We are excited to announce that the MLG Spring Championship in Anaheim, CA from June 28-30 will feature a World Championship Series (WCS) Tier 1 128-Player StarCraft II®: Heart of the Swarm™ open bracket tournament with $25,000 in prizes on the line.
In addition, the top 16 finishers will receive player ranking points in the WCS. The points earned at MLG Spring Championship will impact the year-long chase for seeds at the StarCraft II World Championship at BlizzCon®.
StarCraft II Competitor, Spectator and VIP passes for the MLG Spring Championship go on sale Friday, May 31 at 5pm ET.
Its too bad they don't have the 6 stream content that they used to have. I am glad they implemented an open bracket I just hope they broadcast the games and story lines that will come out of it.
As a viewer I'm kind of glad this is going to be a smaller event, there's just simply not enough time in the day to watch everything with the different WCS events and streams and stuff.
So they announced it a month in advance and seems like the teams didn't know sooner too. So, how many players will actually come ? I wouldn't be surprised if it's the weakest MLG event in a LONG time.
On June 01 2013 00:19 Zaphid wrote: So they announced it a month in advance and seems like the teams didn't know sooner too. So, how many players will actually come ? I wouldn't be surprised if it's the weakest MLG event in a LONG time.
I'm not going to lie, I'm really happy to hear they are going back to open bracket. Yes the last invite tournament made for some great games, but the open bracket story is what makes me excited for these events. This one will undoubtedly be a little underwhelming because of the situation and the short notice, but hopefully they stick with it and we're back to normal for the next one.
It's basically DreamHack Open in terms of scale and prize, but without the 230984390 partner streams for lower rounds?
I think as long as they're going in this direction it could really help to have some partner streams (or self produced sub-streams) for the lower round matches, though it would depend on what the player list looks like.
On June 01 2013 00:13 sitromit wrote: 25K? That used to be the prize for 1st place, now it's the entire prize pool? Wow...
Wasn't the old MLG system like having 5000 $ for 1st place and the big Prize Pool at the End of the season ?
That was a completely different system. It hasn't been like that since 2012.
It is a good amount of money for a prize pool and reasonable. Just because it is less money than last year doesn't mean anything. I am just happy they are going to have an open bracket again.
All this negativity seems to miss the point that they are putting up an open tournament in-addition to what is already happening with WCS. It seems like a good opportunity for lesser players to do well and make a name for themselves. Comparing the prize pool against previous MLGs when WCS didn't even exist doesn't seem like the right way to view things.
On June 01 2013 00:23 KadaverBB wrote: Aaaw, only 1 stream
I bet they couldn't get the quality casters they wanted to do two streams. Personally, I would rather they focus on one stream, limit down time and show good games. It is better than switching through 4 different streams of questionable quality.
I don't know why people are happy about full open bracket like this. They could have at least had separate group stage for invites and open bracket for sign-ups feeding into a championship bracket like old MLGs. All this is going to give is shitty 1 sided games until the latest rounds and bad players trying to all-in every game hoping they can get a lucky win.
Not the most awe inspiring prizes/stream numbers, but I'm glad it's there and will definitely watch as much of it as I can Plus Tier 1 status for WCS ain't bad at all.
On June 01 2013 00:26 pwei wrote: All this negativity seems to miss the point that they are putting up an open tournament in-addition to what is already happening with WCS. It seems like a good opportunity for lesser players to do well and make a name for themselves. Comparing the prize pool against previous MLGs when WCS didn't even exist doesn't seem like the right way to view things.
Nailed it
But hey, people are quick to bitch.
I'm glad there is an open tournament and people get a chance to qualify and play on the big stage, or at least play against established legends of the game.
More Starcraft 2 is a good thing, not a bad thing!
Will Extended Series rear it's ugly head or is it gone for good because it's a WCS event? I'm glad it's an Open Bracket(no favoritism) though you have to wonder why only one stream. I have a feeling it has to do with MLG not being happy that they couldn't do their own format with their own invites and still be a WCS Tier-1 event. This is a way to do the "bare minimum" and still make it a WCS Tier-1 event to get big names and not be branded a "lesser" event. Though with how late it has been announced it's going to be interesting to see who shows up.
I'm sure the event will be great either way for the spectator even though their is less "choice". I just hope they have plans for downtime between matches. Especially with only one stream...
Yeah, I think its great to just have an open bracket back. Of course I am with everyone who hates how they have had to wait until the last minute to announce so many details, but oh well. Its a pretty decent (not single-elim, not 64 players) open bracket, which is what everyone was demanding. People should get over it and be happy about it.
The one thing that is an effect of it being announced so late, and I do wonder if it was someone's intention, is that it will make it tougher for international (aka Korean), and average scrub players to attend this late in the game. I will be interested to see if this ends up overall as a good, primarily NA tournament.
Also, I will mention that Aware Gaming is definitely recruiting good players for this and willing to help with some support . So get in touch asap, if you are serious.
every other mlg event is worse than the last. Its really going downhill hardcore What other major event has one stream? We will be enjoying open bracket via liquidpedia, yahooooo.
On June 01 2013 00:18 BronzeKnee wrote: There was a time when MLG had 4 streams... it was amazing.
1 stream is a huge disappointment.
Not like they sinchronized in a way that allowed to see more content properly that in they only had 1. If they cut downtimes they should be able to show us almost the same.
On June 01 2013 00:29 sitromit wrote: This really sucks.
I don't know why people are happy about full open bracket like this. They could have at least had separate group stage for invites and open bracket for sign-ups feeding into a championship bracket like old MLGs. All this is going to give is shitty 1 sided games until the latest rounds and bad players trying to all-in every game hoping they can get a lucky win.
They can't use invites because they may not get WCS points if they do and they have to have an open bracket to get WSC points. With no previous non-invite event this year for HotS, they have no ability to seed people into the groups stage fairly.
Also, MLG has said that running open brackets for SC2 cost a lot with little pay off. It is hard to stream the games with good production and even harder to get them on all done in a reasonable period of time. I am surprised they even have one at this event, personally.
1 out of 8 players that show up will get WCS points. That's a pretty high amount given that everyone starts on even footing and my grandma could play if she bought a competitor pass fast enough. I'm worried about the implications of this format. Hopefully it turns out better than what I'm envisioning.
haha if they show games on a reasonable rate they show as much games with 1 stream than they used to with 4 also if there isnt a good pricepool, means not the top koreans are coming means the only thing that made mlg attractive before is now gone
On June 01 2013 00:29 sitromit wrote: This really sucks.
I don't know why people are happy about full open bracket like this. They could have at least had separate group stage for invites and open bracket for sign-ups feeding into a championship bracket like old MLGs. All this is going to give is shitty 1 sided games until the latest rounds and bad players trying to all-in every game hoping they can get a lucky win.
They can't use invites because they may not get WCS points if they do and they have to have an open bracket to get WSC points. With no previous non-invite event this year for HotS, they have no ability to seed people into the groups stage fairly.
Also, MLG has said that running open brackets for SC2 cost a lot with little pay off. It is hard to stream the games with good production and even harder to get them on all done in a reasonable period of time. I am surprised they even have one at this event, personally.
Actually MLGAdam said on Reddit that you only need to have 25% of the tournament be open bracket (and it can be online) to get WCS points. So the decision to not have groups/invites was an MLG decision.
The prize pool is lowers because, according to Adam, they're shelling out 100k for WCS a few weeks before. I was under the impression Blizzard paid for WCS, though?
is this where they are going to have the s1 finals for WCS? or is that happening in the NY studio...
I feel like the scaled down event will be more for the "little guys". It will make less top Koreans/EU guys want to come over for it. Meaning it will most likely be shitty games. Oh well at least they gave the open bracket everyone wanted I guess.
On June 01 2013 00:29 sitromit wrote: This really sucks.
I don't know why people are happy about full open bracket like this. They could have at least had separate group stage for invites and open bracket for sign-ups feeding into a championship bracket like old MLGs. All this is going to give is shitty 1 sided games until the latest rounds and bad players trying to all-in every game hoping they can get a lucky win.
They can't use invites because they may not get WCS points if they do and they have to have an open bracket to get WSC points. With no previous non-invite event this year for HotS, they have no ability to seed people into the groups stage fairly.
Also, MLG has said that running open brackets for SC2 cost a lot with little pay off. It is hard to stream the games with good production and even harder to get them on all done in a reasonable period of time. I am surprised they even have one at this event, personally.
They could have used invites if they wanted to, they chose not to. From reddit:
MrMLGAdam
Not true at all. Only 25% of the spots need to be 'open' for Tier 1, and open can be via online qualifiers.
nice prizepool WCS completely fucked everything up now that it gives WCS points organizers dont even have to put up decent prizepools to attract the best players GJ
On June 01 2013 00:29 sitromit wrote: This really sucks.
I don't know why people are happy about full open bracket like this. They could have at least had separate group stage for invites and open bracket for sign-ups feeding into a championship bracket like old MLGs. All this is going to give is shitty 1 sided games until the latest rounds and bad players trying to all-in every game hoping they can get a lucky win.
They can't use invites because they may not get WCS points if they do and they have to have an open bracket to get WSC points. With no previous non-invite event this year for HotS, they have no ability to seed people into the groups stage fairly.
Also, MLG has said that running open brackets for SC2 cost a lot with little pay off. It is hard to stream the games with good production and even harder to get them on all done in a reasonable period of time. I am surprised they even have one at this event, personally.
Actually MLGAdam said on Reddit that you only need to have 25% of the tournament be open bracket (and it can be online) to get WCS points. So the decision to not have groups/invites was an MLG decision.
The prize pool is lowers because, according to Adam, they're shelling out 100k for WCS a few weeks before. I was under the impression Blizzard paid for WCS, though?
I did not see that, but it makes sense. Blizzard is covering the 100K, but they don't deposit a fat amount of money in to the "MLG account for WCS" and tell them to take it out when necessary. The contract Between Blizzard and MLG likely has a set date when they get paid each season.
On June 01 2013 00:26 pwei wrote: All this negativity seems to miss the point that they are putting up an open tournament in-addition to what is already happening with WCS. It seems like a good opportunity for lesser players to do well and make a name for themselves. Comparing the prize pool against previous MLGs when WCS didn't even exist doesn't seem like the right way to view things.
Nailed it
But hey, people are quick to bitch.
I'm glad there is an open tournament and people get a chance to qualify and play on the big stage, or at least play against established legends of the game.
More Starcraft 2 is a good thing, not a bad thing!
People are quick to bitch because if you want to play/see offline SC2 event in USA, it's MLG only. NASL has no plans, IPL is dead. EU has ESL doing killer job with WCS, Dreamhack is also upping their game every event. MLG has no pressure to outdo itself. I'm sure their employees aren't going "meh, that'll do", but it's hard to shake that feeling.
On June 01 2013 00:29 sitromit wrote: This really sucks.
I don't know why people are happy about full open bracket like this. They could have at least had separate group stage for invites and open bracket for sign-ups feeding into a championship bracket like old MLGs. All this is going to give is shitty 1 sided games until the latest rounds and bad players trying to all-in every game hoping they can get a lucky win.
They can't use invites because they may not get WCS points if they do and they have to have an open bracket to get WSC points. With no previous non-invite event this year for HotS, they have no ability to seed people into the groups stage fairly.
