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Interview of David Kim about Balance in IEM

Forum Index > SC2 General
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larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-05 15:09:01
July 26 2013 03:53 GMT
#1
Update 2:

David Kim's balance talk with Chinese Casual Players (Not the same interview with the progamer) [simplified translation]

[image loading]

Q: SC2 is faster than Warcraft3, have you thought about changing game speed?

David Kim: It's hard to weight between causal and pro gamers. We have a speed option, but it seems like no one is using it, even the casual players. Maybe the fast speed like a progamer is why it is attractive to play SC2.

Q: Have you thought about free race every week? Like LoL's free heroes every week.

David Kim: Interesting thought. I can't guarantee anything. I will feedback this advice to the team. We hope that more players support our game. But changing from a singleplayer game to a multiplayer game is not easy.

Q: SC2 is hard for players of other games. How to improve the fun of the game?

David Kim: Our emphasis of fun is on arcade mode and 2v2/3v3/4v4. Not everyone likes 1v1, and not everything players 1v1.

Q: Shouldn't there be some limits of KR players in WCS NA/EU?

David Kim: This is first year of this system, so we don't want too many limitations. We will mostly not make change this year. Next year there may be some changes.

Q: Will SC2 get a ingame stream system like Dota2?

David Kim: We have been improving our observing system. Ingame stream system is great. But it's not the core of our development at the moment.

Q: As a girl, I am thinking whether there will be more female units?

David Kim: ...... this is the area of our art team. In fact, we want more female units.

Q: Will the campaign be about all three races in LotV?

David Kim: Good idea. We may do so in LotV.

Q: Have you thought about putting campaign units into 3v3 and 4v4?

David Kim: Actually, for example, our design team has considered to put lurker into the multiplayer game. We tried many times. But colossus has long range, immortal has anti-armored damage, and Terran has marauder, all of which counter the lurker.

Q: Will there be some rewards for mapmakers?

David Kim: In fact, we are discussing this. But I can't reveal the details.

Q: Any news about Blizzard All-Stars?

David Kim: Haha, you know, coming soon.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Update: Balance talk between David Kim and Chinese progamer Jim and XY.

[image loading]


The balance talk is not very well done by the players and it is quite biased. So I summarize a few important points from David Kim:

1. We won't change balance based on a single region.

2. We are observing the turtle swarm host plus static defense style in ZvP late-game.

3. We won't nerf the medivac because Terran is not strong at the moment. Further nerfing the medivac will make Terran even weaker.

4. If ZvZ continues to be roach vs roach for a very long time, we may make changes in the future.

5. It is true that mech is countered by Zerg. But they are observing carefully, because buffing some units may bring about more problems.

6. When people talk about "balancing by map", they are actually making the argument that some maps favor a specific strategy of a certain race. So on the flip side, the opponent knows what strategy that is, so the opponent can be prepared. So it's balanced in the end.

Source: http://game.163.com/13/0802/10/9592VVA900314QV4.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David Kim's balance interview in IEM Shanghai

This balance interview is done by Chinese media, S.163.com in IEM. I translated the interview while omitting a few useless information.

It is important to note that this is a translation of an oral translation. The interview is done in a media meeting in which David Kim talks in English and the translator translates it into Chinese and the journalist posts it online and now I am translating it into English. So the true meaning can be distorted during the process.

Enjoy.


[image loading]

Q: Many people complain that Zerg is not strong at the moment. But this is an expansion about Zerg. How do you see the balance right now? How do you rate balance at the moment?

David Kim: I don't think there is balance problem right now, and I don't think Zerg is weak at the moment. For example, the recent Dreamhack had a ZvZ finals. Also, WCS S1 Korea Regional Final had a ZvT finals and the Zerg won (Soulkey vs Innovation). In terms of ladder's data, Zerg actually has a little advantage right now.

If I need to rate the balance right now, I will give it a high score----of course, this is not to say that the balance has no problem. We will keep listening to the community's feedback.

Q: I said that Zerg is not strong because widow mine is quite strong and its damage to Zerg units is the most prominent. How about the medivac boost? Now the game is all about medivac boost and drop and has no other strategies.

David Kim: Based on the data in ladder, the winrate between Zerg and Terran are very close. The medivac boost is to give Terran more harassment options. And it produces more entertaining games to some degree.

