EPTHellbats Review - Page 10
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Hitch-22
Canada753 Posts
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BamBam
745 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Besides this Hellvacs are extremely hard to control and most of the time just deal damage if your opponent messes up. They are also easy to hold off unless you go for aggression yourself. So it is more a problem of Terrans being used to always attack which carries over into TvT. It is funny though that the 4 slots made Hellbats so much cooler together with Medivacs. But I guess Medivacs will soon need an upgrade for the speed boost. Just like Mutas will need an upgrade for the regene. Oh wait they want to remove upgrades and make early game defense super hard instead of super easy like in WoL. And from the recent Mvp vs Innovation series I would say Hellvacs are not worth it, there Mvp got ahead because of them, but got behind as soon as he tried to do something on his own, which thinned out his defense. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:32 FeyFey wrote: We got our dark swarm version in PDD and now we have our Reaver drops in form of Hellvacs. Take this BW Zerg and Protoss ! Besides this Hellvacs are extremely hard to control and most of the time just deal damage if your opponent messes up. They are also easy to hold off unless you go for aggression yourself. So it is more a problem of Terrans being used to always attack which carries over into TvT. It is funny though that the 4 slots made Hellbats so much cooler together with Medivacs. But I guess Medivacs will soon need an upgrade for the speed boost. Just like Mutas will need an upgrade for the regene. Oh wait they want to remove upgrades and make early game defense super hard instead of super easy like in WoL. And from the recent Mvp vs Innovation series I would say Hellvacs are not worth it, there Mvp got ahead because of them, but got behind as soon as he tried to do something on his own, which thinned out his defense. Can you explain that? | ||
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Nightsz
Canada398 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:32 FeyFey wrote: We got our dark swarm version in PDD and now we have our Reaver drops in form of Hellvacs. Take this BW Zerg and Protoss ! Besides this Hellvacs are extremely hard to control and most of the time just deal damage if your opponent messes up. They are also easy to hold off unless you go for aggression yourself. So it is more a problem of Terrans being used to always attack which carries over into TvT. It is funny though that the 4 slots made Hellbats so much cooler together with Medivacs. But I guess Medivacs will soon need an upgrade for the speed boost. Just like Mutas will need an upgrade for the regene. Oh wait they want to remove upgrades and make early game defense super hard instead of super easy like in WoL. And from the recent Mvp vs Innovation series I would say Hellvacs are not worth it, there Mvp got ahead because of them, but got behind as soon as he tried to do something on his own, which thinned out his defense. You heard it here first folks, medivac + hellbat combo will now be termed "hellvacs" | ||
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Tarheels
United States55 Posts
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:24 Steel wrote: I think Hellbat drops are a problem in both TvT and ZvT and it's time to do something about it. Last night's TvTs could of been much more entertaining if it wasn't so centered on dropping hellbats. It's interesting once in a while but when it's so strong that it's always used, you know there must be a problem. I'm inclined to agree. I thought it was dull as hell and a little bit sad to watch a constant stream of hellbat drops. There's very little investment, very little micro and even at the highest level, eventually one of the pulls isn't quite good enough and the games effectively over. I don't think its entertaining at all. Its the early blue flame helion thing again only worse, its actually easier to do. At best the micro is scooping them back up and boosting to where the scv's ran to and redropping. There's next to no investment so there's little reason to try too hard to get them out. I think that damage cone is way too big, the splash ends up being absolutely huge and a flank does next to nothing to negate it. Anything that makes micro pointless is bad IMO. I also don't think the medivac healing adds anything other than in those silly situations where you see a single hellbat sitting there duking it out with a stream of roaches... that just feels silly. | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
but a WORSE hellion with melee range and slow movement speed. The hellbat is *supposed* to own if it can reach its target. And you know what counters hellbats? Oddly enough, the hellion. leave it be | ||
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DjSweetBazz
Sweden172 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Empirimancer
