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People so mad over opinions!
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On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent.
GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination
GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination
OSL Ro32 is Bo1.
OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent.
Starting to understand?
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On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. "Do you want a player that can play any map?" Are you trying to tell me, the players on the list can only play certain maps and only certain match ups?? What??? So you're telling me, that these players have only 1 strategy in their repertoire and if it wasnt a bo1 they would fail? I personally hate the OSL Bo1 Dual Tournament format but it is what it is. And obviously the power rankings isnt judged purely on the OSL, but overall.
You clearly didn't get it. Of course they can play other maps or any other strategy.
But their performance is based on Proleague results in which they only practice one map, one strategy with one opponent.
This actually leads to the imbalanced performance of Proleague players. Example: Fantasy's TVT is infidelity in top 10. But his TvP? Not even close!
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On July 04 2013 12:15 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 11:28 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:12 Baroninthetree wrote:On July 04 2013 10:40 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On July 04 2013 10:34 mrRoflpwn wrote:
How is Fantasy in top 10? and How in the world is sOs of all people in the top 10 after getting massacred in the RO32. I think Stardust should be number 10 with everyone else moving up a spot after removing sOs. Not a very good power rank imo. Fantasy is doing fairly well in PL and made the ro16 in OSL over Life and Jangbi. Decent enough for the month of June. With his recent loss to First, and what will probably be a loss to Rain...possibly even Hyvaa, I expect he'll be dropped out for August. The fact that Proleague has so many games makes these players in the Top 10, which of course means little. I agree that Flash can be the top 3. But Janbi? Fantasy? what have they won, like ever? Fantasy got 1st in the group of death that had the likes of Jangbi, Losira and LIfe. He's also made one of the pimpest plays (although this shouldnt get much merit) in his game vs Flash. If he didnt have a brainfart in the game vs First, he's been pretty impressive overall. As for Jangbi. Samsung Khan is on the brink of elimination, Jangbi's been carrying Samsung Khan hard. He's one of the main reasons why Samsung Khan is still barely in the playoff race. being down 3-1 and winning 4-3 with Jangbi winning two of those three games was rather impressive. Jangbi also made it to the finals of the MLG qualifier failing to Dear, he was awfully close. Jangb dropped out of Ro32 but his competition of the group of death. He's arugably the 3rd best protoss Kespa has to offer. There is justification. Personally I also think Fantasy is placed too high but I can see why people slotted him there. Bo1 games don't count much, not in proleague, not in OSL ro32, at least not for me. As for his game vs Flash, another sample would be his game vs JYP, i wouldn't be too impressed at all. He might be Top 10 in TvT, but overall, definitely nowhere near 7th. I agree he's the 3rd best Protoss atm in proleague. But 6th in the world? i don't think so. I even quite like Janbi as Kespa players. But falling to Dear was awful enough. I couldn't imagine any top 10 player falling to dear in bo3. No, not even top 20 players. Just look at how polt dominate Dear in fashion.
I dont understand this bo1 is invalid argument.
The players who have been producing the best BO1 results ARE Innovation, Rain, Soulkey, Flash, the same bunch of players who basically are locks to go in far in any tournament. so are you saying that everything they're doing in SPL is invalid? Also it was PvP, PvP is a coinflip.
"I couldnt imagine any top 10 player falling to dear in bo3"
So how was it, trying to imagine Labyrinth 2-1 Soulkey?
I think that's more embarassing.
Just out of curiousity, who do you think is "top 10"?
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On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:
Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map?
Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why?
Hey if everyone was the same the world would be boring. I'm the opposite of you, I want to see two people try to mind fuck each other with insane build orders because they got into the other persons head and figured them out totalaly. It's more creative, strategic and entertaining. It also gives a good story about each player, their tendencies, counteracting those tendencies, etc, etc. It literately puts the "strategy" in RTS. For me anyway.
"Any player, any map, any time" is fine, but I personally think it produces rote games that are fairly uneventful and boring in the aggregate. It doesn't produce story lines of head to head combat, mind games, etc as much as the other way. It just feels like...grinding through games. Again, I don't personally find that interesting.
