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On July 28 2013 23:09 grs wrote:
Because it is not solved with a launcher like Cplay does it.
If there was incentive, Blizzard would find a way to do a develop a program that works in a similar fashion. There is no incentive as Blizzard does not view this as a wide-spread problem, so therefore they are not finding a solution problem.
Not sure what your response had to do with the legality or ladder aspects of it given that was what you quoted. 
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Btw, there very first thing is casters not having and even lying about their delay when they stream cups. This is the biggest, most widespread and undetectable cheat there is. Yet it seems impossible to enforce that 
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What about the upcoming Blizzard Launcher Desktop program then? Could that in some way sniff out wether or not a player is using maphacks or other applications attached to Blizzard's games?
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You can email hack replays to hacks@blizzard.com
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On July 28 2013 23:13 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:00 EtherealDeath wrote:On July 28 2013 22:44 grs wrote:
The basic issue with all the hacks and cheats around is that the client receives all data about the game and just hides it from sight. Therefore the hidden information is still on the computer and there will always be a possibility to reveal it. I don't know if it is possible to have an RTS without sending out all data or if - latency wise - the game would still work serverside, where the server just sends out the information each specific client knows about. I doubt it though. In the end; the cheating will not be stopped. There was a paper recently on exactly that, rts design that would not noticeably affect latency but also allow for it being hack proof, at least on the client side. Probably too late for blizz to implement that though at this point in sc2's life. yep mostly run serverside is quiet possible, but for the not noticeable latency I guess everyone would have to pay 20 euro a month. And it is far from being immune towards cheating. At the end you need good Admins for online tournaments, thats all you can do. Everything else is just a bonus to aid them in their decision.
Was a p2p protocol if i recall correctly
edit - http://crypto.stanford.edu/~dabo/pubs/abstracts/onlinegames.html
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I played vs juicypeach 2 days ago and I felt like his play was really suspicious.
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JuicyPeach = Duran = Fabrauti who is listed in the TL maphacking thread just to clarify.
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i can add to this that i played several times vs imbatoss and always thought that he played weird.
he only scouted when i played proxygates
he has extremely bad micro (not even for a top 20 gm but for top master... and i have like 100 apm tops)
i also casted several games of him in german including the games mentioned by nerchio + a couple more pvz vs players like bly.
his forcefields were again aweful which is why he still often times loses against top players.
against hatch first => 13 forge canrush first position scout on whirlwind
against roach rush 5(!!) cannons at front but not behind wall but really in front (pretty much useless against baneling bust but very effective vs roaches)
against early pool no nexus before motershipcore zealot zealot and sentry with chronoboost +3rd pylon for wall. thats just not a normal opening.
non of this is 100% conclussive but i think if we gather more progamers stating that these players are "obviously" cheating leagues should consider banning them from tournaments... and yes ofc blizzard should find a way to help too...
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remember penguinplug in brood war? what about something like that?
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for definitive proof you need to break in his house when he's not home and take pictures of his maphack on his desktop with your phone, and if there is no map hack found on his pc, make sure to download it on the spot and then take the picture.
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Didn't Blizzard use Warden? I guess it's ineffective as always.
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On July 28 2013 23:09 synd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 23:02 Durmaz21 wrote:
report the player to blizzard. if enough people does that blizzard will take a look at the guy and if given enough evidence, a ban can happen. its probably the only thing that can be done except raise awareness of the player (which this thread does; good job strelok) I don't know dude. To me it seems like the reporting system is just a visual feature but practically it doesn't do anything. I judge by the amount of people that were reported by at least 20+ people and they still maphack/cheat freely even now.
I'm kind of on your side of the fence, but I did also want to mention that there will be an added level of difficulty in screening complains - I've had a lot of reports made against myself on the ladder, and I play legit. Not necessarily for maphacking, more just the guy didn't like that I beat him and made his way into the 'confusing bm' forum for reporting me for winning, but that adds to the confusion. I mean, if someone was maphacking and played 100 games on ladder, how many of those 100 people would get suspicious enough to report? At higher levels, probably a lot more so, but even still, I'd bet that largely more than 50 wouldn't. Contrary, if a bunch of people were trolling on the ladder and know that maphacking is a hot-button topic, and they were to start just falsely reporting people because they were mad/trolling/whatever, how does Blizzard decipher what is and isn't legit?