Canada1024 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:39 D_K_night wrote: every single one of you guys proposing ridiculous nerfs to the hellbat, reduce the unit right back to what it was originally - the hellion. but a WORSE hellion with melee range and slow movement speed. The hellbat is *supposed* to own if it can reach its target. And you know what counters hellbats? Oddly enough, the hellion. leave it be Indeed. The ONLY nerf that seems legitimate at this point is maybe a movement speed nerf. The hellbat drops are "all in" when a turret is up, since it's a guaranteed one way trip. In other matchups, they simply don't do enough damage to everything else to be worth it. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On June 10 2013 03:47 habermas wrote: I was hoping for a genuine Hellbat review. Here's mine: Hellbat - 9/10 Out of all the units in Terran's arsenal Hellbat has to be my favorite. It's cheap, doesn't cost any gas, can be produced quickly with a reactor add-on, does splash damage and can be healed by medivacs just like bio units. Hellbats also do bonus damage to light units which makes them just perfect for killing enemy workers. One of strategies I often use, with a great success, is dropping Hellbats in enemy mineral lines. Even if I lose the hellbats and sometimes the medivac I usually come out on top as it's really difficult to prevent worker losses, even with static defense. This way I don't have to worry about complex strategic decisions or advanced tactics as I can just annoy my enemies to death with constant hellion drops. I'm not giving Hellbat a perfect 10, because it's a bit too slow and can't shoot air, which is something Blizzard should consider adding in the future patches. Overall it's an amazing unit though, which has greatly improved my winrates in all matchups. Thanks Blizzard! I laughed, this was pretty funny. Though, +1 at someone mentioning that mineral line drops in TvT are the same as in the other two match ups | ||
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OfficeBrahzz
121 Posts
- Half the cargo size of collossi and immortals, allowing warp prism's to carry 4 immortals or 2 collossi - Allow overseers to become dropships. Make overseers super dropships containing 16supply of drop space (16 lings, or 8 roaches). I garuntee zergs would use this to a great benefit at lair and start doing drop / tactical offensive strategies if their overseers could become dropships. also i would just like to add I feel hellbats are perfectly balanced in their lategame battle capability, they are only a little dumb in drops. | ||
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Hitch-22
Canada753 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:44 OfficeBrahzz wrote: instead of nerfing hellbats, I elect to give protoss and zerg equally powerful drop harassment abilities - Half the cargo size of collossi and immortals, allowing warp prism's to carry 4 immortals or 2 collossi - Allow overseers to become dropships. Make overseers super dropships containing 16supply of drop space (16 lings, or 8 roaches). I garuntee zergs would use this to a great benefit at lair and start doing drop / tactical offensive strategies if their overseers could become dropships. also i would just like to add I feel hellbats are perfectly balanced in their lategame battle capability, they are only a little dumb in drops. You haven't tried to bio vs mech in TvT then... If your opponent goes hellbats in TvT you now HAVE to go hellbats, there is no rauder combination with tanks more superior then hellbat/tank. The only other alternative is sky terran. | ||
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OfficeBrahzz
121 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:46 Hitch-22 wrote: You haven't tried to bio vs mech in TvT then... If your opponent goes hellbats in TvT you now HAVE to go hellbats, there is no rauder combination with tanks more superior then hellbat/tank. The only other alternative is sky terran. im thinking if hellbats couldnt be dropped, they wouldnt be so powerful in TvT. i dont know the solution for hellbats in TvT im mostly thinking about hellbats in ZvT and PvT, which is why I decided to change the matchup by BUFFING the other 2 races drop capability instead of nerfing terrans | ||
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Hitch-22
Canada753 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:48 OfficeBrahzz wrote: im thinking if hellbats couldnt be dropped, they wouldnt be so powerful in TvT. i dont know the solution for hellbats in TvT im mostly thinking about hellbats in ZvT and PvT, which is why I decided to change the matchup by BUFFING the other 2 races drop capability instead of nerfing terrans You were serious with those suggestions... ? | ||
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pivor
Poland198 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:46 Hitch-22 wrote: You haven't tried to bio vs mech in TvT then... If your opponent goes hellbats in TvT you now HAVE to go hellbats, there is no rauder combination with tanks more superior then hellbat/tank. The only other alternative is sky terran. Mech was always superior to Bio in face to face battles. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
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OfficeBrahzz
121 Posts
On June 10 2013 04:49 Hitch-22 wrote: You were serious with those suggestions... ? sure. Im only talking about PvT and ZvT in PvT and ZvT, hellbats are extremely powerful in drop tactics. Many want to NERF the hellbat, but I feel hellbats are balanced in armies and the power comes from the drop tactics. So my solution was, instead of nerfing the hellbat, why not simply buff the drop tactics of the other 2 races. I buffed their ability to drop by making it cheaper. Now instead of needing 2 warp prisms to drop 4 immortals, you only need 1 prism to drop 4 immortals, so thats 200 mineral cheaper investment to drop a certain amount of power. Or for zerg instead of spending 300/300 to drop some units, you only spend 50/50. | ||
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