|
On August 15 2013 01:29 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 00:36 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 22:39 opisska wrote:
So, dear region-lockers, let me ask this way: Blizzard has already said that they would like to push the whole WCS eventually to be offline. Will that solve your problem? Well it becomes alot less attractive for Koreans to participate in AM/EU, but it also becomes less attractive for Europeans/Americans to participate, which is why I don't think it will be a good idea. Korea is a single country that is extremely centered around Seoul, pretty much everyone lives there. Europe and America are a bit more spread out, to put it very mildly. So I don't think doing everything there offline is currently a good idea. But what if Koreans just move into US/Europe permanently and continue playing even completely offline? What will you require then - citizenship? Permanent residency? Or do you just want Blizzard to hire a team of antropologists to judge if the guy isn't too Korean to play? Hahahahah what a funny joke you made!!1!! Just kidding, wasn't funny. Permanent residency is imo the best one. For example someone in Polts situation should be allowed to participate in AM. The whole idea of region lock is absurd in the globalised world. Yet despite what you would think with all the tennis examples brought into here, I dare to say the vast majority of the regular sports tournaments have region lock. Despite it being apparantly absurd. Maybe it will work in US, because it is notoriously difficult to move there, but there is very little you can do in Europe to prevent all the Koreans to just become Europeans at almost any level barring actual citizenship. But do you really want nationalistic bureaocracy to be the deciding factor in esports competiton? I consider it highly unlikely that would happen on a large scale. And a last question: if you want a region lock, that means you are also OK with a region lock in Korea, right? No more foreigners in Korea and a completely closed scene like in late BW? Would be fine for me, you still have WCS finals anyway, and of course tons of open tournaments. On August 15 2013 00:35 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2013 00:33 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 15 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2013 00:25 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 15 2013 00:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 14 2013 23:56 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 23:40 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 14 2013 23:32 Ohforfsake wrote:
[quote]
Then with risk of sounding bad... Why the Hell call is WCS EU and WCS NA? Why not just have WCS GSL (Korea) and get it done with if the point is to find the best player in the world and not foster the regions? They can invite Naniwa and Scarlett to the challanger division. Anyone else who wanna compete can move to Korea and try their luck in the qualifiers.
If this is the goal and purpose of WCS then atleast have the decency to name it correctly and don't confuse us fans. I also think comparing the current WCS to superbowl is a very good comparison. Noone in the world outside of one country (the USA) cares about that event.
I'm not disagreeing with you that perhaps the regions could be named to something else more arbitrary like Auir, Char or Korhal (keeping with Starcraft theme.) and that it is a little confusing especially after last year's format. However, I will say that you are absolutely dead wrong about your last sentence. This attitude of "if its dominated by Koreans then I'm not watching" is that of a vocal minority. I personally will NEVER understand why the nationality of a player has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not a fan will support him. I don't get it. I don't get it in Sports, I don't get it in e-sports. I understand the attitude exists but this scene can and will survive without people that let that attitude dominate their thinking. Will it shrink, perhaps, but it will survive. It will shrink to Broodwar, the last years. I do care about who is the best korean. I watch the GSL to see that. I just do not understand why you want to watch WCS AM/EU to see who is the best korean. If you want to see good koreans in your own time zone there is/was already Dreamhack and MLGs that sported this. What differs us in who we choose to cheer for is that I like to feel somewhat connected to whom I cheer for. Naniwa for instance has grown up in the same country and same region of that country as me. I know what he must have gone through to get to where it is. This makes it much easier for me to sympatize with him and feel pride etc if he wins something than a korean which I have absolutely nothing in common with. I have no idea what his life must have been like and cannot imagine what challanges he has faced. This is normal in sports fans. This is why you typically root for your local team in sports and not for the team on the other side of the earth (unless you just wanna be different from your local friends). For me it's equally amazing to find that there apperently are people who have never felt this connection to their local comunity. Only reason i watch WCS EU is to see whether some of our beloved foreigners can take out korean. It happens (*cough*Grubby*cough*), but it is rare. I watch WCS AM for players, whom i know can produce really good games or who are so hyped up, that i want to see how they'll do (*cough*Jim*cough*). And with this I am to assume you did not watch WCS EU 2012 then since it held no