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740 CommentsPost a Reply
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ysnake
Profile Joined June 2012
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
August 26 2013 09:26 GMT
#721
On August 26 2013 18:21 Antylamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 18:18 ysnake wrote:
How can I get to Terran's production buildings?

Read.

Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 18:06 Rabiator wrote:
This does NOT mean Mutalisks but rather Overlord drops. Sure the Terran could have some mines at home, but if you are smart enough to make a decently big attack AND start early enough to do it you shouldnt get into really seriously big trouble. Obviously you need decent defense at home to be reasonably safe against any counter harrassment and this means Spine and Spore Crawlers.


I thought by now you know that Zerg does not have any Tier 1 or Tier 2 cost-efficient units unlike Terran. And the post above me covered it why Zerg cannot drop. They just can't.
You are no longer automatically breathing and blinking.
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-26 09:27:50
August 26 2013 09:27 GMT
#722
On August 26 2013 18:26 ysnake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 18:21 Antylamon wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:18 ysnake wrote:
How can I get to Terran's production buildings?

Read.

On August 26 2013 18:06 Rabiator wrote:
This does NOT mean Mutalisks but rather Overlord drops. Sure the Terran could have some mines at home, but if you are smart enough to make a decently big attack AND start early enough to do it you shouldnt get into really seriously big trouble. Obviously you need decent defense at home to be reasonably safe against any counter harrassment and this means Spine and Spore Crawlers.


I thought by now you know that Zerg does not have any Tier 1 or Tier 2 cost-efficient units unlike Terran. And the post above me covered it why Zerg cannot drop. They just can't.

I'm not saying it's possible. I wasn't the one who posted it, if that's what you're thinking.
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
August 26 2013 09:27 GMT
#723
On August 26 2013 18:21 Antylamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 18:18 ysnake wrote:
How can I get to Terran's production buildings?

Read.

Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 18:06 Rabiator wrote:
This does NOT mean Mutalisks but rather Overlord drops. Sure the Terran could have some mines at home, but if you are smart enough to make a decently big attack AND start early enough to do it you shouldnt get into really seriously big trouble. Obviously you need decent defense at home to be reasonably safe against any counter harrassment and this means Spine and Spore Crawlers.


That's just not true. If you want to defend against drops with just static D you're in for a nasty surprise. You just can't really do it. Medivacs heal and there will always be ONE angle where you can attack in relatively impunity. You really need units to effectively deal with drops and Mutalisks are the only unit mobile enough to do so. Lings are fast but they don't fly like Medivacs do.

Also what does a "decently big attack" mean? Attack Terran's ramp? Unless you're going all-in or you're really ahead you're never going to trade effectively by attacking Terran's front wall. Not against the range advantage Terran has.

What you're describing just isn't viable.
maru lover forever
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
August 26 2013 09:28 GMT
#724
On August 26 2013 18:27 Incognoto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 18:21 Antylamon wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:18 ysnake wrote:
How can I get to Terran's production buildings?

Read.

On August 26 2013 18:06 Rabiator wrote:
This does NOT mean Mutalisks but rather Overlord drops. Sure the Terran could have some mines at home, but if you are smart enough to make a decently big attack AND start early enough to do it you shouldnt get into really seriously big trouble. Obviously you need decent defense at home to be reasonably safe against any counter harrassment and this means Spine and Spore Crawlers.


That's just not true. If you want to defend against drops with just static D you're in for a nasty surprise. You just can't really do it. Medivacs heal and there will always be ONE angle where you can attack in relatively impunity. You really need units to effectively deal with drops and Mutalisks are the only unit mobile enough to do so. Lings are fast but they don't fly like Medivacs do.

Also what does a "decently big attack" mean? Attack Terran's ramp? Unless you're going all-in or you're really ahead you're never going to trade effectively by attacking Terran's front wall. Not against the range advantage Terran has.

What you're describing just isn't viable.

Guys, it's not my idea. ._.
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
August 26 2013 09:30 GMT
#725
On August 26 2013 18:28 Antylamon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 18:27 Incognoto wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:21 Antylamon wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:18 ysnake wrote:
How can I get to Terran's production buildings?

Read.

On August 26 2013 18:06 Rabiator wrote:
This does NOT mean Mutalisks but rather Overlord drops. Sure the Terran could have some mines at home, but if you are smart enough to make a decently big attack AND start early enough to do it you shouldnt get into really seriously big trouble. Obviously you need decent defense at home to be reasonably safe against any counter harrassment and this means Spine and Spore Crawlers.