Also, MLG has said that running open brackets for SC2 cost a lot with little pay off. It is hard to stream the games with good production and even harder to get them on all done in a reasonable period of time. I am surprised they even have one at this event, personally.
They could have used invites if they wanted to, they chose not to. From reddit:
Not true at all. Only 25% of the spots need to be 'open' for Tier 1, and open can be via online qualifiers.
MLG chose to do an Open bracket.
I just saw that and I am ok with no invites. I am tired of MLG catering to top players and Kespa by inviting them to events. Its a new game and everyone can struggle through the bracket like everyone else.
Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
GSL and OSL prize pool cut in half, number of tournaments reduced, MLG prize pool cut down to a 3rd of what it was. WCS is doing more harm than good, it looks like to the Korean scene.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Has it been confirmed then that the Season 3 Finals are in NA and EU is Season 2? I've not seen that announced...
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Has it been confirmed then that the Season 3 Finals are in NA and EU is Season 2? I've not seen that announced...
It was in the main WSC announcement. One final per region and then the Grand Finals at Blizzcon.
Hopefully the scheduling of an open bracket doesn't make this a painful tournament for the top players. (In terms of playing at midnight with the first game at 8:00 AM or something, not that the level of competition will be difficult.)
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Pretty much this. although MLG has quite a bit of homework to do because WCS NA was largely inferior to EU and KR.
Players and MLG are focused on WCS at the moment; thus, even if they did have multiple streams, Anaheim would not be as entertaining as the previous Dallas event.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Has it been confirmed then that the Season 3 Finals are in NA and EU is Season 2? I've not seen that announced...
It was in the main WSC announcement. One final per region and then the Grand Finals at Blizzcon.
But they never said which order the last two would be in?
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Pretty much this. although MLG has quite a bit of homework to do because WCS NA was largely inferior to EU and KR.
Well they are behind EU because they already had a studio and were producing LCS for Riot. It takes some time to get a good production staff and a studio that isn't also your office space. I am willing to give them one more season as long as they announce a better, upgraded studio and more production staff.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Has it been confirmed then that the Season 3 Finals are in NA and EU is Season 2? I've not seen that announced...
It was in the main WSC announcement. One final per region and then the Grand Finals at Blizzcon.
But they never said which order the last two would be in?
I am not 100% sure which one is for season 2 or 3, but I know the information was out there. EU for season 2 and NA for season 3 sounds right.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Pretty much this. although MLG has quite a bit of homework to do because WCS NA was largely inferior to EU and KR.
Well they are behind EU because they already had a studio and were producing LCS for Riot. It takes some time to get a good production staff and a studio that isn't also your office space. I am willing to give them one more season as long as they announce a better, upgraded studio and more production staff.
WCS EU studio and LCS studio were separate as far as I know and saw.
On June 01 2013 00:23 Waxangel wrote: It's basically DreamHack Open in terms of scale and prize, but without the 230984390 partner streams for lower rounds?
I think as long as they're going in this direction it could really help to have some partner streams (or self produced sub-streams) for the lower round matches, though it would depend on what the player list looks like.
I agree. Great to have open bracket back, but some broadcasting of those guys would be awesome.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Pretty much this. although MLG has quite a bit of homework to do because WCS NA was largely inferior to EU and KR.
Well they are behind EU because they already had a studio and were producing LCS for Riot. It takes some time to get a good production staff and a studio that isn't also your office space. I am willing to give them one more season as long as they announce a better, upgraded studio and more production staff.
WCS EU studio and LCS studio were separate as far as I know and saw.
Imo, maybe everyone is still looking at how MLG tournaments should work within WCS. WCS changed a lot of things in SCII and it will take Blizz and tournament organizers a while to polish everything. We should give it time and a chance to grow.
Also, didn't Sundance say in SOTG that this announcement is late because they were still working things out with Blizz or whoever?
On June 01 2013 00:23 Waxangel wrote: It's basically DreamHack Open in terms of scale and prize, but without the 230984390 partner streams for lower rounds?
I think as long as they're going in this direction it could really help to have some partner streams (or self produced sub-streams) for the lower round matches, though it would depend on what the player list looks like.
You know they CANT ask NASL as a partner stream... The viewers would choose them over MLG main stream ^^.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Straxis wrote: can someone explain what is a "Tier 1 WCS event? this is the first place where i've seen the term used
From what I can gather on liquipedia there are two tiers of non wcs events, T2 gives very few points while T1 gives much more (Not as much as WCS itself iirc leenock got 750 points for winning dreamhack which was T1)
It seems that MLG is shifting their SC2 focus to WCS. LANs are scaled down because less resources are being put into them and the main purposes of the MLG LAN is to provide WCS points.
On June 01 2013 00:55 bsdaemon wrote: Imo, maybe everyone is still looking at how MLG tournaments should work within WCS. WCS changed a lot of things in SCII and it will take Blizz and tournament organizers a while to polish everything. We should give it time and a chance to grow.
Also, didn't Sundance say in SOTG that this announcement is late because they were still working things out with Blizz or whoever?
It's clear from the last Inside the Game talking about this that it's really just MLG trying to be cheap asses about the open qualifiers. They wanted to do an invite only tournament but wanted the WCS points as well. They were told they can't have both. So instead of figuring out a solution expediently they apparently took weeks/months trying to barter some kind of deal with Blizzard and came up with this pathetic excuse for a tournament.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be pissed if Starcraft was on the decline viewership/sponsorship-wise, but it's not. It's on the freaking rise. There is no reason for this bullshit other than incompetence. MLG will get more viewers than ever before and they choose to gut their Starcraft presentation? 25 games only? They don't deserve any mercy on this, especially considering they won the bid for WCS that could have gone to a more deserving studio.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Pretty much this. although MLG has quite a bit of homework to do because WCS NA was largely inferior to EU and KR.
Well they are behind EU because they already had a studio and were producing LCS for Riot. It takes some time to get a good production staff and a studio that isn't also your office space. I am willing to give them one more season as long as they announce a better, upgraded studio and more production staff.
WCS EU studio and LCS studio were separate as far as I know and saw.
This is correct
I always assumed that both were in the same building, but I guess the production staff could just move.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Pretty much this. although MLG has quite a bit of homework to do because WCS NA was largely inferior to EU and KR.
Well they are behind EU because they already had a studio and were producing LCS for Riot. It takes some time to get a good production staff and a studio that isn't also your office space. I am willing to give them one more season as long as they announce a better, upgraded studio and more production staff.
Isnt MLG producing the LCS NA devision? I thought they did or atleast worked togheter with riot!
On June 01 2013 00:45 Negius wrote: Heh, I don't like it very much, but with the main focus on WCS from Blizzard, I can understand this desicionmaking. I think tournaments like MLG will have to step back a bit, to make sure the WCS system can grow (yes, I like the WCS system now, even with its flaws).
Maybe they will go all out during the WCS Global Finals Season 3. That seems to me a pretty good reason to keep the SC2 sector at MLG events a bit lower.
Remember, MLG is also a big part of WCS, so maybe it isn't cost-effective to host two large tournaments.
Pretty much this. although MLG has quite a bit of homework to do because WCS NA was largely inferior to EU and KR.
Well they are behind EU because they already had a studio and were producing LCS for Riot. It takes some time to get a good production staff and a studio that isn't also your office space. I am willing to give them one more season as long as they announce a better, upgraded studio and more production staff.
Isnt MLG producing the LCS NA devision? I thought they did or atleast worked togheter with riot!
No, Riot does that themselves with their own production company and studio.
On June 01 2013 01:03 odE wrote: Stop whining please, be glad they are offering a tournament. Excited to watch the tournament.. Wish there was more streams though.
Way to settle. HoTs has more viewership than Wings and people are preaching that we should be satisfied with a massive downgrade in production and effort by MLG. This is exactly the wrong approach to deal with this.
Oh my god. It breaks my heart to see all these complaints regarding another tourney which MLG is willingly setting up with a $25k (that's not a small number in any regard, face it our community has been spoiled) prizepool...
Utterly pathetic by MLG. Disgusted by this . . . please fire them Blizzard. For the love of God, can't you see these guys don't give a shit about Starcraft anymore?
Hire/support NASL for a big event, even WCS - at least it's clear they cared.
This is rediculous. The fact that they are establishing an open despite being constricted by the WCS system? If there is anyone you should lather this toxicity on it's the WCS system itself, not MLG.
The only valid complaint here IMO is the lack of partner streams for the lower rounds. Done right and it's a lot of great content <3.
On June 01 2013 00:26 pwei wrote: All this negativity seems to miss the point that they are putting up an open tournament in-addition to what is already happening with WCS. It seems like a good opportunity for lesser players to do well and make a name for themselves. Comparing the prize pool against previous MLGs when WCS didn't even exist doesn't seem like the right way to view things.
Nailed it
But hey, people are quick to bitch.
I'm glad there is an open tournament and people get a chance to qualify and play on the big stage, or at least play against established legends of the game.
More Starcraft 2 is a good thing, not a bad thing!
People are quick to bitch because if you want to play/see offline SC2 event in USA, it's MLG only. NASL has no plans, IPL is dead. EU has ESL doing killer job with WCS, Dreamhack is also upping their game every event. MLG has no pressure to outdo itself. I'm sure their employees aren't going "meh, that'll do", but it's hard to shake that feeling.
Whilst I can see what you are saying; the effect is lost on me. The biggest 'esports' event we have here, is about 500 people every 3 months at a LAN in a University Gym. Approx 40 of those people play SC2, and probably half of those again are Diamond or above.
The other option is to travel 3000+kms to the other side of the country to attend events which, would have the crowd capacity of a quiet day at GSTL.
Oh wait we have WCS Oceania once a year!
but hey, at least GSL is on at 5:00pm for us? :D
Just seems people are overly quick to be negative nancys.
On June 01 2013 01:05 Qwyn wrote: Oh my god. It breaks my heart to see all these complaints regarding another tourney which MLG is willingly setting up with a $25k (that's not a small number in any regard, face it our community has been spoiled) prizepool...
Utterly pathetic by MLG. Disgusted by this . . . please fire them Blizzard. For the love of God, can't you see these guys don't give a shit about Starcraft anymore?
Hire/support NASL for a big event, even WCS - at least it's clear they cared.
This is rediculous. The fact that they are establishing an open despite being constricted by the WCS system? If there is anyone you should lather this toxicity on it's the WCS system itself, not MLG.
The only valid complaint here IMO is the lack of partner streams for the lower rounds. Done right and it's a lot of great content <3.
Again settling. It's a massive downgrade from previous productions. WCS should have little to no bearing on this whatsoever. Please explain how WCS has an effect on MLG choosing to lower their prize pool massively and cut their streamed games to just 25?
On June 01 2013 01:05 Thinasy wrote: So no open bracket at the last MLG and people bitched and now there is an open bracket and people bitch about WCS and prize pool, never change
Well some people want an open bracket and a stream to each game that is played in the bracket, live. They also want unlimited production and invites for all of the best players, including the entire Kespa roster. Lucky, they are a small number of folks.
