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On August 15 2013 21:04 Naturedota wrote:
It makes absolutely no sense to allow koreans, or anyone who is no living in the region, to take part in the competition in american region. Same applies to all regions, so koreans should be allowed to compete only in korea, and europeas only in europe etc. This way, whole region thing actually makes sense and promotes local scene.
and then no one watches WCS America because there's not actually anyone good there.
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Maybe they get better without koreans outright shutting down all competition there.
It is just nonsensical to have "regions" if anyone can play anywhere.
Btw, why do people talk about "offline" tournaments? There is no such thing as "offline" with SC2, since every game requires internet connection to the battle.net.
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Why would they improve without competition? If they can win money without they will not do a thing. Human nature. It makes no sense to have a global final with scrubs in it.
The underdog stories you feel are so great are already present but not in global finals but in regionals. Now we have non Koreans in the global finals that earned their spot and are capable of upsetting Players yet they are still underdog stories so why do you keep complaining?
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It was a side note which was not main argument against free region policy. Allowing everyone to compete everywhere defeats the purpose of region system at the first place, no matter how you look at it. Might aswell have no regions at all and call whole thing a "global qualifiers" or something like that.
And for that other sidenote about competition, it is generally better to compete against equally or just slightly better opponents to improve, than to encounter many tiers better player who completely smashes you. But on the other hand, tournaments are not place for practise so it doesnt really matter.
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The offline portions of the tournaments are in the specific region.
I also disagree that you improve faster/better playing equally good or slightly better opponents compared to way superior players.
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On August 15 2013 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:04 Naturedota wrote:
It makes absolutely no sense to allow koreans, or anyone who is no living in the region, to take part in the competition in american region. Same applies to all regions, so koreans should be allowed to compete only in korea, and europeas only in europe etc. This way, whole region thing actually makes sense and promotes local scene. and then no one watches WCS America because there's not actually anyone good there.
BS. Players don't have to be top 20 worldwide to have interesting matches. People will watch because they can root for their favourite players. And that happens alot more when there are 'local' players playing. With local in broadest sense since any player from the same continent would already be nice.
On August 15 2013 21:31 NarutO wrote:
Why would they improve without competition? If they can win money without they will not do a thing. Human nature. It makes no sense to have a global final with scrubs in it.
The underdog stories you feel are so great are already present but not in global finals but in regionals. Now we have non Koreans in the global finals that earned their spot and are capable of upsetting Players yet they are still underdog stories so why do you keep complaining?
Ah without Koreans everyone in AM region gets loads of free money coming in? Then I can just also enter the tournament as low master player and get my free money? And I apparantly don't have to do a thing for it, I just get it.
But how exactly do you see this happening? Without Koreans they still have to play each other for the number 1 spot. Or to follow your logic: Currently they cannot win money while spending alot of time on it. Why would they do that when they cannot win money anyway?
I also disagree that you improve faster/better playing equally good or slightly better opponents compared to way superior players.
I disagree there. Getting stomped is generally not a good way to improve. And we still have for that we have plenty of open tournaments. Against opponents of similar/slightly better level you can consider what you did wrong. Against way superior opponents you wonder in the end wtf happened.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On August 15 2013 21:46 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:On August 15 2013 21:04 Naturedota wrote:
It makes absolutely no sense to allow koreans, or anyone who is no living in the region, to take part in the competition in american region. Same applies to all regions, so koreans should be allowed to compete only in korea, and europeas only in europe etc. This way, whole region thing actually makes sense and promotes local scene. and then no one watches WCS America because there's not actually anyone good there. BS. Players don't have to be top 20 worldwide to have interesting matches. People will watch because they can root for their favourite players. And that happens alot more when there are 'local' players playing. With local in broadest sense since any player from the same continent would already be nice. Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:31 NarutO wrote:
Why would they improve without competition? If they can win money without they will not do a thing. Human nature. It makes no sense to have a global final with scrubs in it.
The underdog stories you feel are so great are already present but not in global finals but in regionals. Now we have non Koreans in the global finals that earned their spot and are capable of upsetting Players yet they are still underdog stories so why do you keep complaining? Ah without Koreans everyone in AM region gets loads of free money coming in? Then I can just also enter the tournament as low master player and get my free money? And I apparantly don't have to do a thing for it, I just get it. But how exactly do you see this happening? Without Koreans they still have to play each other for the number 1 spot. Or to follow your logic: Currently they cannot win money while spending alot of time on it. Why would they do that when they cannot win money anyway? Show nested quote +I also disagree that you improve faster/better playing equally good or slightly better opponents compared to way superior players. I disagree there. Getting stomped is generally not a good way to improve. And we still have for that we have plenty of open tournaments. Against opponents of similar/slightly better level you can consider what you did wrong. Against way superior opponents you wonder in the end wtf happened.
He's saying that if you play players of equal or slightly superior skill, you'll never be able to improve (nor will you have the need to) beyond that level. If you need arbitrary skill level X to win a WCS, there will be no point in striving for arbitrary skill level Y. It's human nature to do what's needed, not more.
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But you cannot just improve from level 1 to 10, you need to improve to level 2 first, then 3 etc. And even without koreans, having to compete against other "less skilled than koreans", they would need to improve their own gameplay infinitely because people want to get through the qualifier. American player A beats B, hence B needs to get better than A to beat him next time, and then A needs to get better again etc.