koreans to defeat. Just poor games between europeans? If this isn't true and you watched it your point is mute. Those games from WCS 2012 EU were pretty good, I don't know what you are talking about. People seem to have selective memories when it comes to non-Korean games and their quality. Why do you answer a question specifically asked to someone else with quotes? No, just pointing out that they were not "Just poor games between europeans?", but some pretty quality matches. FYI you completely missed his point. I would try to answer in the same structured way, because it is the best way for multiple threads in one conversation, but everytime I do that, I absolutely botch the quotes and can never fix them back. So I apologize for writting a summary answer, but I can't apparently do better. The point about more offline WCS being bad even for EU/US players is a good one, but I am not sure that Blizzard is considering it, as the thing about more WCS offline is not from my head, but from Blizzard, they said it many times. If that happens, even local players would have to relocate, at least partially - do you realy think that it is that much easier for them than for Koreans - speaking about EU, obviously? I just do not share your opinion that a significant relocation of Koreans is unlikely - it is also good to remember, that it doesn't have to be a lot of people. There are currently not even a dozen Koreans in WCS EU, yet they have a pretty significant impact on it. On the other hand, the ever-repeated argumentation by traditional sports is moot in my opinion and doesn't disprove my claim of absurdity. People just do a lot of absurd stuff, especially in areas that have a long traditon, because there you get a lot of inertia. And it wasn't really that absurd 30 years ago, when the world was a bunch of largely disconnected coutries. But now, we live in a world, where you can communicate and travel between any points on a whim - imposing these old-fashoined local restriction is just backwards thinking. If anything, shouldn't the esports, whose main demographics is young, bright, educated and technologically savvy people be as forwards as possible? And if you wish to use classical sports as an example, look at football (soccer) - there are multiple limits on citizenshiup of the players that are just being easily bypassed by giving them the citizenship that is just needed, because there is enough money to push that. Is that really something we want to imitate? But to me, the thing I feel strongest about is what I started in the paragraph before the previous one: I just hate when your .. anything depends on your passport. Yes, I know that there are a milion things that are like that, but why on Earth should esports be another contributor in the wrong direction?
You use bad examples from soccer. there are not that many nationality changes within the sport and the regulations governing it is very harsh. It isn't enought that you manage to change nationality, FIFA has to approve it as well. Most these nationality changes has happened after the player has lived 3-5 years in a country which follows normal citizen rules in most countries and therefore are tolerated by FIFA. There are some exceptions with money involved but none of those has had any greater impact on the international scene and therefore hasn't varented much of a response from FIFA.
Or to make this simpler. If your example had been true we would had seen spanish and brazilian players lining up most national teams in the world by now. This is not the case. All these brazilian players going to Europe because european football clubs pay better still competes for Barzil in the World Cup and Qualify through the South American qualifiers. The fact that they go to europe to play if they are good is a good thing because it raises the quality of the european league without diluting the quality of the World Cup. This could be something for blizzard to look at to copy but I still think it's better to look at individual sports for Sc2 and not team sports.
Btw, the problem you describe about nationality changes are much larger in sports like track and fields where theres actually real discussions right now if they are going to do something about it. The african athlets are fleeing africa.
As to your main point I guess it depends on what you want with a tournament called the World Cup. I would personally want it to be a tournament involving all the world where the best gamers in the different regions of the world meet and duke it out. Preferably in a system that will allow me to see who is the best player from each region as well (not the best korean in each region to make this absolutely clear). I believe that to generate interest all around the world you need to actually have local players from all around the world competing. Perhaps everyone cannot be in the grand finals but they should atleast have reasonable chanses to get there and atleast a few players from each region should get to that final after a regional championship.
As I have stated before this is connected to me actually feeling connected to local talant and understanding their lives etc unlike people from the other side of the world. I have explained this to you in an earlier post tho and you can just read back to it if you really wanna understand my view.
I still have gotten no answer to why you are so opposed to a regional tournament crowning the best player from a local region tho. Especially since you already have GSL, MLG, Dreamhack and a host of other tournaments to see the best players duke it out no matter nationality. Isn't that enough for you?