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On July 04 2013 12:19 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. "Do you want a player that can play any map?" Are you trying to tell me, the players on the list can only play certain maps and only certain match ups?? What??? So you're telling me, that these players have only 1 strategy in their repertoire and if it wasnt a bo1 they would fail? I personally hate the OSL Bo1 Dual Tournament format but it is what it is. And obviously the power rankings isnt judged purely on the OSL, but overall. You clearly didn't get it. Of course they can play other maps or any other strategy. But their performance is based on Proleague results in which they only practice one map, one strategy with one opponent. This actually leads to the imbalanced performance of Proleague players. Example: Fantasy's TVT is infidelity in top 10. But his TvP? Not even close!
Yes, one map/one strategy/one opponent, the same way people prepare for upcoming matches against player X by preparing a build for map x vs specific opponent a, "build #2 for map y vs specific opponent a" the only thing that changes is quantity. Every other variable is the same.
Fantasy TvP is nowhere close to Fantasy's TvT though. that's true. However, Life is infamous for having a bad or medicore ZvZ but having a godly ZvT and ZvP, so during Life's reign, does that discredit him as not the best player at that time?
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So this is the first sc2 article I've read on TL in a while.
I thought it was a bw power rank after glancing at the players.
Where's all the foreigners? hahaha
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On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand?
Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps.
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On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps.
You wouldn't think prepare for one map and one opponent is the same as prepare for 5 maps with 3 opponents, right?
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On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps.
You really don't understand that preparing for just one or two games is much different than preparing for five or six games? Okay then.
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On July 04 2013 12:23 ohN wrote:
So this is the first sc2 article I've read on TL in a while.
I thought it was a bw power rank after glancing at the players.
Where's all the foreigners? hahaha
foreigners on a list of the top 10 players in the world? maybe naniwa will crack it one day...
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On July 04 2013 12:29 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps. You wouldn't think prepare for one map and one opponent is the same as prepare for 5 maps with 3 opponents, right?
It is relatively the same, more time needed to make strategies for an extra opponent or two but relatively the same.
The players succeeding in Bo1 are the same players who are succeeding in BO3/Bo5/Bo7.
With bigger sample size, for any given player you will start to settle on a median. Take into the factor that opponent is also thinking of a strategy for a specific map for a specific opponent.
There are "Snipers", but in no way is any of the players in the given list a "Sniper"
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On July 04 2013 12:23 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:19 Baroninthetree wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. "Do you want a player that can play any map?" Are you trying to tell me, the players on the list can only play certain maps and only certain match ups?? What??? So you're telling me, that these players have only 1 strategy in their repertoire and if it wasnt a bo1 they would fail? I personally hate the OSL Bo1 Dual Tournament format but it is what it is. And obviously the power rankings isnt judged purely on the OSL, but overall. You clearly didn't get it. Of course they can play other maps or any other strategy. But their performance is based on Proleague results in which they only practice one map, one strategy with one opponent. This actually leads to the imbalanced performance of Proleague players. Example: Fantasy's TVT is infidelity in top 10. But his TvP? Not even close! Yes, one map/one strategy/one opponent, the same way people prepare for upcoming matches against player X by preparing a build for map x vs specific opponent a, "build #2 for map y vs specific opponent a" the only thing that changes is quantity. Every other variable is the same. Fantasy TvP is nowhere close to Fantasy's TvT though. that's true. However, Life is infamous for having a bad or medicore ZvZ but having a godly ZvT and ZvP, so during Life's reign, does that discredit him as not the best player at that time?
Exactly, the only thing changed is quantity. So you think prepare for one map and one opponent is the same as prepare for 5 maps with 3 opponents. Then i will argue no more in this matter.
As for Life's zvz, its never bad. It's just not as good as his ZvT or ZvP. Actually, his ZvZ win ratio at that time is around 70%. He just fell to the better ZvZ player Roro and soulkey who both turned out to be champions.