On June 01 2013 00:45 Straxis wrote: can someone explain what is a "Tier 1 WCS event? this is the first place where i've seen the term used
Players can earn points from tournaments or other non WCS events. Those events are broken down into "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" events. It just means that Tier 1 events give out much more points then a Tier 2 event.
On a side note, I do find it crazy that people are complaining so much. WCS has been nothing short of awesome. Great content every single day from both EU and AM on top of the already great daily content that was GSL, now WCS KR.
Then people complain like crazy that non-AM players are playing in the WCS AM, then praise Shoutcraft for having an AM only event, then complain that the MLG is going to be weak because it will be a majority of AM players only. Make up your mind people.
On top of all of that, players want those WCS badly. Getting into the final WCS event equals a lot of money. Huge prize pool for the end of the year tournament. Getting as many points from extra tournaments is huge. They will show up, despite the 25k prize pool.
(Btw, I don't work for MLG or anything, I just used (my username) as a gamertag when I first started attending Halo tournaments at MLG. I was awful.)
On June 01 2013 01:05 Qwyn wrote: Oh my god. It breaks my heart to see all these complaints regarding another tourney which MLG is willingly setting up with a $25k (that's not a small number in any regard, face it our community has been spoiled) prizepool...
Utterly pathetic by MLG. Disgusted by this . . . please fire them Blizzard. For the love of God, can't you see these guys don't give a shit about Starcraft anymore?
Hire/support NASL for a big event, even WCS - at least it's clear they cared.
This is rediculous. The fact that they are establishing an open despite being constricted by the WCS system? If there is anyone you should lather this toxicity on it's the WCS system itself, not MLG.
The only valid complaint here IMO is the lack of partner streams for the lower rounds. Done right and it's a lot of great content <3.
Again settling. It's a massive downgrade from previous productions. WCS should have little to no bearing on this whatsoever. Please explain how WCS has an effect on MLG choosing to lower their prize pool massively and cut their streamed games to just 25?
They said on Reddit, they are shelling out 100K for WCS and are limited in the amount of cash on hand they can put into the prize pool. The number of streams may be limited by any number of things, including bandwith at the venue or the number of casters they have or production crew.
Not hyped.. what do i care if it's 128 open bracket if i can only watch 25 games.. it's true that almost no one will watch all the games.. but i like to choose!
MLG keeps getting worse imo..
Between ESL, DH, AsusROG, NASL, IP and of course GSL etc. it's clearly the worse and the one with the most glaring flaws and mistakes!
On June 01 2013 01:09 teddyoojo wrote: i call it now, mlg winner: huk
I doubt it, Tier 1 WCS status should be enough, to pull some decent koreans/euros and Huk is not consistent enough atm, to go through numerous rounds of play. He could probably be a favorite killer in this tourney, but not a favorite himself.
I´m a bit worried for MLG´s viewer numbers in this, in 2010 they were "the thing" in the foreign scene, in 2011 they were the first with koreans, in 2012/2013 they had massive prize-pools and payed flights. Now the Prize-pool is at a level with tourneys like HSC, IEM or Dreamhack , which will probably destroy MLG in production value (1 stream etc.).
Glad to see MLG back, even if it's at quarter speed. Have to join the chorus to say that a single stream is pretty dissapointing, however. But then, MLG was never very good at showing more than a fraction of their matches.
I doubt I'll end up watching this. Haven't been excited for an MLG event in a while, I'm not really sure why, but this definitely isn't doing anything to reignite my passion for MLG events. Best of luck with it all, anyway.
It seems plausible that MLG does not see the same value in their events with WCS having such a big impact on the scene. They used to invest a lot into make their events happen. In case they feel they can't get the same out of them anymore then they aren't able to continue to invest money the same way either. It's not like you can actually blame MLG for that it may just be a completely justified response to the new landscape. Hopefully they manage to figure out a way to go back to their old production and player support.
On June 01 2013 01:05 Qwyn wrote: Oh my god. It breaks my heart to see all these complaints regarding another tourney which MLG is willingly setting up with a $25k (that's not a small number in any regard, face it our community has been spoiled) prizepool...
Utterly pathetic by MLG. Disgusted by this . . . please fire them Blizzard. For the love of God, can't you see these guys don't give a shit about Starcraft anymore?
Hire/support NASL for a big event, even WCS - at least it's clear they cared.
This is rediculous. The fact that they are establishing an open despite being constricted by the WCS system? If there is anyone you should lather this toxicity on it's the WCS system itself, not MLG.
The only valid complaint here IMO is the lack of partner streams for the lower rounds. Done right and it's a lot of great content <3.
Again settling. It's a massive downgrade from previous productions. WCS should have little to no bearing on this whatsoever. Please explain how WCS has an effect on MLG choosing to lower their prize pool massively and cut their streamed games to just 25?
You're an anonymous person on the internet. This content is free to you. Completely free. MLG doesn't gain anything from this. It's still not profitable for them to run these sorts of events, let alone break even, why would you expect a massive prizepool for an event that is just a side course to a WCS?
I understand your enthusiasm, but right now I think you should take a step back and consider all the scene has accomplished and have been given over the past few years, and at least try to be a bit thankful.
This is not such a profitable industry that organizers can afford to put $100k prizepools on the line. Those sorts of numbers are supported by Blizzard. And right now, Bizzard is in complete support of their WCS system. To the point that independant organizers are constricted in their options.
To the point...that you should be grateful to see this sort of open. It means that MLG has listened. And although it might not be quite as grand as the stadium filling event which you have fixed in your head, it's a start in the right direction despite obstacles.
As I said, the one complaint here that is valid is the lack of partner streams for lower round games. There are plenty of people who would be willing to cast these games out of the pure enthusiasm of their heart.
You should recognize the line where complaining ceases to constructive and when it becomes toxic. Saying that MLG is disgusting, that they don't give a shit about SC anymore, and that they are not giving an effort despite prepping for a 128 man open with a $25k pool in addition to the burden of WCS, which in fact charts the course MLG and ever othery partner organizer will take as per their agreement, and limits the options of every other independant organizer, is toxic. I'm just suggesting that you try to tone it down a bit and be grateful for all the free content you have recieved and will continue to recieve because of other people's sacrifice and passionate support.
On June 01 2013 01:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: It seems plausible that MLG does not see the same value in their events with WCS having such a big impact on the scene. They used to invest a lot into make their events happen. In case they feel they can't get the same out of them anymore then they aren't able to continue to invest money the same way either. It's not like you can actually blame MLG for that it may just be a completely justified response to the new landscape. Hopefully they manage to figure out a way to go back to their old production and player support.
It's a valid concern, but I can't help but wonder if doing a downsized event to "test the waters again", so to speak, is the way to go. Are we just going to end up with a "See, we totally knew that was going to happen" situation if viewer numbers turn out to be lower exactly because of the decreased production, prize pool, etc.?
On June 01 2013 01:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: It seems plausible that MLG does not see the same value in their events with WCS having such a big impact on the scene. They used to invest a lot into make their events happen. In case they feel they can't get the same out of them anymore then they aren't able to continue to invest money the same way either. It's not like you can actually blame MLG for that it may just be a completely justified response to the new landscape. Hopefully they manage to figure out a way to go back to their old production and player support.
Agreed Nazgul. They need to invest money in WCS as well as their standard MLG events and its not like they have unlimited cash to begin with. I would rather see them focus their time and money on a functional studio and production for WCS, rather going all out with 14 streams for MLG. I barely have time to watch one stream.
So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Oh, looks like they confirmed on twitter, no trips being funded. Another easy win for Hero or Taeja, I suppose. What a shitty way to follow up the best MLG in recent times.
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Oh, looks like they confirmed on twitter, no trips being funded. Another easy win for Hero or Taeja, I suppose. What a shitty way to follow up the best MLG in recent times.
Ugh, I really hope not. That would really delegitimize the competition a lot.
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
The one thing that worries me is the combination of "128 player" and "open bracket". There were enough problems with the WCS qualifiers where legitimate players weren't getting spots with 512 players, and now it's open registration for (fewer than) 128 spots? Even if certain pro players get reserved spots, MLG doesn't have a good track record of choosing players to get those spots...
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
If there are no top Koreans whatsoever and Axeltoss/Axslav are casting the whole event, I really can't see this being successful. What's the draw of the tournament if it's just a bunch of foreigners + Hero/Taeja being given charity WCS points? I already saw foreigners get their asses kicked in WCS NA. I don't need to see it again.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
If there are no top Koreans whatsoever and Axeltoss/Axslav are casting the whole event, I really can't see this being successful. What's the draw of the tournament if it's just a bunch of foreigners + Hero/Taeja being given charity WCS points? I already saw foreigners get their asses kicked in WCS NA. I don't need to see it again.
Is that official? I haven´t seen a caster announcement yet, but I really hope, they bring in a few others; casting the entire tourney will really exhaust those two and tbh. they aren´t exactly the biggest/best names as well.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
If there are no top Koreans whatsoever and Axeltoss/Axslav are casting the whole event, I really can't see this being successful. What's the draw of the tournament if it's just a bunch of foreigners + Hero/Taeja being given charity WCS points? I already saw foreigners get their asses kicked in WCS NA. I don't need to see it again.
I don't know who is casting. DJWheat said he was invited to cast all the events on this weeks ITG, so we might not know who the casters are. I am sure that MLG can get enough good casters from the NA scene to make the event enjoyable.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
Also, Proleague exists and a bunch of the high level Korean players may not be willing to give up so much practice time for proleague. Getting people to fly across the world to compete in an event is hard when those players have their own shit going on.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
LGIM sent (correct past?) quite a few players to IEM´s last year, FXO had players at the last DH and AFAIK kespa teams should be richer than ESF ones. Also a player like Innovation or Life will most likely make more prize than his flight costs.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
Also, Proleague exists and a bunch of the high level Korean players may not be willing to give up so much practice time for proleague. Getting people to fly across the world to compete in an event is hard when those players have their own shit going on.
Maybe ProLeague should award some WCS points, too.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
Also, Proleague exists and a bunch of the high level Korean players may not be willing to give up so much practice time for proleague. Getting people to fly across the world to compete in an event is hard when those players have their own shit going on.
Maybe ProLeague should give out some WCS points, too.
How would you give out WCS points to a team tournament? If you base it on teams winning, random B-teamers will get underserved points, if you give it out on performance, players have to rely on good draws/coach desicions.
Also Proleague is invite-only, that alone make it impossible to give WCS points out on that.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
Also, Proleague exists and a bunch of the high level Korean players may not be willing to give up so much practice time for proleague. Getting people to fly across the world to compete in an event is hard when those players have their own shit going on.
Maybe ProLeague should give out some WCS points, too.
Its not really an league with an open bracket or anything that even resembles WCS beyond the fact that it has SC2.
Meh, a step back for MLG from the Dallas event and last year's events and the lowered prize pool is disappointing. No korean invites like previous champ Life will make this a less interesting event for me. WCS ruining more tourneys with their damn system and points. R.I.P. old MLG! I'll miss you!
