This is a translation of a Daily e-Sports article on Jaedong's future regarding his lease to EG and possible return to Team 8. The lease term runs out in November 2013. The article seems to say that Jaedong has the option of extending his lease to EG, returning to Team 8, or even trying to go to a different team. He will be able to start negotiations in August.
As Team 8 receives sponsorship from JinAir, they are also looking into the future of Lee Jae-Dong, who was leased to foreign team EG (Evil Geniuses).
Lee Jae-Dong is currently on loan from Team 8 to EG. His term is set to expire at the end of November 2013. At that time, if EG does not extend the contract, he will automatically return to Team 8. His future plans afterward will depend on his own desires, and are independent of Team 8's new sponsorship agreement.
Seo Hyong-Seok, an official at the Korean e-Sports Association, which is overseeing Lee Jae-Dong's lease, said, "Regarding Lee Jae-Dong's lease term with EG, if the contract is not extended, he will return to Team 8 at the end of November".
However, starting at the end of August, Lee Jae-Dong will be able to start talks with KESPA over his desires regarding his lease to EG and possible return to Team 8. If he wishes to go to another team instead of Team 8 after his lease, he must negotiate with KESPA over these those three months. Alternatively, if EG wishes to extend the lease and he agrees, there is the possibility that he will remain with EG.
When JinAir took ownership of Team 8, they did not mandate that Lee Jae-Dong be forced to return to the team. Therefore, he can choose to stay with EG, return to Team 8, or try for a different team.
KESPA deputy Seo Hyong-Seok said, "Lee Jae-Dong will stay with EG until the end of November, after which he will be transferred to KESPA, which oversees Team 8," but, "The recent sponsorship agreement does not restrict his opportunities, and he is free to choose his path as he desires."
Hm I don't see EG letting go of Jaedong. He has had great tournament results in the lans he went to (semi finals dreamhack, finals dreamhack, top 8 MLG, won the kingston hyperX tournament) and is also in premier league for wcs america.
If he isn't resigned to EG I will be shocked xD. Either way as long as he still goes to all the major tournaments (dreamhack/mlg I guess are only ones now) then I don't care what team he is on, although I like watching his stream to...
On July 13 2013 07:45 Bagi wrote: He sure gets a lot of publicity for a mid-tier player.
Mid-ter?
Damn if this is considered mid-tier: semi finals dreamhack, finals dreamhack, top 8 MLG, and qualifying for WCS premier league (these are his results since the first dreamhack).
Then you must think everyone is a mid-tier player other then the select few players like innovation/soulkey and maybe a few more.
He may not be the best player right now, or may have had the most impressive transition, but what really impressed me is that he has continously improved ever since transitioning. Slowly but steadily. I hope he stays with EG and that EGTL will stay with ProLeague, but either way I'm glad he is with SC2 <3
On July 13 2013 07:45 Bagi wrote: He sure gets a lot of publicity for a mid-tier player.
Mid-ter?
Damn if this is considered mid-tier: semi finals dreamhack, finals dreamhack, top 8 MLG, and qualifying for WCS premier league (these are his results since the first dreamhack).
Then you must think everyone is a mid-tier player other then the select few players like innovation/soulkey and maybe a few more.
He gets those results because hes at every event and playing against foreigners.
I'm comparing him against the Korean playerbase, among them I don't think he is that impressive. He would not be in the RO32 of OSL had he stayed in Korean WCS for example.
Jaedong seems pretty set on staying on EG for the long-run. He has shown good results overall in DreamHack and other tournaments and must be content with the financial incentives that EG provides.
On July 13 2013 07:28 tshi wrote: I hope JD stays on EG! Also, I'm hoping STX disbands so EG could pick up Innovation! They need more terrans!
Oh dear god
I like EG, love Jaedong, like Innovation.. but I agree. There are people you just don't fuck with their groove, and Innovation is one of them. It's along the same lines of men ot being happy Flash is going to stream.
I feel like he'll probably end up staying with EG. It seems to be a better fit than Green Wings was and he seems to have friends in EG and be enjoying himself / performing better. KeSPa sure as hell look like they'll fight for him though.
I like JD on EG, since EG brings their koreans to almost all big international tournaments, JD's been often the only/one of very few big-name korean to attend several tournaments (for example, MLG Spring, Dreamhack Valencia and Stockholm).
As long in EG remains in proleague I don't mind Jaedong staying with EG, but if they pull out and keep Jaedong as well...just feels like a travesty to have Proleague without JD.
There is no way Jaedong doesn't stay with EG. EG can afford him after dropping Idra, losing Stephano and maybe losing HuK, so it's not lack of money on EG's part. And why strain Team 8 with a Jaedong level salary? They just became "Green Wings" or whatever the fuck they're called now, no need to stress them with a huge salary like Jaedong requires.
Also, I love how KESPA is still trying to stress that Jaedong is still Team 8/KESPA and not an EG player. Like that will change anyone else's minds.
