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Interview of David Kim about Balance in IEM - Page 13

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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Lumi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 15:45:54
July 26 2013 15:41 GMT
#241
I wish he would have acknowledged the almost complete lack of swarm hosts in pro games =\ Why are they still excited with their "slow, sieging" unit that has the "zerg feel" (lol.) My biggest issue with the unit is the sheer apm it requires to actually regularly burrow and unburrow and reset the rallies for these units. I feel like it was a huge oversight made by their fixating on some kind of singular entrenched 'contain' push, instead of how the SH is actually used, when it is used. Of course, there are rare instances where it looks like they thought it would.
twitter.com/lumigaming - DongRaeGu is the One True Dong - /r/onetruedong
SsDrKosS
Profile Joined March 2013
330 Posts
July 26 2013 15:46 GMT
#242
buff viper?
BUFF HYDRA PLEASE :D

Seriously, buffing viper is not that necessary at this moment
Unless David meant "buffing" as giving another skill (which I want but most unlikely though)
Current viper hold a good position in the late game, againt bio ball, mechs and collosi.

Swarm host needs some modification NOT to turtle.
Turtle is a strategy but Swarm host turtle is just so bad in PvZ
I saw a lot of casters fastforward replay every time they see SH
BillGates
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
471 Posts
July 26 2013 16:00 GMT
#243
Protoss is so boring to play and play against. Its the worst designed race and needs a complete and utter redesign.

How about removing the Colossus and adding back and reaver?
DRob
Profile Joined May 2012
United States30 Posts
July 26 2013 16:02 GMT
#244
Kim has done a great job with balance over the last few months. Thought his answer were direct while trying to be nice to some of the questions which comes across as making assumptions and conflating opinion and fact.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
AwM
Profile Joined November 2012
United States80 Posts
July 26 2013 16:03 GMT
#245
On July 27 2013 01:00 BillGates wrote:
Protoss is so boring to play and play against. Its the worst designed race and needs a complete and utter redesign.

How about removing the Colossus and adding back and reaver?

Protoss is my favorite to play against as a Zerg. Maybe you're just doing it wrong.
Every time you read this a SCV dies.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25170 Posts
July 26 2013 16:05 GMT
#246
Everything to do with how people want to play the game and for it to function is opinion. The desire to play mech? Well there are other styles that work right? Outside of win rates and empirical data all such demands are based on opinion, even ones based in the 'fundamental rules of RTS'
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
DidYuhim
Profile Joined September 2011
Ukraine1905 Posts
July 26 2013 16:13 GMT
#247
On July 27 2013 01:00 BillGates wrote:
Protoss is so boring to play and play against. Its the worst designed race and needs a complete and utter redesign.

How about removing the Colossus and adding back and reaver?

You see how much whine we have with widow mines?

And now imagine how much whine will have with Reavers.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 26 2013 16:21 GMT
#248
On July 27 2013 01:13 DidYuhim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 01:00 BillGates wrote:
Protoss is so boring to play and play against. Its the worst designed race and needs a complete and utter redesign.

How about removing the Colossus and adding back and reaver?

You see how much whine we have with widow mines?

And now imagine how much whine will have with Reavers.

I love people who ask for the Reaver. I never was super into BW, but even I saw that thing destroy a line of workers in one hit. Do people want to deal with zealots warping in and a reaver dropping down to launch a 100 damage nuke unto your mineral line? Or blobs of 15-20 marines all dying due to a single shot?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
July 26 2013 16:21 GMT
#249
Some of the worst and most biased interview questions I've seen so far.
Get off my lawn, young punks
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
July 26 2013 16:22 GMT
#250
Q: SC2 is a game of "high damage and low defense", namely, the damage output in the game is too high, which makes the big battles only last for a few seconds. Why not slowing down the pace of the game a little bit to improve spectating experience?


lol wtf is up with these questions? this person shouldn't be conducting interviews.
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
July 26 2013 16:24 GMT
#251
On July 27 2013 01:22 hifriend wrote:
Show nested quote +
Q: SC2 is a game of "high damage and low defense", namely, the damage output in the game is too high, which makes the big battles only last for a few seconds. Why not slowing down the pace of the game a little bit to improve spectating experience?


lol wtf is up with these questions? this person shouldn't be conducting interviews.


Whats so wrong with this question?
Imo its a good question, really good
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 16:30:40
July 26 2013 16:24 GMT
#252
Disappointing that his only concern seems to be representations and numbers.
He doesn't actually consider how it feels to play the game or to spectate it, which should be the number 1 concern.
He's satisfied as long as his stats seem to suggest that all three races have an equal winning chance.

Many of these question directly focused on how the game is being played / watched
and that it doesn't seem to be particularly fun.
It seems like he's content about how it's being played and that's all that matters.
I don't understand how he can so simply dismiss the nonexistent factor Mech or Protoss' shitty simple gameplay which can be condensed into "Gimmicky All-In" or "Turtle into 200/200 high-tech units".

wat
DidYuhim
Profile Joined September 2011
Ukraine1905 Posts
July 26 2013 16:26 GMT
#253
On July 27 2013 01:24 Foxxan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 01:22 hifriend wrote:
Q: SC2 is a game of "high damage and low defense", namely, the damage output in the game is too high, which makes the big battles only last for a few seconds. Why not slowing down the pace of the game a little bit to improve spectating experience?


lol wtf is up with these questions? this person shouldn't be conducting interviews.