|
On August 15 2013 01:55 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 00:36 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 22:39 opisska wrote:
So, dear region-lockers, let me ask this way: Blizzard has already said that they would like to push the whole WCS eventually to be offline. Will that solve your problem? Well it becomes alot less attractive for Koreans to participate in AM/EU, but it also becomes less attractive for Europeans/Americans to participate, which is why I don't think it will be a good idea. Korea is a single country that is extremely centered around Seoul, pretty much everyone lives there. Europe and America are a bit more spread out, to put it very mildly. So I don't think doing everything there offline is currently a good idea. But what if Koreans just move into US/Europe permanently and continue playing even completely offline? What will you require then - citizenship? Permanent residency? Or do you just want Blizzard to hire a team of antropologists to judge if the guy isn't too Korean to play? Hahahahah what a funny joke you made!!1!! Just kidding, wasn't funny. Permanent residency is imo the best one. For example someone in Polts situation should be allowed to participate in AM. The whole idea of region lock is absurd in the globalised world. Yet despite what you would think with all the tennis examples brought into here, I dare to say the vast majority of the regular sports tournaments have region lock. Despite it being apparantly absurd. Maybe it will work in US, because it is notoriously difficult to move there, but there is very little you can do in Europe to prevent all the Koreans to just become Europeans at almost any level barring actual citizenship. But do you really want nationalistic bureaocracy to be the deciding factor in esports competiton? I consider it highly unlikely that would happen on a large scale. And a last question: if you want a region lock, that means you are also OK with a region lock in Korea, right? No more foreigners in Korea and a completely closed scene like in late BW? Would be fine for me, you still have WCS finals anyway, and of course tons of open tournaments. On August 15 2013 00:35 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2013 00:33 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 15 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 15 2013 00:25 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 15 2013 00:10 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 14 2013 23:56 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 23:40 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 14 2013 23:32 Ohforfsake wrote:
[quote]
Then with risk of sounding bad... Why the Hell call is WCS EU and WCS NA? Why not just have WCS GSL (Korea) and get it done with if the point is to find the best player in the world and not foster the regions? They can invite Naniwa and Scarlett to the challanger division. Anyone else who wanna compete can move to Korea and try their luck in the qualifiers.
If this is the goal and purpose of WCS then atleast have the decency to name it correctly and don't confuse us fans. I also think comparing the current WCS to superbowl is a very good comparison. Noone in the world outside of one country (the USA) cares about that event.
I'm not disagreeing with you that perhaps the regions could be named to something else more arbitrary like Auir, Char or Korhal (keeping with Starcraft theme.) and that it is a little confusing especially after last year's format. However, I will say that you are absolutely dead wrong about your last sentence. This attitude of "if its dominated by Koreans then I'm not watching" is that of a vocal minority. I personally will NEVER understand why the nationality of a player has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not a fan will support him. I don't get it. I don't get it in Sports, I don't get it in e-sports. I understand the attitude exists but this scene can and will survive without people that let that attitude dominate their thinking. Will it shrink, perhaps, but it will survive. It will shrink to Broodwar, the last years. I do care about who is the best korean. I watch the GSL to see that. I just do not understand why you want to watch WCS AM/EU to see who is the best korean. If you want to see good koreans in your own time zone there is/was already Dreamhack and MLGs that sported this. What differs us in who we choose to cheer for is that I like to feel somewhat connected to whom I cheer for. Naniwa for instance has grown up in the same country and same region of that country as me. I know what he must have gone through to get to where it is. This makes it much easier for me to sympatize with him and feel pride etc if he wins something than a korean which I have absolutely nothing in common with. I have no idea what his life must have been like and cannot imagine what challanges he has faced. This is normal in sports fans. This is why you typically root for your local team in sports and not for the team on the other side of the earth (unless you just wanna be different from your local friends). For me it's equally amazing to find that there apperently are people who have never felt this connection to their local comunity. Only reason i watch WCS EU is to see whether some of our beloved foreigners can take out korean. It happens (*cough*Grubby*cough*), but it is rare. I watch WCS AM for players, whom i know can produce really good games or who are so hyped up, that i want to see how they'll do (*cough*Jim*cough*). And with this I am to assume you did not watch WCS EU 2012 then since it held no koreans to defeat. Just poor games between europeans? If this isn't true and you watched it your point is mute. Those games from WCS 2012 EU were pretty good, I don't know what you are talking about. People seem to have selective memories when it comes to non-Korean games and their quality. Why do you answer a question specifically asked to someone else with quotes? No, just pointing out that they were not "Just poor games between europeans?", but some pretty quality matches. FYI you completely missed his point. i can't think of an individual sport on a decent scale that is region locked atm. they might be a few tho. It's absurd to compare starcraft to team sport when it's just an individual sport like tennis, golf or whatever (hint Gom Kor vs the world was exactly the replicate of the ryder cup) and teamleagues happen all the time in individual sport, the only difference is that ppl don't care about them if it's not a nation vs nation thing.