On July 13 2013 07:28 tshi wrote: I hope JD stays on EG! Also, I'm hoping STX disbands so EG could pick up Innovation! They need more terrans!
I like all of the other comments quoting you, hope that STX Soul survives and wish for Jaedong to join them in November or December to spite you now. >:D
On July 13 2013 08:18 iyasq8 wrote: wow didnt think EG would even think of renewing his contract. am not saying hes bad, but hes costing them a lot compared to his results.
On July 13 2013 08:18 iyasq8 wrote: wow didnt think EG would even think of renewing his contract. am not saying hes bad, but hes costing them a lot compared to his results.
You mean better than the rest of the team?
True story. JD might become the evolution of Stephano in WOL if he played his JvP up to a top-class level. I can't rmb how many times he got knocked out by Protosses in foreign events.
On July 13 2013 08:18 iyasq8 wrote: wow didnt think EG would even think of renewing his contract. am not saying hes bad, but hes costing them a lot compared to his results.
You mean better than the rest of the team?
True story. JD might become the evolution of Stephano in WOL if he played his JvP up to a top-class level. I can't rmb how many times he got knocked out by Protosses in foreign events.
Unless I am mistaken it was only naniwa . Don't think any other foreign tosses have beaten him that I am aware of.
I thought we already cleared up that JD is not truly "on lease" and that he got flat out hired by EG. Everything in this article suggests that is true and that in the typical Korean "saving face" fashion they are throwing "lease" around to try to pretend like Team 8 (Green Wings) has any say in the matter.
I hope he joins a real team with a serious practice environment. I want to see him do really well. But SC2 is so volatile. I don't see anyone doing super well for more than a few weeks or months at a time.
On July 13 2013 19:40 Arceus wrote: whenever he goes, goes play in Korea. JD aint going nowhere by attending WCS NA
Playing in WCS NA and generally playing in Korea are two different things, just like MVP is still practicing and honing his skills in Korea, whilst owning up WCS EU. It's just that getting into the WCS KR proper, from the bottom, is very hard to do, and takes time. If MVP had stayed and tried to crack WCS KR, he would've lost out on prize money, entry to season finals, and perhaps the grand finals. It's just not worth it. And you clearly saw that his skills weren't affected by playing in a 'lesser' region from the season 1 finals. As long JD stays in korea and continues to train there with the best that the scene has to offer, it doesn't really matter which WCS region he chooses to participate in. In fact, I'd rather see him take the 'easier' option and see him in season/grand finals rather than crash out in the up/downs of WCS KR.
On July 13 2013 20:22 mongmong wrote: Whats the point going back to GW? they're not gonna send him to foreign tourneys as much as EG does.
Better team. Cooler team. Awesome uniforms.
Helps GW become a legitimate contender and then leads them to an undefeated season of PL where they annihilate every single team 4-0 except for the finals which is a 4-3 win, a 4-3 loss, and then an epic, come from behind reverse all kill 3-3 to ace match where Jaedong defeats Flash in a 97 minute macro game featuring every single possible unit combination with over 99 separate troop engagements and is finally won after a ten minute super engagement where Flash ends up nuking all of Jaedongs army with his second to last unit (a ghost) and only one crack-ling survives the nuke and takes down a supply depot (Flash's last building) at the exact moment that Flash's last unit (a stimmed marine) has Jaedong's last building (an extractor) down to 1 health.
That eventuality is good for e-sports so if you want Jaedong to not be on Green Wings than you hate e-sports and you hate epic TvZ. QED.
On July 13 2013 20:22 mongmong wrote: Whats the point going back to GW? they're not gonna send him to foreign tourneys as much as EG does.
Better team. Cooler team. Awesome uniforms.
Helps GW become a legitimate contender and then leads them to an undefeated season of PL where they annihilate every single team 4-0 except for the finals which is a 4-3 win, a 4-3 loss, and then an epic, come from behind reverse all kill 3-3 to ace match where Jaedong defeats Flash in a 97 minute macro game featuring every single possible unit combination with over 99 separate troop engagements and is finally won after a ten minute super engagement where Flash ends up nuking all of Jaedongs army with his second to last unit (a ghost) and only one crack-ling survives the nuke and takes down a supply depot (Flash's last building) at the exact moment that Flash's last unit (a stimmed marine) has Jaedong's last building (an extractor) down to 1 health.
That eventuality is good for e-sports so if you want Jaedong to not be on Green Wings than you hate e-sports and you hate epic TvZ. QED.
Can't argue with the logic. I wonder if I can work out how likely this is.
I hope he goes back to Team 8. Besides, he probably was just scared of T8 dying back then and wanted to jump off a sinking ship early. He's still one of PL's most important faces they shouldn't lose.
