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Look the WCS isn't designed to find the best player in Europe or North America. That isn't its goal. That was its goal last year but when they redid the system they changed what they were trying to do.
The WCS is designed now with the purpose of creating a Master's Tournament that crowns a global champion yearly. It's the World Cup, the Superbowl whatever you want to call it. It's the big prize that every player on the planet dreams of. The entire format they've currently developed is built with the purpose of building towards the finals at the end of the year. That's why there is no region locking, If there was region locking then the finals at the end of the year will just be a repeat of 2012 where the Koreans stomp on everyone that managed to get through the other regions and the eventual champion is whichever of the small number of lucky Koreans that made it through their own stacked tournament to get there.
Its completely anti-climactic and goes against what Blizzard is trying to do.
I feel for people that want a big tournament that focuses on finding the best player in Europe or NA but that IS NOT what the WCS is for, and people clamoring for Region Locking can't seem to grasp that what they want isn't what Blizzard wanted when they made WCS in the first place, the goals are not the same.
If the demand is there for a big region locked tournament that crowns the big title for Europe or NA then someone else will come along to fill that void, hell that someone might even be Blizzard next year with a separate set of tournaments, but that isn't what WCS is, it isn't what it's designed to be.
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On August 14 2013 23:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Again, you're talking about a soccer worldcup type of tournament which Blizzard stated they didn't want WCS to be
Yes, I think it is The World Cup in the title of the tournament that has me being confused and believing this is a World Cup..
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On August 14 2013 11:35 jax1492 wrote:
NA is not better than EU, Its Korea lite I agree but I still think EU was better.
Eh I'd split the difference personally.
The way I see it...NA's peak ability is higher than EU. Due to a mix of a couple of outstanding foreigners, great Koreans looking for an "easier" path and of course the extremely promising Chinese players.
But EU has on average better players. There are a lot more players who, whilst they might not be at the very top of the game, are more than capable of holding their own and taking games and series off Koreans.
Think about it this way: Scarlett has a good claim on "best foreigner in the world" right now. But there's only one Scarlett. Out of the rest of NA how many non-Koreans would you gamble on genuinely competing well against the Koreans? Two or three? Maybe?
On the other hand looking at WCS EU you've got LucifroN, VortiX, Naniwa, Grubby, TLO, etc etc. Quite a lot of players who compete well against Koreans.
In short: if everyone in NA and EU was competing in the same tournament then if you had to put money on it then the smart money would be that EU region representation would be higher, but an NA player would be more likely to win it.
Or in other words if I had to choose one region to put an entire team together from it'd be EU. But if I had to pick a star player I'd probably want to pick someone from NA.
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On August 14 2013 23:21 Vindicare605 wrote:
Look the WCS isn't designed to find the best player in Europe or North America. That isn't its goal. That was its goal last year but when they redid the system they changed what they were trying to do.
The WCS is designed now with the purpose of creating a Master's Tournament that crowns a global champion yearly. It's the World Cup, the Superbowl whatever you want to call it. It's the big prize that every player on the planet dreams of. The entire format they've currently developed is built with the purpose of building towards the finals at the end of the year. That's why there is no region locking, If there was region locking then the finals at the end of the year will just be a repeat of 2012 where the Koreans stomp on everyone that managed to get through the other regions and the eventual champion is whichever of the small number of lucky Koreans that made it through their own stacked tournament to get there.
Its completely anti-climactic and goes against what Blizzard is trying to do.
I feel for people that want a big tournament that focuses on finding the best player in Europe or NA but that IS NOT what the WCS is for, and people clamoring for Region Locking can't seem to grasp that what they want isn't what Blizzard wanted when they made WCS in the first place, the goals are not the same.
If the demand is there for a big region locked tournament that crowns the big title for Europe or NA then someone else will come along to fill that void, hell that someone might even be Blizzard next year with a separate set of tournaments, but that isn't what WCS is, it isn't what it's designed to be.
Then with risk of sounding bad... Why the Hell call is WCS EU and WCS NA? Why not just have WCS GSL (Korea) and get it done with if the point is to find the best player in the world and not foster the regions? They can invite Naniwa and Scarlett to the challanger division. Anyone else who wanna compete can move to Korea and try their luck in the qualifiers.
