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On August 21 2013 07:48 shockaslim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 07:30 DinoMight wrote:
Medivac boost is the stupidest thing. Why is it in the game? It's pretty much the reason that Photon Overcharge is in the game at all...
They made Muta faster.
They introduced Medivac boost for God knows what reason... so they could escape from Muta?
Then they gave Protoss Photon Overcharge to deal with faster Medivacs and faster Muta?
Now Terran complains they can't drop because of Photon Overcharge and Zerg complains they have to go Muta because of Medivacs.
My BRAIN HURTS
I seriously do not understand why people complain about medivac boost so much. The medivacs are not coming out any faster. The medivacs are not getting to your base that much faster. If you have units in place like you would for medivac drops in WoL you can shut them down the same way. Mutalisks will STILL catch a medivac in the open when the boost is gone. If anything it helps terran so they can retreat and at least keep the medivacs instead of losing everything in a fight.
It makes the possibility of drops going out of control way higher. Even the best zergs in the world will crumble eventually once the medivacs number gets too high cause its impossible to defend all locations. With medivac boosters the terran will get away most of the time.
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I think the key thing they need to change for the tvz match up is the viper. atm it hard counters mech and does nothing against bio. what they need to do is find a middle ground where it is effective against both bio and mech but does not completely wreck them. If only they listened to the ideas that come up here though. i have seen several ideas to how it could be changed to make it a good skill here on the forums but it seems like its falling on deaf ears, the buffs here are good ones but they wont make a huge difference in pro level play.
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On August 21 2013 07:00 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 06:54 DrBeansy wrote:On August 21 2013 05:42 dabom88 wrote:
We're all pretty much in agreement that the transition to Hive tech is where the balance problems are centered around.
So let's discuss Lair tech aka TvZ Midgame.
Now, during TvZ midgame, Terran Drops are aplenty. As HotS has shown time and time again, if you don't have a way to effectively deal with Medivac drops on an at least semi-consistent basis, you WILL lose. Whether it be in TvZ, TvP, or TvT.
The increased speed of the medivac, combined with the Fungal Growth nerf in the transition to HotS, makes it so that Mutas are almost absolutely necessary to combat it.
And Mutas go great with another mobile army, in this case, Ling/Bling
Now, Mutas/Ling/Bling matches up pretty well against MMMM, until you hit a certain point. And that certain point is when the Bio reaches 3/3. Zergs need 3/3 Melee in order to match up against MMMM, which becomes ridiculously cost-effective at 3/3. Otherwise they'll just be continuously fighting from a deficit.
So the fixes should be focused around Zerg 3/3 Melee/Ground armor.
So if the issue is 3/3, and Blizzard seems to want to approach HotS balance with a Buff approach (as opposed to nerfing) why not make 3/3 Melee/Ground armor at a slightly lower tier?
Let's experiment with 3/3 at Infestation Pit. At least for Melee and Ground Armor. It's certainly not going to effect early game too much, as Zergs are still going to need to go through 2/2 and getting an Infestation Pit. Heck, why not just try putting 3/3 for all Zerg units on Infestation Pit, and if it's too much, then scaling back to just Melee/Ground Armor.
It seems a lot fairer to just require an Infestation Pit, since it fits more with the other races. Terrans are going to get a Factory anyway, 2/2 and 3/3 just require one step above that, which is an Armory. Protoss are absolutely going to get a Cybernetics Core anyway, 2/2 and 3/3 are just one step above that, which is a Twilight Council.
If Zergs are going to be going Lair in the midgame anyway, just let them be okay with 1 step above that, Infestation Pit. In this case, 3/3 will serve as a nice transition to Hive tech instead of Hive being a risky transition to 3/3.
i.e. it'll make it so that the Zerg 3/3 upgrades require the same amount of tier steps as Terran and Protoss.
Terran:
1. Command Center
2. Barracks
3. Factory
4. Armory.
Protoss:
1. Nexus
2. Gateway
3. Cyber Core
4. Twilight Council
Zerg
1. Hatchery
2. Spawning Pool
3. Lair
4. Infestation Pit. as i've said countless times - just allow hive from spire It doesn't make sense for tech to be unlocked from one of two possible buildings, there has been nothing like that in all of Starcraft (or Warcraft for that matter). It seems like a fix for the only purpose of fixing one matchup which is bad especially because the fix itself is awkward and unprecedented.