We don't want to nerf the widow mine and medivac. Rather, it is better to change the Zerg, for example, we can buff some abilities of Zerg.

Q: Have you considered buffing Terran mech?

David Kim: About mech, we are thinking to make it easier to use. In fact, in WOL, TvT had a lot of mech, but in TvP and TvZ mech didn't get used much.

Overall, we are focusing on the strength and weakness of certain units. We don't have a clear plan for mech right now, but it depends on the situation in the future.

Q: Since the launch of SC2 WOL, Protoss hasn't gotten a lot of championships. How do you see this? Is this because of balance?

David Kim: Overall, Protoss's performance is not weak. In a lot of tournament's Ro32, Protoss has a stable and high presence. This is not a problem of SC2. It seems like there are fewer top Protoss players out there, at least fewer than Terran and Zerg. So I think we need to look for more new top Protoss players, and then the situation will change. If the number is getting worse [for Protoss], then we will consider change some Protoss units. In addition, in recent Dreamhack, Stardust won the championship. WCS S1 NA had a lot of Protoss. These numbers make me relaxed.

Q: In my opinion, Protoss is not a stable race. Although it has high damage, it relies heavily on high-tier units and the high costs of them limit the versatility of Protoss in competitive games. Have you considered changing this situation?

David Kim: I think, in WOL, Protoss's strategy choice was too narrow. Basically you only need to turtle up for a big army and then win with one push. But now the situation is different. We add oracle for harassment to improve the harassment ability of Protoss. We also change the warp prism's speed. These give more choices for Protoss players. I hope we can see more competitive games.

If we find that these aspects of Protoss don't change in the future, then we may make alterations again. But now there is no need to do that.

Q: SC2 is a game of "high damage and low defense", namely, the damage output in the game is too high, which makes the big battles only last for a few seconds. Why not slowing down the pace of the game a little bit to improve spectating experience?

David Kim: If we make this change right now, then it is too big of a change. Players have gotten used to the current mode. But we can improve the length of the game. Especially in TvZ, there are a lot of back and forth. This is because the healing ability of medivac and the production capacity of Zerg. So the game lasts longer.

Q: What is the most successful units in HOTS so far?

David Kim: Hydra now has speed upgrade. Ultra is a great threat to enemy right now. Muta makes harassment more effective.

About new units, Swarm host now has two diverse strategies. One is offensive strategy that utilizes its siege capability to contain the opponent. The other is the turtle strategy which uses swarm host to hold until 200 supply and then push out. Now we are looking. If the latter strategy becomes the norm, we will make changes accordingly. About viper, our original intention is to give Zerg players more choices, but now many players know how to counter it, so we are thinking how to do something about it.


------------------------------------------------------------------------


The following is another article in which David Kim talks about all the new units (because HOTS just releases in China). There are some valuable information in it.

[image loading]

Widow mine

David Kim: This units is made for players with good micro. It a micro unit for both sides. Now it seems like it is a good unit and its damage [pattern] makes the game more entertaining.

At first when we designed the unit, it is a unit that can shoot a missile to any place in the map!

Hellbat

David Kim: The original purpose of hellbat is to counter zealot. Later, we buff its capability and make it more useful in other situations, for example to provide a support to siege tank.

Viper

David Kim: When designing Viper, because Protoss and Terran got some strong siege units, so we don't want to give Zerg another siege unit beside swarm host. So we designed viper to break the siege. But currently, Viper is not strong, we are planning to make some changes to it.

When talking about the Chinese players, David Kim said he likes Jim

End

Source:
http://s.163.com/13/0725/14/94KU94Q600314Q8K.html
http://s.163.com/13/0726/08/94MS5L5400314Q8T.html
Daogin
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada2308 Posts
July 26 2013 03:56 GMT
#2
Interesting questions and very straight-up I'm liking the answers as well, except for the protoss they seem to be getting shit on
Leenoctopus <3, master of foreign events.
Pheon
Profile Joined March 2013
Canada13 Posts
July 26 2013 03:57 GMT
#3
I don't know if making 'matter of fact' statements in the questions are so appropriate, but good interview nonetheless.
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
July 26 2013 03:59 GMT
#4
wow nice with interview

little dissapointed with his answers sofar, they seem to go for statistic balance ALOT!!!?? which i dislike
Kim Hyuna
Profile Joined March 2013
Korea (South)264 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 04:02:48
July 26 2013 04:00 GMT
#5
David Kim is an idiot.

