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On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
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On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
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"StarCraft II Competitor, Spectator and VIP passes for the MLG Spring Championship go on sale Friday, May 31 at 5pm ET in the MLG Store."
So what's going on? I get they were reaching out to top players first, that's understandable, but am I the only one around here wondering if they sold out or started selling to the public? I just woke up 15 mins ago and read the news but see no way to purchase a players pass yet.
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On June 01 2013 06:33 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 06:26 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:15 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 06:03 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 05:55 Plansix wrote:On June 01 2013 05:51 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote:
They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward. I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone. The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this? People are slightly more reasonable and don't compare MLG to an event run out of a guys apartment, a massive LAN that would go on with or without SC2 and a production company that has been running SC2 in Korea since launch. Those European tournaments that you seem diminish with a cheeky attitude actually have the same prize pool as MLG Anaheim, and neither are intended to be the Premier European event. It's likely that they both will have much better production, as well. Not only is it reasonable to compare them in my opinion, it's more than reasonable to criticize MLG for downgrading their production significantly. Whether you agree with it or not, the Starcraft tournament scene has been destroyed in the Americas. I didn't have to happen, and it's not the fault of WCS. MLG was given the key to putting on a great production for WCS and a great premier tournament. Both are appearing to be very lackluster. I also blame Blizzard somewhat for not being cautious enough when IPL went down, and for allowing NASL to disappear. They really put everything into MLG without considering that they might be a typical greedy organization that would take advantage of their monopoly. Now we're seeing the results. My attitude is one that doesn't freak out every time MLG makes an announcement. Every time they put on an event, people lose their minds and jump up and down about how horrible everything is. Last time, people whined because it was an invite only event. This time, its an open bracket only and people whine that their aren't enough invites of top Korean players. People are grumpy that MLG isn't handing out four times as much as Dreamhack, who somehow gets none of this shit, ever. And me, I am just pumped it is on a weekend I don't have to go to a wedding and my friends are in town. Seems like a reasonable post to me. However, it is a very big deal to see the only LAN tournament that we know of thus far in the Americas being ridiculously cheap relative to their past, after getting the WCS bid . . . after NASL and IPL get run out of SC2. Dreamhack doesn't get as much shit because, as mentioned previously, there are tons of high quality tournaments to watch in Europe and Dreamhack puts on a great production regardless. On the other hand, MLG is the tournament in the Americas at the moment and they are clearly taking advantage that position. That's what pisses me and (probably) a fair few others off about this situation. I just want to see them try harder. But they have no reason to try harder. There isn't any competition. We know nothing about MLG's situation at the moment. Sundance said on SotG that MLG was still in discussions with Blizzard as recently as the day before SC2 at Anaheim was announced. Totalbiscuit said that Blizzard put a $10,000 prize cap on Shoutcraft America. I personally think it's likely MLG wanted a bigger event, while Blizzard is trying to regulate prize pools so that they correspond to WCS points and keep WCS as the biggest event.
It's good to know that WCS has actually LOWERED the amount of money available to players.
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I for one like it..
I mean, there is so much going on right now with WCS. I think anything bigger would be overkill.
and the prize money.. considering there is now wcs price money I understand that there is not more on the line here.
I also think that sc2 is at a point where it will not grow much further. It's all about keeping it at an healthy level now. To much content can cause fatigue and turn people away.
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What I want to know is which players will be in attendance. I went last year and had a great time but if it's mainly a bunch of random NA players this time around then I've got no interest in spending the money to make the trip again.
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On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of cost that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? Imagine paying a few dozen (or more, I don't know) employees, the venue, computers, equipment, travel, etc etc.. it's a massive amount of cash. Unless you're doing the books for one of these companies, you have no room to say it's profitable.
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On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money.
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On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
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when will we know the map pool?
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On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money.
TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think
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On June 01 2013 00:22 Shiori wrote:
One stream? Lower prize pool? No reservations for top level players? Uh....this could end very, very badly.
they wanted it to be invite only and higher prize pool but blizzard so open bracket or no wcs points and so they countered with an open bracket and less money. bickering among partners is never good for viewers and players
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On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
If I'm not mistaken, Sundance has said on several occasions that they aren't making a profit. The goal is to get Esports big enough where the investment that they've made will start making these businesses profitable. And not making a profit doesn't mean that the company is a failure. My dad owns a company that for the past 4 years hasn't been profitable, yet they are still able to stay in business and will be able to for the foreseeable future.
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On June 01 2013 07:18 ratbert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money. TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think
It is a ridiculous sentiment to state that an industry is not profitable because some of the businesses involved failed. If this were the case, the industry would not exist. Investors are not stupid with their money. People do not continually invest in and sponsor Starcraft 2 because it is "not a profitable industry".
The argument being made here is akin to a Pizza Shop owner going out of business and declaring: "Pizza is not a profitable industry, as I went out of business".
I don't think there's anything wrong with being in debt at the beginning of a business. And I agree that some large tournaments may be running on investor money - investors who strongly believe they will be getting a return on their money.
But to assert that the entire industry is not profitable (the assertion was "SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol") is not a viable statement. Lots of companies have made lots of money on SC2 esports. The fact that yo're posting on a website like that of Team Liquid, which has benefited greatly from SC e-sports and is no doubt profitable, is ironic and humorous to me.
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On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
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On June 01 2013 07:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable. Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
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On June 01 2013 07:23 Ercster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable. Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable? Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved.
Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
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On June 01 2013 07:25 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:23 Ercster wrote:On June 01 2013 07:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote:
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG. What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable. Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable? Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are. Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved. Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
That's not entirely true, though. As I, and others, pointed out earlier, companies can survive without being profitable. Also, Korea isn't the best example. They LITERALLY were able to profitable because the whole country got on board with BW. With SC2, were trying to get the whole world to get on board, not just a single country. This is going to take significantly more time and money. Which means more time of not being profitable, but that's how a company grows.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Alex @Axeltoss 7m
Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv
Looks like there will be more than one stream after all.
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On June 01 2013 07:32 Ercster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 07:25 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:23 Ercster wrote:On June 01 2013 07:21 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:17 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:14 Zenbrez wrote:On June 01 2013 07:10 SCST wrote:On June 01 2013 07:05 Doodsmack wrote:On June 01 2013 06:29 SCST wrote:
[quote]
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash". Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors. Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves. Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money? My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all. Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary. You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable. You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable. Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable? Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are. Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved. Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable. That's not entirely true, though. As I, and others, pointed out earlier, companies can survive without being profitable. Also, Korea isn't the best example. They LITERALLY were able to profitable because the whole country got on board with BW. With SC2, were trying to get the whole world to get on board, not just a single country.
Think we agree that some companies can survive without being profitable. However, that doesn't mean all companies in the industry are doing that. It doesn't even mean that most companies in SC2 e-sports are doing that.
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