Pretty much this. Letting you to also get Hive from Spire is just a bad idea. It doesn't make any sense, no other tech tree is like that.
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in case no one has brought it up, ultralisks, at least for me, are an issue in PvZ. zergs will stay on lings and go straight for fast ultra, while i try to prepare for roach or hydra or SH or muta. maybe it's just me, but i already can't figure out how to efficiently deal with ultralisks.
some help here would be good...
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Aside from considering moving the Viper to Lair tech, there's another route they could go. One that's been a very long time coming....they buff the corruptor.
I seem to recall David Kim mentioning that they wanted to change that unit for HotS because it was so boring to watch compared to Vikings and Phoenixes in WoL. HotS came. Nothing was done and it seems to have just flown under the radar since.
I've watched Yugioh go roach/ling/bane/corruptor before and thought if corrutors were just a little bit better this could really have potential. If they just had some other advantage over mutas besides being able to tank more damage to snipe medivacs during engagements. Hell you could maybe even still go muta/ling but mix these in as support casters. So what I prepose:
- Corruption cooldown is increased from 45s to 70s
- The duration remains at 30s
- The cost of a Corruptor is increased from 150/100 to 200/100
- Corruptor speed is increased from 2.9531 to 3 (same as a speed roach off creep. Could help a little with medivac sniping)
- Corruption is now an aoe projectile that reduces all upgrades (attack/armor/shields) by 1 with a radius of 2. (Essentially fungal growth with a different effect). Additionally, it doesn't stack and is capped at 0/0/0 reduction.
The unit is now more interesting to watch, very accessible at Lair (especially since you're likely to get a spire in both ZvT and ZvP), has a unique role as the only unit that can debuff upgrades, and would have even better lategame utility.
Maybe the stats I'm preposing are a bit off, but that's not really what's important. It's the concept. Essentially, I'm looking for something similar to the Devourer that's pre-Hive.
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On August 21 2013 08:42 fenix404 wrote:
in case no one has brought it up, ultralisks, at least for me, are an issue in PvZ. zergs will stay on lings and go straight for fast ultra, while i try to prepare for roach or hydra or SH or muta. maybe it's just me, but i already can't figure out how to efficiently deal with ultralisks.
some help here would be good...
-_- try to prepare for what you scout then.
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You can buff late game Z all you want but if they cant get to the late game somewhat safely, then the ultra buff is useless. Zerg needs some sort of mid game buff against T to help them out.
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On August 21 2013 08:42 fenix404 wrote:
in case no one has brought it up, ultralisks, at least for me, are an issue in PvZ. zergs will stay on lings and go straight for fast ultra, while i try to prepare for roach or hydra or SH or muta. maybe it's just me, but i already can't figure out how to efficiently deal with ultralisks.
some help here would be good...
It's really not hard for protoss to deal with ultralisks.
Archon/immortal/templar/colossi/voidray deals well with ultra based compositions. Like yeah This health buff is 1 extra immortal shot, not that big of a deal.
Don't know if this is the right solution to try and fix zvt, but at least blizzard is aware.
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On August 21 2013 08:38 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 07:00 gobbledydook wrote:On August 21 2013 06:54 DrBeansy wrote:On August 21 2013 05:42 dabom88 wrote:
We're all pretty much in agreement that the transition to Hive tech is where the balance problems are centered around.
So let's discuss Lair tech aka TvZ Midgame.
Now, during TvZ midgame, Terran Drops are aplenty. As HotS has shown time and time again, if you don't have a way to effectively deal with Medivac drops on an at least semi-consistent basis, you WILL lose. Whether it be in TvZ, TvP, or TvT.
The increased speed of the medivac, combined with the Fungal Growth nerf in the transition to HotS, makes it so that Mutas are almost absolutely necessary to combat it.
And Mutas go great with another mobile army, in this case, Ling/Bling
Now, Mutas/Ling/Bling matches up pretty well against MMMM, until you hit a certain point. And that certain point is when the Bio reaches 3/3. Zergs need 3/3 Melee in order to match up against MMMM, which becomes ridiculously cost-effective at 3/3. Otherwise they'll just be continuously fighting from a deficit.
So the fixes should be focused around Zerg 3/3 Melee/Ground armor.