I don's see JYP or First a champion anytime soon.
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On July 04 2013 12:33 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:29 Baroninthetree wrote:On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps. You wouldn't think prepare for one map and one opponent is the same as prepare for 5 maps with 3 opponents, right? The players succeeding in Bo1 are the same players who are succeeding in BO3/Bo5/Bo7.
Soulkey lost a Bo1 to Yugioh. I really don't think you can put much weight on Bo1.
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On July 04 2013 12:30 Megiddosc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps. You really don't understand that preparing for just one or two games is much different than preparing for five or six games? Okay then.
Of course its much different. theres more preparation needed, but thats about it.
Your argument is completely illogical because its centralized around the fact that "bo1" is invalid.
There is no supporting evidence that anyone on that list whether it be Fanta/Jangbi/Flash/Soulkey/Innovation/Rain are not "good players that are ready on any map, at any time"
"Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map?"
- This quote, is full of crap. Why? Because players are always going to practice and in most cases make specific builds.
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On July 04 2013 12:33 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:29 Baroninthetree wrote:On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps. You wouldn't think prepare for one map and one opponent is the same as prepare for 5 maps with 3 opponents, right? It is relatively the same, more time needed to make strategies for an extra opponent or two but relatively the same. The players succeeding in Bo1 are the same players who are succeeding in BO3/Bo5/Bo7. With bigger sample size, for any given player you will start to settle on a median. Take into the factor that opponent is also thinking of a strategy for a specific map for a specific opponent. There are "Snipers", but in no way is any of the players in the given list a "Sniper"
It's not the same. Only if a players has infinity memory. 5 maps with 3 opponent could give you more than 10 different matches.
And you got it backwards, the players success in BOx can success in BO1, since they are the best players. While the players success in BO1 not necessary success in BOx.
Players like Hydra, Zest, Hero, Effort are all in Proleague Top 10. I don't see them deliver any individual results anytime soon.
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On July 04 2013 12:35 Megiddosc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:33 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:29 Baroninthetree wrote:On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:
[quote]
Agreed!
SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL?
0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad.
players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG!
YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks!
...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps. You wouldn't think prepare for one map and one opponent is the same as prepare for 5 maps with 3 opponents, right? The players succeeding in Bo1 are the same players who are succeeding in BO3/Bo5/Bo7. Soulkey lost a Bo1 to Yugioh. I really don't think you can put much weight on Bo1.
You dont get it. You really dont.
I would be all over this PR if it was judging a player by a 1-2 bo1 on judging a player. You dont and you can't.
This assessment is made over a large quantity of games, opponents and tournaments.
I've made this clear when I've solidified my argument of why Fanta/Rain/Jangbi are justified and why First isnt (Small sample size, too few games). So because upsets can happen, you dont put weight in Bo1?
That's exactly what youre suggesting. So all of those players, who consistent win their Bo1 deserves no credit? Seriously?
Feel free to argue about the format of SPL/OSL being Ro1s. I dont like it either and prefer all-kill and double elmination, however that doesnt mean the results should be discredited.
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On July 04 2013 12:41 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:30 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 11:53 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 11:46 Megiddosc wrote:
This was a hilarious list. If your "Power Rankings" are to determine the best player after weeks and weeks of practicing one specific build on one specific map then fine, you have your list. I think that's crap though. A good player needs to be ready on any map, at any time. And that's why tournaments such as MLG are far more entertaining for me than Proleague. And you know what, there were KeSPA players at MLG! Maybe not the ones on this list, but that's because the ones listed on this list, except for Flash, were defeated in the KeSPA qualifier tournament. Dear, Stats, and soO did not impress me one bit at MLG. They didn't look terrible of course, but they did not look like they belong to some superior group of players that because they play in Proleague are automatically the best SC2 players on the planet. And these are the players that Flash, Innovation, Rain, etc. are playing in Proleague! I'm not arguing that Innovation/Soulkey/Flash do not deserve their spots. However, I'm arguing that considering KeSPA and Proleague, as whole, above any other body of players is incredibly ridiculous. Oh, and Hitman, Mini, Motive, and Comet looked terrible in the WCS NA qualifier as well. I know they're B-Team and all, but still, they represent KeSPA and Proleague. And one got defeated by LZGamer and another by Massan. In a Bo3. Hilarious.