If this is the goal and purpose of WCS then atleast have the decency to name it correctly and don't confuse us fans. I also think comparing the current WCS to superbowl is a very good comparison. Noone in the world outside of one country (the USA) cares about that event.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:25 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Again, you're talking about a soccer worldcup type of tournament which Blizzard stated they didn't want WCS to be Yes, I think it is The World Cup in the title of the tournament that has me being confused and believing this is a World Cup..
Yeah I mentioned long ago that Blizzard should have chosen a different name. Although it's difficult to think of an alternative since it's being held in different parts of the world. The sticking point really is that they are being held in specific regions that have a sense of entitlement for a local scene, so those regions are calling for isolation. Had they been held in less popular areas, say SEA/CN/AUS, none of the AM/EU guys would be calling for region locking.
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On August 14 2013 23:31 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 11:35 jax1492 wrote:
NA is not better than EU, Its Korea lite I agree but I still think EU was better. Eh I'd split the difference personally. The way I see it...NA's peak ability is higher than EU. Due to a mix of a couple of outstanding foreigners, great Koreans looking for an "easier" path and of course the extremely promising Chinese players. But EU has on average better players. There are a lot more players who, whilst they might not be at the very top of the game, are more than capable of holding their own and taking games and series off Koreans. Think about it this way: Scarlett has a good claim on "best foreigner in the world" right now. But there's only one Scarlett. Out of the rest of NA how many non-Koreans would you gamble on genuinely competing well against the Koreans? Two or three? Maybe? On the other hand looking at WCS EU you've got LucifroN, VortiX, Naniwa, Grubby, TLO, etc etc. Quite a lot of players who compete well against Koreans. In short: if everyone in NA and EU was competing in the same tournament then if you had to put money on it then the smart money would be that EU region representation would be higher, but an NA player would be more likely to win it. Or in other words if I had to choose one region to put an entire team together from it'd be EU. But if I had to pick a star player I'd probably want to pick someone from NA.
I dunno, I think Koreans as good as Polt and Taeja would stomp just as easily through Europe as they did through NA.
I'm not saying that you're wrong about Europe having on average superior pros to NA, but I think you're overestimating their chances against Code S level Koreans cross server lag not being a factor.
Put another way, MC, Duckdeok and MMA conquered Europe this season. They aren't even close to being on the same level as Polt or Taeja.
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On August 14 2013 23:32 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:21 Vindicare605 wrote:
Look the WCS isn't designed to find the best player in Europe or North America. That isn't its goal. That was its goal last year but when they redid the system they changed what they were trying to do.
The WCS is designed now with the purpose of creating a Master's Tournament that crowns a global champion yearly. It's the World Cup, the Superbowl whatever you want to call it. It's the big prize that every player on the planet dreams of. The entire format they've currently developed is built with the purpose of building towards the finals at the end of the year. That's why there is no region locking, If there was region locking then the finals at the end of the year will just be a repeat of 2012 where the Koreans stomp on everyone that managed to get through the other regions and the eventual champion is whichever of the small number of lucky Koreans that made it through their own stacked tournament to get there.
Its completely anti-climactic and goes against what Blizzard is trying to do.
I feel for people that want a big tournament that focuses on finding the best player in Europe or NA but that IS NOT what the WCS is for, and people clamoring for Region Locking can't seem to grasp that what they want isn't what Blizzard wanted when they made WCS in the first place, the goals are not the same.
If the demand is there for a big region locked tournament that crowns the big title for Europe or NA then someone else will come along to fill that void, hell that someone might even be Blizzard next year with a separate set of tournaments, but that isn't what WCS is, it isn't what it's designed to be. Then with risk of sounding bad... Why the Hell call is WCS EU and WCS NA? Why not just have WCS GSL (Korea) and get it done with if the point is to find the best player in the world and not foster the regions? They can invite Naniwa and Scarlett to the challanger division. Anyone else who wanna compete can move to Korea and try their luck in the qualifiers. If this is the goal and purpose of WCS then atleast have the decency to name it correctly and don't confuse us fans. I also think comparing the current WCS to superbowl is a very good comparison. Noone in the world outside of one country (the USA) cares about that event.
