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On June 01 2013 07:35 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +Alex @Axeltoss 7m
Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv Looks like there will be more than one stream after all.
awesome!
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On June 01 2013 07:35 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +Alex @Axeltoss 7m
Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv Looks like there will be more than one stream after all.
Thank goodness. If there's one thing MLG has going for them its Axeltoss/Axslav standing up for common sense.
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On June 01 2013 07:21 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:18 ratbert wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money. TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think It is a ridiculous sentiment to state that an industry is not profitable because some of the businesses involved failed. If this were the case, the industry would not exist. Investors are not stupid with their money. People do not continually invest in and sponsor Starcraft 2 because it is "not a profitable industry". The argument being made here is akin to a Pizza Shop owner going out of business and declaring: "Pizza is not a profitable industry, as I went out of business". I don't think there's anything wrong with being in debt at the beginning of a business. And I agree that some large tournaments may be running on investor money - investors who strongly believe they will be getting a return on their money. But to assert that the entire industry is not profitable (the assertion was "SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol") is not a viable statement. Lots of companies have made lots of money on SC2 esports. The fact that yo're posting on a website like that of Team Liquid, which has benefited greatly from SC e-sports and is no doubt profitable, is ironic and humorous to me.
It is about as reasonable as your argument that MLG is fleecing Blizzard and the community because they have a monopoly and just cutting back on production because they are "a greedy company".
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On June 01 2013 07:37 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:35 imallinson wrote:Alex @Axeltoss 7m
Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv Looks like there will be more than one stream after all. Thank goodness. If there's one thing MLG has going for them its Axeltoss/Axslav standing up for common sense.
I love how you assume that it was just Axeltoss/Axslav standing up to the man and telling Sunny how it is.
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If you bought a competitor pass for MLG Anaheim, but may not be able to attend, please let me know! Trying to help a good friend of mine get his hand on a pass, as he has been training really hard in anticipation for this tournament. Willing to pay a marked up price! Just shoot me a PM if you cannot attend/want to sell your pass.
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On June 01 2013 07:25 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:23 Ercster wrote:On June 01 2013 07:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable. Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable? Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are. Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved. Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
Korean leagues are an entirely separate phenomenon from the boom in foreign tournaments that has accompanied SC2. BW was a national sport in Korea. Not so much in the west.
If you really think the tournaments are recouping tens of millions through ads a d sponsors you're just misinformed. They are financed by investors with the hope of becoming profitable in the future. That hope depends on viewership increasing. We've maxed out at 100k (peak) even after the release of an expansion.
And to be clear, I'm talking only about tournament organizers here, so I shouldn't say no venture in esports is profitable. Though even among teams and players, only a lucky few make money. You think Clarity is making money? Um no, they're operating a team house and their best players (code B koreans) get like 900 viewers max on stream.
And to SCST - this is hardly a new argument I'm making here.
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On June 01 2013 07:38 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:21 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:18 ratbert wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money. TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think It is a ridiculous sentiment to state that an industry is not profitable because some of the businesses involved failed. If this were the case, the industry would not exist. Investors are not stupid with their money. People do not continually invest in and sponsor Starcraft 2 because it is "not a profitable industry". The argument being made here is akin to a Pizza Shop owner going out of business and declaring: "Pizza is not a profitable industry, as I went out of business". I don't think there's anything wrong with being in debt at the beginning of a business. And I agree that some large tournaments may be running on investor money - investors who strongly believe they will be getting a return on their money. But to assert that the entire industry is not profitable (the assertion was "SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol") is not a viable statement. Lots of companies have made lots of money on SC2 esports. The fact that yo're posting on a website like that of Team Liquid, which has benefited greatly from SC e-sports and is no doubt profitable, is ironic and humorous to me. It is about as reasonable as your argument that MLG is fleecing Blizzard and the community because they have a monopoly and just cutting back on production because they are "a greedy company".
Hmm, I got the wrong impression from you. What's the point of making a dig at someone without substance, Plansix? I thought you made some reasonable points earlier to which I gladly conceded, while countering with some of my own. Rather than debating these, it seems you'd rather just make a generalized statement along the lines of: "you're unreasonable". When in fact, I am very reasonable and open-minded.