So if the issue is 3/3, and Blizzard seems to want to approach HotS balance with a Buff approach (as opposed to nerfing) why not make 3/3 Melee/Ground armor at a slightly lower tier?
Let's experiment with 3/3 at Infestation Pit. At least for Melee and Ground Armor. It's certainly not going to effect early game too much, as Zergs are still going to need to go through 2/2 and getting an Infestation Pit. Heck, why not just try putting 3/3 for all Zerg units on Infestation Pit, and if it's too much, then scaling back to just Melee/Ground Armor.
It seems a lot fairer to just require an Infestation Pit, since it fits more with the other races. Terrans are going to get a Factory anyway, 2/2 and 3/3 just require one step above that, which is an Armory. Protoss are absolutely going to get a Cybernetics Core anyway, 2/2 and 3/3 are just one step above that, which is a Twilight Council.
If Zergs are going to be going Lair in the midgame anyway, just let them be okay with 1 step above that, Infestation Pit. In this case, 3/3 will serve as a nice transition to Hive tech instead of Hive being a risky transition to 3/3.
i.e. it'll make it so that the Zerg 3/3 upgrades require the same amount of tier steps as Terran and Protoss.
Terran:
1. Command Center
2. Barracks
3. Factory
4. Armory.
Protoss:
1. Nexus
2. Gateway
3. Cyber Core
4. Twilight Council
Zerg
1. Hatchery
2. Spawning Pool
3. Lair
4. Infestation Pit. as i've said countless times - just allow hive from spire It doesn't make sense for tech to be unlocked from one of two possible buildings, there has been nothing like that in all of Starcraft (or Warcraft for that matter). It seems like a fix for the only purpose of fixing one matchup which is bad especially because the fix itself is awkward and unprecedented. Pretty much this. Letting you to also get Hive from Spire is just a bad idea. It doesn't make any sense, no other tech tree is like that.
While I don't necessarily agree with the poster that spire unlocking hive would be a good change, saying "it's just a bad idea" and "no other tech tree is like that" or "it's unprecedented" is literally the worst kind of feedback to give on an idea.
Basically you just argued "it's bad because it's bad" and then "it's bad because it's different".
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On August 21 2013 08:38 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 07:00 gobbledydook wrote:On August 21 2013 06:54 DrBeansy wrote:On August 21 2013 05:42 dabom88 wrote:
We're all pretty much in agreement that the transition to Hive tech is where the balance problems are centered around.
So let's discuss Lair tech aka TvZ Midgame.
Now, during TvZ midgame, Terran Drops are aplenty. As HotS has shown time and time again, if you don't have a way to effectively deal with Medivac drops on an at least semi-consistent basis, you WILL lose. Whether it be in TvZ, TvP, or TvT.
The increased speed of the medivac, combined with the Fungal Growth nerf in the transition to HotS, makes it so that Mutas are almost absolutely necessary to combat it.
And Mutas go great with another mobile army, in this case, Ling/Bling
Now, Mutas/Ling/Bling matches up pretty well against MMMM, until you hit a certain point. And that certain point is when the Bio reaches 3/3. Zergs need 3/3 Melee in order to match up against MMMM, which becomes ridiculously cost-effective at 3/3. Otherwise they'll just be continuously fighting from a deficit.
So the fixes should be focused around Zerg 3/3 Melee/Ground armor.
So if the issue is 3/3, and Blizzard seems to want to approach HotS balance with a Buff approach (as opposed to nerfing) why not make 3/3 Melee/Ground armor at a slightly lower tier?
Let's experiment with 3/3 at Infestation Pit. At least for Melee and Ground Armor. It's certainly not going to effect early game too much, as Zergs are still going to need to go through 2/2 and getting an Infestation Pit. Heck, why not just try putting 3/3 for all Zerg units on Infestation Pit, and if it's too much, then scaling back to just Melee/Ground Armor.
It seems a lot fairer to just require an Infestation Pit, since it fits more with the other races. Terrans are going to get a Factory anyway, 2/2 and 3/3 just require one step above that, which is an Armory. Protoss are absolutely going to get a Cybernetics Core anyway, 2/2 and 3/3 are just one step above that, which is a Twilight Council.
If Zergs are going to be going Lair in the midgame anyway, just let them be okay with 1 step above that, Infestation Pit. In this case, 3/3 will serve as a nice transition to Hive tech instead of Hive being a risky transition to 3/3.
i.e. it'll make it so that the Zerg 3/3 upgrades require the same amount of tier steps as Terran and Protoss.