On June 01 2013 02:08 Schelim wrote: well maybe the worst major tournament organization in sc2 will finally start fading away
see this is the kind of bitching that needs to stop. MLG is a part of WCS, thats where a large amount of their money is, thats why this is an open bracket with no reserved spots etc etc. This is purely an additional tournament MLG is doing and it's incredibly silly to condemn a tournament before the players/casters/venue etc has been mentioned. Personally I cant wait for it, gonna be some good games
MLG and NASL gave out around $570k last year. Now with WCS, NASL can't work and MLG is only focusing on WCS so actual MLG events will give out a total of $150k this year if the next MLGs keep this $25k prize pool. Good job Blizzard.
see this is the kind of bitching that needs to stop. MLG is a part of WCS, thats where a large amount of their money is, thats why this is an open bracket with no reserved spots etc etc. This is purely an additional tournament MLG is doing and it's incredibly silly to condemn a tournament before the players/casters/venue etc has been mentioned. Personally I cant wait for it, gonna be some good games
lol what? MLG's money is going towards WCS? I don't think so. That's Blizzard's money.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
LGIM sent (correct past?) quite a few players to IEM´s last year, FXO had players at the last DH and AFAIK kespa teams should be richer than ESF ones. Also a player like Innovation or Life will most likely make more prize than his flight costs.
IEM is held at trade shows. IM was sending their players to do promotions there for their sponsors, I imagine the sponsors wanted and paid for it. That's why Mvp gave up his lower-bracket match in Korea WCS last year, because he had to go to IEM for sponsor obligations.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Or we can watch an exciting tournament with amazing games, like we had with ro16 onward of last MLG.
On June 01 2013 01:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: It seems plausible that MLG does not see the same value in their events with WCS having such a big impact on the scene. They used to invest a lot into make their events happen. In case they feel they can't get the same out of them anymore then they aren't able to continue to invest money the same way either. It's not like you can actually blame MLG for that it may just be a completely justified response to the new landscape. Hopefully they manage to figure out a way to go back to their old production and player support.
Its more than WCS that changed the scene, the two other major operators in North America that used to host large scale SC2 events are no longer doing so. Not saying IPL/NASL stopping with SC2 is why MLG is dramatically reducing spending on their championship events, but its definitely more than just WCS that has made the 2013 NA SC2 scene different than the 2012 one.
On June 01 2013 02:12 aike wrote: MLG and NASL gave out around $570k last year. Now with WCS, NASL can't work and MLG is only focusing on WCS so actual MLG events will give out a total of $150k this year if the next MLGs keep this $25k prize pool. Good job Blizzard.
see this is the kind of bitching that needs to stop. MLG is a part of WCS, thats where a large amount of their money is, thats why this is an open bracket with no reserved spots etc etc. This is purely an additional tournament MLG is doing and it's incredibly silly to condemn a tournament before the players/casters/venue etc has been mentioned. Personally I cant wait for it, gonna be some good games
lol what? MLG's money is going towards WCS? I don't think so. That's Blizzard's money.
Did you ever think that $570 might have been to much money for what they were taking in? There is a point when prize pools are irresponsible. $25K is almost the exact same amount Dream Hack gave for their last event, with the same open bracket and fewer players(96 players).
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Do you actually want to watch Joe Schmoes play against Joe Schmoes or something? Because aside from your random assertion that the only alternative to ZERO INVITES is to invite EVERY KESPA player, you seem to just be arguing in favour of what will undoubtedly bring lower quality games.
God damnit now I need to find a way to get some $$ to get to Anaheim... I love going to watch open brackets but if it was invite only then I wouldn't have needed to go D:.
On June 01 2013 02:08 Schelim wrote: well maybe the worst major tournament organization in sc2 will finally start fading away
see this is the kind of bitching that needs to stop. MLG is a part of WCS, thats where a large amount of their money is, thats why this is an open bracket with no reserved spots etc etc. This is purely an additional tournament MLG is doing and it's incredibly silly to condemn a tournament before the players/casters/venue etc has been mentioned. Personally I cant wait for it, gonna be some good games
i don't care about any of that, i'm just kinda happy people are unhappy with something MLG is doing cause it might discourage them from staying in the sc2 scene. they clearly have no idea what this community wants and just generally are really, really bad at organizing their tournaments and/or don't give a fuck. i was honestly surprised when Blizzard gave them the rights to run WCS AM over NASL or even the IPL staff Blizzard had acquired.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
LGIM sent (correct past?) quite a few players to IEM´s last year, FXO had players at the last DH and AFAIK kespa teams should be richer than ESF ones. Also a player like Innovation or Life will most likely make more prize than his flight costs.
IEM is held at trade shows. IM was sending their players to do promotions there for their sponsors, I imagine the sponsors wanted and paid for it. That's why Mvp gave up his lower-bracket match in Korea WCS last year, because he had to go to IEM for sponsor obligations.
FXO is a foreign team.
FXO might be a foreign team, but it still has world korean players, if they get send to MLG, it would be the highest quality of play you can get. IEM Katowice was not held at a convention and had IM players (First&Yoda) as well as other koreans (Parting&Dream) as well.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Do you actually want to watch Joe Schmoes play against Joe Schmoes or something? Because aside from your random assertion that the only alternative to ZERO INVITES is to invite EVERY KESPA player, you seem to just be arguing in favour of what will undoubtedly bring lower quality games.
Yeah, that's all he's been posting about since this WCS news first came out. He's clamoring for some amazing Neeb vs Gowser action.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Or we can watch an exciting tournament with amazing games, like we had with ro16 onward of last MLG.
Nah, I can watch Kespa players beat on each other every week and on the GSL. That's pretty great already, why would I need more. There are all this north america talent I may not know about yet.
Glad that MLG has brought back the open bracket! This is a great opportunity for up and coming NA players.
I just feel like this is a step backward... Only having 1 stream is going to make it even harder to get coverage or notice to those up and coming guys. I don't know why they can't have streams like dreamhack does for the early rounds.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:38 sitromit wrote: So since they say they're "reaching out" to teams to see if they want reserved open bracket tickets and there are no invites, this means MLG isn't flying anyone in, no Kespa players, no Life, no Innovation, all we get is a few Koreans from EG and Liquid?
Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
Also, Proleague exists and a bunch of the high level Korean players may not be willing to give up so much practice time for proleague. Getting people to fly across the world to compete in an event is hard when those players have their own shit going on.
Maybe ProLeague should give out some WCS points, too.
How would you give out WCS points to a team tournament? If you base it on teams winning, random B-teamers will get underserved points, if you give it out on performance, players have to rely on good draws/coach desicions.
Also Proleague is invite-only, that alone make it impossible to give WCS points out on that.
There are ways to make it work, i.e. you could assign a certain amount of points to the winning team/playoff teams and have the team(s) decide how to distribute the points within it (so the team could have their ace get all the points, distribute it within their A-team, w/e; I'm sure the teams would use this to optimize their players' chances and not waste it on B-teamers).
Of course PL is not an open tournament, but did Blizz really say that they'll only hand points to open tournaments? That would mean the smaller Dreamhacks (Valencia, Katovice etc) or other inivte based tournaments wouldn't get any either. I'm not saying this is definitely what should be done, but it could be used to help Kespa players who lack the time due to PL get into the finals. Just throwing the idea out there
I hope MLG gets removed from the plans of WCS next year so they can return to their previous standard and let NASL show us how to run a league.
This is basically what Intel is doing to AMD because the competition is skewed in MLG's favor. No competition, no need to max the efforts to be the best.
Edit: oh, and saying that we want an open bracket doesn't mean you need to completely ditch the invites... The previous champion and the finalist he bested should be reappearing. That is a basic story line that EVERYONE likes.
I see no problem with only having one stream or a smaller price-pool, I'm sure that we'll see enough entertaining games. But they better not show skyline/audience-pictures or other filler-content while there are games going on, like they did at some of their past events.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Do you actually want to watch Joe Schmoes play against Joe Schmoes or something? Because aside from your random assertion that the only alternative to ZERO INVITES is to invite EVERY KESPA player, you seem to just be arguing in favour of what will undoubtedly bring lower quality games.
I just hate invites for players to come over and make easy money. Its not really my thing. All those players play each other every day in Korea and I can watch all of that stuff with amazing production, mostly for free. I can just cue up the latest Proleague match and there they are. Why would I need them to fly over to here just to watch them crush all the NA players and then win this event? Its more interesting for me to have no idea who is going to win, rather than know its going to be one of the 4-6 players MLG invited.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote:
On June 01 2013 01:41 Plansix wrote: [quote] Yeah. It's almost like its fair and doesn't give anyone special treatment.
We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
Also, Proleague exists and a bunch of the high level Korean players may not be willing to give up so much practice time for proleague. Getting people to fly across the world to compete in an event is hard when those players have their own shit going on.
Maybe ProLeague should give out some WCS points, too.
How would you give out WCS points to a team tournament? If you base it on teams winning, random B-teamers will get underserved points, if you give it out on performance, players have to rely on good draws/coach desicions.
Also Proleague is invite-only, that alone make it impossible to give WCS points out on that.
There are ways to make it work, i.e. you could assign a certain amount of points to the winning team/playoff teams and have the team(s) decide how to distribute the points within it (so the team could have their ace get all the points, distribute it within their A-team, w/e; I'm sure the teams would use this to optimize their players' chances and not waste it on B-teamers).
Of course PL is not an open tournament, but did Blizz really say that they'll only hand points to open tournaments? That would mean the smaller Dreamhacks (Valencia, Katovice etc) or other inivte based tournaments wouldn't get any either. I'm not saying this is definitely what should be done, but it could be used to help Kespa players who lack the time due to PL get into the finals. Just throwing the idea out there
Blizzard says that 25% of the event must allow players to qualify through an open bracket(posted by MLGAdam on reddit). And I think the Proleague players are doing just fine on their own. I don't think they need WCS points just because they have a league that players SC2. If they really want them, there is always GSL.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Do you actually want to watch Joe Schmoes play against Joe Schmoes or something? Because aside from your random assertion that the only alternative to ZERO INVITES is to invite EVERY KESPA player, you seem to just be arguing in favour of what will undoubtedly bring lower quality games.
I just hate invites for players to come over and make easy money. Its not really my thing. All those players play each other every day in Korea and I can watch all of that stuff with amazing production, mostly for free. I can just cue up the latest Proleague match and there they are. Why would I need them to fly over to here just to watch them crush all the NA players and then win this event? Its more interesting for me to have no idea who is going to win, rather than know its going to be one of the 4-6 players MLG invited.
Because Proleague is best of 1, that's why. MLG provides a no-preparation environment for players to duke it out in a BoX format. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to see Flash versus Parting in such a format.
Nony likes the open bracket, hmmm. I wonder who will show up. Basicly, until the players and casters are set in stone, this MLG could be just as awesome as it could be fail. One Stream is the only thing that is totally ruining it all, if enough good people show up.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Do you actually want to watch Joe Schmoes play against Joe Schmoes or something? Because aside from your random assertion that the only alternative to ZERO INVITES is to invite EVERY KESPA player, you seem to just be arguing in favour of what will undoubtedly bring lower quality games.
I just hate invites for players to come over and make easy money. Its not really my thing. All those players play each other every day in Korea and I can watch all of that stuff with amazing production, mostly for free. I can just cue up the latest Proleague match and there they are. Why would I need them to fly over to here just to watch them crush all the NA players and then win this event? Its more interesting for me to have no idea who is going to win, rather than know its going to be one of the 4-6 players MLG invited.
