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On August 08 2013 22:56 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:54 TheFish7 wrote:MLG You're dead to me (Hey, that rhymes) On August 08 2013 22:44 turdburgler wrote:On August 08 2013 22:41 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 08 2013 22:40 Crownlol wrote:
Maybe if the SC2 community would stop being so stubborn about team games we could compete better with teamsports. It's just easier to follow teams, and you have more players to root for. Think about it- people will watch whole matches if ONE of the ten players is one of their favorites.
I've been saying this for years now, but there's no reason mapmakers can't make 2v2 viable. Balance would be a big issue. If you think 1v1 balance is tenuous, 2v2 is like a hundred times more complicated. the biggest problem in 2v2 right now is the map pool. no one can coherently argue balance one way or the other when the maps are on the same quality level as WoL release maps. It has gotten better, but there are definitely still vast improvements to be made. I was kinda disappointed we didn't get more good 2v2 maps out of the TLMC#2. We had some decent ones, but very few standard, balanced, solid 2v2 maps. There also aren't many map makers who have team maps on their radar at all. Why would they? hard to have something on your radar that seemingly no one cares about. There has to be a demand before they'll start supplying it.
Very true. I have said this time and time again: it's a vicious circle.
People don't care much for team games because they're bad; them being bad is mostly due to the maps being played; the maps could be fixed by map makers; map makers have no incentive to make good team maps because:
a) people don't care much for team games
and
b) the few established map-makers this side of Korea do nothing but rehash the same old boring macro maps over and over and over again and shot down any attempt at experimentation or deviation -> which leads to very little interest in map-making overall
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On August 08 2013 22:15 Plansix wrote:Dota 2
And that community is way less bitchy.
Ha. You are funny man.
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That's a shame, I was considering to go to Columbus this time. Guess I'm not anymore.
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On August 08 2013 22:50 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:
All right folks, I figured it out:
The next MLG Championship event is being held on 22-24 November.
Blizzcon is being held Novermber 8-9, with the championship that weekend. Why hold a SC2 event after the world championship? It seems a little redundant. No SC2 in december? Or will we have a blizz cup or something to hold us over?
Did we have SC2 in December last year? I think we had one event. I can deal with an off season and let everyone ramp up. Off seasons are good.
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Not surprising after the reduced prize pool at Spring and lack of a true summer event. Oh well.
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On August 08 2013 22:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:50 packrat386 wrote:On August 08 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:
All right folks, I figured it out:
The next MLG Championship event is being held on 22-24 November.
Blizzcon is being held Novermber 8-9, with the championship that weekend. Why hold a SC2 event after the world championship? It seems a little redundant. No SC2 in december? Or will we have a blizz cup or something to hold us over? Did we have SC2 in December last year. I think we had one event. I can deal with an off season and let everyone ramp up. Off seasons are good.
Yeah off seasons are good, don't know how we're going to compete with the NFL in the winter.
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Sound to me like some shit went down between MLG and Blizzard.
WCS related perhaps?
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On August 08 2013 22:56 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:26 packrat386 wrote:On August 08 2013 22:22 SpecialistSc wrote:
simply put, sc2 is not a investment that's worth any more
just look at the viewer count
a single LoL pro's stream gets more views than WCS America premiere league early stages
So WHY invest in sc2? MLG good job, nobody can blame you guys for making a sensical decision This is kind of a shitty argument. "A single regular season NFL game gets more viewers than the WCS AM finals". That doesn't mean that its impossible to make money on SC2. yea but u can make more money on LoL. Sc2 esports is shrinking/dying whether you like it or not.
You're speaking in simplistic hyperbole when the current situation is WAY more complicated than that.
WCS is fucking everything up especially for the major players like MLG that existed before it.
On a broader scale SC2 isn't shrinking or dying as much as its actually now facing serious competition that grows bigger by the day.
Our heyday had us at the top of the pyramid because we were the only show in town, DOTA2 and LoL's esports scene copied our streaming and tournament models and then built on and improved them. It's how competition works and we're seeing the results of that. There's still a lot of opportunities to turn that around and perhaps if not then maybe MLG's withdrawal of SC2 was always going to happen once WCS put its big hands around everything. We'll wait for Blizzcon to see if there's going to be any upside to that.
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Well, I guess that's the final nail in the coffin to not renew my Gold membership, it was set to renew on Nov 6th
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On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.
Missed something?
There is SHOUTcraft NA ? I know it's not much but meh gotta suport as to what you got.
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On August 08 2013 23:00 Sevre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:59 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 22:50 packrat386 wrote:On August 08 2013 22:49 Plansix wrote:
All right folks, I figured it out:
The next MLG Championship event is being held on 22-24 November.