On July 13 2013 07:49 ACrow wrote: He may not be the best player right now, or may have had the most impressive transition, but what really impressed me is that he has continously improved ever since transitioning. Slowly but steadily. I hope he stays with EG and that EGTL will stay with ProLeague, but either way I'm glad he is with SC2 <3
The zvz and zvt's ive seen from him were pretty impressive. Just feel like a lacking zvp is holding him back abit. I feel like he really has a decent shot at a top finish in the big leagues if he could just improve his zvp.
On July 13 2013 07:28 tshi wrote: I hope JD stays on EG! Also, I'm hoping STX disbands so EG could pick up Innovation! They need more terrans!
And I hope the worst for you. I'd write something else but I'm afraid of TL mods moderating it out. How can you possibly hope for a team to disband? You are a horrible person, did you think about their fans etc.? What if some of their players will have nowhere to go and they won't be picked up? STX is not just Bogus...
This is could be a pretty hard decision in my eyes. He has good reason to go with either team(or potentially a different team altogether). I think it all depends what his priorities are right now. I'm leaning more towards him staying with EG, because of the extensive foreign travel they provide for him.
I'm hoping that EGTL continues to play in Proleague AND that EG keeps Jaedong. Though if he ends up going somewhere else, there's no way I'm not going to keep following his games and cheering for him
On July 13 2013 07:52 StarStruck wrote: I don't see why EG wouldn't want to keep him.
lol, of course EG wants to keep him. The question is if he wants to stay with EG.
Yeah this may come as a shocker for many people, but with Stephano soon out of the picture, Jaedong is pretty much EG's best performing player at the moment.
Mmmmm too those people saying dongs vp sucks....it does. But dont fret! This just like BW, soon that light switch will flip and he will reclaim his overmind throne from these cheap dong imitations.
On July 13 2013 07:52 StarStruck wrote: I don't see why EG wouldn't want to keep him.
lol, of course EG wants to keep him. The question is if he wants to stay with EG.
Yeah this may come as a shocker for many people, but with Stephano soon out of the picture, Jaedong is pretty much EG's best performing player at the moment.
Doesn't shock me and for the other guy I'm pretty sure Alex would make it worth his while to stick around even if JD doesn't solve his Protoss woes but something tells me it won't be long before that turns around.
On July 13 2013 20:22 mongmong wrote: Whats the point going back to GW? they're not gonna send him to foreign tourneys as much as EG does.
Better team. Cooler team. Awesome uniforms.
Helps GW become a legitimate contender and then leads them to an undefeated season of PL where they annihilate every single team 4-0 except for the finals which is a 4-3 win, a 4-3 loss, and then an epic, come from behind reverse all kill 3-3 to ace match where Jaedong defeats Flash in a 97 minute macro game featuring every single possible unit combination with over 99 separate troop engagements and is finally won after a ten minute super engagement where Flash ends up nuking all of Jaedongs army with his second to last unit (a ghost) and only one crack-ling survives the nuke and takes down a supply depot (Flash's last building) at the exact moment that Flash's last unit (a stimmed marine) has Jaedong's last building (an extractor) down to 1 health.
That eventuality is good for e-sports so if you want Jaedong to not be on Green Wings than you hate e-sports and you hate epic TvZ. QED.
I have to say, you good sir got it all AND you are able to choose the right nickname - hat's off to you! (and thank you for the big grin on my face after reading your post)
On July 13 2013 20:22 mongmong wrote: Whats the point going back to GW? they're not gonna send him to foreign tourneys as much as EG does.
Better team. Cooler team. Awesome uniforms.
Helps GW become a legitimate contender and then leads them to an undefeated season of PL where they annihilate every single team 4-0 except for the finals which is a 4-3 win, a 4-3 loss, and then an epic, come from behind reverse all kill 3-3 to ace match where Jaedong defeats Flash in a 97 minute macro game featuring every single possible unit combination with over 99 separate troop engagements and is finally won after a ten minute super engagement where Flash ends up nuking all of Jaedongs army with his second to last unit (a ghost) and only one crack-ling survives the nuke and takes down a supply depot (Flash's last building) at the exact moment that Flash's last unit (a stimmed marine) has Jaedong's last building (an extractor) down to 1 health.
That eventuality is good for e-sports so if you want Jaedong to not be on Green Wings than you hate e-sports and you hate epic TvZ. QED.
wow .. did that happen ? can i see the link of flash vs JD game
Haha, lease bad Jaedong to EG, get back great Jaedong. Good business decisions so far for Team 8.
But I have a feeling that Jaedong finally feels good at EG, and he´ll get much more exposure there. Also he´s older and more experienced and thus less prone to sticking fearful to what he knows. Flash used to say he would like to be on a foreign team as well and play foreign tournaments. So that might be a deciding factor for him to stay.
On July 13 2013 08:38 Holdenintherye wrote: If EGTL doesn't stay in Proleague, I don't think JD's contract will be worth renewing.
Once again I question the logic behind such statements.
Its information from the show Inside the game with EG incontrol, Suppy and THorzain. He stated that EG might not consider entering Proleague again, since the ROI apparently doesn't pay off for them.
