On June 10 2013 03:32 Reborn8u wrote: A few points I'd like to add. First of all I main as Terran, and to hear terrans complain about hellbats in tvt makes me think "how do you think zerg feels?" Most of the issues sited apply to the unit in many matchups. I actually don't feel players are even using them to their full potential, they are not changing them from hellion to hell bat mode at the right times. I think alternating in blue hellion/hellbat drops is more powerful because they have to either pull or split their workers depending on which it is, the wrong choice is disaster. Also, walking them across the map is pretty silly when they go so fast as hellions.
Terrans need to use SENSOR TOWERS more in TvT. It is very very cheap to make a sensor tower compared to the dmg a surprise drop can do to the economy! Furthermore, I feel that getting the upgrade on turret range is well worth it to help crush drops. I also see many terrans making their 3rd's and 4th bases as orbitals. Make them PF's and build extra orbitls for mules in your main. Terrans often have the minerals to burn. A PF is so much safer against raids!
I think a lot of the reasons these things are underutilized is that many players are playing WOL with Hellbats. Instead of HOTS. This mentality and lack of creativity is hampering the races potential imo. But hey who am I? What do I know? This wouldn't be the first time I've posted ideas that got flamed, only to see them become popular or at least utilized months later......
You are so damn right!!! I was playing Mech in TvP from the Beta and was dforced to upgrade turrets and build Sensor towers in each base to cover the Warp Prism and finally found this thigs very usefull in TvT as well,when the BIO drops were so common and now the Hellbats. With this help,you just need to see them coming and rect sending vikings or marines to snipe the medivacs incoming...
In PvT i have learned my lesson. When faced with Hell bat drops. 3 cannons in hte mineral line before i even attempt to move out because of these drops.
On June 10 2013 05:09 Orcasgt24 wrote: I think they should just nerf the medivac boost. Do not let units load or unload from a boosted medivac and don't let the medivac be able to heal.. Add a cancel boost option to the medivac though.
Why???? Is there a problem with terran in general? TvP is already hard. TvZ lategame is already hard. You have no idea how big a speedvac nerf would be. Do we want WOL terran back or what? After reading the comments, I feel like this is what people are saying:
Dear Blizzard, thanks for our buffs, but we want the new terran stuff to be nerfed. This way we can play against WOL terrans, with our upgraded protoss and zerg race. Because you knew, terrans were doing "so well" at the end of WOL.
Well, you terrans, were surely not complaining at the beginning of WoL. Hmm, I wonder why?
I said this in another thread, but you're just as bad these zergs defending their OP mutas(vs P, anyway)
You never really needed the medivac buff to begin with and the same can be said mutas.
This hellbat unit is just another warhound in disguise.
What has the beginning of WOL to do with this? We don't need a medivac buff, but meanwhile our protoss opponent got a nexus cannon so we can't shine in the midgame (like we should do). Our zerg opponents got better ultralisks, cheaper burrow tech, blind cloud, etc. So again, we don't need the medivac buff?
I'm actually fine with the damage output of the hellbat. I don't think it needs to be nerfed in terms of damage, but I do think it needs to be reclassified as a higher tech unit. Something like a Thor but maybe. Increase its cost and/or its supply.
My main question is if they nerf the hellbat what place will it have?? its not very good outside of drops tbh, so if there was a nerf to damage orcost you would see widow mine and never hellbat. maybe a good idea would be to disable the boost for medivacs while hellbats are in them. this would nerf the drop power, but keep the unit viable.
Why not just make medivac speed boost have a temporary negative impact on speed after the effect wears off.
So basically: - Medivac cruising along at 2.5 speed - Ignite's afterburners to speed up to 4.25 for 8 seconds - After effect wears off, speed is reduced to 1.875 (Battlecruiser speed) for 2-3 seconds
This would still incentivize utilizing afterburners to gtfo of tight spots with drops and would also discourage abusing the boost too much offensively. On the other hand, you could still use it to drop hellbats onto armies as is currently done but once they're dropped the medivacs are sitting ducks.
Im quite sick of TvT hellbat style. To be honest, hell bats shouldn't be able to be loaded into a medivac. I think its fair, you can still load hellions and with good micro do good damage.
Im sick of TvT with hellbat drops as a player and also as a spectator.
I wonder what would happen if you made Hellbats cost say 25 gas or so. This would encourage you to get the transformation upgrade to then make hellions and transform them to save on gas in the long run. Early game though it would tone them down a bit because you couldn't just mineral dump on them and spend your gas on everything else, upgrades/medivacs/tech.