Terran:
1. Command Center
2. Barracks
3. Factory
4. Armory.
Protoss:
1. Nexus
2. Gateway
3. Cyber Core
4. Twilight Council
Zerg
1. Hatchery
2. Spawning Pool
3. Lair
4. Infestation Pit. as i've said countless times - just allow hive from spire It doesn't make sense for tech to be unlocked from one of two possible buildings, there has been nothing like that in all of Starcraft (or Warcraft for that matter). It seems like a fix for the only purpose of fixing one matchup which is bad especially because the fix itself is awkward and unprecedented. Pretty much this. Letting you to also get Hive from Spire is just a bad idea. It doesn't make any sense, no other tech tree is like that.
Personally I just don't like it since it can have very big consequences such as hive rushes behind muta harass or things like that. It's a very open ended change that has effects on all the MUs. Ontop of that, I personally find it just a silly fix to TvZ to have to now have ultras to effectively stop a midgame terran, especially when ling bling muta handles it quite well until upgrade deficit starts kicking in(and is imo more fun to watch).
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On August 21 2013 08:56 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 08:42 fenix404 wrote:
in case no one has brought it up, ultralisks, at least for me, are an issue in PvZ. zergs will stay on lings and go straight for fast ultra, while i try to prepare for roach or hydra or SH or muta. maybe it's just me, but i already can't figure out how to efficiently deal with ultralisks.
some help here would be good... It's really not hard for protoss to deal with ultralisks. Archon/immortal/templar/colossi/voidray deals well with ultra based compositions. Like yeah This health buff is 1 extra immortal shot, not that big of a deal. Don't know if this is the right solution to try and fix zvt, but at least blizzard is aware.
Archon do so-so, and Colossi and templar no way.
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On August 21 2013 08:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Aside from considering moving the Viper to Lair tech, there's another route they could go. One that's been a very long time coming....they buff the corruptor.
I seem to recall David Kim mentioning that they wanted to change that unit for HotS because it was so boring to watch compared to Vikings and Phoenixes in WoL. HotS came. Nothing was done and it seems to have just flown under the radar since.
I've watched Yugioh go roach/ling/bane/corruptor before and thought if corrutors were just a little bit better this could really have potential. If they just had some other advantage over mutas besides being able to tank more damage to snipe medivacs during engagements. Hell you could maybe even still go muta/ling but mix these in as support casters. So what I prepose:
- Corruption cooldown is increased from 45s to 70s
- The duration remains at 30s
- The cost of a Corruptor is increased from 150/100 to 200/100
- Corruptor speed is increased from 2.9531 to 3 (same as a speed roach off creep. Could help a little with medivac sniping)
- Corruption is now an aoe projectile that reduces all upgrades (attack/armor/shields) by 1 with a radius of 2. (Essentially fungal growth with a different effect). Additionally, it doesn't stack and is capped at 0/0/0 reduction.
The unit is now more interesting to watch, very accessible at Lair (especially since you're likely to get a spire in both ZvT and ZvP), has a unique role as the only unit that can debuff upgrades, and would have even better lategame utility.
Maybe the stats I'm preposing are a bit off, but that's not really what's important. It's the concept. Essentially, I'm looking for something similar to the Devourer that's pre-Hive.
I definitely see something like this being on the right track. Corruptors are, at present, the most useless unit in the game. What purpose do they serve now? All they do is basically provide a THE BROODLORDS ARE COMING signal to the opponent. I think that if the zerg had an additional useful unit it could solve a lot of problems. I also like these ideas too, maybe even make it go to (-1,-1,-1) as to really punish a player who doesnt upgrade
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On August 21 2013 08:59 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 08:38 dabom88 wrote:On August 21 2013 07:00 gobbledydook wrote:On August 21 2013 06:54 DrBeansy wrote:On August 21 2013 05:42 dabom88 wrote:
We're all pretty much in agreement that the transition to Hive tech is where the balance problems are centered around.
So let's discuss Lair tech aka TvZ Midgame.
Now, during TvZ midgame, Terran Drops are aplenty. As HotS has shown time and time again, if you don't have a way to effectively deal with Medivac drops on an at least semi-consistent basis, you WILL lose. Whether it be in TvZ, TvP, or TvT.