How many winter sports do you want me to list? How many summer sports? Every sport that is present in the olympics is region locked and that is the greatest tournament you can win in most sports. How about that? How many can you name that isn't region locked. (Even tennis is region locked in the olympics).
Even the seemingly open american sports are region locked. It's not like I as a Norwegian can just valtz in there and compete. Or like I can just form up a norwegian team and join. The only thing I can think of that isn't particularily region locked is MMA.
|
On August 15 2013 02:06 Ohforfsake wrote:
I still have gotten no answer to why you are so opposed to a regional tournament crowning the best player from a local region tho. Especially since you already have GSL, MLG, Dreamhack and a host of other tournaments to see the best players duke it out no matter nationality. Isn't that enough for you?
I am not really opposed to the existence of such tournament - after all, everyone should be moreorless free to do any kind of tournament he wants to. But I won't probably watch it or support it, whereas I want to watch an support the WCS - it is the absolutely biggest thing in SC2, backed by Blizzard, thus with a pretty good shot on longevity. So I am opposed to the biggest and "official" tournament to being a regional tournament, imposing limits on players based on the passport they hold or other kinds of papers. Also, I don't want the WCS to be like that, becuse I am looking forward to the season finals and to the grand finals and I don't want to see one-sided stomps there. Honestly, I think it would be pretty cool if a foreigner could make a good run in some of the finals, just for the story, but I don't think that potential region-locking helps that in any way. Yes, we could get more players, but do you really see any player who is not able to beat the code B Koreans in current WCS EU/US to take a map from the code S ones?
|
On August 15 2013 02:23 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:06 Ohforfsake wrote:
I still have gotten no answer to why you are so opposed to a regional tournament crowning the best player from a local region tho. Especially since you already have GSL, MLG, Dreamhack and a host of other tournaments to see the best players duke it out no matter nationality. Isn't that enough for you? I am not really opposed to the existence of such tournament - after all, everyone should be moreorless free to do any kind of tournament he wants to. But I won't probably watch it or support it, whereas I want to watch an support the WCS - it is the absolutely biggest thing in SC2, backed by Blizzard, thus with a pretty good shot on longevity. So I am opposed to the biggest and "official" tournament to being a regional tournament, imposing limits on players based on the passport they hold or other kinds of papers. Also, I don't want the WCS to be like that, becuse I am looking forward to the season finals and to the grand finals and I don't want to see one-sided stomps there. Honestly, I think it would be pretty cool if a foreigner could make a good run in some of the finals, just for the story, but I don't think that potential region-locking helps that in any way. Yes, we could get more players, but do you really see any player who is not able to beat the code B Koreans in current WCS EU/US to take a map from the code S ones?
To answer yor question. No. But that is what makes the underdog story. And what makes it so fantastic when it happens. Do I really believe Trinidad Tobago will beat Spain in the FIFA World Cup? No. But it still makes for a fantastic story when it does happen. Or even if they take a point. And if these lesser nations were not allowed to qualify (lets face it, Trinidad Tobago would never qualify without a region lock) that storyline would never happen.
This is what you miss out on. The chanse for the most fantastic storylines and matches. Sc2 isn't protecting their leagues and stars well enough. The best players from different regions should not meet regularily. They should meet rarely to duke it out. That way you can build hype in each region for the next finals. Maybe that EU/AM player that went on a hot streak through the EU/AM qualifier can actually stand up to the koreans! We don't know until the world finals! Hype! Hype! In all regions! Then they clash and we get the resolution. Right now we pretty much know the answer long before the clash since they meet every week in different online and offline tournaments.
This I believe is the largest problems SC2 faces. And what holds it back right now. One way to deal with this is to region lock and seperate the regions to create the space and time for the Hype to build up. Another way is to do like boxing and have the managers realize that they should keep their stars from competeing too firecely and avoid too hard oponent to keep winning streaks going and set up that championship match and hype at a later stage. I prefer the first way.
I love how the western and eastern teams have almost no matches against each other in DOTA2 before the TI. This creates so much hype and speculation going into the tournament. And then you get to see the results from the tournament on who was king this year and who wasn't. And usually atleast a few upsets/surprises on the way (Team Liquid, Orange this year). I would love to see something simular in SC2. WCS EU last year was such a tournament since it had a long build up with local qualifiers (that saw some upsets) and then a unique tournament to finish it off (there was no other tornament sporting only the best of EU in a good production). The world finals was less interesting to me because I had already seen that tournament in MLGs, Dreamhacks etc throughout the year. There was nothing new or unique to peak my interest. It was mildly interesting to see how Staphano would do but since he had an abysmal tournament and dropt out to Idra in the group stages .. well, that was pretty much it for me in that tournament.