I'm not disagreeing with you that perhaps the regions could be named to something else more arbitrary like Auir, Char or Korhal (keeping with Starcraft theme.) and that it is a little confusing especially after last year's format.
However, I will say that you are absolutely dead wrong about your last sentence. This attitude of "if its dominated by Koreans then I'm not watching" is that of a vocal minority.
I personally will NEVER understand why the nationality of a player has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not a fan will support him. I don't get it. I don't get it in Sports, I don't get it in e-sports. I understand the attitude exists but this scene can and will survive without people that let that attitude dominate their thinking.
Will it shrink, perhaps, but it will survive.
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On August 14 2013 23:32 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:25 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 23:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Again, you're talking about a soccer worldcup type of tournament which Blizzard stated they didn't want WCS to be Yes, I think it is The World Cup in the title of the tournament that has me being confused and believing this is a World Cup.. Yeah I mentioned long ago that Blizzard should have chosen a different name. Although it's difficult to think of an alternative since it's being held in different parts of the world. The sticking point really is that they are being held in specific regions that have a sense of entitlement for a local scene, so those regions are calling for isolation. Had they been held in less popular areas, say SEA/CN/AUS, none of the AM/EU guys would be calling for region locking.
Agreed.
They could also had made their intentions clear from the start. Had they stated that the purpose of this tournament is to showcase koreans on prime time in all regions we would have known what to expect. And they might not have recieved such a bad reception from fans and enthusiasts.
(And someone else could had started to take up the torch from last year and form a real WCS EU right away. And No, WCG is not it, it lacks a lot of countries and good players and seems to miss continental finals)
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After that last game, I feel like the #1 thing Scarlett lacks is starsense and series control. Unfortunately, I think that's the hardest thing to develop for a Starcraft player.
Edit: They could work it with the angle of "we want to provide fans in all three regions the opportunity to see great games, that's why we're hosting them there, but they are all three normal tournaments which we will be renaming to X, Y, and Z". I would be cool with that.
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On August 14 2013 23:40 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:32 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 23:21 Vindicare605 wrote:
Look the WCS isn't designed to find the best player in Europe or North America. That isn't its goal. That was its goal last year but when they redid the system they changed what they were trying to do.
The WCS is designed now with the purpose of creating a Master's Tournament that crowns a global champion yearly. It's the World Cup, the Superbowl whatever you want to call it. It's the big prize that every player on the planet dreams of. The entire format they've currently developed is built with the purpose of building towards the finals at the end of the year. That's why there is no region locking, If there was region locking then the finals at the end of the year will just be a repeat of 2012 where the Koreans stomp on everyone that managed to get through the other regions and the eventual champion is whichever of the small number of lucky Koreans that made it through their own stacked tournament to get there.
Its completely anti-climactic and goes against what Blizzard is trying to do.
I feel for people that want a big tournament that focuses on finding the best player in Europe or NA but that IS NOT what the WCS is for, and people clamoring for Region Locking can't seem to grasp that what they want isn't what Blizzard wanted when they made WCS in the first place, the goals are not the same.
If the demand is there for a big region locked tournament that crowns the big title for Europe or NA then someone else will come along to fill that void, hell that someone might even be Blizzard next year with a separate set of tournaments, but that isn't what WCS is, it isn't what it's designed to be. Then with risk of sounding bad... Why the Hell call is WCS EU and WCS NA? Why not just have WCS GSL (Korea) and get it done with if the point is to find the best player in the world and not foster the regions? They can invite Naniwa and Scarlett to the challanger division. Anyone else who wanna compete can move to Korea and try their luck in the qualifiers. If this is the goal and purpose of WCS then atleast have the decency to name it correctly and don't confuse us fans. I also think comparing the current WCS to superbowl is a very good comparison. Noone in the world outside of one country (the USA) cares about that event. I'm not disagreeing with you that perhaps the regions could be named to something else more arbitrary like Auir, Char or Korhal (keeping with Starcraft theme.) and that it is a little confusing especially after last year's format. However, I will say that you are absolutely dead wrong about your last sentence. This attitude of "if its dominated by Koreans then I'm not watching" is that of a vocal minority. I personally will NEVER understand why the nationality of a player has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not a fan will support him. I don't get it. I don't get it in Sports, I don't get it in e-sports. I understand the attitude exists but this scene can and will survive without people that let that attitude dominate their thinking. Will it shrink, perhaps, but it will survive.
