EPTEx-Karont3 removed from Acer Teamstory Cup - Page 5
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
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Mekare
Germany393 Posts
On June 11 2013 06:30 Otolia wrote: That's bad and it reflects poorly on TaKe's admins. But considering how they didn't warn anyone that there was going to be a second round it's not surprising - props to SinCitta to have investigated that. To be fair, it was mentioned on the German stream several times by Dennis himself that there would be a second round. But the TaKeTV crew is generally not very good with passing along information to TL, or the international community in general. I have always wondered what the reason for that is. So yeah, there defenitely seems to be some sort of communication defecit... This whole thing is really tragic for K3. When Luci and Vortix left one of my first thoughts (right after HOLY FUCK THIS IS HUUUGE!!!) was what will happen in ATC now? They were doing so well, and I wondered how long they would be able to stay in the top 4 without Luci and Vortix and now being forced to mainly rely on Socke. But since Socke had just all-killed ROOT and especially after they were able to beat Acer, it seemed that there maybe was still a chance. I thought that maybe they would sign another player, but since they had already announced that they had shut down their SC2 division I somewhat still expected them to just back out of the league on their own. I get that they're all very busy people, but from the moment Luci and Vortix left K3 to join mouz (and I'm pretty sure that TaKeTV & Co knew about the transfer before it was officially announced) until the moment the final ruling was spoken, was more than enough time to communicate properly, for K3 and for TaKeTV to think about a solution together. As has been stated a lot already, the idea of adding two more jokers to the team is ridiculous; more jokers than actual players that belong to the team? I find it suprising that TaKeTV apparently agreed to that in the first place. That just doesn't make sense, and I completely understand that other teams and later TaKeTV were against that. But signing one or two formerly teamless players and abide by the rule of not allowing them to play for an amount of time (2 playdays, I think?), that seemed like a good compromise. Well, I guess that's that, then. Pretty sad how it went down. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And admins should never give a 100% yes alone on such things, gives only problems at the end hehe. | ||
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
Especially because some things arent correct. Vipro is on complexity now so you are left with LoLvsxD and Socke. You need at least 4 people to compete. You didnt sign anybody new so you can not compete. Having 2 additional "jokers" with Thorzain and Sortof is clearly against the rule and unfair to the other teams. Thats a pretty bad proposal. The seesaw with the admins was just because they really tried to find a solution that would keep everyone happy and really wanted to keep you in the league. I cant imagine its because they wanted to fuck you over. If you had just presented 2 new players to the karont3 roster asap, im very sure you could have stayed in the league. But you failed to propose a good solution in time. This state of confusion is also your fault because you were massively contributing to it by already announcing the disbanding of karont3. So please dont put the blame on the admins that there is confusion. If you want to go with the cheapest solution possible all the time and just refuse to do the obvious, which is sign 2 new players, then at some point i would be done with it too and say no its not possible anymore. Its not a situation anybody would've expected and apparently nobody was prepared for that. So ofc theres gonna be confusion. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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_SpiRaL_
Afghanistan1636 Posts
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oneill12
Romania1222 Posts
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
On June 11 2013 07:18 oneill12 wrote: They should not have been kicked out and neither should they have been let to brink in EG, WW or Alternate players It was part of the rules that every team could have one joker, so the Alternate players (Socke) is still perfectly fine. ViPro joined Complexity, but that shouldn't make any difference. He was still an original player in the team league. Other team leagues have allowed teams to keep using a player till the end of the tournament. K3 doesn't need to exist for the same players to play. In the end, it's the matches that matter. | ||
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partouf
Netherlands405 Posts
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On June 11 2013 07:42 Jerubaal wrote: To repeat what's been said several times, there are many reasons why Karont3 might have been kicked out, but the way it was handled suggests that somebody (an admin and/or teams) were just hellbent on getting them kicked out by any means necessary. If them no longer being a team was an issue, then it should have stopped right there. Instead, they were given fake conditions that were changed every time they were met. Now wait a minute. Has Take's organization released a statement yet? We need to hear both sides of the story before we conclude that the tournament was out to get K3. | ||
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katzenman
Germany61 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5221 Posts
And now you're wondering why they kicked you out of the league? But seriously, this could have been handled a lot better. When Luci and Vortix left, this should have been the number 1 concern for the ATC, and it should have been dealt with immediately. | ||
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dirtydurb82
United States178 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23579 Posts
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SinCitta
Germany2127 Posts
1. In these cases, it's always easy to blame the admins. But most of them do it voluntarily without prior experience and unpaid (99% certain that's the case for TakeTV), except those that are paid to do other stuff as well. And there aren't such things as training courses and such. 2. The complete rules for every tournament and league where money is involved must be publically available in its entirety. Can we as an industry just move forward and do this already? Team disbandments, roster changes, player changes etc. midseason are more the rule in esports than the exception in the duration of a season, so there needs to be rules for that. There must be a freely copyable industry standard for SC2 rules which every organizer can reuse (and briefly document its deviations if there are ones). ESL is probably the only organization with a comprehensive rulebook, but it is sometimes unclear which version of that they are using (IEM offline rulebook was different than for the online play and was not publically available). MLG's rules are like a website which could fit into two sheets of paper. Never seen the rules for IPL and NASL... or even for WCS. 3. 1on1 Skype convos with admins are a recipe for disaster. Why do so many bad admin stories start with this? Issues should be brought up on a platform where admins can check the decision made by other admins and where the official stance of the admins can be more trusted. | ||
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lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
They would have either hired a teamless player (eg. Dimaga), two more jokers (sortOf, Thorzain) or let their manager play in order to fill up the roster. Now it seems to me, the problem is not about the eventual the new players but around the legitimacy of the new team in general. What makes a team? What happens when a team folds? Can some of the former players (and not even the best of them) just make a new team and demand to be linked to the old team's history? By what standards? How many former players or managers does it take to be recognized as the official successor? What would have happened, if for example the Duran brother's new team had been unaffiliated with the league as well? Could they have made a claim to place their new team into Karont3's position as well? | ||
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xN.07)MaK
Spain1159 Posts
I don't get why the solution involving the manager playing was not accepted. It's not against the rules, and no one should be able to tell you how good or how bad your players have to be in order to play. If this applied to GSTL, we would see some players get banned too, no need for names here. Is there a statement yet by Take & co? I would like to read their side, but I'm assuming the "it's against the rules" line will prevail. | ||
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PviLLe3
United States305 Posts
On June 11 2013 07:04 Blargh wrote: How can anyone possibly say that what they did was the "right decision"? At the bare minimum, the team should be able to play with just the 3 of them, or the 3 + the manager for the sake of having 4 players. I'd rather see 3 v 5 than see a walkover. Pretty much common sense. Now, allowing the 3 jokers is a bit "ehhhh" in terms of fairness, but I'm sure Luci and Vortix would finish off the league if asked, right?? i agree with this. i can see other teams having problems with them taking a player or two from teams that are or were in the league, but they should have ZERO problems having the coach play, and maybe even on a lesser extent just letting them pick up two unknown unaligned players. but the part where they wont let the coach who is a part of the team participate so they have the 4 players needed is just a ridiculous ruling. what im guessing is take and the admin crew got too much heat from other " more known " coaches and organizations and caved harder than a folding chair | ||
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