The season and world finals this year hold little interest to me. I have already seen who won GSL/OSL. If another one of the koreans manage to make it, it will only register as a somewhat interesting statistical point to me. There are no emotions invested and I feel nothing (the same can not be said for the finals of TI with Alliance and Navi duking it out).
|
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:54 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:23 opisska wrote:On August 15 2013 02:06 Ohforfsake wrote:
I still have gotten no answer to why you are so opposed to a regional tournament crowning the best player from a local region tho. Especially since you already have GSL, MLG, Dreamhack and a host of other tournaments to see the best players duke it out no matter nationality. Isn't that enough for you? I am not really opposed to the existence of such tournament - after all, everyone should be moreorless free to do any kind of tournament he wants to. But I won't probably watch it or support it, whereas I want to watch an support the WCS - it is the absolutely biggest thing in SC2, backed by Blizzard, thus with a pretty good shot on longevity. So I am opposed to the biggest and "official" tournament to being a regional tournament, imposing limits on players based on the passport they hold or other kinds of papers. Also, I don't want the WCS to be like that, becuse I am looking forward to the season finals and to the grand finals and I don't want to see one-sided stomps there. Honestly, I think it would be pretty cool if a foreigner could make a good run in some of the finals, just for the story, but I don't think that potential region-locking helps that in any way. Yes, we could get more players, but do you really see any player who is not able to beat the code B Koreans in current WCS EU/US to take a map from the code S ones? To answer yor question. No. But that is what makes the underdog story. And what makes it so fantastic when it happens. Do I really believe Trinidad Tobago will beat Spain in the FIFA World Cup? No. But it still makes for a fantastic story when it does happen. Or even if they take a point. And if these lesser nations were not allowed to qualify (lets face it, Trinidad Tobago would never qualify without a region lock) that storyline would never happen. This is what you miss out on. The chanse for the most fantastic storylines and matches. Sc2 isn't protecting their leagues and stars well enough. The best players from different regions should not meet regularily. They should meet rarely to duke it out. That way you can build hype in each region for the next finals. Maybe that EU/AM player that went on a hot streak through the EU/AM qualifier can actually stand up to the koreans! We don't know until the world finals! Hype! Hype! In all regions! Then they clash and we get the resolution. Right now we pretty much know the answer long before the clash since they meet every week in different online and offline tournaments. This I believe is the largest problems SC2 faces. And what holds it back right now. One way to deal with this is to region lock and seperate the regions to create the space and time for the Hype to build up. Another way is to do like boxing and have the managers realize that they should keep their stars from competeing too firecely and avoid too hard oponent to keep winning streaks going and set up that championship match and hype at a later stage. I prefer the first way. I love how the western and eastern teams have almost no matches against each other in DOTA2 before the TI. This creates so much hype and speculation going into the tournament. And then you get to see the results from the tournament on who was king this year and who wasn't. And usually atleast a few upsets/surprises on the way (Team Liquid, Orange this year). I would love to see something simular in SC2. WCS EU last year was such a tournament since it had a long build up with local qualifiers (that saw some upsets) and then a unique tournament to finish it off (there was no other tornament sporting only the best of EU in a good production). The world finals was less interesting to me because I had already seen that tournament in MLGs, Dreamhacks etc throughout the year. There was nothing new or unique to peak my interest. It was mildly interesting to see how Staphano would do but since he had an abysmal tournament and dropt out to Idra in the group stages .. well, that was pretty much it for me in that tournament. The season and world finals this year hold little interest to me. I have already seen who won GSL/OSL. If another one of the koreans manage to make it, it will only register as a somewhat interesting statistical point to me. There are no emotions invested and I feel nothing (the same can not be said for the finals of TI with Alliance and Navi duking it out).
See, you were not interested in BWC except for perfomance of Stephano, that ended up as it did. You were interested in WCS EU, and it is understandable. But that underdog story you talk about in this case does not exist. Simply because there are always BETTER Koreans, than ones we have to deal with in regular seasons of WCS EU and AM (but yeah, Polt and TaeJa duo is really, really good). This alone makes underdog story likelier to happen.