Blizzcon is being held Novermber 8-9, with the championship that weekend. Why hold a SC2 event after the world championship? It seems a little redundant. No SC2 in december? Or will we have a blizz cup or something to hold us over? Did we have SC2 in December last year. I think we had one event. I can deal with an off season and let everyone ramp up. Off seasons are good. Yeah off seasons are good, don't know how we're going to compete with the NFL in the winter.
Pick up in Febuary, right after the Super Bowl and rock out Esports style. We don't need 12 months of straight SC2. Dota 2 doesn't do that and neither does LoL.
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On August 08 2013 23:04 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.
Missed something? There is SHOUTcraft NA ?
There was.
Whether or not there will be another is not something we know as of now.
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Slightly unrelated but while we're here, Blizzard need to get that hype train rolling for Blizzcon soon. Take lessons from TI3 please.
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On August 08 2013 22:56 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:54 TheFish7 wrote:MLG You're dead to me (Hey, that rhymes) On August 08 2013 22:44 turdburgler wrote:On August 08 2013 22:41 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 08 2013 22:40 Crownlol wrote:
Maybe if the SC2 community would stop being so stubborn about team games we could compete better with teamsports. It's just easier to follow teams, and you have more players to root for. Think about it- people will watch whole matches if ONE of the ten players is one of their favorites.
I've been saying this for years now, but there's no reason mapmakers can't make 2v2 viable. Balance would be a big issue. If you think 1v1 balance is tenuous, 2v2 is like a hundred times more complicated. the biggest problem in 2v2 right now is the map pool. no one can coherently argue balance one way or the other when the maps are on the same quality level as WoL release maps. It has gotten better, but there are definitely still vast improvements to be made. I was kinda disappointed we didn't get more good 2v2 maps out of the TLMC#2. We had some decent ones, but very few standard, balanced, solid 2v2 maps. There also aren't many map makers who have team maps on their radar at all. Why would they? hard to have something on your radar that seemingly no one cares about. There has to be a demand before they'll start supplying it.
because they know from their own figures that most people dont like the hyper competitive 1v1 scene. theyve said this before, and they are aware of the advantages of supporting team games etc, they are completely aware of how to better market themselves to people who are currently getting in to LoL and DotA. the problem is that blizzard, like with all things, moves about glacial speeds.
they are probably terrified of any big changes to their product, be it f2p, seperating the product in to single player and multiplayer games, some kind of premium system etc, will lead to a loss of sales of LotV, a product they have had a release target for for a decade already and are banking on sales numbers.
not to get too off topic but dont expect any big shift from blizzard in respect to team games before LotV is already released and sold, then they will have the flexibility to change up the product because they would have no expectations on future profit from it.
not to get too much off topic but if you watch how the development of all the blizzard games go, they consistently refuse to rock the boat when things are going well. perhaps its mean to say they dont care about customers when things are going well, but they certainly resist changing anything while people continue to buy and play. but then when things change around them, they can actually make pretty big shifts quickly. over the past 12 months theyve pretty much tripled staff working on WoW and hired and fired a whole new team for diablo.
On August 08 2013 23:04 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:04 Lysanias wrote:On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.
Missed something? There is SHOUTcraft NA ? There was. Whether or not there will be another is not something we know as of now.
if you look at the figures posted by TB after shoutcraft, the whole thing would be profitable if the prize money was actually in line with the quality of play. the people who competed in that event were massively over paid. and thats not being critical of TB, they needed to put on an event people would care about, and to catch interest for a new brand, but the difference between the cost and the income for that was about 50% of the prize pool.
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On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.
Missed something?
Good time to live in Europe I guess :D
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On August 08 2013 22:22 Rudolph wrote:This sucks. I was actually planning on attending the MLG too. It was going to be the first LAN I would've gone to. 
In the same boat... last MLG Columbus I had a vacation planned like the week before so I wouldn't have had the funds to go. This year I skipped the yearly vacation and was planning on going to MLG. , I am sure MLG will still be great, but now I don't care if I go TT.
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On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.
Missed something?
Ouch.
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It always has to be my city that gets fucked over...
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Well there goes my plans for that weekend..........
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On August 08 2013 23:04 Lysanias wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.
Missed something? There is SHOUTcraft NA ? I know it's not much but meh gotta suport as to what you got.
Shoutcraft NA was a perfect example of just how hard it is to run a region locked NA tournament that people actually give a shit about.
The scene is struggling because there's few local opportunities that fosters new talent, and few tournaments actually want to region lock because very few watch up and coming NA players because the quote unquote "level of play is bad."
Vicious cycle if there ever was one.
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EPT