Maybe a time will come when the majority of KeSPA players can actually prove to be able to do more than play Bo1s with strictly-practiced builds on specific maps, but that time is not now. Not with their, quite frankly, dismal performance at MLG. Agreed! SPL is so boring to watch for Megiddosc, wtf are we judging players based on team leagues??? We should be judging the players solely on 1 tournament MLG and GSTL. How many games did Kespa players win in the GSTL? 0. ESF WON ALL OF THEM!. My god SPL is putridly bad. players like Jangbi, fantasy and flash are awful players because Dear and soo bombed out of MLG! YEA, AMEN BROTHER!.All those b-teamer kespa players who barely see action in SPL, They looked awful!!! WTFBBQ WHY ISNT LZGAMER TOP10 IN LIST? STUPID LIST. OBVIOUSLY Kespa sucks! ...you have no idea what youre talking about. Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps. You really don't understand that preparing for just one or two games is much different than preparing for five or six games? Okay then. Of course its much different. theres more preparation needed, but thats about it. Your argument is completely illogical because its centralized around the fact that "bo1" is invalid. There is no supporting evidence that anyone on that list whether it be Fanta/Jangbi/Flash/Soulkey/Innovation/Rain are not "good players that are ready on any map, at any time" "Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map?" - This quote, is full of crap. Why? Because players are always going to practice and in most cases make specific builds.
I guess we need to stop here if you can not understand the difference between one game and five games. What am i to say. A Sorites Paradox. You can never argue someone who is in a Paradox because it seems so logic to himself.
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1 Zerg in the top 10. Very reflective of current balance.
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On July 04 2013 12:46 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 12:35 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:33 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:29 Baroninthetree wrote:On July 04 2013 12:25 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:19 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:14 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:09 Megiddosc wrote:On July 04 2013 12:03 LighT. wrote:On July 04 2013 12:00 Megiddosc wrote:
[quote]
Congratulations. You can do hyperbole. When you want to discuss things, I'm all ears. In the past 2-3 pages, if you take the time to read my posts, I've explained exactly why Jangbi/Fantasy and Flash may be deserving of their spot. All you have is a hate speech. The thing that we need to discuss is that there is a disconnect between the way SPL/OSL sets up and all other SC2 tournaments. Do you want a player that can play any map, any matchup with no prior specific practice? Or do you want a player who can practice a single specific build to execute on a specific map? Personally, I'd take the all-around player. Which is why I'm disappointed that OSL is setup much different than GSL had been.But for those who followed BW prefer it the other way. What I'd like to know, is why? Megiddosc. For GSL and OSL, you know players make strategies based on the map and the opponent right? Just like how they formulate a strategy in SPL based on the map/opponent. GSL Ro32 is Bo3 double elimination GSL Ro16 is Bo3 double elimination OSL Ro32 is Bo1. OSL Ro16 is Bo3 Round Robin. But you only play 1 match at a time. It gives more time to setup a specific build on a specific map for the next opponent. Starting to understand? Yes, I understand that, that changes absolutely nothing of what I am arguing. even in double elimination players still devise specific strategies for player x,y and z. for specific maps. You wouldn't think prepare for one map and one opponent is the same as prepare for 5 maps with 3 opponents, right? The players succeeding in Bo1 are the same players who are succeeding in BO3/Bo5/Bo7. Soulkey lost a Bo1 to Yugioh. I really don't think you can put much weight on Bo1. So because upsets can happen, you dont put weight in Bo1?
Not as much weight, no. There's a reason GSL stopped with Bo1s in the Code S Ro32. There have been countless of occasions where a player would win the first game in a Bo3 only to lose the next two. Bo1 is not nearly as impressive to me as Bo3+.
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EPT