Whats so wrong with this question?
Imo its a good question, really good

It's a way of being a dick, but not a way of asking the question during the actual interview.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 26 2013 16:26 GMT
#254
On July 27 2013 01:24 Foxxan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 01:22 hifriend wrote:
Q: SC2 is a game of "high damage and low defense", namely, the damage output in the game is too high, which makes the big battles only last for a few seconds. Why not slowing down the pace of the game a little bit to improve spectating experience?


lol wtf is up with these questions? this person shouldn't be conducting interviews.


Whats so wrong with this question?
Imo its a good question, really good

It is a terrible question to ask.

So do you think the game goes to fast? Have you considered changing it from the ground up to make it more fun to watch? That would be easy to do right?

If the answer to the question you are asking is going to be "Fuck, no", its a bad question.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DidYuhim
Profile Joined September 2011
Ukraine1905 Posts
July 26 2013 16:28 GMT
#255
On July 27 2013 01:24 Elefanto wrote:
Disappointing that his only concern seem to be representations and numbers.
He doesn't actually consider how it feels to play the game or to spectate it, which should be the number 1 concern.
He's satisfied as long as his stats seem to suggest that all three races have an equal winning chance.

Many of these question directly focused on how the game is being played / watched
and that it doesn't seem to be particularly fun.
It seems like he's content about how it's being played and that's all that matters.
I don't understand how he can so simply dismiss the nonexistent factor Mech or Protoss' shitty simple gameplay which can be condensed into "Gimmicky All-In" or "Turtle into 200/200 high-tech units".

Blizzard were planning to re-develop Protoss in future, but for it to happen during the HotS it would have to take too much time and the beta was already released. They decided to postpone it to the future expansion.

OR SO I HEARD.
Aiobhill
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany283 Posts
July 26 2013 16:31 GMT
#256
- All this based on the assumption the interview was translated correctly. -

Guy is an effing clown. Blaming the lack of results for one race on the quality of players is the cheapest cop-out ever. And mentioning both recent Dreamhack as if the quality especially of the Terran contenders there bore any resemblance to top-level play is remarkably dumb.

He is also biased as hell, not necessarily race biased but unit biased. "We don't want to nerf the widow mine and medivac." Basically guarantueeing the two most problematic terran units will remain untouched also indicates they will not make mech more viable.

Convinced now this game could be balanced significantly better if they got rid of him and just used heuristics to balance. If in the WCS ranking (top 30, top 60, top 150, whatever) race X was trailing, just buff damage output and health of all units of race X by (arbitrary amount) 0.1%. Keep doing this on a monthly basis till race X is no longer last, then freeze values and start buffing the new weakest race.
Axslav - apm70maphacks - tak3r
Dirtyharry
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Germany171 Posts
July 26 2013 16:33 GMT
#257
On July 27 2013 01:26 DidYuhim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 01:24 Foxxan wrote:
On July 27 2013 01:22 hifriend wrote:
Q: SC2 is a game of "high damage and low defense", namely, the damage output in the game is too high, which makes the big battles only last for a few seconds. Why not slowing down the pace of the game a little bit to improve spectating experience?


lol wtf is up with these questions? this person shouldn't be conducting interviews.


Whats so wrong with this question?
Imo its a good question, really good

It's a way of being a dick, but not a way of asking the question during the actual interview.

But it's still a good question...
I was in Ravenholm
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
July 26 2013 16:34 GMT
#258
On July 27 2013 01:31 Aiobhill wrote:
- All this based on the assumption the interview was translated correctly. -

Guy is an effing clown. Blaming the lack of results for one race on the quality of players is the cheapest cop-out ever. And mentioning both recent Dreamhack as if the quality especially of the Terran contenders there bore any resemblance to top-level play is remarkably dumb.

He is also biased as hell, not necessarily race biased but unit biased. "We don't want to nerf the widow mine and medivac." Basically guarantueeing the two most problematic terran units will remain untouched also indicates they will not make mech more viable.

Convinced now this game could be balanced significantly better if they got rid of him and just used heuristics to balance. If in the WCS ranking (top 30, top 60, top 150, whatever) race X was trailing, just buff damage output and health of all units of race X by (arbitrary amount) 0.1%. Keep doing this on a monthly basis till race X is no longer last, then freeze values and start buffing the new weakest race.

Don't you realize how simplistic and preposterous this would be?
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
July 26 2013 16:35 GMT
#259
These questions were really rude. It wasn't even straight up or "nice, but in your face." These questions were simply really dick-ish. I can't believe Kim would allow himself to be questioned like this.
User was warned for too many mimes.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 26 2013 16:37 GMT
#260
On July 27 2013 01:33 Dirtyharry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 01:26 DidYuhim wrote:
On July 27 2013 01:24 Foxxan wrote:
On July 27 2013 01:22 hifriend wrote:
Q: SC2 is a game of "high damage and low defense", namely, the damage output in the game is too high, which makes the big battles only last for a few seconds. Why not slowing down the pace of the game a little bit to improve spectating experience?


lol wtf is up with these questions? this person shouldn't be conducting interviews.


Whats so wrong with this question?
Imo its a good question, really good

It's a way of being a dick, but not a way of asking the question during the actual interview.

But it's still a good question...

No, its a pretty shitty question. Asking "Why does your game go so fast? Have you thought about slowing it down so its easier to follow?" is not very good.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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