That's just not true. If you want to defend against drops with just static D you're in for a nasty surprise. You just can't really do it. Medivacs heal and there will always be ONE angle where you can attack in relatively impunity. You really need units to effectively deal with drops and Mutalisks are the only unit mobile enough to do so. Lings are fast but they don't fly like Medivacs do.

Also what does a "decently big attack" mean? Attack Terran's ramp? Unless you're going all-in or you're really ahead you're never going to trade effectively by attacking Terran's front wall. Not against the range advantage Terran has.

What you're describing just isn't viable.

Guys, it's not my idea. ._.


Well, let's say I'm trying to beat down an idea that's not yours then. :p heheh

I love these discussions actually, just discussing RTS is almost as fun as playing it. ^^
maru lover forever
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
August 26 2013 10:40 GMT
#726
I guess widow mines were intended to tank for siege tanks in mech also? I suppose you don't see that so much because they compete with tanks for gas. If widow mines only costed minerals but were a bit weaker maybe they could work out, but then they would compete with hellions I suppose.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
August 26 2013 11:01 GMT
#727
On August 26 2013 19:40 Grumbels wrote:
I guess widow mines were intended to tank for siege tanks in mech also? I suppose you don't see that so much because they compete with tanks for gas. If widow mines only costed minerals but were a bit weaker maybe they could work out, but then they would compete with hellions I suppose.


I think the main ideas were to give Terran a little easier time to shut down counter attacks with mechplay and to give Mech a cheaper goto antiair unit. Because though Thors are quite a strong Antiair unit, it's very hard productionwise to get a good count of them or to reproduce enough antiair once they have been traded with ground units.
fdsdfg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1251 Posts
August 26 2013 14:38 GMT
#728
On August 26 2013 18:25 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Everytime the Zergs lose large numbers of their units it's because X unit is imba.
Banshee opening, ERHMERGERD IT'S SO HARD QQ; Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Thor drop opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran is too efficient, Q_Q, Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Bunker rush opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran has too many options!!! Nerf to the face...


Are you trying to say Terran's were never too powerful, and your proof is that they have been repeatedly nerfed?
aka Siyko
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
August 26 2013 14:56 GMT
#729
On August 26 2013 23:38 fdsdfg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 18:25 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Everytime the Zergs lose large numbers of their units it's because X unit is imba.
Banshee opening, ERHMERGERD IT'S SO HARD QQ; Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Thor drop opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran is too efficient, Q_Q, Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Bunker rush opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran has too many options!!! Nerf to the face...


Are you trying to say Terran's were never too powerful, and your proof is that they have been repeatedly nerfed?


Yes. SC2 has been whittled down to bone and the attendances show. Don't deny the truth.
In pandering to a specific player group, SC2 numbers did not grow as expected. I have seen too many games fail because developers pandered to the loudest group (Oh Master of Magic! I knew thee well!!)
Cauterize the area
fdsdfg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1251 Posts
August 26 2013 15:00 GMT
#730
On August 26 2013 23:56 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 23:38 fdsdfg wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:25 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Everytime the Zergs lose large numbers of their units it's because X unit is imba.
Banshee opening, ERHMERGERD IT'S SO HARD QQ; Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Thor drop opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran is too efficient, Q_Q, Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Bunker rush opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran has too many options!!! Nerf to the face...


Are you trying to say Terran's were never too powerful, and your proof is that they have been repeatedly nerfed?


Yes.


Okay. You should realize that makes you incredibly hard to take seriously.
aka Siyko
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
August 26 2013 15:29 GMT
#731
On August 26 2013 23:56 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 23:38 fdsdfg wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:25 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Everytime the Zergs lose large numbers of their units it's because X unit is imba.
Banshee opening, ERHMERGERD IT'S SO HARD QQ; Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Thor drop opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran is too efficient, Q_Q, Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Bunker rush opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran has too many options!!! Nerf to the face...


Are you trying to say Terran's were never too powerful, and your proof is that they have been repeatedly nerfed?


Yes. SC2 has been whittled down to bone and the attendances show. Don't deny the truth.
In pandering to a specific player group, SC2 numbers did not grow as expected. I have seen too many games fail because developers pandered to the loudest group (Oh Master of Magic! I knew thee well!!)


1) Your logic is terrible.

