over the bio.... win?!
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On August 20 2013 16:34 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 16:29 TheKhyira wrote:
Ultralisk buff, are you serious? Oo
Zerg struggles transitioning from ling bling muta into hive in TvZ but as soon as ultras are on the field if the game is remotely even zerg is literally invincible on creep unless you fight on a single ramp. They're insanely strong and require the absolute minimal amount of micro possible to use. Nothing is more fun than being run over by 14 ultras on 1a. 14 ultras? Uhem, 14x300/200=4200/2800 in army. I am not sure if the game was even, if you can afford that many resources to spare and stay alive against terran for those 55 seconds.
You go up to 6, then you sit, then you sit some more and ta-da! maxed out ultras.
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What an absolute JOKE. ultras are already insanely strong. The problem for zerg is actually being able to get them out.
I really cannot believe some of these changes they are putting out lately, this is just really disheartening.
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On August 20 2013 16:39 contv wrote:
There isn't even a tradeoff for Terran - there is no such thing as too many mines, nor do mines become less worthwhile past a certain point in the game, nor do they become less worthwhile based on zerg's unit comp. They always retain their insane cost effectiveness and are not difficult to get quickly (reactored fact), low on the tech tree and cheap as dirt.
Mines are supply heavy. There is definitely a thing as too many mines as your real army value can drop too low to win fights.
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On August 20 2013 16:48 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 16:39 contv wrote:
There isn't even a tradeoff for Terran - there is no such thing as too many mines, nor do mines become less worthwhile past a certain point in the game, nor do they become less worthwhile based on zerg's unit comp. They always retain their insane cost effectiveness and are not difficult to get quickly (reactored fact), low on the tech tree and cheap as dirt.
Mines are supply heavy. There is definitely a thing as too many mines as your real army value can drop too low to win fights.
Not to mention friendly fire.
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This Ultralisk buff is not gonna be a good one... The zerg struggle with TvZ is not in the lategame, it is in the stage where the terran can keep throwing MMMM at him until he can get up ultralisks. Once ultralisks are out, and static defense gets built, the match-up no longer favors the terran players. 50 more health with 6 armor, that is just a sick sick sick buff...
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Just nerf the damn Widdow Mine.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 16:45 TheKhyira wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 16:34 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 20 2013 16:29 TheKhyira wrote:
Ultralisk buff, are you serious? Oo
Zerg struggles transitioning from ling bling muta into hive in TvZ but as soon as ultras are on the field if the game is remotely even zerg is literally invincible on creep unless you fight on a single ramp. They're insanely strong and require the absolute minimal amount of micro possible to use. Nothing is more fun than being run over by 14 ultras on 1a. 14 ultras? Uhem, 14x300/200=4200/2800 in army. I am not sure if the game was even, if you can afford that many resources to spare and stay alive against terran for those 55 seconds. You go up to 6, then you sit, then you sit some more and ta-da! maxed out ultras.
I remember seeing one such TvZ, where zerg did go to 6 ultras and was sitting around on creep. He lost approximately 6 hatcheries just by rallied rounds of units from few barracks into his fringe bases. It was pretty cute seeing zerg running around map, catching those annoying 4 marauders, that sniped hatch and went home, all the while trying not to get his infestors caught in a random mine shots
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might aswell buff marines whilst your at it too blizz...
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first of all its awesome that blizz keeps on buffing stuff instead of nerfing it.
overseer buff is nice and needed. upgrade buff is nice since T players are able to transition from mech to air or bio to mech/air easier now.
ultra buff...hmm. its okay i guess since ultras are still weak in ZvP lategame (ZvP = SHs or die) and are too bad offcreep and too good oncreep lategame ZvT if you reach it on equal footing. and heres the problem...you dont reach it on equal footing vs equally skilled opponent.
still like the ultrabuff. now the next buffs should be lairtech buff to Z harrass (ovidrop, nydus, burrowmovement) and give hydras some +bio dmg while also buffing tanks and reduce BC build time so both mech and bio into mech gets better while staying on bio all game gets worse.
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its been said throughout the thread, one of the biggest struggles for zergs in zvt seems to be time. there simply is not enough time to get up enough resources to transition into hive tech without taking serious losses to 2/2 bio mine.
we'd be better off seeing nerfs to widow mine build time and buffs to ultralisk build time rather than having ultralisks suddenly get a huge health boost - this has the chance of turning ZvP on its head and having basically no effect on ZvT.
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EPT