+ Show Spoiler +Heavy off-topic:Also, what is wrong with me, i watched both Alliance and NaVi's games and felt they were lame and only casters shouting like it is apocalypse made it somewhat interesting for me (you know, why would they shout at all, as all i see is a team wipe). Then i watched iG vs DK and thought that innovation's tvz is more action packed (even though it is just innovation raping zerg after 10th minute without zerg fighting back in any way (as in actually getting agressive)).
|
United Kingdom14103 Posts
|
doesnt WCG count as a tournament where each region is represented by homegrown gamer?
and people have said the finals is very low skill level. so if wcs becomes wcg syle format...same result?
i wonder why wcg isnt so popular, people seem to prefer locked region 
(tbh i dont remember the last wcg except for the first sc2 one casted by themarine, i assume there wasnt one since...bring it back!)
|
juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On August 15 2013 11:35 jinorazi wrote:doesnt WCG count as a tournament where each region is represented by homegrown gamer? and people have said the finals is very low skill level. so if wcs becomes wcg syle format...same result? i wonder why wcg isnt so popular, people seem to prefer locked region (tbh i dont remember the last wcg except for the first sc2 one casted by themarine, i assume there wasnt one since...bring it back!)
What if Blizzard instituted a rule saying each region must have a certain percentage of players from that region? Like WCS AM must have X% players from and/or currently living in North and South America, then have qualifiers for the other percent of non-American players? Then they could decide what to do with players from regions without WCS (SEA, etc.) afterwards, either put them with the in-region payers or out-of-region players.
|
Why they name it wcs America , Europe East ?? Where that basically Korean vs Korean ??
since when taeja and polt are americain ???
Unless American is now Korean they are something wrong here.... Was thinking this tournament was everyone from each country vs other country...
That basically Korean flying to another players country for own white dude then compete vs each other.... kinda lame
They should rename it WCS for ''We Come Steal , your money  america
wcs america , ho !!
after people dont understand why all foreigner will stop this game... got no tournament now because of this one....
|
On August 15 2013 03:43 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:54 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 15 2013 02:23 opisska wrote:On August 15 2013 02:06 Ohforfsake wrote:
I still have gotten no answer to why you are so opposed to a regional tournament crowning the best player from a local region tho. Especially since you already have GSL, MLG, Dreamhack and a host of other tournaments to see the best players duke it out no matter nationality. Isn't that enough for you? I am not really opposed to the existence of such tournament - after all, everyone should be moreorless free to do any kind of tournament he wants to. But I won't probably watch it or support it, whereas I want to watch an support the WCS - it is the absolutely biggest thing in SC2, backed by Blizzard, thus with a pretty good shot on longevity. So I am opposed to the biggest and "official" tournament to being a regional tournament, imposing limits on players based on the passport they hold or other kinds of papers. Also, I don't want the WCS to be like that, becuse I am looking forward to the season finals and to the grand finals and I don't want to see one-sided stomps there. Honestly, I think it would be pretty cool if a foreigner could make a good run in some of the finals, just for the story, but I don't think that potential region-locking helps that in any way. Yes, we could get more players, but do you really see any player who is not able to beat the code B Koreans in current WCS EU/US to take a map from the code S ones? To answer yor question. No. But that is what makes the underdog story. And what makes it so fantastic when it happens. Do I really believe Trinidad Tobago will beat Spain in the FIFA World Cup? No. But it still makes for a fantastic story when it does happen. Or even if they take a point. And if these lesser nations were not allowed to qualify (lets face it, Trinidad Tobago would never qualify without a region lock) that storyline would never happen. This is what you miss out on. The chanse for the most fantastic storylines and matches. Sc2 isn't protecting their leagues and stars well enough. The best players from different regions should not meet regularily. They should meet rarely to duke it out. That way you can build hype in each region for the next finals. Maybe that EU/AM player that went on a hot streak through the EU/AM qualifier can actually stand up to the koreans! We don't know until the world finals! Hype! Hype! In all regions! Then they clash and we get the resolution. Right now we pretty much know the answer long before the clash since they meet every week in different online and offline tournaments. This I believe is the largest problems SC2 faces. And what holds it back right now. One way to deal with this is to region lock and seperate the regions to create the space and time for the Hype to build up. Another way is to do like boxing and have the managers realize that they should keep their stars from competeing too firecely and avoid too hard oponent to keep winning streaks going and set up that championship match and hype at a later stage. I prefer the first way. I