Because Proleague is best of 1, that's why. MLG provides a no-preparation environment for players to duke it out in a BoX format. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to see Flash versus Parting in such a format.
People get bored of watching good games and want to watch bad ones for a change apparently. :/
Maybe thorzain is right and wcs will be the death of sc 2. I hate what the scene's become now. The WCS tourneys are underwhelming themselves as I barely watched any WCS NA and only watched the MVP games from ro8 on in WCS EU. I much prefer the scene pre wcs and how it was last year. Blizzard should have just kept the same WCS format they had last year instead of trying to unify the scene with their short sighted and rushed plans.
MLG was always getting better with each event and they along with IPL (r.i.p IPL..) were my two favourite foreign tourneys to watch. Now with this announcement, I'm very underwhelmed and am less inclined to tune in now. It's a real shame how this has turned out.
Certain feedback makes you question why you even bother.
nothing more to add i guess. looking forward to the tournament ;-)
The complaints aren't without merit though. I used to be a huge MLG fan pre wcs and before all their mistakes. Used to defend them against all the euros who would shit on MLG and scream Dreamhack, best thing ever as I always preferred MLG to euro tourneys. Now, I can't really defend or root for MLG anymore with all their WCS mistakes and now the format of anaheim released.
MLG Adam needs to realize, all the negative feedback didn't come out of thin air as a lot of people loved MLG pre wcs. He's basically using negative internet feedback as a cop out excuse for the mistakes and step back they've taken from last year. Instead of addressing the feedback and improving, he goes into emo mode.
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Do you actually want to watch Joe Schmoes play against Joe Schmoes or something? Because aside from your random assertion that the only alternative to ZERO INVITES is to invite EVERY KESPA player, you seem to just be arguing in favour of what will undoubtedly bring lower quality games.
I just hate invites for players to come over and make easy money. Its not really my thing. All those players play each other every day in Korea and I can watch all of that stuff with amazing production, mostly for free. I can just cue up the latest Proleague match and there they are. Why would I need them to fly over to here just to watch them crush all the NA players and then win this event? Its more interesting for me to have no idea who is going to win, rather than know its going to be one of the 4-6 players MLG invited.
Because Proleague is best of 1, that's why. MLG provides a no-preparation environment for players to duke it out in a BoX format. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to see Flash versus Parting in such a format.
Because I have the GSL to watch too and that is good enough for me. I don't need Flash and Parting flown to every event to just to see them play in that specific format. I really enjoy Dreamhack and both Flash and Parting were not there. In fact, it was the exact same format and it was awesome. I see no reason to invite every top Korean to every MLG just to drop them into the group stage and win. That will make me not watch the event because I know how it is going to turn out. You might as well have them play each other and forget the whole open bracket at that point.
On June 01 2013 00:09 PixelNite wrote: Prizepool and number of broadcasted matches seems really low. Cool to see the event having WCS points on the line
That was a given though for all majors.
On June 01 2013 01:44 sitromit wrote: [quote] We'll see when the stream numbers roll in, what people really want to watch. Wanna bet if it'll reach the last final's numbers?
I see nothing wrong with pampering legit pro gamers. If anything it should make them want to attend your events more. Players deserve to be treated well.
I don't know if any of the top Korean players would be interested in slogging through the MLG open bracket. I don't know what MLG would need to go to get Innovation, Life and Flash to attend without offering to drop them directly into the group stage.
WCS points. With Asus back, MLG back, IEM season starting in August, HSC and so on, european players, EGTL players and a few others will start gaining a lot of WCS points until the year ends. Life for example dropped out early in GSL in the first season, if he wants to reach the top 16 at the end of the year, he should attend a few international events.
Only foreign teams send their players to foreign events on their own dime, Korean teams can't afford it. Another way for players on foreign teams to pad their WCS points with easier competitions, I guess.
Also, Proleague exists and a bunch of the high level Korean players may not be willing to give up so much practice time for proleague. Getting people to fly across the world to compete in an event is hard when those players have their own shit going on.
Maybe ProLeague should give out some WCS points, too.
How would you give out WCS points to a team tournament? If you base it on teams winning, random B-teamers will get underserved points, if you give it out on performance, players have to rely on good draws/coach desicions.
Also Proleague is invite-only, that alone make it impossible to give WCS points out on that.
There are ways to make it work, i.e. you could assign a certain amount of points to the winning team/playoff teams and have the team(s) decide how to distribute the points within it (so the team could have their ace get all the points, distribute it within their A-team, w/e; I'm sure the teams would use this to optimize their players' chances and not waste it on B-teamers).
Of course PL is not an open tournament, but did Blizz really say that they'll only hand points to open tournaments? That would mean the smaller Dreamhacks (Valencia, Katovice etc) or other inivte based tournaments wouldn't get any either. I'm not saying this is definitely what should be done, but it could be used to help Kespa players who lack the time due to PL get into the finals. Just throwing the idea out there
Blizzard says that 25% of the event must allow players to qualify through an open bracket(posted by MLGAdam on reddit). And I think the Proleague players are doing just fine on their own. I don't think they need WCS points just because they have a league that players SC2. If they really want them, there is always GSL.
Ah I see, didn't know there was such a requirement. Sure they have to use WCS to qualify, it would be meant to compensate the lack of additional points from Tier X events that non PL teams just have more time for. It could also potentially help to reduce the incentive for Kespa players to travel to those foreigner tournaments to try to grab the points, maybe reducing the competition for the local heroes.
But that requirement makes this idea invalid anyways, so I'll guess on the plus side we'll keep seeing PL players in the rest of the world
On June 01 2013 02:00 TeslasPigeon wrote: The event seems decent enough, I wonder who they will invite to the tournament? I think it should be the top 4 from each region using WCS standings.
They won't invite anyone. You'll see Joe Schmoes duking it out against mid-tier Koreans on foreign teams.
Someone isn't happy unless they invite all of the top Kespa players and seed the into the groups stage. Then we can watch them beat mid-teir Koreans and Joe Schmoes won't even bother showing up because its a waste of their time.
Do you actually want to watch Joe Schmoes play against Joe Schmoes or something? Because aside from your random assertion that the only alternative to ZERO INVITES is to invite EVERY KESPA player, you seem to just be arguing in favour of what will undoubtedly bring lower quality games.
I just hate invites for players to come over and make easy money. Its not really my thing. All those players play each other every day in Korea and I can watch all of that stuff with amazing production, mostly for free. I can just cue up the latest Proleague match and there they are. Why would I need them to fly over to here just to watch them crush all the NA players and then win this event? Its more interesting for me to have no idea who is going to win, rather than know its going to be one of the 4-6 players MLG invited.
You grossly overestimate the availability of televised matches for Koreans. If you're on eSF, you have either Challenger/Code A or Premier/Code S. You only have regular matches to prepare for and (hopefully, for the player) play if you play on a KeSPA team, with Proleague existing. If you get knocked out in the first round of Code S (or A), you might have two or three team league matches to play over the course of 2-3 months before the Up&Downs commence. Showmatches with top-tier koreans are scarce, and there are no online tournaments to speak of.
So no, you cannot watch all those players duke it out every day in Korea. Not even close. Unless you are one of the select few skilled enough to reliably place top 8 in GSL, you have to go overseas to have a chance at a good payday and some time in the spotlight, because there is no way everyone who's good in Korea will; there are too many players.
Take a look at this list. These are all players who have the potential to go overseas and deal serious damage at foreign tournaments, and yet they can't get into Code A because there isn't enough room for all sufficiently skilled players
Dear Best Puzzle free Genius Zest Stats Cure jjakji NAKSEO Turn Bisu herO[jOin] Seed sC Coca TY Argo
With the situation being what it is, can you really blame Koreans for doing everything in their power to go overseas to participate in foreign tournaments?
So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
As others said, the prizepool seems a bit low for me also, but i am not in charge at MLG as to know what's up and why they did it like that. I am sure if they had the means they would have made it even a million. A business is a business.
The number of streams is questionable to say the least. That shouldn't have been an issue in this day and age.
That aside, i am eager to see how it will turn up.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
I guess someone should put together a weekend event in Korea to let those Korean players earn up those WCS points. Or maybe they should get a sponsor to pay for their trip to MLG so they can earn up those WCS points.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I like the format. I don't care for invites, also open bracket is way funner to follow. Hopefully we see some more NA/SA tallent considering WCS America is what it is.
One stream and only 25 games is highly disappointing though. Why can't other casters show more games on other streams?
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
Flash, Inno, Life, Rain and all the other koreans that are popular are people that can probably get their expenses paid, but there is a problem when the regular midtier korean in a korean team can't get a spot to try this. IPL and HSC etc have/had qualifiers so every korean had the chance. They don't have these types of tournaments, but do have team leagues or GSL/OSL (which others have too). Letting every region have chances for up-n-comers is HEALTHY and qualifiers like those that have been hosted EASILY shows you if they are proficient and makes it worth it to send them there. Sponsors should have the opportunity to see if the person can stand a chance. This does not help the midtiers of any region, but relies on people #yoloing to try their luck in a bracket that can deliver you an opponent like HerO in one of the first rounds, effectively killing you 95% of the time.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
Maybe they should, but that results in no Korean teamhouse most of the time, and that weakens your overall play so you might not be able to compete as well as you should be able to compete. Skills should come before opportunity, because they pave the way for opportunity.
On June 01 2013 02:49 hitpoint wrote: I like the format. I don't care for invites, also open bracket is way funner to follow. Hopefully we see some more NA/SA tallent considering WCS America is what it is.
One stream and only 25 games is highly disappointing though. Why can't other casters show more games on other streams?
I remember Totalbiscuit saying that Blizzard put a $10,000 cap on the prize pool (edit: for Shoutcraft America), and Sundance said on SotG that they were in discussion about something with Blizzard, taking a random shot in the dark I think it's very possible that the lowered quality of this MLG might be because Blizzard won't let MLG do an event that could possibly eclipse WCS. Forcing MLG to do a $25,000 prize pool means MLG can't put on as big of a show as they want, so they reduce their production costs in turn by having a smaller open bracket and less stream content.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
Guys it's not like MLG doesn't know what an ideal event looks like. In fact, they've already done a lot of ideal things. They've paid for the flights and hotel rooms of the best SC2 talent in the world and put up big prize pools and created their own multistream interface and streamed in 1080p and hired the best commentators and rented out huge convention centers.
If this is the kind of event that makes sense for them for SC2 at MLG Anaheim 2013, then let's just be thankful for what they put together. This event existing is still a huge positive for the scene.
If you are in a position to make a difference and contribute to or improve the scene, then go for it. But what I see here is a bunch of people doing nothing more than spreading an unappreciative tone. The success of the event will be known after it is done and it will be known by how it actually went, not by how a few people responded to its announcement.
Discussion for discussion's sake is fine when it's original, interesting or positive. We can do without the unoriginal negative nancying.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
I think T8 has pretty much no chance to qualify for the proleague playoffs. I think it would be so cool if they would send Major and TY/Argo/Cure, it would be nice to see some of those players in individual leagues.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
I am all for them coming over to compete and play in MLG. The discussion you jumped in to was not talking about inviting those Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. It was about invited Innovation, Parting, Life and Flash to compete, paying for their trip over.