It will shrink to Broodwar, the last years.
I do care about who is the best korean. I watch the GSL to see that. I just do not understand why you want to watch WCS AM/EU to see who is the best korean. If you want to see good koreans in your own time zone there is/was already Dreamhack and MLGs that sported this.
What differs us in who we choose to cheer for is that I like to feel somewhat connected to whom I cheer for. Naniwa for instance has grown up in the same country and same region of that country as me. I know what he must have gone through to get to where it is. This makes it much easier for me to sympatize with him and feel pride etc if he wins something than a korean which I have absolutely nothing in common with. I have no idea what his life must have been like and cannot imagine what challanges he has faced. This is normal in sports fans. This is why you typically root for your local team in sports and not for the team on the other side of the earth (unless you just wanna be different from your local friends). For me it's equally amazing to find that there apperently are people who have never felt this connection to their local comunity.
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On August 14 2013 23:31 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 11:35 jax1492 wrote:
NA is not better than EU, Its Korea lite I agree but I still think EU was better. Eh I'd split the difference personally. The way I see it...NA's peak ability is higher than EU. Due to a mix of a couple of outstanding foreigners, great Koreans looking for an "easier" path and of course the extremely promising Chinese players. But EU has on average better players. There are a lot more players who, whilst they might not be at the very top of the game, are more than capable of holding their own and taking games and series off Koreans. Think about it this way: Scarlett has a good claim on "best foreigner in the world" right now. But there's only one Scarlett. Out of the rest of NA how many non-Koreans would you gamble on genuinely competing well against the Koreans? Two or three? Maybe? On the other hand looking at WCS EU you've got LucifroN, VortiX, Naniwa, Grubby, TLO, etc etc. Quite a lot of players who compete well against Koreans. In short: if everyone in NA and EU was competing in the same tournament then if you had to put money on it then the smart money would be that EU region representation would be higher, but an NA player would be more likely to win it. Or in other words if I had to choose one region to put an entire team together from it'd be EU. But if I had to pick a star player I'd probably want to pick someone from NA.
AM have Scarlett.....Scarlett.....Scarlett...?
AM have only one player that could hardly win merged EU/NA and her name is Scarlett.
EU have like you said Naniwa, Lucifron, VortiX, Grubby, HasuObs and Welmu.
I don't get where you get your idea that NA player would most likely to win it ![[image loading]](http://board.fi.ogame.org/wcf/images/smilies/pillepalle.gif)
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On August 15 2013 00:03 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:31 -Celestial- wrote:On August 14 2013 11:35 jax1492 wrote:
NA is not better than EU, Its Korea lite I agree but I still think EU was better. Eh I'd split the difference personally. The way I see it...NA's peak ability is higher than EU. Due to a mix of a couple of outstanding foreigners, great Koreans looking for an "easier" path and of course the extremely promising Chinese players. But EU has on average better players. There are a lot more players who, whilst they might not be at the very top of the game, are more than capable of holding their own and taking games and series off Koreans. Think about it this way: Scarlett has a good claim on "best foreigner in the world" right now. But there's only one Scarlett. Out of the rest of NA how many non-Koreans would you gamble on genuinely competing well against the Koreans? Two or three? Maybe? On the other hand looking at WCS EU you've got LucifroN, VortiX, Naniwa, Grubby, TLO, etc etc. Quite a lot of players who compete well against Koreans. In short: if everyone in NA and EU was competing in the same tournament then if you had to put money on it then the smart money would be that EU region representation would be higher, but an NA player would be more likely to win it. Or in other words if I had to choose one region to put an entire team together from it'd be EU. But if I had to pick a star player I'd probably want to pick someone from NA. AM have Scarlett.....Scarlett.....Scarlett...? AM have only one player that could hardly win merged EU/NA and her name is Scarlett. EU have like you said Naniwa, Lucifron, VortiX, Grubby, HasuObs and Welmu. I don't get where you get your idea that NA player would most likely to win it
Because AM also has a ton of Koreans in it. The foreign EU players are definitely better than the foreign AM players, but AM has more and better Korean players than EU.