On the other hand, most of your points were easily countered. I've noticed that when people start attempting to get personal, make short quips and digs without weight, it's usually because they don't feel confident in their argument.
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On June 01 2013 07:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:37 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:35 imallinson wrote:Alex @Axeltoss 7m
Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv Looks like there will be more than one stream after all. Thank goodness. If there's one thing MLG has going for them its Axeltoss/Axslav standing up for common sense. I love how you assume that it was just Axeltoss/Axslav standing up to the man and telling Sunny how it is.
This is definitely an assumption. I'm biased towards this particular casting duo and imagine them coming to the communities rescue. Also, I'd be willing to bet that it's true. 
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On June 01 2013 07:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable. Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Profitable for KeSPA certainly
It's essential to understand the sheer scale of the companies that sponsor kespa teams. They aren't companies like monster and razer and twitch, they are conglomerates. Look here. That's a HUGE number of companies. SKT had a profit of $13 BILLION dollars in 2010, and that pales in comparison to Samsung making $247.5 billion in 2011. KeSPA teams can afford spending a few million USD (if even that) on a team.
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On June 01 2013 07:45 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:38 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 07:21 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:18 ratbert wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money. TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think It is a ridiculous sentiment to state that an industry is not profitable because some of the businesses involved failed. If this were the case, the industry would not exist. Investors are not stupid with their money. People do not continually invest in and sponsor Starcraft 2 because it is "not a profitable industry". The argument being made here is akin to a Pizza Shop owner going out of business and declaring: "Pizza is not a profitable industry, as I went out of business". I don't think there's anything wrong with being in debt at the beginning of a business. And I agree that some large tournaments may be running on investor money - investors who strongly believe they will be getting a return on their money. But to assert that the entire industry is not profitable (the assertion was "SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol") is not a viable statement. Lots of companies have made lots of money on SC2 esports. The fact that yo're posting on a website like that of Team Liquid, which has benefited greatly from SC e-sports and is no doubt profitable, is ironic and humorous to me. It is about as reasonable as your argument that MLG is fleecing Blizzard and the community because they have a monopoly and just cutting back on production because they are "a greedy company". Hmm, I got the wrong impression from you. What's the point of making a dig at someone without substance, Plansix? I thought you made some reasonable points earlier to which I gladly conceded, while countering with some of my own. Rather than debating these, it seems you'd rather just make a generalized statement along the lines of: "you're unreasonable". When in fact, I am very reasonable and open-minded. On the other hand, most of your points were easily countered. I've noticed that when people start attempting to get personal, make short quips and digs without weight, it's usually because they don't feel confident in their argument.
I am confident in my argument that MLG is going to put on a good event and complain to much on the internet. I don't really want to argue, because I remembered that arguing about this is silly. None of us have inside information on the financing of MGL or any proof of how much production they are putting it. I'm going to go get some froyo.
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On June 01 2013 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:25 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:23 Ercster wrote:On June 01 2013 07:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:
[quote]
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable. Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable? Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are. Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved. Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable. Korean leagues are an entirely separate phenomenon from the boom in foreign tournaments that has accompanied SC2. BW was a national sport in Korea. Not so much in the west. If you really think the tournaments are recouping tens of millions through ads a d sponsors you're just misinformed. They are financed by investors with the hope of becoming profitable in the future. That hope depends on viewership increasing. We've maxed out at 100k (peak) even after the release of an expansion. And to be clear, I'm talking only about tournament organizers here, so I shouldn't say no venture in esports is profitable. Though even among teams and players, only a lucky few make money. You think Clarity is making money? Um no, they're operating a team house and their best players (code B koreans) get like 900 viewers max on stream. And to SCST - this is hardly a new argument I'm making here.
It changes things quite dramatically now that you've clarified/altered your original statement. I do think that there are SC2 tournaments that both recoup their losses and are profitable. But I also agree with you, that many tournaments (including MLG) often/likely run a debt until they can become profitable. We can both agree then that SC2 is a viable business industry and that large tournaments tend to have a more difficult time.