The increased speed of the medivac, combined with the Fungal Growth nerf in the transition to HotS, makes it so that Mutas are almost absolutely necessary to combat it.
And Mutas go great with another mobile army, in this case, Ling/Bling
Now, Mutas/Ling/Bling matches up pretty well against MMMM, until you hit a certain point. And that certain point is when the Bio reaches 3/3. Zergs need 3/3 Melee in order to match up against MMMM, which becomes ridiculously cost-effective at 3/3. Otherwise they'll just be continuously fighting from a deficit.
So the fixes should be focused around Zerg 3/3 Melee/Ground armor.
So if the issue is 3/3, and Blizzard seems to want to approach HotS balance with a Buff approach (as opposed to nerfing) why not make 3/3 Melee/Ground armor at a slightly lower tier?
Let's experiment with 3/3 at Infestation Pit. At least for Melee and Ground Armor. It's certainly not going to effect early game too much, as Zergs are still going to need to go through 2/2 and getting an Infestation Pit. Heck, why not just try putting 3/3 for all Zerg units on Infestation Pit, and if it's too much, then scaling back to just Melee/Ground Armor.
It seems a lot fairer to just require an Infestation Pit, since it fits more with the other races. Terrans are going to get a Factory anyway, 2/2 and 3/3 just require one step above that, which is an Armory. Protoss are absolutely going to get a Cybernetics Core anyway, 2/2 and 3/3 are just one step above that, which is a Twilight Council.
If Zergs are going to be going Lair in the midgame anyway, just let them be okay with 1 step above that, Infestation Pit. In this case, 3/3 will serve as a nice transition to Hive tech instead of Hive being a risky transition to 3/3.
i.e. it'll make it so that the Zerg 3/3 upgrades require the same amount of tier steps as Terran and Protoss.
Terran:
1. Command Center
2. Barracks
3. Factory
4. Armory.
Protoss:
1. Nexus
2. Gateway
3. Cyber Core
4. Twilight Council
Zerg
1. Hatchery
2. Spawning Pool
3. Lair
4. Infestation Pit. as i've said countless times - just allow hive from spire It doesn't make sense for tech to be unlocked from one of two possible buildings, there has been nothing like that in all of Starcraft (or Warcraft for that matter). It seems like a fix for the only purpose of fixing one matchup which is bad especially because the fix itself is awkward and unprecedented. Pretty much this. Letting you to also get Hive from Spire is just a bad idea. It doesn't make any sense, no other tech tree is like that. Personally I just don't like it since it can have very big consequences such as hive rushes behind muta harass or things like that. It's a very open ended change that has effects on all the MUs. Ontop of that, I personally find it just a silly fix to TvZ to have to now have ultras to effectively stop a midgame terran, especially when ling bling muta handles it quite well until upgrade deficit starts kicking in(and is imo more fun to watch).
I think most people agree with you, and that's part of why the ultra change is so stupid.
While 4M vs ling/bling/muta is interesting, I personally would like to see something that counters the 4M composition but gets countered by tanks (like the roach/hydra, but if it were good vs bio). Now you have even more complex situations where both sides are ending up with even more complex armies, so we could get MMMMT vs Roach/Hydra/ling/bling/muta. Now give me something that crushes the tank (say infestors) and ghosts that counter infestors and now you have a real MU where everything is good, and you actually have to balance your army composition against what you see coming out of your opponent.
Too bad none of that exists in SC2...
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On August 21 2013 11:01 StarscreamG1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 08:56 blade55555 wrote:On August 21 2013 08:42 fenix404 wrote:
in case no one has brought it up, ultralisks, at least for me, are an issue in PvZ. zergs will stay on lings and go straight for fast ultra, while i try to prepare for roach or hydra or SH or muta. maybe it's just me, but i already can't figure out how to efficiently deal with ultralisks.
some help here would be good... It's really not hard for protoss to deal with ultralisks. Archon/immortal/templar/colossi/voidray deals well with ultra based compositions. Like yeah This health buff is 1 extra immortal shot, not that big of a deal. Don't know if this is the right solution to try and fix zvt, but at least blizzard is aware. Archon do so-so, and Colossi and templar no way.
