Cry Me a River - Balance Poll

On July 09 2013 13:11 hansonslee wrote:
Protoss have much more build orders to work with while Zerg cannot dictate the game as much, unless it is a zergling all-in or a bust while Protoss can have relatively safer (but not ultimately) builds that can punish.

Terran, on the other hand, can dictate the midgame with drops, mapcontrolling units such as hellions and Widow Mines, etc.

Zerg do not have that great of a luxury and have to play on top of their game to make the best decision as possible.

On July 09 2013 13:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:

You kind of had to survive until BL/infestor though.

On July 09 2013 13:59 AxionSteel wrote:


You make it sound like it was a rare event to survive to that point Lol.

On July 09 2013 13:52 TheRabidDeer wrote:

You kind of had to survive until BL/infestor though.

On July 09 2013 14:07 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Lol, not trying to instigate anything. Just saying that suddenly protoss complaining about the past and GSL's and champions and terrans and BL/infestor etc.

Honestly, terran and protoss bitched a ton at the end of WoL but for some reason people dont attribute that mass of crying as anything serious because BL/infestor was actually pretty strong

EDIT: Seriously, look at this thread. Everybody complaining about bl/infestor.

On July 09 2013 09:52 Master of DalK wrote:
So even Zergs think Zergs seem to express opinions the most lol

On July 09 2013 14:32 bo1b wrote:
It's funny because the winrates in proleague atm are worse then they've ever been and nobody gives a shit about that lol. That 45% winrate for tvz at the end of wol looks amazing compared to the >60% in the last three rounds of proleague.

On July 09 2013 09:58 MorroW wrote:
protoss being lowest in almost all of them means protoss is imba btw :-)

On July 09 2013 20:09 Tuczniak wrote:
What's the point of this thread? Everyone knew it was zerg. Any conlusions...?

my ideas why:
-worst start at WoL compared to P & T
-IdrA (terrans have Avilo, but nobody listens to him..)
-Z is the most susceptible to imbalances due to design (mostly defensive &reactive race)

On July 09 2013 20:50 DjayEl wrote:
Zerg is the most frustrating race to play when you don't play at pro level. It's not weaker by any means or whatever, it is just more frustrating when you lose because when you do, it "feels" like you cannot do anything about it.

On July 09 2013 20:50 DjayEl wrote:
I guess it comes from Zerg being a reactive race, vulnerable to all-ins and cheesy play while still not winning more that 50% of its games (obviously) even when all the potential cheeses had been ruled out. It is especially true when playing on ladder where you can encounter about any possible strategy (especially in ZvP) and must be able counter it, while as a P (for exemple), you can only master I build and play it until masters, nobody is going to play you twice anyway unless you are some kind of GM.

On July 09 2013 20:50 DjayEl wrote:It is not something that is very important as soon as you get enough game knowledge, but for the casual player I noticed it does matter a lot. There is just something that is not "fun" with the Zerg gameplay at lower levels, and all my lower leaguer Zerg buddies had switched race ever since or dropped playing SC2. The race just doesnt feel powerful or effective unless you reach a pretty decent level. Hence the whine.

Imho it is quite a downside for the whole game because it may draw new players away from the ladder.

On July 09 2013 21:31 Zrana wrote:
The reason it seems like zerg complains the most is probably how zerg plays in macro games. We have very few reasonably decent all-ins compared to the other races and generally for most of the game we are defending whatever the T or P decides to throw at us with very little way to hit back until later in the game. Even if statistically zerg is doing OK, to the player on ladder it can often feel like being a punching bag for other races.

On July 10 2013 00:16 aXa wrote:
I reall think that zerg complains the most, and rightfully so. It's not so much about balance, but about how fun or frustrating it is to play a race at a certain level (Masters, to be precise)


/* Whine activated */

I think everyone here should play zerg and understand how frustrating it is to play ZvT for instance.

I played Starcraft 2 since the beta, I freaking love this game and I made lots of guide about it in the strategy section. I usually get a bit mad when I get cheesed, but never when I lose a macro game. Now, every ZvT feels like a cheese, every widow mine hit makes me want to cry and shout at the same time. I never stopped playing for balance reason, but now it's been 3 months I didn't play just because the game makes me angry more than anything else.

It looks cool on stream, but just picture what it takes to play against widow mine:
A burrowed widow mine, at an KNOWN location, requires you to:
1: Morph an overseer,
2: Move the overseer and spot the widow mine
3: Pull the overseer back so he won't die , but not too far so you can see the widow mine
4: Select ONE zergling off of your zergling pack
5: Sacrifice him to trigger the mine
6: Kill the widow mine with some more zergling IF there is no widow mine left, otherwise, you are back to step n*2, or n*1 if you lost the overseer.

If you try to kill widow mine with mutalisk, expect to lose the game anytime soon.

This is A HUGE investment in multitasking, even more though because while this happens, you are supposed to do the following and very multitasking-intensive things:
-Defend multiple drops
-Inject your hatches
-Spread your creep and overlord
-Try to make counter-attacks (Even though they will fail to random defensive widow mine and reinforcement)

At the end, you are completely overwhelm, even though your APM is above average or simply superior to your opponent.
Widow mine allow terrans to just rally to your base in continuous and endless waves, you can't even use muta for harassment any more, but still you are compelled to use them to deal with medivacs...
You are depressed, you feel like a victim. You are scared to leave your base because there might be widow mine.

I was in a semi-pro team, and all our zerg including myself left, because the game was just so painful to play because of ZvT.

Statistics may look balanced, but I all see is zerg getting stomped even in the pro-scene, only some survive longer by using all-ins or by being far more better than their opponents, and it is really not fun to watch..

On July 09 2013 21:20 Liquid`TLO wrote:
This whole thread shows what's really wrong with balancing and balance discussion. It's way too emotional and subjective. Opinions should matter very little (sure some experience of the highest tier players can be important but should only be used as indicators what to research) and we need to get some real scientific data into this. I want to see huge spreadsheets full of statistics and transparency of all the data blizzard has available.

On July 10 2013 01:33 Plansix wrote:

Wrong, its terran is the most under powers. All the winrates I have carefully chosen will show you. Or its Protoss, because they never win anything, but place really high in a lot of events. Or maybe its zerg, because they haven't been underpowered in a while.

Maybe bad players are under powered?

On July 10 2013 01:10 NEEDZMOAR wrote:
"Im a: Zerg 220 votes"

I play Z and I think following race expresses its complaints the most:
340 votes.

Okay community, okay.

On July 10 2013 02:21 dr.fahrenheit wrote:


The last 4 polls are very flawed your are right, but the first and second are difinetely usable and by that I mean that they can be carefully interpreted.

And yes this thread is not about balance it's about peoples subjective perception of which race is and has been most unsatisfied with the balance of the game. It says absolutely nothing about if the game is/was balanced unbalanced or whatever, and nobody in their right mind would deduct from this polls if the game is/was balanced or not. Is this so hard to understand?