Everyone else is getting their on their own dime, team or otherwise(like Nony). If their happens to be an ocean in the way, well thats not really a problem MLG should be focused on solving.
On June 01 2013 03:03 Pursuit_ wrote: I remember Totalbiscuit saying that Blizzard put a $10,000 cap on the prize pool (edit: for Shoutcraft America), and Sundance said on SotG that they were in discussion about something with Blizzard, taking a random shot in the dark I think it's very possible that the lowered quality of this MLG might be because Blizzard won't let MLG do an event that could possibly eclipse WCS. Forcing MLG to do a $25,000 prize pool means MLG can't put on as big of a show as they want, so they reduce their production costs in turn by having a smaller open bracket and less stream content.
having a smaller prize pool (expense) should mean you have MORE money for other content..
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
That's what people tell half of the NA and EU players to do, move to Korea to get better and compete at the highest level. Why should it be any different for Korean players who want to compete in events that aren't in Korea? If you want to go to every MLG or Dreamhack, you need to come over to NA or EU.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me.
No, that´s not really an option. It is just the argument, that they would have a disadvantadge that they would have by leaving their teamhouse is bad, in fact the team house is the reason, why they are so good and is more of a current advantadge than a future disadvantadge. I was talking about moving to a euro/american team, like Taeja/HerO/Sting/Arthur and many others did.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
But that's what people always love to tell non-koreans to do?
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
Koreans have had every possible advantage up until now. Better training, better ladder, free rides and invites to foreign tournaments where they take all the top prizes. Why shouldn't they be disadvantaged somehow? I'm sorry, but I do not feel bad that Koreans aren't going to be competing in this foreign tournament for free. The guy you quoted is right imo. If they want to win all the foreign money they should have to be willing to make some sacrifices.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
But that's what people always love to tell non-koreans to do?
No actually it is to fucking put some time into training to not suck.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
But that's what people always love to tell non-koreans to do?
Not the same thing bucko. If you truly want to be the best you go to the best training grounds that's tried; tested and proven in many sports. I'm actually appalled by the CHL even thinking about putting a restriction on disallowing European goalies to join the League because the Canadians are worried about building more Canadian byproducts. That's what top prospects and athletes do. There's a lot to it and it takes a lot of balls to make such moves but it's a career/life choice decision. Sacrifices have to be made and I do not consider a 3 month trip to train in Korea a big sacrifice. Only a handful of people can attempt it and most of them fail for whatever reason. I like to call them training vacations where you get to experience a different culture.
On June 01 2013 02:41 sitromit wrote: So here's what happened. Before the new WCS, we had GSL and OSL in Korea, and weekend tournaments in Europe and America. Blizzard combined GSL and OSL into WCS Korea, and cloned GSL for WCS America and EU.
So now foreign players, and Koreans on foreign teams can gain WCS points from WCS AM or EU, and additional points from all the weekend foreign tournaments that still exist and award WCS points. Koreans on Korean teams on the other hand, can't go to these foreign weekend tournaments unless their expenses are covered, which means they don't have access to all these extra WCS points.
There are no tournaments in Korea that award WCS points other than GSL, so Koreans who aren't on foreign teams get the shaft.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
But that's what people always love to tell non-koreans to do?
Not the same thing bucko. If you truly want to be the best you go to the best training grounds and that's tried; tested and proven in many sports. I'm actually appalled by the CHL even thinking about putting a restriction on disallowing European goalies to join the League because the Canadians are worried about building more Canadian byproducts. That's what top prospects and athletes do. There's a lot to it and it takes a lot of balls to make such moves but it's a career decision.
How is it different? If a good Korean player want to compete in MLG, they should fly them self out here. When NA players compete in Dreamhack, they fly there. The same with IEM and any other event. If Korean players want to compete in all the MLGs because the player thinks they would win them all, its time to move for Korea to NA.
Good to see a MLG Championship tournament being announced. I don't mind that's it's smaller nor do I mind the lower price pool, I'm sure it will be well worth my time like always. But please MLG, copy the Dreamhack format of allowing community casters to stream earlier games and have your live stream do the important final games (and some earlier "bigger name"games too ofc.) The just 1 stream is a problem, the rest is fine. Furthermore I really hope that you and other tournament organizers are not forced By Blizzard to downsize your tournaments; Your work is what made the scene in what it is today.
But hey, at least we can watch them duke it out every day in Korea!
Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
But that's what people always love to tell non-koreans to do?
Not the same thing bucko. If you truly want to be the best you go to the best training grounds and that's tried; tested and proven in many sports. I'm actually appalled by the CHL even thinking about putting a restriction on disallowing European goalies to join the League because the Canadians are worried about building more Canadian byproducts. That's what top prospects and athletes do. There's a lot to it and it takes a lot of balls to make such moves but it's a career decision.
How is it different? If a good Korean player want to compete in MLG, they should fly them self out here. When NA players compete in Dreamhack, they fly there. The same with IEM and any other event. If they want to compete in all the MLGs because the player thinks they would win them all, its time to move for Korea to NA.
What's wrong with earning certain privileges when you've made it? The organization at the end of the day decides where they want to put that money and how much they will pamper the players that attend. That's on their expense in the same way it's the expense of the team's that compete and why the heck would they move here when in many cases they can fly down themselves. Some teams do it for several reasons, but mostly exposure. So once again, what they do with that money is on them and no one else. I've given beef to MLG before for flying players when I know they were trying to make money. The expense made very little sense to me. In any case it's on them and if they want to pamper the players so be it. If I'm a player I wouldn't have it any other way. No need to move when they can fly there and still train in their own territory. Hopefully you have a good team in place.
On June 01 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote: [quote] Where were you guys when Dreamhack didn't invite Flash, Innoviation, Life and Rain to their event and seed them into groups? I mean, who is going to stick up for these poor, players who don't have enough sponsors to fly out to these events without help?
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
But that's what people always love to tell non-koreans to do?
Not the same thing bucko. If you truly want to be the best you go to the best training grounds and that's tried; tested and proven in many sports. I'm actually appalled by the CHL even thinking about putting a restriction on disallowing European goalies to join the League because the Canadians are worried about building more Canadian byproducts. That's what top prospects and athletes do. There's a lot to it and it takes a lot of balls to make such moves but it's a career decision.
How is it different? If a good Korean player want to compete in MLG, they should fly them self out here. When NA players compete in Dreamhack, they fly there. The same with IEM and any other event. If they want to compete in all the MLGs because the player thinks they would win them all, its time to move for Korea to NA.
What's wrong with earning certain privileges when you've made it? The organization at the end of the day decides where they want to put that money and how much they will pamper the players that attend. That's on their expense in the same way it's the expense of the team's that compete and why the heck would they move here when in many cases they can fly down themselves. Some teams do it for several reasons, but mostly exposure. So once again, what they do with that money is on them and no one else. I've given beef to MLG before for flying players when I know they were trying to make money. The expense made very little sense to me. In any case it's on them and if they want to pamper the players so be it. If I'm a player I wouldn't have it any other way. No need to move when they can fly there and still train in their own territory. Hopefully you have a good team in place.
Agreed, but that's not want started the discussion. The fact that MGL didn't invite top Korean players and/or offer to fly them over is what started the argument. Some people were very grumpy about it and wanted the best Korea had to offer invited to the event. They were upset that some people were totally ok with the format and that there were no invites for top Korean players, saying that we "did care about the quality of the games."
On June 01 2013 03:51 FakePseudo wrote: To all the people talking about how small the event is, shouldn't they hold the US season finals during this event too?
Season finals are internationally, there will be one hold in NA, but that is after season 2/3 and probably still a away quite a few time.
I really like the current system of SC2 tournament with WCS as the main thing to look forward to and side tournaments like DH,MLG. 2012 was so freaking random and some tournament lost its importance. I didn't remember winners of some tournaments. It is more structured this way. Only waiting for GSTL and Proleague to merge.
On June 01 2013 02:12 aike wrote: MLG and NASL gave out around $570k last year. Now with WCS, NASL can't work and MLG is only focusing on WCS so actual MLG events will give out a total of $150k this year if the next MLGs keep this $25k prize pool. Good job Blizzard.
see this is the kind of bitching that needs to stop. MLG is a part of WCS, thats where a large amount of their money is, thats why this is an open bracket with no reserved spots etc etc. This is purely an additional tournament MLG is doing and it's incredibly silly to condemn a tournament before the players/casters/venue etc has been mentioned. Personally I cant wait for it, gonna be some good games
lol what? MLG's money is going towards WCS? I don't think so. That's Blizzard's money.
This. Exactly this. People are trying to justify this by saying that MLG is in the hole 100k for WCS. It's not true at all - the information is already out there that WCS is being propped up almost entirely by Blizzard.
My issue with this is that the scene is actually growing for SC2 (if viewership is any indication), and to gut/significantly downsize what was suppose to be the "premier" weekend tournament in the Americas, to what is now only a generic tournament, is horrible for Starcraft. Especially considering that MLG won the bid against NASL for WCS. Wouldn't it have been better for NASL to do WCS and for MLG to actually put on a premier tournament? Now we have a mediocre/bad WCS and a mediocre premier tournament in the Americas. Yet people are cheering this on like blind sheep?
If MLG bit off more than they could chew trying to get their foot in every door, it's their fault. I wouldn't be so upset if they hadn't destroyed NASL in the process. They owe it to the scene to, at minimum, maintain their current level of production. But to lower it now that there is no competition? That justifies some disgust in my mind.
Also, even if we gave into the false premise that they are paying for WCS (which they are not), MLG should still be perfectly capable of putting on a great WCS and a great Premier tournament by using the common sense that people are bringing up in this thread. And they are simply choosing not to. Hence my opinion that they just don't give a shit.
On June 01 2013 03:51 FakePseudo wrote: To all the people talking about how small the event is, shouldn't they hold the US season finals during this event too?
Season finals are internationally, there will be one hold in NA, but that is after season 2/3 and probably still a away quite a few time.
I was talking about the WCS USA season finals, not the global finals, but anyway, upon checking, I was wrong.
On June 01 2013 03:51 FakePseudo wrote: To all the people talking about how small the event is, shouldn't they hold the US season finals during this event too?
Season finals are internationally, there will be one hold in NA, but that is after season 2/3 and probably still a away quite a few time.
I was talking about the WCS USA season finals, not the global finals, but anyway, upon checking, I was wrong.
Oh you menat the top 8 of the current season? Sry, I missunderstood you there.
Do people really think every event needs 100k$ prizepool, 10 streams and 20 casters? People need to start enjoying what they get a little more. Wonder if some are already emailing MLG partners saying 'mlg puts up only one stream for their event you should totally ditch them or i tell all my friends to boycot your company'.
I was really hoping they would do a similar format to the last MLG, it produced some of the most amazing games. A big-ish open bracket with only 1 stream doesn't really sound like a lot of fun to be honest. I don't really understand everyone's hard on for open brackets anyway...
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
I thought the point of the open brackets was that you could have TONS of content (different streams, different games) going all at once... Zzzzzzzzzz.... MLG.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
Then don't tune in, no one is forcing you. Please, don't tune in, its better everyone.