I'd report anyway, having faith that a multi-billion dollar company has people who work for it that know more about this than I do, but man am I glad I'm not the employee who has to address this issue :/
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ImbaTosS has constantly been accused of hacking/cheating and I do really wonder why CPlay kept sending him out in team leagues and similar things. During our clanwar against CPlay I'd actually chat with CPlays Team Captain Jacko (who does seem to be a reasonable guy imo) and he had to say that he cannot fully defend ImbaTosS from what he has seen. He actually found more suspicious actions that my team did not even catch. Those things were impossible to not be noticed by CPlays management and it was really strange to still see CPlay use Imbatoss against Clarity (which they beat; 2 timess 2-0 by Imbatoss) in EES Qualifiers.
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seems like this is the only thing we can do. Raising awareness and hoping that tournament organizers and Blizzard react in some way :/
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On this matter I have to say though that if you think that someone hacks (be it maphack/prodtabhack or w/e) you'll start seeing things, that you wouldn't even notice when someone else has that same action but does not have the bad reputation of being a hacker.
Also, the games against sgeht were the first 5 matches of imbatoss I've seen out of him. (I actually never heard of him before, I'm not in charge of the player roster, only for certain cw's). And well, after hearing that he's being suspected of being a hacker I also saw things in the replays which could just be completely random. And to be honest, NoN-eSports won 5-2 over sgeht as well so you cant blame one of our players for hacking just because he allkilled sgeht...
Furthermore Imbatoss is starting to stream to prove everyone who suspects him of cheating wrong. Personally I'm influenced by people saying he hacks as I already mentioned, and that makes you see things.
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CS Go has a system called overwatch, selected player can watch anonymous replays and decide if the player is cheating, i think its a very good system, but one problem is that in Starcraft 2 its harder to detect cheats.
Blizzard should try it.
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Legally and technically impractical. Also the assumption, that hacks are developed for ladder only, is not right. There are players using this for money.
What a ridiculous and pompous reply. Legally and techically impractical? I'm a lawyer by my day time profession and I'd like to know what law (and of which country) is being broken if you willingly install a program on your PC that either says 'SC2 verified clean' when a game starts or doesn't? Additionally how is it technically impractical? We're talking about tournaments here, not every single game on ladder.
I've played online for 15-16 years or so and during the original Quakeworld days, this is exactly what the entire European community did. IIRC the program was called QW/faq/z proxy or something to that direction, and what it did was check that none of your game files were modified, since a lot of people were using alternated player models and weapon beam models and such to make targeting easier. If a team wasn't using the program, they were disqualified. I don't remember anyone refusing to use it, in fact anyone not using it was ridiculed to death and labeled automatic cheaters. It works.
We're not allowed to link into hacks here, so I'll just say that currently the Blizzard protection is non-existent. There are entire message boards (you'll find them on google) dedicated to cheating in Blizzard games where people can find threads with download links into hacks, and the topics of discussion are mostly around 'how to not get caught'. For example, they have 'camera lock' buttons, where when you hold the button, you can go look into the enemy's base what he's building, but the camera is locked into your original position so when you view a replay it seems like the maphacker is just looking at his own units instead of the enemy base. When he releases the camera lock button, the game and the replay tracks his camera movement normally again. If every tournament was at a LAN where cheating is virtually impossible we'd have no big problem, but if we have online qualifiers to money leagues something should be done to address this situation.
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ok first of all i have to tell u , that i have a very strange playstyle and my own style , but is that something u can judge me for ? no u cant , and also i am playing everygame the same opening , vs every race a special opening , its my own bo and i am not changing it , 2 zealots and a mothership core vs zerg , 3 stalker opening vs toss , 1gate expand with chrono boost on the stalker vs terran , i am never changing it so u cant tell me i ply other things when my oppnents goes hatch first or pool first , i sometimes go forge opening when i play against opponents like Bly , its not possible to hold his hatch first , gas pool with gate opening so i decided to go for a forge , and what knowme said that i went for 5 canons .. i know when somebody cnaon rush the expand of bly then he goes normally roaches and i also saw the roaches cuz they attacked my canons , so its not unnormal that i go for 5 canons, and also to mention that my micro is not good enough for my top16 gm , thats nothing u can talk about , in a hacker thread , what a joke , u can also be a high level player when ur micro sux ,the game vs nerchio he called me maphacker , cuz i hold his early pool and knew he went for mass speedlings cuz he had no expand what i scouted? is that maphacking? i dont think so , also the games vs strelok like mentioned , i know he is a mech plyer so he won't play bio at any time , so its easy to say when he will go for drops , to know the timings etc. thats important , and when u know ur opponent wel enough than u can hardcounter him ,also i culd bly call "maphacker" or other people cuz they hardcountered me , its a joke to say somebody is maphacking when he just know what his opponent is going for .. and also i will stream the next days and weeks , so there wont be any kind of doubt.
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EPT