"offline" portions of the tournament being in certain location, does not warrant "region" system. As it is now, WCS works as global qualifiers for the grand final.
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On August 15 2013 21:50 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:46 Sissors wrote:On August 15 2013 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:On August 15 2013 21:04 Naturedota wrote:
It makes absolutely no sense to allow koreans, or anyone who is no living in the region, to take part in the competition in american region. Same applies to all regions, so koreans should be allowed to compete only in korea, and europeas only in europe etc. This way, whole region thing actually makes sense and promotes local scene. and then no one watches WCS America because there's not actually anyone good there. BS. Players don't have to be top 20 worldwide to have interesting matches. People will watch because they can root for their favourite players. And that happens alot more when there are 'local' players playing. With local in broadest sense since any player from the same continent would already be nice. On August 15 2013 21:31 NarutO wrote:
Why would they improve without competition? If they can win money without they will not do a thing. Human nature. It makes no sense to have a global final with scrubs in it.
The underdog stories you feel are so great are already present but not in global finals but in regionals. Now we have non Koreans in the global finals that earned their spot and are capable of upsetting Players yet they are still underdog stories so why do you keep complaining? Ah without Koreans everyone in AM region gets loads of free money coming in? Then I can just also enter the tournament as low master player and get my free money? And I apparantly don't have to do a thing for it, I just get it. But how exactly do you see this happening? Without Koreans they still have to play each other for the number 1 spot. Or to follow your logic: Currently they cannot win money while spending alot of time on it. Why would they do that when they cannot win money anyway? I also disagree that you improve faster/better playing equally good or slightly better opponents compared to way superior players. I disagree there. Getting stomped is generally not a good way to improve. And we still have for that we have plenty of open tournaments. Against opponents of similar/slightly better level you can consider what you did wrong. Against way superior opponents you wonder in the end wtf happened. He's saying that if you play players of equal or slightly superior skill, you'll never be able to improve (nor will you have the need to) beyond that level. If you need arbitrary skill level X to win a WCS, there will be no point in striving for arbitrary skill level Y. It's human nature to do what's needed, not more.
But where comes this idea from you need skill level X to win a WCS? There are still a whole bunch of Americans (and Chinese) who all want that number one spot. So getting to skill level X won't do it, since you opponents will try to do the same. You have to stay better than your opponents, so you have to keep striving to become better.
Otherwise you could also say code S players don't have the need to improve, since there aren't vastly superior players in code S they all win money without doing a thing for it?
And what nature said above me.
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On August 15 2013 19:41 Naturedota wrote:
Why does koreans have less lag in american region than europe? Korea is geographically closer to europe than america, also there is an ocean between korea and america.
The ocean is why. The cables are lying on the ocean floor.
![[image loading]](http://www.thedaytradingacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/World-Underwater-Sea-Cables.gif)
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But there is still way larger distance from korea to america, than to europe.
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I am argueing your point. 1 month of TvZ practice with Hyun will get me further than 1 month of practice against the likes of me. You will learn to handle the same strategies faster, better etc. If you can defend Hyuns timing you will for the sake of it easily defend for example the timing of slivko which probably comes later and executed worse.
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On August 15 2013 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:04 Naturedota wrote:
It makes absolutely no sense to allow koreans, or anyone who is no living in the region, to take part in the competition in american region. Same applies to all regions, so koreans should be allowed to compete only in korea, and europeas only in europe etc. This way, whole region thing actually makes sense and promotes local scene. and then no one watches WCS America because there's not actually anyone good there.
Scarlett, Goswser, State, Minigun?
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Well, it could work if you had like first hand coaching with Huyn and playing with him regularly every day. But if you just encounter him in the tournament, he just crushes you and you get nothing out of that match really.
The thing is that you dont even improve during tournaments, training happens during your training regimen.
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On August 15 2013 22:07 Naturedota wrote:
But there is still way larger distance from korea to america, than to europe.
Look at the density of the cables.
Edit: Also, look how problematic (expensive) it is to lay cables between Europe and East Asia.
Edit2: And actually, the longest cable lays between Germany and Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEA-ME-WE_3
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Yeah but the bandwith does not help, if you dont even need the excessive bandwith to begin with. You only need so much for sc2.
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I really hope Jaedong win WCS Season Final so that he can drop the name Jaekong. It probably the worst name ever lol, Jaedong fighting!
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On August 15 2013 22:22 RiZu wrote:
I really hope Jaedong win WCS Season Final so that he can drop the name Jaekong. It probably the worst name ever lol, Jaedong fighting!
Deserves it after 6pooling Scarlett in game 5 
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Why cant they just use internet from korea through asia to europe? that way the distance is minimum
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On August 15 2013 22:11 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:On August 15 2013 21:04 Naturedota wrote:
It makes absolutely no sense to allow koreans, or anyone who is no living in the region, to take part in the competition in american region. Same applies to all regions, so koreans should be allowed to compete only in korea, and europeas only in europe etc. This way, whole region thing actually makes sense and promotes local scene. and then no one watches WCS America because there's not actually anyone good there. Scarlett, Goswser, State, Minigun?
I'm sorry but those are hardly big draws (at least for me). Talented, maybe, but they won't draw viewers. Or were you being sarcastic?
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EPT