I kinda feel the same as other people stated : If EGTL goes into another season of PL i would love it if they keep Jaedong, If they aren't I'd prefer them to not renew the contract for Jaedongs sake. :o
On July 13 2013 08:38 Holdenintherye wrote: If EGTL doesn't stay in Proleague, I don't think JD's contract will be worth renewing.
Once again I question the logic behind such statements.
Its information from the show Inside the game with EG incontrol, Suppy and THorzain. He stated that EG might not consider entering Proleague again, since the ROI apparently doesn't pay off for them.
I kinda feel the same as other people stated : If EGTL goes into another season of PL i would love it if they keep Jaedong, If they aren't I'd prefer them to not renew the contract for Jaedongs sake. :o
Oh I'm well aware of the possibility that they not participate in ProLeague next season.
But like I mentioned previously, Jaedong is pretty much EG's best performing player at the moment, and with Stephano retiring, I really don't see why they'd also consider letting JD go. He's marketable (much moreso than JYP, Revival, aLive, Oz), has a massive legacy and significant fanbase, and is one of the best if not the best EG player at the moment. ProLeague or not, it seems rather foolish to drop him.
There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I haven't looked at the WCS schedule, but where does November fall within their seasons? I doubt JD stays in the WCS America if he's going to go back to GW or another Kespa team. Seems like it'll be clear well before November what is going to happen with JD.
If EG-TL aren't doing PL it might not be the best decision for him to stay. On the other hand its cool as hell seeing him at foreign tournaments. I even got to talk to him for a good three seconds at DH. It was the best.
Hmm, I want him to stay in EG since he's already one of the best players other than his ZvP. Of course if he feels he can improve else where, then I'll respect his choice and still root for him.
On July 14 2013 00:33 dinosrwar wrote: JD should go back to GW and train his JvP against Jaehoon to improve and become a super Ace again. He doesn't have any good P practice partners on EG.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
he even beat innovation in spl recently .. and it was a one sided stomp though it wasnt a full macro game its still a win and it counts .. didnt see any of his zvz but from what i heard its more or less like what his zvz in BW was
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Being mid tier doesn't mean he's bad. It means he's...mid tier...
When you consider that he didn't fare too well in WCS America and that there are an absolutely huge number of excellent Zergs in Korea, calling Jaedong mid tier is not an insult at all. You have to be good to be mid tier in a pack of players that includes all the KeSPA and esF Zergs.
His ZvZ is incredibly good, one of the best in the world, but his ZvP is really bad (like really, really bad). His ZvT is really good, but I wouldn't say it's as good as his ZvZ, nor would I say it's the best in the world, particularly given his overall winrates in the matchup and the quality of his opponents lately (he's got pretty weak ZvT/ZvP winrates in Proleague, although the game counts are low, but he did drop 0-2 to theognis (a good player, by all means, but certainly not a Korea Code S quality Terran) and narrowly overcame Drunkenboi in his Challenger group. To me, that doesn't scream amazing ZvT.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
This depends on how much money Jin Air has/how badly they want Jaedong. I'm sure Jaedong is happy on EG, and I'm sure he likes his teammates and the international traveling, but it'll probably come down to if Jin Air wants Jaedong as the face of their SC2 franchise. They'll probably need to open up the check book to get JD back.
JD over the last few months has been improving at a massive rate. Once he works out his weaknesses v Protoss he will be a top three Zerg capable of winning any tournament he enters. I think pro league could be a big factor in his future decision to stay with EG. Here's hoping EG-TL do another season.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
Why are people getting pissy about the word mid-tier? Mid-tier doesn't mean your terrible lmao. What the heck you think I call HerO, Stephano and JYP? Middle of the roaders when it comes to PL and that should be a good thing. If you win fifty percent of your matches in PL it means you belong and are capable of doing work. It means your built for PL. The major beef people have with Jaedong is his ZvP and judging by his overall stats from this season's PL including all match-ups. There's a whole lot he can work on. Heck, he barely cracks the top 20 and surely he'll improve upon it. If there's anything of interest when it comes to Jaedong it's his work ethic and his brand recognition. Jaedong is still a player you can build a franchise around.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
Why are people getting pissy about the word mid-tier? Mid-tier doesn't mean your terrible lmao. What the heck you think I call HerO, Stephano and JYP? Middle of the roaders when it comes to PL and that should be a good thing. If you win fifty percent of your matches in PL it means you belong and are capable of doing work. It means your built for PL. The major beef people have with Jaedong is his ZvP and judging by his overall stats from this season's PL including all match-ups. There's a whole lot he can work on. Heck, he barely cracks the top 20 and surely he'll improve upon it. If there's anything of interest when it comes to Jaedong it's his work ethic and his brand recognition. Jaedong is still a player you can build a franchise around.