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Low prize pool and one stream? Man I would be SO hyped if it weren't for those two factors. We need more good 'ol open bracket tournaments.
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On June 01 2013 08:27 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Low prize pool and one stream? Man I would be SO hyped if it weren't for those two factors. We need more good 'ol open bracket tournaments.
Read the posts just before yours
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Hots release was 3 months ago...according to sc2rankings the weekly player base hasnt moved from 250k....so this is purely a financial decision from mlg. We should be happy hots is even there. As much as i hate to say this, perhaps mr Steven bonnell had a point? We may be the most passionate community, but we're nowhere near the largest revenue base for esports atm.
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People will complain about anything these days! Just be happy with what you get and move on.
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On June 01 2013 09:07 Hall0wed wrote:
People will complain about anything these days! Just be happy with what you get and move on.
yes, i am satisfied that we have team 8 instead of MBC and Oz and FOX
.....
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On June 01 2013 07:19 brieN wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 00:22 Shiori wrote:
One stream? Lower prize pool? No reservations for top level players? Uh....this could end very, very badly. they wanted it to be invite only and higher prize pool but blizzard so open bracket or no wcs points and so they countered with an open bracket and less money. bickering among partners is never good for viewers and players
source?
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Lets try to look at this from a logical perspective, though I, like a lot of people was first shocked by reading this. Lets consider the state of things.
First off the prize pool, while it is pretty hard to argue that a smaller prize pool is in any way positive MLG is partnered with Blizzard who has control over the largest "tournament or league" and if an MLG had a 25k first place while a WCS region only paid 20k, the legitimacy of that tournament comes into question. "Why compete in the highest league if I can possibly make more at tier 1 event." This isn't to say that the fact they are only using a 25k pool and only paying out prize money to 8th isn't a setback. Would it be better to pay out to say 16th place, obviously, but hey at least they are going out past 3rd or 4th place which a lot of Tier 2ish size events do.
Aside from the money lets look at the format. An open tournament is a lot better than the winter championship which was essentially an invite only tournament. Is 128 the right number? In my opinion 256 would have been a better number but that leads to more Pc's, more time and everything so lets get over that. Would it have been a good idea to at least invite the top 3 finishers from the last MLG and possibly 1 to 5 other top level players? Absolutely, but blizzard wants an "Open" which may lead to some more unknown players getting exposure so we have to deal with it. If things don't go well hopefully mistakes will be learned from.
We are in a world with WCS so that is going to be the highest paying and top level tournament as long as blizzard has a say. Is this going to kill SC2? Very unlikely. Is it going to make it better? That is yet to be seen. We are just going to have to see what happens and hope for the best.
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Does MLG have a link with the open bracket lineup for the Spring Championship for SC2?
EDIT: People who buy a Competitor Pass shares the same spectator pass privileges?
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On June 01 2013 08:03 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:41 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 07:25 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:23 Ercster wrote:On June 01 2013 07:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:
[quote]
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable. Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable? Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are. Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved. Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable. Korean leagues are an entirely separate phenomenon from the boom in foreign tournaments that has accompanied SC2. BW was a national sport in Korea. Not so much in the west. If you really think the tournaments are recouping tens of millions through ads a d sponsors you're just misinformed. They are financed by investors with the hope of becoming profitable in the future. That hope depends on viewership increasing. We've maxed out at 100k (peak) even after the release of an expansion. And to be clear, I'm talking only about tournament organizers here, so I shouldn't say no venture in esports is profitable. Though even among teams and players, only a lucky few make money. You think Clarity is making money? Um no, they're operating a team house and their best players (code B koreans) get like 900 viewers max on stream. And to SCST - this is hardly a new argument I'm making here. We can both agree then that SC2 is a viable business industry
It's highly questionable bro. EG and Liquid are profitable...who else? You brought up Red Bull - there's a reason they're not doing any more tournaments. I wouldn't invest a dime in this industry lol.
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