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:56 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:40 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 14 2013 23:32 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 23:21 Vindicare605 wrote:
Look the WCS isn't designed to find the best player in Europe or North America. That isn't its goal. That was its goal last year but when they redid the system they changed what they were trying to do.
The WCS is designed now with the purpose of creating a Master's Tournament that crowns a global champion yearly. It's the World Cup, the Superbowl whatever you want to call it. It's the big prize that every player on the planet dreams of. The entire format they've currently developed is built with the purpose of building towards the finals at the end of the year. That's why there is no region locking, If there was region locking then the finals at the end of the year will just be a repeat of 2012 where the Koreans stomp on everyone that managed to get through the other regions and the eventual champion is whichever of the small number of lucky Koreans that made it through their own stacked tournament to get there.
Its completely anti-climactic and goes against what Blizzard is trying to do.
I feel for people that want a big tournament that focuses on finding the best player in Europe or NA but that IS NOT what the WCS is for, and people clamoring for Region Locking can't seem to grasp that what they want isn't what Blizzard wanted when they made WCS in the first place, the goals are not the same.
If the demand is there for a big region locked tournament that crowns the big title for Europe or NA then someone else will come along to fill that void, hell that someone might even be Blizzard next year with a separate set of tournaments, but that isn't what WCS is, it isn't what it's designed to be. Then with risk of sounding bad... Why the Hell call is WCS EU and WCS NA? Why not just have WCS GSL (Korea) and get it done with if the point is to find the best player in the world and not foster the regions? They can invite Naniwa and Scarlett to the challanger division. Anyone else who wanna compete can move to Korea and try their luck in the qualifiers. If this is the goal and purpose of WCS then atleast have the decency to name it correctly and don't confuse us fans. I also think comparing the current WCS to superbowl is a very good comparison. Noone in the world outside of one country (the USA) cares about that event. I'm not disagreeing with you that perhaps the regions could be named to something else more arbitrary like Auir, Char or Korhal (keeping with Starcraft theme.) and that it is a little confusing especially after last year's format. However, I will say that you are absolutely dead wrong about your last sentence. This attitude of "if its dominated by Koreans then I'm not watching" is that of a vocal minority. I personally will NEVER understand why the nationality of a player has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not a fan will support him. I don't get it. I don't get it in Sports, I don't get it in e-sports. I understand the attitude exists but this scene can and will survive without people that let that attitude dominate their thinking. Will it shrink, perhaps, but it will survive. It will shrink to Broodwar, the last years. I do care about who is the best korean. I watch the GSL to see that. I just do not understand why you want to watch WCS AM/EU to see who is the best korean. If you want to see good koreans in your own time zone there is/was already Dreamhack and MLGs that sported this. What differs us in who we choose to cheer for is that I like to feel somewhat connected to whom I cheer for. Naniwa for instance has grown up in the same country and same region of that country as me. I know what he must have gone through to get to where it is. This makes it much easier for me to sympatize with him and feel pride etc if he wins something than a korean which I have absolutely nothing in common with. I have no idea what his life must have been like and cannot imagine what challanges he has faced. This is normal in sports fans. This is why you typically root for your local team in sports and not for the team on the other side of the earth (unless you just wanna be different from your local friends). For me it's equally amazing to find that there apperently are people who have never felt this connection to their local comunity.
Only reason i watch WCS EU is to see whether some of our beloved foreigners can take out korean. It happens (*cough*Grubby*cough*), but it is rare. I watch WCS AM for players, whom i know can produce really good games or who are so hyped up, that i want to see how they'll do (*cough*Jim*cough*).