David Kim: Overall, Protoss is not weak. In a lot of Ro32, Protoss has a stable and high presence. This is not a problem of SC2. It seems like there are fewer top Protoss players out there, at least fewer than Terran and Zerg. So I think we need to look for more new top Protoss players, and then the situation will change. If the number is getting worse [for Protoss], then we will consider change some Protoss units. In addition, in Dreamhack, Stardust got the championship. WCS S1 NA had a lot of Protoss. These numbers make me relaxed.


We already seen TOP protoss players playing inside KR. And almost zero success in taking one major title here in KR.

Isn't (P)PartinG, (P)Rain, (P)First, (P)MC etc top Protoss players? I don't see any NEW upcoming top protoss coming near.

And, Stardust is playing against Foreigner and not TOP Z/T players from KR. And his win against JD is nothing HUGE because JD is known for his weakness in PvZ. What an idiot again.

David Kim: I think, in WOL, Protoss's strategy was too narrowed. Basically you only need to turtle up for a big army and then win with one push. But now the situation is different. We add oracle for harassment and change the warp prism's speed. These give more choices for Protoss players. I hope we can see more competitive games.


Isn't that what Protossers has been doing? It's either turtle up for one fucking push or 2 base all in. Oracle? It's a shit unit.

Obviously he hates Protoss since WOL days.
김현아 fighting!
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
July 26 2013 04:02 GMT
#6
On July 26 2013 13:00 Kim Hyuna wrote:
David Kim is an idiot.

Show nested quote +
David Kim: Overall, Protoss is not weak. In a lot of Ro32, Protoss has a stable and high presence. This is not a problem of SC2. It seems like there are fewer top Protoss players out there, at least fewer than Terran and Zerg. So I think we need to look for more new top Protoss players, and then the situation will change. If the number is getting worse [for Protoss], then we will consider change some Protoss units. In addition, in Dreamhack, Stardust got the championship. WCS S1 NA had a lot of Protoss. These numbers make me relaxed.


We already seen TOP protoss players playing inside KR. And almost zero success in taking one major title here in KR.

And, Stardust is playing against Foreigner and not TOP Z/T players from KR. And his win against JD is nothing HUGE because JD is known for his weakness in PvZ. What an idiot again.

Show nested quote +
David Kim: I think, in WOL, Protoss's strategy was too narrowed. Basically you only need to turtle up for a big army and then win with one push. But now the situation is different. We add oracle for harassment and change the warp prism's speed. These give more choices for Protoss players. I hope we can see more competitive games.


Isn't that what Protossers has been doing? It's either turtle up for one fucking push or 2 base all in. Oracle? It's a shit unit.

Obviously he hates Protoss since WOL days.


Yes i dunno what he is talking about, thats excaclty how protoss play now
Its their COREplay
I dunno man
Kim Hyuna
Profile Joined March 2013
Korea (South)264 Posts
July 26 2013 04:05 GMT
#7
David Kim till date still don't address the low cost of Roaches which dealt so much damage in mass.

And still NO stalkers buff since WOL days. Seriously? Not whining about balance but what the fuck? All his comments doesn't make sense. And buffing VIPER which already so strong against P which makes making colos pretty useless.

김현아 fighting!
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4400 Posts
July 26 2013 04:08 GMT
#8
Proleague is either the highest skilled tournament or a very close second to WCS KR currently and it is heavily dominated by Protoss. They are fine.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 26 2013 04:11 GMT
#9
On July 26 2013 13:05 Kim Hyuna wrote:
David Kim till date still don't address the low cost of Roaches which dealt so much damage in mass.

And still NO stalkers buff since WOL days. Seriously? Not whining about balance but what the fuck? All his comments doesn't make sense. And buffing VIPER which already so strong against P which makes making colos pretty useless.



Err you realize the counter to viper is templar right? Like it's not that hard to feedback a viper before it abducts colossi .