Tons of us enjoyed MLG before they started flying every Korean out to the event free of charge, and we will enjoy them again. We enjoyed Dreamhack too, which only had a bunch of really great players from Europe and Korea too.
I'm all for not inviting players good enough to win WCS. My issue is when people think foreign players should have priority over players like Byul, Hydra, Zest or jjakji. These guys get little to no playing time outside team leagues and thus have no way to earn extra money or WCS points, yet they're good enough to tear shit up overseas; their teams just won't send them - in many cases because they don't have the money to.
And as for your question, I was at Dreamhack. I liked the tournament a lot - it was nice to see Coca and Puzzle playing again.
So those players SHOULD switch teams, for the ones that they would send them oversees.
It's not like it's easy to just "switch teams for the ones that would send them overseas" - in 9 out of 10 cases you need results for a big team to pick you up or for a sponsor to take interest in you. And besides, there aren't enough teams with money to buy trips for all the players good enough to stomp on foreigners, which means that even if all players that foreign teams could take an interest in would switch teams, there would still be dozens more without the means to travel to foreign tournaments.
Edit: and besides, like Wintex said this usually eliminates the team house factor which is one of the main reasons Koreans are so good at Starcraft. No team houses, less skill. Less skill, GG
The team house factor is a choice koreans made my themselves, the high-skill density in korea caused by korean team houses is equally the reason, why koreans are so good and the reason for their lack of exposure. Koreans could move to Europe/America and accept a slight decrease in skill for a great increase of exposure. However, that is a choice they can made, while every other player in the wolrd has just to suck it up and accept the second option.
Ah yes, Koreans should simply move halfway across the globe. Sounds reasonable to me. Can you not imagine why most people would not want to do this, even setting aside Starcraft-related reasons?
But that's what people always love to tell non-koreans to do?
Not the same thing bucko. If you truly want to be the best you go to the best training grounds and that's tried; tested and proven in many sports. I'm actually appalled by the CHL even thinking about putting a restriction on disallowing European goalies to join the League because the Canadians are worried about building more Canadian byproducts. That's what top prospects and athletes do. There's a lot to it and it takes a lot of balls to make such moves but it's a career decision.
How is it different? If a good Korean player want to compete in MLG, they should fly them self out here. When NA players compete in Dreamhack, they fly there. The same with IEM and any other event. If they want to compete in all the MLGs because the player thinks they would win them all, its time to move for Korea to NA.
What's wrong with earning certain privileges when you've made it? The organization at the end of the day decides where they want to put that money and how much they will pamper the players that attend. That's on their expense in the same way it's the expense of the team's that compete and why the heck would they move here when in many cases they can fly down themselves. Some teams do it for several reasons, but mostly exposure. So once again, what they do with that money is on them and no one else. I've given beef to MLG before for flying players when I know they were trying to make money. The expense made very little sense to me. In any case it's on them and if they want to pamper the players so be it. If I'm a player I wouldn't have it any other way. No need to move when they can fly there and still train in their own territory. Hopefully you have a good team in place.
Agreed, but that's not want started the discussion. The fact that MGL didn't invite top Korean players and/or offer to fly them over is what started the argument. Some people were very grumpy about it and wanted the best Korea had to offer invited to the event. They were upset that some people were totally ok with the format and that there were no invites for top Korean players, saying that we "did care about the quality of the games."
If we really want Koreans to start moving to the U.S. markets they're going to need a lot more reasons and motivation to. We ask the following questions. Is there more opportunity? Not really. We're waiting on the NASL to plan their next move and we're waiting to see what Blizzard does with IPL. There's also Lone Star and a few other relatively small tournaments. What about the money? Not only do athletes like playing in the best League but they really like the money that comes with it. Hopefully you have a good contract with a team that treats you right and then you look at em' prize pools. I could list a lot more, but from what I already said. There really is no reason for Koreans to move to the US atm in the current state of affairs. If you're on a team like EG you have all the luxury in the world. I won't be surprised when a lot of teams/players pass on this tournament and heck, good thing because there's only 128 and remember how many people wanted to register the last few times? Shesh. There's going to have to be a lot more money on the line if you really want more Koreans to take notice. The smaller the pool the less likely they're going to appear and I'm sure they considered this when they announced this set-up. Might give more North Americans exposure, but let's be realistic. They aren't going to get much better lol.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
I think you are a bit to pessimistic about the actual list of entries, at least Polt/MC/viOLet/HerO and the usual suspects will probably attend and a few surprises will probably be there as well.
Anyway, should´nt we (all) just wait and see, what the player list looks like, until we discuss this further?
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
Tons of us enjoyed MLG before they started flying every Korean out to the event free of charge,
That's because the skill gap between Koreans and foreigners wasn't massive back then. It wasn't a completely farcical competition.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Dreamhack is good at doing that. No worries Cutetoss. I still <3 u.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Then why do you care? I don't think you understand, I don't care who wins and I like all three of those teams and their players. I just don't want invites for Korean players who wouldn't come unless MLG paid for their flights and worked out some deal with their Kespa team.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Then why do you care? I don't think you understand, I don't care who wins and I like all three of those teams and their players. I just don't want invites for Korean players who wouldn't come unless MLG paid for their flights and worked out some deal with their Kespa team.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
I want a mix of both. I want a bracket that has a mix of good Korean players, good foreigners, and up and comers. That way, when a foreigner steps it up, we know that they mean business (e.g. Scarlett making a run through IPL). It's completely pointless to give NA players the spotlight in a premier tournament if the whole competition is diminished from the outset by the lack of top level competition. Even if a foreigner does well, it's not really giving them much attention because everyone will just be like "yeah, but there was only Y Korean in the whole bracket"
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Then why do you care? I don't think you understand, I don't care who wins and I like all three of those teams and their players. I just don't want invites for Korean players who wouldn't come unless MLG paid for their flights and worked out some deal with their Kespa team.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
I want a mix of both. I want a bracket that has a mix of good Korean players, good foreigners, and up and comers. That way, when a foreigner steps it up, we know that they mean business (e.g. Scarlett making a run through IPL). It's completely pointless to give NA players the spotlight in a premier tournament if the whole competition is diminished from the outset by the lack of top level competition. Even if a foreigner does well, it's not really giving them much attention because everyone will just be like "yeah, but there was only Y Korean in the whole bracket"
Well you will get that. EG, TL and Axiom will show up. I am sure other Korean players too who have sponsors. Some other NA players too. Just because they don't invite players doesn't mean good players won't show up.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
Tons of us enjoyed MLG before they started flying every Korean out to the event free of charge,
That's because the skill gap between Koreans and foreigners wasn't massive back then. It wasn't a completely farcical competition.
Plenty of Koreans are still going to be there. You can just watch those games. Just in case they broadcast any foreigner games, you can spend that time polluting the LR thread with more hyperbole about how the only players that matter come from code S. It's win/win.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Then why do you care? I don't think you understand, I don't care who wins and I like all three of those teams and their players. I just don't want invites for Korean players who wouldn't come unless MLG paid for their flights and worked out some deal with their Kespa team.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
I want to see the best players in the world play against each other and produce amazing games. I was very happy with last MLG. A lot of people seemed to agree, because it got record stream numbers from what I remember.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Then why do you care? I don't think you understand, I don't care who wins and I like all three of those teams and their players. I just don't want invites for Korean players who wouldn't come unless MLG paid for their flights and worked out some deal with their Kespa team.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Yeah, I'd like that a lot; give the top contenders more chances to secure the WCS points that are so ridiculously hard to come by in Korea. But honestly, I'd settle for a tournament where the top 4 finishers from the last tournament are flown in. Maybe even just top 2. The "finalists return" is one of the things I think MLG has done right, and I'm a little disappointed that it's not the case this time. It's obviously nice that we have a tournament to watch at all, don't get me wrong.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Then why do you care? I don't think you understand, I don't care who wins and I like all three of those teams and their players. I just don't want invites for Korean players who wouldn't come unless MLG paid for their flights and worked out some deal with their Kespa team.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
I want to see the best players in the world play against each other and produce amazing games. I was very happy with last MLG. A lot of people seemed to agree, because it got record stream numbers from what I remember.
Well you will get that in at the World Finals for WCS in a couple of weeks in Korea, so you should be fine.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
The problem with the WCS system being what it is, is that foreign events with WCS points become so much more important. Had this been last year, I would have had no complaints. This year, Koreans are basically given two options: either you place top 8 for three seasons of WCS KR in a row, or you make sure you're able to compete overseas. Foreign players and players on teams with the money to send their players to a lot of events have the advantage here; it's not just about the money from the separate tournaments, it's also about the chance to get a spot at the WCS Grand Finals at Blizzcon toward the end of the year. That's a really huge deal, and the fact that the people who choose to stay and compete in Korea have so few chances outside WCS with the changes to the foreign tournament scene makes me a little sad.
I think people think this is the main tournament, this is an entirely different tournament for SC2, they will have the professional one, and this one for open bracket AFAIK
On June 01 2013 04:22 Zealously wrote: The problem with the WCS system being what it is, is that foreign events with WCS points become so much more important. Had this been last year, I would have had no complaints. This year, Koreans are basically given two options: either you place top 8 for three seasons of WCS KR in a row, or you make sure you're able to compete overseas. Foreign players and players on teams with the money to send their players to a lot of events have the advantage here; it's not just about the money from the separate tournaments, it's also about the chance to get a spot at the WCS Grand Finals at Blizzcon toward the end of the year. That's a really huge deal, and the fact that the people who choose to stay and compete in Korea have so few chances outside WCS with the changes to the foreign tournament scene makes me a little sad.
I tend to disagree, every korean player was able to sign up for WCS NA/Europe and earn his points there; the flights for WCS events are paid AFAIK.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
Agreed. The least MLG could do would be to simply maintain the current production. But why maintain current production standards when you manage to eliminate all your competition by winning the bid for WCS? Hell, next year they might just hold it in a basement with 12 players. Nothing stopping them if the community doesn't speak up about it. But I don't expect people to stop clapping like seals no matter what they get, which is sad.
On June 01 2013 04:23 Nightshade_ wrote: I think people think this is the main tournament, this is an entirely different tournament for SC2, they will have the professional one, and this one for open bracket AFAIK
Eh, no you're confused. This is the MAIN sc2 tourney. It's a 128 man double elimination open bracket. There's no separate pro/amateur tourney.
On June 01 2013 04:22 Zealously wrote: The problem with the WCS system being what it is, is that foreign events with WCS points become so much more important. Had this been last year, I would have had no complaints. This year, Koreans are basically given two options: either you place top 8 for three seasons of WCS KR in a row, or you make sure you're able to compete overseas. Foreign players and players on teams with the money to send their players to a lot of events have the advantage here; it's not just about the money from the separate tournaments, it's also about the chance to get a spot at the WCS Grand Finals at Blizzcon toward the end of the year. That's a really huge deal, and the fact that the people who choose to stay and compete in Korea have so few chances outside WCS with the changes to the foreign tournament scene makes me a little sad.
I tend to disagree, every korean player was able to sign up for WCS NA/Europe and earn his points there; the flights for WCS events are paid AFAIK.
Winter is coming... in June. Funny that just yesterday Scoots was talking about how disappointed we could become if our production qualities had to go down, because of cuts to production crews. A prophet and a scholar.