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lol. Welmu and Grubby somehow mentioned as possible "best foreigner in the world" haha.
Don't get me wrong, Grubby is like, the best person ever) and as a WC3 veteran and having loved Grubby's play for so long, I would love it for him to be the best foreigner in the world just like in WC3, but come on.. lol.
Him and Welmu are "getting there". They don't even come close to that title. Even if they both made the finals, 1 tournament doesn't give you that title anyways.
This was a fun write up, but NA isn't going to die unless NA orgas die. All of these doomsday forecasts aren't looking in the right places.
Theognis retired? Okay. That happens literally everywhere. NA is weak? Nobody is going to argue that.
NA has awesome infrastructure to improve? Hmm no? Things aside from winning tournaments is what's going to get NA in a better place? Yes
If HuK and Scarlett got first and 2nd in WCS NA, you'd immediately say NA is saved? Come on.... Tournament results are nice, but they are close to nothing when you look at the bigger picture.
Imo, the behind the scenes work being done in NA is much more important than the NA's WCS standings.
NA is looking pretty good right now, relatively speaking.
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perfect resumee:
Region locking is something we'll be talking about on end until the rules for the 2014 WCS season are announced, but by then, there might not be a North American scene left to save.
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On August 14 2013 23:55 VisonKai wrote:
After that last game, I feel like the #1 thing Scarlett lacks is starsense and series control. Unfortunately, I think that's the hardest thing to develop for a Starcraft player.
Edit: They could work it with the angle of "we want to provide fans in all three regions the opportunity to see great games, that's why we're hosting them there, but they are all three normal tournaments which we will be renaming to X, Y, and Z". I would be cool with that.
She said it herself that she just didn't expect a 6 pool on that map, she had prepared for everything else.
Jaedong was just more experienced in that kind of situation, can't fault Scarlett for that at all.
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On August 14 2013 04:40 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 04:26 Swisslink wrote:On August 14 2013 04:05 Incognoto wrote:
Scarlett is definitely probably one of the best foreigners. I would go further: Probably one of the top Zerg including the Koreans. Beside Soulkey I don't see a Zerg who I'd consider much stronger than Scarlett. There might be a few around her level, depending on the matchup, but in general I don't think so. ... unfortunately she won't participate next season :-/ On August 14 2013 04:26 Corrish wrote:
If I remember correctly Scarlett confirmed in an interview in WCS AM finals that she'll be taking a break after this season to get treatment for her wrist. Which is probably the smart thing to do, but still a shame, especially with the Season final held in her home country. She didn't "confirm" it, she just said she might take a break. Not 100% sure yet, afaik. You overrate me ;; Especially in tournaments I play worse due to big nerve issue, and don't have solid ZvP at all ~ I am taking a break for sure, whether I can't play in WCS season 3 depends on the dates for WCS, not whether I am taking time off (99% won't be playing in it as I will be gone all of september)
I think you're selling yourself short. You came 1 game away from making to the WCS AM Finals.
You gotta believe. Not everyone who believes they are the best becomes the best, but no one who doesn't believe they are the best, becomes the best. You become a champion in your own mind first.
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On August 14 2013 23:40 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:32 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 23:21 Vindicare605 wrote:
Look the WCS isn't designed to find the best player in Europe or North America. That isn't its goal. That was its goal last year but when they redid the system they changed what they were trying to do.
The WCS is designed now with the purpose of creating a Master's Tournament that crowns a global champion yearly. It's the World Cup, the Superbowl whatever you want to call it. It's the big prize that every player on the planet dreams of. The entire format they've currently developed is built with the purpose of building towards the finals at the end of the year. That's why there is no region locking, If there was region locking then the finals at the end of the year will just be a repeat of 2012 where the Koreans stomp on everyone that managed to get through the other regions and the eventual champion is whichever of the small number of lucky Koreans that made it through their own stacked tournament to get there.
Its completely anti-climactic and goes against what Blizzard is trying to do.
I feel for people that want a big tournament that focuses on finding the best player in Europe or NA but that IS NOT what the WCS is for, and people clamoring for Region Locking can't seem to grasp that what they want isn't what Blizzard wanted when they made WCS in the first place, the goals are not the same.