love how the western and eastern teams have almost no matches against each other in DOTA2 before the TI. This creates so much hype and speculation going into the tournament. And then you get to see the results from the tournament on who was king this year and who wasn't. And usually atleast a few upsets/surprises on the way (Team Liquid, Orange this year). I would love to see something simular in SC2. WCS EU last year was such a tournament since it had a long build up with local qualifiers (that saw some upsets) and then a unique tournament to finish it off (there was no other tornament sporting only the best of EU in a good production). The world finals was less interesting to me because I had already seen that tournament in MLGs, Dreamhacks etc throughout the year. There was nothing new or unique to peak my interest. It was mildly interesting to see how Staphano would do but since he had an abysmal tournament and dropt out to Idra in the group stages .. well, that was pretty much it for me in that tournament. The season and world finals this year hold little interest to me. I have already seen who won GSL/OSL. If another one of the koreans manage to make it, it will only register as a somewhat interesting statistical point to me. There are no emotions invested and I feel nothing (the same can not be said for the finals of TI with Alliance and Navi duking it out). See, you were not interested in BWC except for perfomance of Stephano, that ended up as it did. You were interested in WCS EU, and it is understandable. But that underdog story you talk about in this case does not exist. Simply because there are always BETTER Koreans, than ones we have to deal with in regular seasons of WCS EU and AM (but yeah, Polt and TaeJa duo is really, really good). This alone makes underdog story likelier to happen. + Show Spoiler +Heavy off-topic:Also, what is wrong with me, i watched both Alliance and NaVi's games and felt they were lame and only casters shouting like it is apocalypse made it somewhat interesting for me (you know, why would they shout at all, as all i see is a team wipe). Then i watched iG vs DK and thought that innovation's tvz is more action packed (even though it is just innovation raping zerg after 10th minute without zerg fighting back in any way (as in actually getting agressive)).
This is just going in circles now. I get emotionally attached to players and cheer for them. You don't. You don't care about background stories etc (the so called storyline) and just want to see the best play no matter where they are from. They could probably have been presented as X vs Y or Red vs Blue to you with no face and you'd be happy. We are not the same. And I dare say you are not the norm of a sports fan. Blizzard is a company who wants this to grow as huge as possible, they will have to try and make people like me happy, or we (the majority) will go to another sport. I have already found one I am waiting a year to see again. I just feel it's sad that SC2 which I started to watch and from where I saw so many positive signs last year has decided to turn into a exclusive league with just koreans and the odd freakshow stomping of a foreigner (The korean stomping at the world finals are ok, but the stomping at EU/AM is not). Going into this year I did not believe this was the vision of WCS and I am disappointed to learn that it is. I take solice in the fact that I am not alone however. Any forums or discussion threads that have been linked here shows the same. A wast majority of people expressing their discust at the current system in those threads. Even this thread shows this same trend of responces. The majority of the unique posts on the subject here are expressing dissapointment over the system.
If a company like Blizzard want to ignore that sentiment among fans then they are ofcorse prefectly free to do so. But their fans will slowly trinkle off. Some to DOTA, some to LOL, some to whatever new game shows up and left will be the same old Broodwar people and a feeling of being back to square 1. This might be some of you fans out there's greatest wish but I'd be very surprised if Blizards business plan has this vision. As I said before, any time I feel like I wanna know who is the current korean top dog in each region I'll tune in. The last few months this havn't happened once. I have only watched WCS Korea (GSL) basically since this seems the only proper tournament left that holds a unique value. The rest I just read liquid news here afterwards and go "oh, jeadong failed another finals" (with about that much emotions invested).
Anyways, enough rambling about this. We'll prolly never look eye to eye on this anyways. The way the world is going right now you're future looks bright and you'll have a lot of koreans to watch and I'll just have just to look elsewhere to find a Esport with local affiliation.
|
The day when JD decides to participate in SOSPA tournament will be the happiest day.
|
On August 15 2013 12:04 quebecman77 wrote:Why they name it wcs America , Europe East ?? Where that basically Korean vs Korean ?? since when taeja and polt are americain ??? Unless American is now Korean they are something wrong here.... Was thinking this tournament was everyone from each country vs other country... That basically Korean flying to another players country for own white dude then compete vs each other.... kinda lame They should rename it WCS for ''We Come Steal , your money america wcs america , ho !! after people dont understand why all foreigner will stop this game... got no tournament now because of this one....
