Hellbats Review - Page 22

On June 10 2013 14:40 AnomalySC2 wrote:


Infestor Broodlord only came about because of the constant nerfing (and in some cases buffing ^_^). It's a never ending road if they start going down it. One nerf will lead to the next, so on and so forth.

On June 10 2013 07:49 Seiniyta wrote:
Just add an upgrade to the Command Center which makes SCV's 50% more resiliant against fire attacks. 50 minerals/ 50 gas.

On June 10 2013 14:44 Sky0 wrote:
Easiest fix in the game. Just make it so they cant be picked up by medivacs

On June 10 2013 15:11 Zambrah wrote:


Or if it should be spammable, it should have some negative effect. Nice risk/reward to punish people who overuse and reward those who use it smartly.

This game needs more incentive to play smartly. :-D

On June 10 2013 15:05 Decendos wrote:
the real problem with hellbat is pretty much only their high burst damage which makes 2 hellbats oneshot a workerline. so why not make them shoot faster but lower their damage so in the end its the same DPS but the defender has a bit more time to react since the first shot wont instakill everything while they stay as good in a direct fight.

On June 10 2013 15:23 stuchiu wrote:
I'll record results of games with Hellbats in this thread:

ZvT:
Cure 1-0 Soulkey SPL

On June 10 2013 15:20 Type|NarutO wrote:
So many people that either are not very good at the game or simply don't try to understand what the problems are. I really cannot stand balance whines on lower-levels (lower levels = below proleague and competetive tournament play and I don't talk about clan setup-amateur tournaments).

If people tell me they are losing to me on ladder because of imbalance, I can point out that you could put every Protoss or Zerg from the proleague against me and he would rip my heart out, eat it and shit it into my body again. Its just plain stupid. They are losing because they are reacting terrible and do horrible mistakes.

Now for the matter itself. I think hellbats can be countered by Zerg pretty well. The question is, does the counter of hellbats (roach/banes) set you back in that game by such a margin, that it is imbalanced? In bigger fights I would say Zerg can deal with them pretty efficiently.

Now for TvP where I think a 'real' issue takes place. Protoss got better in HotS, a lot. Especially against Terran. They got more allins, have more chance to scout and pressure with the MSC and their defence due to photon overcharge is a lot better. If you are not excellent with bio and drops, you will not touch a Protoss on some maps right now. Hellbat drops take place earlier than bio drops as you would need stim + combatshields and you also (as pointed out by op) only need to drop 2 units to deal damage.

Protoss has to respond and even a photon overcharge will not shoot down hellbats quickly (or the medivac) so ideally you either drop, shoot and fly away when photon overcharge came as respond and as long as you don't lose your drop, its a win to you. Most Protoss would react with 1-2 cannons. That is not a proper response. Well it is - but it will put you behind. Terran can get a 3rd cc with hellbat drop expansions easily and add barracks and ebay or double ebay even. Good Protoss can and will react with an earlier 3rd base to hellbat pressure. When you drop hellbats you constantly spend 300/100 (1 medivac, 2 hellbats) and you get your bio running a bit slower. That means you cannot pressure as fast. Lots of stalkers are a good option (twilight tech, hero style) with a faster 3rd to deny hellbats and get your economy running.

While I would say, the hellbat might be a tad too strong, I don't see Terrans winning on it in TvP and TvZ on the highest level. There are games that were decided by it, but if you put 8 marines stimmed into a Zerg or Protoss economy, they will shred your shit just as fast and can decide a game. I think Blizzard should give it a bit more time (remember, blueflame hellions got nerfed, but people began to figure them out, walling, sim city etc) and it will be just like that with hellbats. Spores / Turret in Economy or cannon is a good timer for it, so he cannot stay there... Give it time :x

PS: Yes I'm Terran, I would not cry if its nerfed, I simply don't think the time is here yet.

On June 10 2013 15:20 Type|NarutO wrote:
So many people that either are not very good at the game or simply don't try to understand what the problems are. I really cannot stand balance whines on lower-levels (lower levels = below proleague and competetive tournament play and I don't talk about clan setup-amateur tournaments).

If people tell me they are losing to me on ladder because of imbalance, I can point out that you could put every Protoss or Zerg from the proleague against me and he would rip my heart out, eat it and shit it into my body again. Its just plain stupid. They are losing because they are reacting terrible and do horrible mistakes.

Now for the matter itself. I think hellbats can be countered by Zerg pretty well. The question is, does the counter of hellbats (roach/banes) set you back in that game by such a margin, that it is imbalanced? In bigger fights I would say Zerg can deal with them pretty efficiently.

Now for TvP where I think a 'real' issue takes place. Protoss got better in HotS, a lot. Especially against Terran. They got more allins, have more chance to scout and pressure with the MSC and their defence due to photon overcharge is a lot better. If you are not excellent with bio and drops, you will not touch a Protoss on some maps right now. Hellbat drops take place earlier than bio drops as you would need stim + combatshields and you also (as pointed out by op) only need to drop 2 units to deal damage.

Protoss has to respond and even a photon overcharge will not shoot down hellbats quickly (or the medivac) so ideally you either drop, shoot and fly away when photon overcharge came as respond and as long as you don't lose your drop, its a win to you. Most Protoss would react with 1-2 cannons. That is not a proper response. Well it is - but it will put you behind. Terran can get a 3rd cc with hellbat drop expansions easily and add barracks and ebay or double ebay even. Good Protoss can and will react with an earlier 3rd base to hellbat pressure. When you drop hellbats you constantly spend 300/100 (1 medivac, 2 hellbats) and you get your bio running a bit slower. That means you cannot pressure as fast. Lots of stalkers are a good option (twilight tech, hero style) with a faster 3rd to deny hellbats and get your economy running.

While I would say, the hellbat might be a tad too strong, I don't see Terrans winning on it in TvP and TvZ on the highest level. There are games that were decided by it, but if you put 8 marines stimmed into a Zerg or Protoss economy, they will shred your shit just as fast and can decide a game. I think Blizzard should give it a bit more time (remember, blueflame hellions got nerfed, but people began to figure them out, walling, sim city etc) and it will be just like that with hellbats. Spores / Turret in Economy or cannon is a good timer for it, so he cannot stay there... Give it time :x

PS: Yes I'm Terran, I would not cry if its nerfed, I simply don't think the time is here yet.
Edit: Right when I posted it, SoulKey got raped by Cure with Hellbats even though he didn't play his best. In my face :[

On June 10 2013 14:44 Sky0 wrote:
Easiest fix in the game. Just make it so they cant be picked up by medivacs

On June 10 2013 15:27 Decendos wrote:


the thing is: vs marine drops you can micro, pull worker and its a 500/100 investment which in case the opponent reacts fast loses 0 worker while with hellbats and good afterburner micro its hard to no kill some worker and force a lot of lost mining time. its pretty counterintuitive that you drop hellbats INTO static defense (you will lose medivac but kill worker + lost mining time if you move into static). they need to keep hellbat drops at a strong state but right now its just way too effective for how early it comes in the game.

On June 10 2013 01:38 Bagi wrote:
The hellbat whine is a bunch of fucking bullshit. Who cares about TvT anyway? Why would you limit perfectly balanced strategies in other match-ups because you don't exactly like the current TvT metagame?

The problem isn't the hellbat in the first place, it's the medivac booster with its ridiculously short cooldown. Add 5 seconds and hellbat drops lose all their mobility, the end.