I am curious how they will buff the viper without making it broken as shit lol.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Backlash123
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada57 Posts
July 26 2013 04:11 GMT
#10
I'm assuming that buff to the viper is never going to happen? I thought the general consensus in the community was that vipers were TOO strong. Maybe I'm wrong though. (Btw I play Zerg and not balance whining.)
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
July 26 2013 04:12 GMT
#11
Q: I said that Zerg is not strong because widow mine is quite strong and its damage to Zerg units is the most prominent. How about the medivac boost? Now the game is all about medivac boost and drop and has no other strategies.

This reporter's race is Zerg and he got owned hard on ladder in ZvT ?
@taefoxy
Poo
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 04:13:21
July 26 2013 04:13 GMT
#12
On July 26 2013 12:53 larse wrote:
This balance interview is done by Chinese media, S.163.com in IEM. I am translating this very fast right now. I will edit the grammar and such later on. Enjoy.

[image loading]

.

About new units, Swarm host. About viper, we are considering to buff it.


what. why?
He just started the interview off saying zerg has an advantage statistically already.
Try hard or don't try at all.
captainwaffles
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1050 Posts
July 26 2013 04:13 GMT
#13
I find it strange and dissapointing they have no clear plans for mech... all the units in this expansion for Terran were mech units and hes like...yeah whatever we don't really care about mech...wtf?
https://x.com/CaptainWaffless
Nerevar
Profile Joined January 2013
547 Posts
July 26 2013 04:14 GMT
#14
On July 26 2013 13:11 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 13:05 Kim Hyuna wrote:
David Kim till date still don't address the low cost of Roaches which dealt so much damage in mass.

And still NO stalkers buff since WOL days. Seriously? Not whining about balance but what the fuck? All his comments doesn't make sense. And buffing VIPER which already so strong against P which makes making colos pretty useless.



Err you realize the counter to viper is templar right? Like it's not that hard to feedback a viper before it abducts colossi .

I am curious how they will buff the viper without making it broken as shit lol.

Perhaps a change to Blinding Cloud? I think Abduct and the rest of the unit is fine. I don't see as much good use of Blinding Cloud as I do of Abduct.

But I really want to see more Tank use overall. Vipers and buffed Mutas discourage them a lot in TvZ.
Holdenintherye
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada1441 Posts
July 26 2013 04:14 GMT
#15
Viper buff? So less energy for abducts or something?
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
July 26 2013 04:16 GMT
#16
On July 26 2013 13:13 captainwaffles wrote:
I find it strange and dissapointing they have no clear plans for mech... all the units in this expansion for Terran were mech units and hes like...yeah whatever we don't really care about mech...wtf?

he didn't say ' don't care ' word, but " have no idea what to do with mech ' lmao. No hope for mech
@taefoxy
Foxxan
Profile Joined October 2004
Sweden3427 Posts
July 26 2013 04:18 GMT
#17
David Kim: If we make this change right now, then it is too big of change. And players have used to the current mode. But we can improve the length of the game. Especially in TvZ, there are a lot of back and forth. This is because the healing ability of medivac and the production capacity of Zerg. So the game lasts longer.


To someone with good knowledge/intelligence, is this acttually right what he says?
Or has it not more to do with zergs and terrans units? Or in other words, the races designs compared to protoss??
_Search_
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada180 Posts
July 26 2013 04:19 GMT
#18
Interesting but light interview. I wonder why he feels that Zerg has an advantage on ladder, especially with the current ladder map pool.

There is no doubt that Zerg is currently in one of the biggest slumps in tournament play that any race has seen in Starcraft 2 history. There are few ways that Zerg could have performed worse in this current season of WCS 2. It is disheartening to hear the lead balance designer give such bogus results such as Dreamhack ending in a ZvZ finals (basically only Zergs entered...) or WCS KR 1 being won by a Zerg (He did the exact same all-in 5 times, and now its been so figured out that Innovation easily crushes Soulkey). Kim's judgment has always been far from stellar and this is no exception.

Most Blizzard balance discussions rarely amount to more than Kim, et al sticking their fingers in their ears and singing LA LA LA LA.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
July 26 2013 04:22 GMT
#19
On July 26 2013 12:53 larse wrote:

Q: What is the most successful units in HOTS so far?

David Kim: Hydra now has speed upgrade.



Is this a joke?
PDizzle
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark1754 Posts
July 26 2013 04:23 GMT
#20
In terms of ladder's data, Zerg actually has a little advantage right now.


lol
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