If the demand is there for a big region locked tournament that crowns the big title for Europe or NA then someone else will come along to fill that void, hell that someone might even be Blizzard next year with a separate set of tournaments, but that isn't what WCS is, it isn't what it's designed to be. Then with risk of sounding bad... Why the Hell call is WCS EU and WCS NA? Why not just have WCS GSL (Korea) and get it done with if the point is to find the best player in the world and not foster the regions? They can invite Naniwa and Scarlett to the challanger division. Anyone else who wanna compete can move to Korea and try their luck in the qualifiers. If this is the goal and purpose of WCS then atleast have the decency to name it correctly and don't confuse us fans. I also think comparing the current WCS to superbowl is a very good comparison. Noone in the world outside of one country (the USA) cares about that event. I'm not disagreeing with you that perhaps the regions could be named to something else more arbitrary like Auir, Char or Korhal (keeping with Starcraft theme.) and that it is a little confusing especially after last year's format. However, I will say that you are absolutely dead wrong about your last sentence. This attitude of "if its dominated by Koreans then I'm not watching" is that of a vocal minority. I personally will NEVER understand why the nationality of a player has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not a fan will support him. I don't get it. I don't get it in Sports, I don't get it in e-sports. I understand the attitude exists but this scene can and will survive without people that let that attitude dominate their thinking. Will it shrink, perhaps, but it will survive.
Maybe you aren't proud of your country.
Why I cheer for player that I cheer for?
Why I watch tournaments that I watch?
Players that I cheer for:
Nationality (1st Finnish, 2th Nordic, 3rd European, 4th Foreign, 5th Korean) So I cheer Finnish player vs swe/nor/den player. But if there isnt finnish player then in most cases I cheer for swe/nor/den vs european(non nordic). But ALWAYS I cheer for foreign vs korean.
Personality (Funny/Entertaining<--->BM/rage) (good<---->bad)
So players that I cheer for.
Welmu, elfi, Fuzer, Naama, Protosser---> every finnish player. We have so less finnish players that basically being finnish is same as being in same team. Grubby, Naniwa, TLO, Stephano....
I don't cheer for any korean player coz there is nothing to cheer for. Or should I cheer for translator coz he is speaking to us?
Lvl of gameplay comes after this. So I only watch tournaments where are my favorite players and try to catch their games.
omg, that's so bad said. I have to write this again sometime with better english so somebody could understand this. Even I dont understand this perfectly :D I have idea in brains but hard to write in english 
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On August 15 2013 00:06 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 00:03 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On August 14 2013 23:31 -Celestial- wrote:On August 14 2013 11:35 jax1492 wrote:
NA is not better than EU, Its Korea lite I agree but I still think EU was better. Eh I'd split the difference personally. The way I see it...NA's peak ability is higher than EU. Due to a mix of a couple of outstanding foreigners, great Koreans looking for an "easier" path and of course the extremely promising Chinese players. But EU has on average better players. There are a lot more players who, whilst they might not be at the very top of the game, are more than capable of holding their own and taking games and series off Koreans. Think about it this way: Scarlett has a good claim on "best foreigner in the world" right now. But there's only one Scarlett. Out of the rest of NA how many non-Koreans would you gamble on genuinely competing well against the Koreans? Two or three? Maybe? On the other hand looking at WCS EU you've got LucifroN, VortiX, Naniwa, Grubby, TLO, etc etc. Quite a lot of players who compete well against Koreans. In short: if everyone in NA and EU was competing in the same tournament then if you had to put money on it then the smart money would be that EU region representation would be higher, but an NA player would be more likely to win it. Or in other words if I had to choose one region to put an entire team together from it'd be EU. But if I had to pick a star player I'd probably want to pick someone from NA. AM have Scarlett.....Scarlett.....Scarlett...? AM have only one player that could hardly win merged EU/NA and her name is Scarlett. EU have like you said Naniwa, Lucifron, VortiX, Grubby, HasuObs and Welmu. I don't get where you get your idea that NA player would most likely to win it Because AM also has a ton of Koreans in it. The foreign EU players are definitely better than the foreign AM players, but AM has more and better Korean players than EU.