Void Rays, DTs, and cannons all do fine. Zealots tank ultras surprisingly well for their relatively low cost, buying plenty of time for all units behind them to do the damage. Hell, even Stalkers can hold their own if there is any type of micro/spreading involved as long as they are in adequate numbers.
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On August 21 2013 11:01 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 08:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Aside from considering moving the Viper to Lair tech, there's another route they could go. One that's been a very long time coming....they buff the corruptor.
I seem to recall David Kim mentioning that they wanted to change that unit for HotS because it was so boring to watch compared to Vikings and Phoenixes in WoL. HotS came. Nothing was done and it seems to have just flown under the radar since.
I've watched Yugioh go roach/ling/bane/corruptor before and thought if corrutors were just a little bit better this could really have potential. If they just had some other advantage over mutas besides being able to tank more damage to snipe medivacs during engagements. Hell you could maybe even still go muta/ling but mix these in as support casters. So what I prepose:
- Corruption cooldown is increased from 45s to 70s
- The duration remains at 30s
- The cost of a Corruptor is increased from 150/100 to 200/100
- Corruptor speed is increased from 2.9531 to 3 (same as a speed roach off creep. Could help a little with medivac sniping)
- Corruption is now an aoe projectile that reduces all upgrades (attack/armor/shields) by 1 with a radius of 2. (Essentially fungal growth with a different effect). Additionally, it doesn't stack and is capped at 0/0/0 reduction.
The unit is now more interesting to watch, very accessible at Lair (especially since you're likely to get a spire in both ZvT and ZvP), has a unique role as the only unit that can debuff upgrades, and would have even better lategame utility.
Maybe the stats I'm preposing are a bit off, but that's not really what's important. It's the concept. Essentially, I'm looking for something similar to the Devourer that's pre-Hive. I definitely see something like this being on the right track. Corruptors are, at present, the most useless unit in the game. What purpose do they serve now? All they do is basically provide a THE BROODLORDS ARE COMING signal to the opponent. I think that if the zerg had an additional useful unit it could solve a lot of problems. I also like these ideas too, maybe even make it go to (-1,-1,-1) as to really punish a player who doesnt upgrade
Only if broodlords morph from mutas.. so it either morphs to a broodlord or re-designed corrupter..
I mean making binding cloud halve (or some % range reduction) for enemy units underneath it would be a good starting point.. along with a buff for zerg units (+1 armor? +2? etc) underneath it would negate the level 3 weps up on the T ground bio. I can't believe the best solution they could come up with is the 200 energy viper.
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How about they just make window mines cost minerals to shoot another shot...like reavers...it could be 10, 25, or 50 minerals whatever is most balanced. this would reduce the cost effiency making it a little bit easier for zerg and also require some micro from terran to reshoot the mines. Its not too much micro, but at least requires a little more skill to use.
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On August 20 2013 16:32 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 16:28 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Its too bad we can't just have some simple change like make it so mines will explode changelings so you have a free way of defusing mines or something amusing. Exploding on changelings could have some hilarious consequences. Especially if there is couple of changelings stickied to terran's bio ball :D
That would be glorious to watch. I want that in now just as a viewer.
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On August 21 2013 11:11 johnnyapplec wrote:
How about they just make window mines cost minerals to shoot another shot...like reavers...it could be 10, 25, or 50 minerals whatever is most balanced. this would reduce the cost effiency making it a little bit easier for zerg and also require some micro from terran to reshoot the mines. Its not too much micro, but at least requires a little more skill to use.
It may not seem like much, but making widow mines cost minerals will greatly weaken Terran in the TvZ matchup...
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On August 21 2013 11:11 johnnyapplec wrote:
How about they just make window mines cost minerals to shoot another shot...like reavers...it could be 10, 25, or 50 minerals whatever is most balanced. this would reduce the cost effiency making it a little bit easier for zerg and also require some micro from terran to reshoot the mines. Its not too much micro, but at least requires a little more skill to use.
Could do the same for Swarm hosts, or make it cost 10 gas or something
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OMG...those overseers will fast as hell!~~ Overseers 1 less fast as phoenix!!~~ hahahah^^...that is hilarious!~~..bring it on...
Ultra buff is fine.....
Its the terran buff that really freaks me out,..It is too much - think about it logically: they essentially get something like 450 min/ 450 gas of upgrades for free?? This is madness!~~
This is not Sparta!
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EPT