It's because jaedong isn't mid-tier. If placing semi finals, finals and top 8 in 3 major events in a row is considered mid tier then what do you consider not mid tier? I mean his proleague stats aren't good, but I would place his 3 good results in major lans over a crappy proleague season (for jaedongs standards this wasn't a good season for him).
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
Why are people getting pissy about the word mid-tier? Mid-tier doesn't mean your terrible lmao. What the heck you think I call HerO, Stephano and JYP? Middle of the roaders when it comes to PL and that should be a good thing. If you win fifty percent of your matches in PL it means you belong and are capable of doing work. It means your built for PL. The major beef people have with Jaedong is his ZvP and judging by his overall stats from this season's PL including all match-ups. There's a whole lot he can work on. Heck, he barely cracks the top 20 and surely he'll improve upon it. If there's anything of interest when it comes to Jaedong it's his work ethic and his brand recognition. Jaedong is still a player you can build a franchise around.
What you're saying would make sense, if ProLeague were the only tournament that these players have participated in.
On July 14 2013 00:33 dinosrwar wrote: JD should go back to GW and train his JvP against Jaehoon to improve and become a super Ace again. He doesn't have any good P practice partners on EG.
He lives right next to Hero and Oz who are at the same level as Jaehoon.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
Why are people getting pissy about the word mid-tier? Mid-tier doesn't mean your terrible lmao. What the heck you think I call HerO, Stephano and JYP? Middle of the roaders when it comes to PL and that should be a good thing. If you win fifty percent of your matches in PL it means you belong and are capable of doing work. It means your built for PL. The major beef people have with Jaedong is his ZvP and judging by his overall stats from this season's PL including all match-ups. There's a whole lot he can work on. Heck, he barely cracks the top 20 and surely he'll improve upon it. If there's anything of interest when it comes to Jaedong it's his work ethic and his brand recognition. Jaedong is still a player you can build a franchise around.
It's because jaedong isn't mid-tier. If placing semi finals, finals and top 8 in 3 major events in a row is considered mid tier then what do you consider not mid tier? I mean his proleague stats aren't good, but I would place his 3 good results in major lans over a crappy proleague season (for jaedongs standards this wasn't a good season for him).
Because you have to look at tournament results in context. I mean I'm not saying JD is bad, but hyping up his finishes so much isn't really fair. In MLG, he played against pure foreigners, lost to Dear, beat Stats (notable victory) and lost to Naniwa. This is not what I'd call some super impressive run. In DH Stockholm, he beat Gumiho, I think Oz (maybe Coca too?), and then lost to Naniwa after taking out mostly foreigners otherwise. Of all of these, only Gumiho is a truly top tier player, and while his result is definitely notable, it's just one series. In DH Summer, he beat a lot of good foreigners in the group stages, Gumiho, lost 1-2 to Sting, then took out Stephano, Lucifron, and Taeja(!) before losing narrowly to Stardust. This is obviously JD's best result, but I don't think it's "top-player-in-the-world" result.
The fact is that a lot of the tournaments JD placed well in were light on top level Korean players, and of the ones who were there, most of them didn't seem to play JD until quite late into the tournament (except poor Gumiho). Again, JD is not bad. He's good. Really good, even. But he's not anywhere near Soulkey or Innovation or any of the three interchangeable best Protoss players who seem to rotate every few weeks. He's a solid Zerg with a really good ZvZ. He would have an alright chance of making it into WCS Korea, but it would be far from a sure thing and he could easily bomb out of Korea Challenger league on the weakness of his ZvP.
On July 14 2013 02:05 iNcontroL wrote: There is still time before we enter talks with him on these things but I can tell you we are about as happy as you can possibly be with a player. He is an absolute fucking pro to work with and it boggles my mind reading some people calling him "bad" or "mid tier" etc.. I know we are supposed to ignore those people but WOW.. lol.
Anyways, I will obviously bleed out myself for a blood ritual trying to enchant all the powers that be in trying to keep him. He is amazing. Hope we can.. we will see!
I feel you, the amount of stupidity people are by saying he's bad and mid tier blows my mind. He's not even having bad results and even though his zvp needs work his zvt and zvz are amazing. But I guess if you place semi finals, finals and ro8 in 3 major events in a row you are considered mid tier :/.
Obviously if you don't win every tournament you participate in, you're terrible... -_-
Why are people getting pissy about the word mid-tier? Mid-tier doesn't mean your terrible lmao. What the heck you think I call HerO, Stephano and JYP? Middle of the roaders when it comes to PL and that should be a good thing. If you win fifty percent of your matches in PL it means you belong and are capable of doing work. It means your built for PL. The major beef people have with Jaedong is his ZvP and judging by his overall stats from this season's PL including all match-ups. There's a whole lot he can work on. Heck, he barely cracks the top 20 and surely he'll improve upon it. If there's anything of interest when it comes to Jaedong it's his work ethic and his brand recognition. Jaedong is still a player you can build a franchise around.