2) If Blizzard were pandering to the loudest crowd:
We wouldn't have Warp Gate
We wouldn't have the Colossus
We wouldn't have force field
Siege Tanks would be awesome
Carriers would build a lot faster than 90 seconds
Gateway units would be much more formitable in straight-up fights


3) Why the hell am i coming in and responding to your stupid post?
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
August 26 2013 15:44 GMT
#732
On August 27 2013 00:29 Jermstuddog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 23:56 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On August 26 2013 23:38 fdsdfg wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:25 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Everytime the Zergs lose large numbers of their units it's because X unit is imba.
Banshee opening, ERHMERGERD IT'S SO HARD QQ; Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Thor drop opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran is too efficient, Q_Q, Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Bunker rush opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran has too many options!!! Nerf to the face...


Are you trying to say Terran's were never too powerful, and your proof is that they have been repeatedly nerfed?


Yes. SC2 has been whittled down to bone and the attendances show. Don't deny the truth.
In pandering to a specific player group, SC2 numbers did not grow as expected. I have seen too many games fail because developers pandered to the loudest group (Oh Master of Magic! I knew thee well!!)


1) Your logic is terrible.

2) If Blizzard were pandering to the loudest crowd:
We wouldn't have Warp Gate
We wouldn't have the Colossus
We wouldn't have force field
Siege Tanks would be awesome
Carriers would build a lot faster than 90 seconds
Gateway units would be much more formitable in straight-up fights


3) Why the hell am i coming in and responding to your stupid post?


answer to 3): so that his fantasizing doesn't become the loudest group.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
August 26 2013 16:57 GMT
#733
it's getting out of hand, 16 of my first 20 games to start the ladder this season were vs terran. holy shit.
I come in for the scraps
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-26 18:23:29
August 26 2013 18:22 GMT
#734
I just wish Tanks got improved so that it would be actually be possible to play mech outside of TvT. I gladly accept nerfs to widow mines and medivacs if necessary.

If Blizzard are afraid of Tanks being too strong in early timing attacks, just keep the base damage the same and increase the effect of tank damage upgrades.

SsDrKosS
Profile Joined March 2013
330 Posts
August 27 2013 12:38 GMT
#735
On August 27 2013 00:29 Jermstuddog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 23:56 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On August 26 2013 23:38 fdsdfg wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:25 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Everytime the Zergs lose large numbers of their units it's because X unit is imba.
Banshee opening, ERHMERGERD IT'S SO HARD QQ; Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Thor drop opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran is too efficient, Q_Q, Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Bunker rush opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran has too many options!!! Nerf to the face...


Are you trying to say Terran's were never too powerful, and your proof is that they have been repeatedly nerfed?


Yes. SC2 has been whittled down to bone and the attendances show. Don't deny the truth.
In pandering to a specific player group, SC2 numbers did not grow as expected. I have seen too many games fail because developers pandered to the loudest group (Oh Master of Magic! I knew thee well!!)


1) Your logic is terrible.

2) If Blizzard were pandering to the loudest crowd:
We wouldn't have Warp Gate
We wouldn't have the Colossus
We wouldn't have force field
Siege Tanks would be awesome
Carriers would build a lot faster than 90 seconds
Gateway units would be much more formitable in straight-up fights


3) Why the hell am i coming in and responding to your stupid post?


I know ppl will tear me apart by saying this...
even after many years passes by, I STILL WANT MY REAVER INSTEAD OF COLOSSUS!!!
My biggest reason of race switch :p

+ Show Spoiler +
so I personally want ALL of what you have listed which are'not to be happened
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
August 27 2013 12:45 GMT
#736
On August 27 2013 21:38 SsDrKosS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2013 00:29 Jermstuddog wrote:
On August 26 2013 23:56 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On August 26 2013 23:38 fdsdfg wrote:
On August 26 2013 18:25 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Everytime the Zergs lose large numbers of their units it's because X unit is imba.
Banshee opening, ERHMERGERD IT'S SO HARD QQ; Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Thor drop opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran is too efficient, Q_Q, Dustin, "Come David, to the nerf cave!"
Bunker rush opening, ERHMERGERD MAH QUEEN, Terran has too many options!!! Nerf to the face...


Are you trying to say Terran's were never too powerful, and your proof is that they have been repeatedly nerfed?


Yes. SC2 has been whittled down to bone and the attendances show. Don't deny the truth.
In pandering to a specific player group, SC2 numbers did not grow as expected. I have seen too many games fail because developers pandered to the loudest group (Oh Master of Magic! I knew thee well!!)