He was saying AM players vs EU players. No koreans. I understood his post like that. He didnt said single korean player in his post...
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On August 15 2013 00:10 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:56 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 23:40 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 14 2013 23:32 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 23:21 Vindicare605 wrote:
Look the WCS isn't designed to find the best player in Europe or North America. That isn't its goal. That was its goal last year but when they redid the system they changed what they were trying to do.
The WCS is designed now with the purpose of creating a Master's Tournament that crowns a global champion yearly. It's the World Cup, the Superbowl whatever you want to call it. It's the big prize that every player on the planet dreams of. The entire format they've currently developed is built with the purpose of building towards the finals at the end of the year. That's why there is no region locking, If there was region locking then the finals at the end of the year will just be a repeat of 2012 where the Koreans stomp on everyone that managed to get through the other regions and the eventual champion is whichever of the small number of lucky Koreans that made it through their own stacked tournament to get there.
Its completely anti-climactic and goes against what Blizzard is trying to do.
I feel for people that want a big tournament that focuses on finding the best player in Europe or NA but that IS NOT what the WCS is for, and people clamoring for Region Locking can't seem to grasp that what they want isn't what Blizzard wanted when they made WCS in the first place, the goals are not the same.
If the demand is there for a big region locked tournament that crowns the big title for Europe or NA then someone else will come along to fill that void, hell that someone might even be Blizzard next year with a separate set of tournaments, but that isn't what WCS is, it isn't what it's designed to be. Then with risk of sounding bad... Why the Hell call is WCS EU and WCS NA? Why not just have WCS GSL (Korea) and get it done with if the point is to find the best player in the world and not foster the regions? They can invite Naniwa and Scarlett to the challanger division. Anyone else who wanna compete can move to Korea and try their luck in the qualifiers. If this is the goal and purpose of WCS then atleast have the decency to name it correctly and don't confuse us fans. I also think comparing the current WCS to superbowl is a very good comparison. Noone in the world outside of one country (the USA) cares about that event. I'm not disagreeing with you that perhaps the regions could be named to something else more arbitrary like Auir, Char or Korhal (keeping with Starcraft theme.) and that it is a little confusing especially after last year's format. However, I will say that you are absolutely dead wrong about your last sentence. This attitude of "if its dominated by Koreans then I'm not watching" is that of a vocal minority. I personally will NEVER understand why the nationality of a player has any bearing whatsoever on whether or not a fan will support him. I don't get it. I don't get it in Sports, I don't get it in e-sports. I understand the attitude exists but this scene can and will survive without people that let that attitude dominate their thinking. Will it shrink, perhaps, but it will survive. It will shrink to Broodwar, the last years. I do care about who is the best korean. I watch the GSL to see that. I just do not understand why you want to watch WCS AM/EU to see who is the best korean. If you want to see good koreans in your own time zone there is/was already Dreamhack and MLGs that sported this. What differs us in who we choose to cheer for is that I like to feel somewhat connected to whom I cheer for. Naniwa for instance has grown up in the same country and same region of that country as me. I know what he must have gone through to get to where it is. This makes it much easier for me to sympatize with him and feel pride etc if he wins something than a korean which I have absolutely nothing in common with. I have no idea what his life must have been like and cannot imagine what challanges he has faced. This is normal in sports fans. This is why you typically root for your local team in sports and not for the team on the other side of the earth (unless you just wanna be different from your local friends). For me it's equally amazing to find that there apperently are people who have never felt this connection to their local comunity. Only reason i watch WCS EU is to see whether some of our beloved foreigners can take out korean. It happens (*cough*Grubby*cough*), but it is rare. I watch WCS AM for players, whom i know can produce really good games or who are so hyped up, that i want to see how they'll do (*cough*Jim*cough*).
And with this I am to assume you did not watch WCS EU 2012 then since it held no koreans to defeat. Just poor games between europeans? If this isn't true and you watched it your point is mute.
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EPT