It's because jaedong isn't mid-tier. If placing semi finals, finals and top 8 in 3 major events in a row is considered mid tier then what do you consider not mid tier? I mean his proleague stats aren't good, but I would place his 3 good results in major lans over a crappy proleague season (for jaedongs standards this wasn't a good season for him).
Because you have to look at tournament results in context. I mean I'm not saying JD is bad, but hyping up his finishes so much isn't really fair. In MLG, he played against pure foreigners, lost to Dear, beat Stats (notable victory) and lost to Naniwa. This is not what I'd call some super impressive run. In DH Stockholm, he beat Gumiho, I think Oz (maybe Coca too?), and then lost to Naniwa after taking out mostly foreigners otherwise. Of all of these, only Gumiho is a truly top tier player, and while his result is definitely notable, it's just one series. In DH Summer, he beat a lot of good foreigners in the group stages, Gumiho, lost 1-2 to Sting, then took out Stephano, Lucifron, and Taeja(!) before losing narrowly to Stardust. This is obviously JD's best result, but I don't think it's "top-player-in-the-world" result.
The fact is that a lot of the tournaments JD placed well in were light on top level Korean players, and of the ones who were there, most of them didn't seem to play JD until quite late into the tournament (except poor Gumiho). Again, JD is not bad. He's good. Really good, even. But he's not anywhere near Soulkey or Innovation or any of the three interchangeable best Protoss players who seem to rotate every few weeks. He's a solid Zerg with a really good ZvZ. He would have an alright chance of making it into WCS Korea, but it would be far from a sure thing and he could easily bomb out of Korea Challenger league on the weakness of his ZvP.
That's my thoughts anyway...
Well nobody is saying he's better then soulkey. He just isn't mid tier. Also he crushed innovation last time they played!
On July 13 2013 07:56 Fuell wrote: Jaedong to eSF!
MVPJaedong pls :>
IM_Jaedong! With Nestea teching him, Jaedong could become unstoppable!
what ? Nestea might even want JD's lessons
I dunno, haven't seen JD doing completely new stuff yet we constantly see random stuff from Nestea. Him thinking up crazy stuff and JD having the skill to preform it sounds scary.
On July 13 2013 07:56 Fuell wrote: Jaedong to eSF!
MVPJaedong pls :>
IM_Jaedong! With Nestea teching him, Jaedong could become unstoppable!
what ? Nestea might even want JD's lessons
I dunno, haven't seen JD doing completely new stuff yet we constantly see random stuff from Nestea. Him thinking up crazy stuff and JD having the skill to preform it sounds scary.
JD's strength isn't in doing random/weird builds but in taking an established playstyle/build and simply performing it better than everyone else. His execution is world class, but his decision making is less so, which is why I think he's so amazing at ZvZ/ZvT and struggling with ZvP. Those other two matchups are much more figured out and stable than ZvP atm. JD doesn't have a reliable way to play it yet. Once he does he'll be terrifying.
I hope he goes back to a Kespa team... Having Jaedong at many foreign tournaments is great but it hurts my soul to see him not reach his full potential.
I don't feel like pulling up the stats, but if we transferred JD's performance and iconic role to Green Wings would they perform really well? Are they the sort of team that needs a strong leading man or are they a more balanced team like CJ or WJS?
I don't see why Jaedong going to a Kespa team will magically see him assume the mantle he had in BW. If anything JD at EGTL looked to be improving and getting a hang of the game more so than when he was on Team8.
Plus Jaedong gets to go to many a foreign tournament. Yeah it mightn't be a big deal for people, but you have to consider how limited the travel opportunities were for folks in his position in BW, perhaps that kind of novelty, getting to travel and see the foreign fans etc may be welcomed by JD?
I wasn't that hopeful when they first picked him up, but tbh I actually think of him as a pretty integral part of EGTL, I can't see him at another team. Hope they have another crack at PL
I actually would like to see JD go back to kespa team, he has been doing great of late on EG but I think he has more potential on a team like kt or sk.
On July 15 2013 12:08 jax1492 wrote: I actually would like to see JD go back to kespa team, he has been doing great of late on EG but I think he has more potential on a team like kt or sk.
As much as I love KT and Jaedong, I would not want to see the two joined. Maybe it's the feeling that TBLS shouldn't be on the same team ever for official events (even though that SPL HotS showmatch thing was fun. I'd hope that training under coach Park and staying passionate about competing through decent results at foreign LANs would be an acceptable alternative.
That's really cool he has options at the end of his term. I'm sure he'll make the best decision if he chooses to stay with EG or move on. He's a hard worker so I don't comprehend some of the comments in this thread about him staying on EG will make him better or worse. He'll figure out how to win PvZ and start taking more gold medals at events.
On July 15 2013 12:59 aRyuujin wrote: i kinda hope he gets on a kespa team so he can improve properly
^this.