1) Your logic is terrible.

2) If Blizzard were pandering to the loudest crowd:
We wouldn't have Warp Gate
We wouldn't have the Colossus
We wouldn't have force field
Siege Tanks would be awesome
Carriers would build a lot faster than 90 seconds
Gateway units would be much more formitable in straight-up fights


3) Why the hell am i coming in and responding to your stupid post?


I know ppl will tear me apart by saying this...
even after many years passes by, I STILL WANT MY REAVER INSTEAD OF COLOSSUS!!!
My biggest reason of race switch :p

+ Show Spoiler +
so I personally want ALL of what you have listed which are'not to be happened


What I listed are the core bits of the mantra that has proceeded around SC2 since WoL was released.

But Blizzard in their mighty knowledge refuses to give the community what they ask for, instead, we will play the game that Blizzard has designed for us! Because we don't know what we want!

BTW I hate that game design logic, it's fucking terrible and it makes for bad games: see EQ, Diablo 3, SC2, and countless other games where the design team thinks they know better than their community.

I am not trying to undermine the position of lead designer, I'm happy to have people like DK trying their best to make the game balanced, but too many of them, including the team in charge of SC2 forget the fact that a game needs to be FUN before it's balanced, and SC2 HotS is turning out to be not very fun at all...
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
August 27 2013 12:53 GMT
#737
On August 27 2013 21:38 SsDrKosS wrote:
I know ppl will tear me apart by saying this...
even after many years passes by, I STILL WANT MY REAVER INSTEAD OF COLOSSUS!!!
My biggest reason of race switch :p

+ Show Spoiler +
so I personally want ALL of what you have listed which are'not to be happened

I want my Reaver back because it's cool, but when another race has a strong AoE unit forcing caution/micro from the opponent:

On August 27 2013 21:47 SsDrKosS wrote:
Come on blizzard, just nerf WM.

Double standards much?
SsDrKosS
Profile Joined March 2013
330 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-27 13:00:55
August 27 2013 13:00 GMT
#738
On August 27 2013 21:53 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2013 21:38 SsDrKosS wrote:
I know ppl will tear me apart by saying this...
even after many years passes by, I STILL WANT MY REAVER INSTEAD OF COLOSSUS!!!
My biggest reason of race switch :p

+ Show Spoiler +
so I personally want ALL of what you have listed which are'not to be happened

I want my Reaver back because it's cool, but when another race has a strong AoE unit forcing caution/micro from the opponent:

Show nested quote +
On August 27 2013 21:47 SsDrKosS wrote:
Come on blizzard, just nerf WM.

Double standards much?


I was just saying it you know.
btw wm and reaver is very different apart from the fact that they does tons of dmg per shot
wm is just too imba compare to reaver (reaver is expensive, higher tech/no reactor/burrow attack, etc )
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
August 27 2013 13:11 GMT
#739
I wish they'd do the changes they discussed on Inside the Game. Zerg 3-3 on lair tech would open so many new option and/or making the individual nydus worms cheaper would also be a great great option to get this fun mechanic more into the game.

These would be way more interesting than just increasing the Ultralisks health further, which already is a really really strong unit, in my opinion.

It actually blows my mind that they haven't made any changes to the Nydus since release. It's been concluded so many times that the investment for this is too much.

But the game is pretty fine so It's not like this is in a hurry to get here for me. I just hope they make the right changes!
"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
midnight999
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States257 Posts
August 27 2013 20:52 GMT
#740
On August 27 2013 22:00 SsDrKosS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2013 21:53 TheDwf wrote:
On August 27 2013 21:38 SsDrKosS wrote:
I know ppl will tear me apart by saying this...
even after many years passes by, I STILL WANT MY REAVER INSTEAD OF COLOSSUS!!!
My biggest reason of race switch :p

+ Show Spoiler +
so I personally want ALL of what you have listed which are'not to be happened

I want my Reaver back because it's cool, but when another race has a strong AoE unit forcing caution/micro from the opponent:

On August 27 2013 21:47 SsDrKosS wrote:
Come on blizzard, just nerf WM.

Double standards much?


I was just saying it you know.
btw wm and reaver is very different apart from the fact that they does tons of dmg per shot
wm is just too imba compare to reaver (reaver is expensive, higher tech/no reactor/burrow attack, etc )


Plus reaver scarabs dont affect air.
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