EPTChanges for balance test map live - Page 12
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Vete
Germany190 Posts
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_Search_
Canada180 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:26 Plansix wrote: Blizzard's plans: Buff everything. I endorse this plan. Terrible idea. It just means the game will become more volatile and less skilled. Already I can barely watch Starcraft anymore because of how unskilled it's become. | ||
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sunless
62 Posts
3. Viper change seems so random. What is the motivation behind it? Is it meant for ZvT? or ZvP? Or just entertainment purpose? Anyway buffing viper, and looking for mech buffs is inconsistent. Giving them 75 starting energy (for an abduct) is already something to test in late game ZvP. But 200, seriously... 2. Mech buff looks pretty strong on paper. But in the current state of the game would it affect anything but TvT? | ||
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NOFX
France32 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:51 Vete wrote: Give Mech a upgrade ( like stim research time ) which mech gives extra dmg against shields and we would see Mech in tvp. Not sure if it could be a completely stupid or brilliant change :p | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:50 Sated wrote: Maybe the reason it only exists in their heads is because there isn't a reason to do it without this buff existing. Think about it. You're going to get Air upgrades for Vikings anyway, right..? Theoretically, this buff would allow Hellbats to be brought in late-game to help deal with Chargelots, since they'd already have the attack power required to make a difference. It's not the worst idea, and would definitely be worth a shot. Not that I am saying it would definitely be a game-changer, but I can at least see the logic behind it. And people say that Protoss aren't innovative  No, mass Ghosts is far superior to deal with Zealots, who aren't the major problem in direct engagements anyway in lategame; Hellbats doing 3-6-9 extra damage to Zealots change nothing to the fact they have only 2 range, which means no synergy with the actual strength of Terran armies (i. e. critical mass of ranged units). The argument of "but Hellbats deal with Zealots warp-ins" is also irrelevant since they're frontline, so by definition they're the first units to die and therefore can't be here anymore to deal with said warp-ins which happen after the fight. | ||
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RifleCow
Canada637 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote: Defiler consume meant you had to kill units. There was a measurable cost in resources required to use it. Much different deal. Read the second sentence. However, that change would probably be too much for a simple patch. I just want to to see defiler-esque play in this game, even in BW it was the only spellcaster you would use over and over again in the same engagement rather than the "one-off" spells you see these days. Defiler was the key factor in Zerg being primarily gas dependent in BW. Having Zerg be gas efficient would be amazing for SC2 because it means that Zerg will take bases only for Gas and you'll see the classic 5/6 base zerg vs 3 base terran trying to shut down the bases. Which is what made BW TvZ so interesting. | ||
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Dingodile
4137 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:26 Aeromi wrote: Vipers with full energy ? Why not  All units begin with full energy (Viper, HT, Ghost, Raven, BC, Phoenix, Queen etc) | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:33 TheDwf wrote: "Mech is weak" → Vipers start with full energy. Alright, it makes sense. Mind. Blown. Terrible mech changes. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:53 Abstinence wrote: Buffs all around. Buffs are always good. I don't understand this "buff > nerf" stereotype, buffs can break the game as well. | ||
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_Search_
Canada180 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:48 pmp10 wrote: Sure and terrans don't play it tvz because of conspiracy? Mech sadly sucks in both tvz and tvp and vikings can't handle vipers as goswser demonstrated. Don't EVER refer to that game as a statement of balance. Lucifron played at a platinum skill level. He clearly doesn't understand mech. There are Terrans I face on ladder who could have won that game easily. He did NO harass with his Ravens and had NO idea what to do once his army was built. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:51 TheDwf wrote: Upgrades change nothing, Vipers can always cast their Clouds before dying. I am sure some player will figure out how to shoot them before they manage to get off blinding cloud. It might not be you, but I am sure there is a player out there willing to figure it out. | ||
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:43 NOFX wrote: Exactly, almost every long PvT macro has at some point vikings and collossi involved, and every good terran upgrade vikings weapons if they're not planing to end the game quickly. No. Midgame hellbats: yes. Lategame you don't want them in your army. You want ghosts and vikings and medivacs and a few marauders. That's the best lategame army. It's funny that after the hellbatnerf, we only see them in tvt. When I told that this would happen, people laughed. Now the hellbat is gone in tvp and tvz, and it won't comeback. 150/150 is too much atm | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:57 TheDwf wrote: I don't understand this "buff > nerf" stereotype, buffs can break the game as well. Range 5 queens say "hi, what's up?" | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:30 archwaykitten wrote: The viper buff feels inelegant to me. In general Blizzard should avoid balancing the game by introducing odd exceptions like this "all spellcaster units start with 50 energy, except for vipers which start with 200". It's an even odder choice on the viper since it's the one unit in the game that can already speed up its mana regeneration through its consume ability. I think it would be better if they just buffed consume. If consume restored energy twice, or even three times as fast as it currently does, you could reach full energy vipers almost as fast as with this patch, while also retaining an ability that otherwise will only rarely be used. If this buffed consume ends up being too strong (since you will be able to reuse vipers again and again), you can always balance it by increasing the amount of damage the ability does to your own structures. In general, I am also against inelegant rules. I rather would try to leave the game in a perceived imbalanced state and keep clear rules and maybe change some damage, armor or HP values. Since the viper can already regenerate energy, it is however somewhat believable if this spellcaster already starts with full energy. It could be explained with lore, for example during the morphing the viper is fed with creep. | ||
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cablesc
United States1540 Posts
Also from just a theory-crafting level, the combined mech upgrades for terran kind of make sense because it takes so long to build up mech they need to have more efficient units. I suspect if this change goes through we'll see a lot more mech into battlecruiser transitions. We'll see how it goes though. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
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Nyvis
France284 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:27 renaissanceMAN wrote: Vipers will full energy? So they didn't learn anything from the HT Amulet upgrade? The f... Maybe because vipers don't kill anything by themselves? Or maybe because they can't be warped on any pylon anywhere on the map? You know, infestors have an upgrade giving them enough energy to start with fungals, and the upgrade in itself isn't as imbalance as the amulet one. The problem with HTs was because of the interaction with protoss mechanics (warpins and being produced from gates). | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
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pmp10
3355 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:57 _Search_ wrote: Don't EVER refer to that game as a statement of balance. Lucifron played at a platinum skill level. He clearly doesn't understand mech. There are Terrans I face on ladder who could have won that game easily. He did NO harass with his Ravens and had NO idea what to do once his army was built. You do realize that Lucifron was the most accomplished foreign meching terran in WoL? But the point stands that most other terrans won't even try and those that do struggle. | ||
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