I feel like he really can improve a lot, maybe to not his BW level since it's a different game which doesn't suit him and a lot of the "BW veteran" players as well, but maybe to Flash's current level. He won't improve in EG, we already can see that.
Ofc it's cool to see more of him, but if I had to choose between "less, but stronger JD" vs " lots and lots of weaker JD", I'd pick the former.
Maybe not even Kespa, just a solid korean team, like LG-IM maybe.
On July 15 2013 12:59 aRyuujin wrote: i kinda hope he gets on a kespa team so he can improve properly
^this.
I feel like he really can improve a lot, maybe to not his BW level since it's a different game which doesn't suit him and a lot of the "BW veteran" players as well, but maybe to Flash's current level. He won't improve in EG, we already can see that.
Ofc it's cool to see more of him, but if I had to choose between "less, but stronger JD" vs " lots and lots of weaker JD", I'd pick the former.
Maybe not even Kespa, just a solid korean team, like LG-IM maybe.
The amount of playing time of a regular proleague player probably plays more then most imo. If the premise of Jaedong joining a 'proper team' would lead to a Jaedong who played better is actually correct, then outside of team loyalty there really isn't much to do but hope he changes team I guess.
That said, I'm not too sure if the problem with jaedong is his training environment or himself, as his zvt and zvz seem to be pretty amazing.
On July 15 2013 12:59 aRyuujin wrote: i kinda hope he gets on a kespa team so he can improve properly
^this.
I feel like he really can improve a lot, maybe to not his BW level since it's a different game which doesn't suit him and a lot of the "BW veteran" players as well, but maybe to Flash's current level. He won't improve in EG, we already can see that.
Ofc it's cool to see more of him, but if I had to choose between "less, but stronger JD" vs " lots and lots of weaker JD", I'd pick the former.
Maybe not even Kespa, just a solid korean team, like LG-IM maybe.
The amount of playing time of a regular proleague player probably plays more then most imo. If the premise of Jaedong joining a 'proper team' would lead to a Jaedong who played better is actually correct, then outside of team loyalty there really isn't much to do but hope he changes team I guess.
That said, I'm not too sure if the problem with jaedong is his training environment or himself, as his zvt and zvz seem to be pretty amazing.
Well the only top-tier Protoss player on EG-TL is Hero. I'm not sure who else Jaedong has to practice with but I doubt he's getting much access to the other world's best Protoss players like Rain, Flying, Trap, Jangbi, etc...
On July 14 2013 03:31 Waxangel wrote: as with every discussion like this, all evaluations of worth are largely pointless considering we have no idea how much anyone gets paid
of course EG would love to keep jaedong
who knows if the amount they're willing to pay for him matches what a korean team is willing to pay for him
For that matter who knows what he's looking to get out of any transition.
Does he just want max money? Does he want travel opportunities? To wrap up his career in korea?
He's done a lot in the last 8 years of starcraft, he's not old, but he's no spring chicken either. I would think at this point it'd be no surprise to see him extended with EG for another year then wrap up his career in Korea after that. That gives him 2 years to do a lot of things he never really got to do while being part of KeSPA. Then he can return to a KR team and play until he no longer has the desire and or ability to keep up. After that who knows if he'd stay in the scene as a coach or entertainer. Could simply choose to use the money and fame he's earned over his career to live the easy life I'm sure, assuming he's saved money anyway.
Regardless he's probably got another few good years left in him so he'll want to choose wisely as he won't likely get these same opportunities again down the road.
Does EG-TL have practice partners? Remember that KeSPA teams didn't just have players grinding games off of each other but also partners that they could play games with.
I'm a T8 fan, but honestly, I'm a bit surprised to see people criticizing Jaedong's performance so much. He's obviously improved during his time with EG (though I reject the notion that this improvement could not have happened elsewhere) and as far as his vP goes, it's not that bad. It's not great, but let's be honest, if his ZvP was as good as his other matchups, he would be one of the top players in the world, if not the top. His performance, and especially his improvement, has been very admirable. I still remember his disastrous "burrow my roaches to their deaths" first game in PL, so... let's say that I'm pleased.
That being said, I want him on T8 pretty badly. It's most likely not gonna happen, but damn it all, he's ours . It sucked for me when he left the team because they were already in a bad way, and it just seemed like confirmation that T8 was done for. And maybe if he had been on T8 the whole time they would have done better. Of course I hope (and believe) that he's happy on EG, and that the time has been good for him, but at the same time, I feel bad for T8 (now GW) because they can't seem to catch a break. I want him on their team just like I want them to sign any other rising star or established player. It could help the team having someone with that much experience and skill.
Obviously what's good for him is the most important thing, but I will definitely be sad if he doesn't come back to T8-GW. Either way, I hope he keeps getting better and improves every facet of his game. I don't think the team he's on is necessarily the biggest factor in whether that happens or not, but I know that it would definitely make this superfan happy if it happened on my team.