Polt currently lives in and attends college in Texas.
|
On August 15 2013 12:04 quebecman77 wrote:Why they name it wcs America , Europe East ?? Where that basically Korean vs Korean ?? since when taeja and polt are americain ??? Unless American is now Korean they are something wrong here.... Was thinking this tournament was everyone from each country vs other country... That basically Korean flying to another players country for own white dude then compete vs each other.... kinda lame They should rename it WCS for ''We Come Steal , your money america wcs america , ho !! after people dont understand why all foreigner will stop this game... got no tournament now because of this one....
Just for the reason it has America in it, doesn't mean its "YOUR" tournament. Not to mention not YOUR money. Its Blizzards money and I dare to say that is the problem of many players in NA. Koreans are not stealing your money, they are better and succeed while you fail and claim you would have any right to get a share of that money with the level you have.
NO. Check Scarlett, she makes deep runs and is a very good player. She gets her part of the money, because she's good and thats how it should be.
|
I dare to say Blizzards goal is to raise interest in SC2 and make sure people keep buying expansions. And I also dare to say making it Code A hosted in the US is not the way to go for them.
doesnt WCG count as a tournament where each region is represented by homegrown gamer?
and people have said the finals is very low skill level. so if wcs becomes wcg syle format...same result?
I can now type the name here of a random small tournament which isn't region locked and claim that is the end result of WCS if they don't region lock it. That makes as much sense as comparing WCG with a region locked WCS.
|
Why does koreans have less lag in american region than europe? Korea is geographically closer to europe than america, also there is an ocean between korea and america.
|
On August 15 2013 19:41 Naturedota wrote:
Why does koreans have less lag in american region than europe? Korea is geographically closer to europe than america, also there is an ocean between korea and america.
Because there are better lines between NA and SEA than from the EU. It is not really about distance.
|
On August 15 2013 19:41 Naturedota wrote:
Why does koreans have less lag in american region than europe? Korea is geographically closer to europe than america, also there is an ocean between korea and america.
They have ocean. Kr - eu have afganistan, kazakzstan....etc. depends how info would go.
Doesnt eu data to asia go throw america?
|
/Sigh
I'd like to refute the last part about the American scene with something...anything...but what is there to say? Scarlett can't carry a scene by herself, and ROOT/EG isn't getting through that hell of a Challenger League unless they're invited through.
That seems to be a common theme lately. Either NA players are invited through the hellish Korean dominated everything to compete, or they're left out to dry ala MLG/IPL.
The article touched on this, but I feel like they skirted the issue. WCS Europe is the most popular despite a seemingly lesser field of talent as compared to WCSs Korea and Korea-Lite. The article blames it on a uniformly talented player pool, so games are chaotic when it comes to determining who will win.
However, I feel that an even larger component is that Europeans can get behind the players. The article basically hinted at that point, but refused to grab its proverbial balls, say "Yeah, we'll say it," and finally conclude that player level is trumped hands down by player accessibility and fan interaction. TI3 in Seattle proved that homefield favorites trump player skill (TL versus anyone).
Scarlett is the only major American pro left because there's nothing for the American pros to play. MLG left because they finally felt like admitting that they never actually cared about the NA scene that they promised for 3 years to support. IPL died a slow, painful death, and NASL is clawing its way back into things. There's the SC2L and Shoutcraft America, but those don't actually help the major problem of lack of a major NA scene.
With ROOT doing what the fuck ROOT is doing, EG's foreigner squad basically consisting of DeMuslim and Suppy now, TL's Americans either injured or going solo, and Complexity/Dignitas gone radio silent, do we even have enough American players to fill a Ro32?
And yes, I blame Blizzard/MLG for this. I blame them with every fiber of my being.
Fight on Scarlett, you crazy Canadian princess. Carry the NA flag while it crumbles around you.
|
On August 15 2013 19:56 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 19:41 Naturedota wrote:
Why does koreans have less lag in american region than europe? Korea is geographically closer to europe than america, also there is an ocean between korea and america. Because there are better lines between NA and SEA than from the EU. It is not really about distance.
What does australia have anything to do with korea-america connection?
|
It makes absolutely no sense to allow koreans, or anyone who is no living in the region, to take part in the competition in american region. Same applies to all regions, so koreans should be allowed to compete only in korea, and europeas only in europe etc. This way, whole region thing actually makes sense and promotes local scene.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