On June 10 2013 05:09 Orcasgt24 wrote: I think they should just nerf the medivac boost. Do not let units load or unload from a boosted medivac and don't let the medivac be able to heal.. Add a cancel boost option to the medivac though.
Why???? Is there a problem with terran in general? TvP is already hard. TvZ lategame is already hard. You have no idea how big a speedvac nerf would be. Do we want WOL terran back or what? After reading the comments, I feel like this is what people are saying:
Dear Blizzard, thanks for our buffs, but we want the new terran stuff to be nerfed. This way we can play against WOL terrans, with our upgraded protoss and zerg race. Because you knew, terrans were doing "so well" at the end of WOL.
Well, you terrans, were surely not complaining at the beginning of WoL. Hmm, I wonder why?
I said this in another thread, but you're just as bad these zergs defending their OP mutas(vs P, anyway)
You never really needed the medivac buff to begin with and the same can be said mutas.
This hellbat unit is just another warhound in disguise.
What has the beginning of WOL to do with this? We don't need a medivac buff, but meanwhile our protoss opponent got a nexus cannon so we can't shine in the midgame (like we should do). Our zerg opponents got better ultralisks, cheaper burrow tech, blind cloud, etc. So again, we don't need the medivac buff?
YOU brought up the END of WoL. As for the nexus cannon, it was supposed to keep P from dying to T all ins. (And it doesn't do that well for it's cost) ULTRALISKS CANNOT FLY. It is a weak(at best) comparison.
I think that hellbats make tvt a little boring for the moment, but I can't think of a change that wouldn't impact all the other matchups, which don't need a hellbat change.
On June 10 2013 05:09 Orcasgt24 wrote: I think they should just nerf the medivac boost. Do not let units load or unload from a boosted medivac and don't let the medivac be able to heal.. Add a cancel boost option to the medivac though.
Why???? Is there a problem with terran in general? TvP is already hard. TvZ lategame is already hard. You have no idea how big a speedvac nerf would be. Do we want WOL terran back or what? After reading the comments, I feel like this is what people are saying:
Dear Blizzard, thanks for our buffs, but we want the new terran stuff to be nerfed. This way we can play against WOL terrans, with our upgraded protoss and zerg race. Because you knew, terrans were doing "so well" at the end of WOL.
Well, you terrans, were surely not complaining at the beginning of WoL. Hmm, I wonder why?
I said this in another thread, but you're just as bad these zergs defending their OP mutas(vs P, anyway)
You never really needed the medivac buff to begin with and the same can be said mutas.
This hellbat unit is just another warhound in disguise.
What has the beginning of WOL to do with this? We don't need a medivac buff, but meanwhile our protoss opponent got a nexus cannon so we can't shine in the midgame (like we should do). Our zerg opponents got better ultralisks, cheaper burrow tech, blind cloud, etc. So again, we don't need the medivac buff?
YOU brought up the END of WoL. As for the nexus cannon, it was supposed to keep P from dying to T all ins. (And it doesn't do that well for it's cost) ULTRALISKS CANNOT FLY. It is a weak(at best) comparison.
Lol nexus cannon is not good at stopping allins for its cost? Are you fucking joking.
Please uninstall starcraft and never set foot in it again.
On June 10 2013 05:47 sparklyresidue wrote: I think that hellbats make tvt a little boring for the moment, but I can't think of a change that wouldn't impact all the other matchups, which don't need a hellbat change.
turrets can attack ground units that are mechanical and biological
I don't want them to nerf the hellbat. I want them to buff stuff around the hellbat. Dota 2 had a bunch of OP heroes. The response, they buffed everyone else is subtle ways and it all better now(or at least there is new broken shit to find).
Nerfs are bad and just make people stop using the unit until they can find a weird role for it to fill. Buffing other units is better. If hellbats drops rock to hard, buff all the base defenses with extra damage for mechanical air units. Do anything but hard nerf the unit.
Hellbats shouldn't be healable by medivacs, that would make the drops FAR more manageable, and it would make hellbats useless in bio compositions = win
It should jsut not get healed...I think that is the main problem with them and why the drop is so powerful. Take away the heal and it not as bad anymore.
On June 10 2013 05:50 SheaR619 wrote: It should jsut not get healed...I think that is the main problem with them and why the drop is so powerful. Take away the heal and it not as bad anymore.
The heal is needed in bio TvP to handle swarms of Zealots with superior upgrades coming from unpunishable super fast forges.
EPT