On July 15 2013 15:03 sc2superfan101 wrote: I'm a T8 fan, but honestly, I'm a bit surprised to see people criticizing Jaedong's performance so much. He's obviously improved during his time with EG (though I reject the notion that this improvement could not have happened elsewhere) and as far as his vP goes, it's not that bad. It's not great, but let's be honest, if his ZvP was as good as his other matchups, he would be one of the top players in the world, if not the top. His performance, and especially his improvement, has been very admirable. I still remember his disastrous "burrow my roaches to their deaths" first game in PL, so... let's say that I'm pleased.
That being said, I want him on T8 pretty badly. It's most likely not gonna happen, but damn it all, he's ours . It sucked for me when he left the team because they were already in a bad way, and it just seemed like confirmation that T8 was done for. And maybe if he had been on T8 the whole time they would have done better. Of course I hope (and believe) that he's happy on EG, and that the time has been good for him, but at the same time, I feel bad for T8 (now GW) because they can't seem to catch a break. I want him on their team just like I want them to sign any other rising star or established player. It could help the team having someone with that much experience and skill.
Obviously what's good for him is the most important thing, but I will definitely be sad if he doesn't come back to T8-GW. Either way, I hope he keeps getting better and improves every facet of his game. I don't think the team he's on is necessarily the biggest factor in whether that happens or not, but I know that it would definitely make this superfan happy if it happened on my team.
Yeah I feel. It looked like T8 was this KT/STX-esque sort of team with a decent group of backup players but no leading man to head the charge.
On July 13 2013 07:45 Bagi wrote: He sure gets a lot of publicity for a mid-tier player.
Mid-ter?
Damn if this is considered mid-tier: semi finals dreamhack, finals dreamhack, top 8 MLG, and qualifying for WCS premier league (these are his results since the first dreamhack).
Then you must think everyone is a mid-tier player other then the select few players like innovation/soulkey and maybe a few more.
Didn't Jaedong get 2-0ed by a mid master by the name of NrGQuasar? I think alot of people would agree that.he has been dissapointing.
On July 14 2013 00:33 dinosrwar wrote: JD should go back to GW and train his JvP against Jaehoon to improve and become a super Ace again. He doesn't have any good P practice partners on EG.
Heh... I dont think the problem of jaedong's poor zvp lies on being on EG. Can you tell me why Flash is so good despite the mediocore practice partners he has? Why does Bisu suck so much at pvp even though he has world class protoss players around him?
On July 14 2013 00:33 dinosrwar wrote: JD should go back to GW and train his JvP against Jaehoon to improve and become a super Ace again. He doesn't have any good P practice partners on EG.
Heh... I dont think the problem of jaedong's poor zvp lies on being on EG. Can you tell me why Flash is so good despite the mediocore practice partners he has? Why does Bisu suck so much at pvp even though he has world class protoss players around him?
On July 13 2013 07:45 Bagi wrote: He sure gets a lot of publicity for a mid-tier player.
Mid-ter?
Damn if this is considered mid-tier: semi finals dreamhack, finals dreamhack, top 8 MLG, and qualifying for WCS premier league (these are his results since the first dreamhack).
Then you must think everyone is a mid-tier player other then the select few players like innovation/soulkey and maybe a few more.
Didn't Jaedong get 2-0ed by a mid master by the name of NrGQuasar? I think alot of people would agree that.he has been dissapointing.
If he did it's not on TLPD which means if this did happen he probably lost in an online qualifier which mid tier foreigners have beaten many good koreans in before, but when it comes down to a lan environment the results are always different. So my point still stands, he has good tournament results, he lacked a bit in proleague, but otherwise did good in everything he's participated in. Does that make him bad? mid tier? Hell no. Is he "omg #1 zerg ever?" no he's not.
I mean you guys all like to say how amazing flash is doing (he's only made ro16 in code S and has done well in proleague and that 1 mlg he got top4) which isn't any better then jaedongs achievements (to be fair he hasn't gone to as many foreign tournaments I know that).
But then I think people just like to hate on jaedong because for some reason it's the "cool" thing to do for god knows why. His zvt/zvz are insanely good and his lacking mu right now is zvp, but that's improving (still pretty bad compared to his other mu's). But I guess people only look at his zvp and say "terrible player" rather then look at him as a whole.
I am definitely done reading this thread the amount of hate jaedong gets that is totally unjustified is so annoying to read.
I'm pretty convinced that there's a pretty big jump in zvp ability once you understand the match up to a certain point. Jaedong pretty clearly just doesn't get certain things about zvp which is why he continually makes mistakes, loses games while ahead or dies to two base timings that we just don't expect from a player of Jaedongs pedigree. The mechanics are there, his understanding of the game is continually improving, and right now I'm pretty convinced it's just a matter of time until he's ranked at the very top.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SrgtgiS.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/R1CH/Happy2.gif)
. Don't think any other foreign tosses have beaten him that I am aware of.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HvXDrG5.jpg)