On the brightside, at least there will be some SC2 at MLG and there's an open bracket.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
More disappointed by the lack of a second stream than the prize pool. The prize pool is understandable due to having to spend production budget on a year-round WCS, but no two-stream SC2 is unfortunate.
I'll still watch, but I -really- hope there is very, very minimal downtime - 5 minutes should be the norm between matches, 10 minutes absolute max.
On June 01 2013 04:22 Zealously wrote: The problem with the WCS system being what it is, is that foreign events with WCS points become so much more important. Had this been last year, I would have had no complaints. This year, Koreans are basically given two options: either you place top 8 for three seasons of WCS KR in a row, or you make sure you're able to compete overseas. Foreign players and players on teams with the money to send their players to a lot of events have the advantage here; it's not just about the money from the separate tournaments, it's also about the chance to get a spot at the WCS Grand Finals at Blizzcon toward the end of the year. That's a really huge deal, and the fact that the people who choose to stay and compete in Korea have so few chances outside WCS with the changes to the foreign tournament scene makes me a little sad.
I tend to disagree, every korean player was able to sign up for WCS NA/Europe and earn his points there; the flights for WCS events are paid AFAIK.
Yeah but not any intercontinental flight !
Ok, then I had that wrong in mind, thought they would pay everything.
Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
I mean at worst, the prize pool will discourage some Koreans, so you end up with a ~5 Koreans + 123 NA players match, which is what many argue that WCS NA should have been.
It'll be the kind of Korean/foreigner ratio that was in WCS EU, but in a more fast-paced format and on a different continent.'
I think the event will be great; it's the production I'm worried about.
I think we should stop complain about the prizepool. Actually nobody of us (Community/Fans) should care about the prizepool because we dont attend this/these tournament(s). Only the players may care about this.
I am rather worried about the importance of such (very favored) weekend tournaments. Basically everyone doesn't have time to play such weekend tournaments because they have to play/prepare WCS matches.
WCS & Blizzard are killing so much, especially weekend tournaments and make a very boring own long-run tournaments (WCS EU/NA/KR). They downgraded everything and pretend their own tournament a very high value, it looks very artificial (still).
On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
Oh yeah, because they shower in money in the various lavishing Korean competitions.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
It depends on how much they value the WCS points. Most will be at a negative/go if they don't win the tournament because of travel. It's a bit early in the season to see if the 75-150 points from placing 9-16th will make a big difference at the end of the year for Blizzcon qualification.
On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
Oh yeah, because they shower in money in the various lavishing Korean competitions.
lol, what? He's right. It is not cheap to fly from Korea to the US, not to mention other costs, and it is only for a chance to win.
On June 01 2013 03:55 Plansix wrote: [quote] God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
You call it a side show. I call it the main attraction and the reason to tune into the event.
God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
Then why do you care? I don't think you understand, I don't care who wins and I like all three of those teams and their players. I just don't want invites for Korean players who wouldn't come unless MLG paid for their flights and worked out some deal with their Kespa team.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Yeah, I'd like that a lot; give the top contenders more chances to secure the WCS points that are so ridiculously hard to come by in Korea. But honestly, I'd settle for a tournament where the top 4 finishers from the last tournament are flown in. Maybe even just top 2. The "finalists return" is one of the things I think MLG has done right, and I'm a little disappointed that it's not the case this time. It's obviously nice that we have a tournament to watch at all, don't get me wrong.
If there is one thing I want to see more of its continuity. Not just from organizer to organizer (which we sort of see from WCS). The organizers know of it, heck MLG partnered with DH/Gom before to make such things happen. What I'd like to see happen is every major tournament try their best to get the last winner of another major (regardless of the host/organizer) to build more continuity not for each brand. This is where my World Tour Circuit comes in, so we truly get to see the best of the best on a consistent basis. We're building towards creating more iconic/symbolic characters through inter-promotion & we have a better scale to go by. See several organizations like DH have their Winter, Summer, etc. Events where at the end they bring all the previous champs to a Final Tournament so-to-speak. This isn't what I'm talking about. I want to place more focus on the here and now. Rather than, okay a guy got his seed in Spring. 6 months later he attends the Winter Final? That time gap is too long. Instead we should be striving to connect each major together & it makes for a better story. If I'm an organizer I would move Heaven and Earth to get the last winner of a Major regardless of the brand. If I have a really big tournament coming up. I'd give that player a chance to continue their domination.
On June 01 2013 03:55 Plansix wrote: [quote] God knows, we were seeking Bombers approval for the prize money he could win. After all, 10K in a weekend is pocket change.
Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
Oh yeah, because they shower in money in the various lavishing Korean competitions.
lol, what? He's right. It is not cheap to fly from Korea to the US, not to mention other costs, and it is only for a chance to win.
That's the risk every single person who attends a tournament takes. So their plane ticket costs more than someone from NA, but their chances to win are much higher also. They may not place high enough to cover travel costs, but going to literally any other tournament has that same risk, for every player. I don't see the problem.
On June 01 2013 03:57 Shiori wrote: [quote] Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
On June 01 2013 03:57 Shiori wrote: [quote] Considering hotel + flight + nowhere near guaranteed that you'll get first, let alone top 3, then yeah, 10k isn't enough to justify a trip from Korea.
Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
You call it a side show. I call it the main attraction and the reason to tune into the event.
He makes a good point though. I like the idea of players competing under the same tournament. The KeSPA tournament were pretty much show matches and a stand alone. This doesn't mean I'm not open to a Major League/Minor League layout because I did write about that in my Manifesto, but the principle is different because the Major League is only for pro's who qualify and the minor league would be for amateurs/pro's who didn't qualify.
On June 01 2013 03:59 Plansix wrote: [quote] Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
On June 01 2013 03:59 Plansix wrote: [quote] Well, its an easy decision for him then. I am sure there is a player in NA who would love to win 10K for first(looking at you Nony).
Seriously, are people going to go and find grumpy tweets from Korean players who just found out they can't win 25-50K coming to MLG.
And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
that's a fair point, but you have to realize how much bigger of a commitment going to an MLG is for a Korean player compared to an American or even a European player. if you remember, for a long time there were close to no Europeans at MLGs and the field was therefore full of Koreans and sacrifical lambs, err, i mean Americans. the tournaments to take place in NA. you can't really expect people fly over all the way from South Korea, paying for flights, hotels etc to get a chance at working their way through a huge open bracket that then brings them into a championship bracket where they have somewhat of a chance of getting a good finish.
All of the people who fought for and defended the idea of having Koreans in foreign tournaments can be thanked for the diminished MLG prize pool and stream count.
The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
On June 01 2013 04:56 jdsowa wrote: All of the people who fought for and defended the idea of having Koreans in foreign tournaments can be thanked for the diminished MLG prize pool and stream count.
Congratulations, the silliest statement of the thread.
Would you mind backing this up with, you know, anything?
On June 01 2013 04:56 jdsowa wrote: All of the people who fought for and defended the idea of having Koreans in foreign tournaments can be thanked for the diminished MLG prize pool and stream count.
Congratulations, the silliest statement of the thread.
Would you mind backing this up with, you know, anything?
Most of the foreign personalities that drove interest in the early part of this game's life span have been forced to effectively retire from competition or have been relegated to irrelevancy after the influx of Koreans to foreign tournaments. The people who were vocal in their support of this influx were very short-sighted, as far as the business aspect of SC2 was concerned.
On June 01 2013 04:03 Shiori wrote: [quote] And I'm sure there are people who will watch an event where Nony is the biggest contender for first place. Oh wait, no I'm not. I can't see a reason why anyone outside of NA would tune in to see that, and even half of NA probably doesn't care.
But yeah. we all know that Capoch vs Goswser was such a blockbuster game that we need more of that, right?
What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
On June 01 2013 04:56 jdsowa wrote: All of the people who fought for and defended the idea of having Koreans in foreign tournaments can be thanked for the diminished MLG prize pool and stream count.
Congratulations, the silliest statement of the thread.
Would you mind backing this up with, you know, anything?
Most of the foreign personalities that drove interest in the early part of this game's life span have been forced to effectively retire from competition or have been relegated to irrelevancy after the influx of Koreans to foreign tournaments. The people who were vocal in their support of this influx were very short-sighted, as far as the business aspect of SC2 was concerned.
and why exactly should viewers care about the 'business aspect' of sc2 rather than what they actually want to see?
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
Yeah, and MLG usually has less popular games than SC2 as well. Their entire array of fighting games doesn't bring in nearly as many numbers as SC2.
On June 01 2013 04:56 jdsowa wrote: All of the people who fought for and defended the idea of having Koreans in foreign tournaments can be thanked for the diminished MLG prize pool and stream count.
Congratulations, the silliest statement of the thread.
Would you mind backing this up with, you know, anything?
Most of the foreign personalities that drove interest in the early part of this game's life span have been forced to effectively retire from competition or have been relegated to irrelevancy after the influx of Koreans to foreign tournaments. The people who were vocal in their support of this influx were very short-sighted, as far as the business aspect of SC2 was concerned.
You may find this hard to believe, but most of the people who were vocal in their support of Koreans coming to foreign events don't give two shits about the business aspect. They want, in almost all cases, to either see their favorite players or the best games, or both. Koreans provide this more reliably than foreigners, which is why people want them to come to MLGs. Not to maximise profits.
On June 01 2013 04:07 sitromit wrote: [quote] What's funny is Koreans will win anyway. Just the mid-tier ones on foreign teams. It's a gift to Axiom, Liquid and EG.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
So just get rid of the MLG vs Proleague and have regional qualifiers online. Simple and accomplishes the same thing.
This is a weird discussion because I am not really sure what you folks want? Do you want an all invite event where they import all of the top Korean players for the weekend?
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
So just get rid of the MLG vs Proleague and have regional qualifiers online. Simple and accomplishes the same thing.
Or everyone can just come and play in the open bracket like everyone else? We don't need to qualify people for free seeds to groups per region just to assure that select groups of players can avoid the open bracket and all the struggles that go with that.
Not sure what's so hard to understand. I want last year's format. Open bracket plus korean seeds for group play. You're trying to push an extreme system of invite only system with top koreans as a counter argument, when no one argued that. We already had the perfect format last year at mlgs.
So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
So just get rid of the MLG vs Proleague and have regional qualifiers online. Simple and accomplishes the same thing.
Or everyone can just come and play in the open bracket like everyone else? We don't need to qualify people for free seeds to groups per region just to assure that select groups of players can avoid the open bracket and all the struggles that go with that.
So you think there's nothing reasonable about the notion that people who won the previous MLG should have some sort of champion's privilege? What kind of logic is that? Christ, if we look at open tournaments in real life, the point of the open bracket is to give amateurs a chance to step it up; we don't make the world champion leg it through the open bracket just to make it into group play because it's already established that he's of that level.
On June 01 2013 04:28 Plansix wrote: [quote] So you want an unfair event that favors players from Korea on teams that have deals with MGL to secure the seeds in to group play? Why not just cut out the open bracket and stop that side show? Its not like it really matters in that format, since the players seeded into group play have to play one third of the games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
So just get rid of the MLG vs Proleague and have regional qualifiers online. Simple and accomplishes the same thing.
Or everyone can just come and play in the open bracket like everyone else? We don't need to qualify people for free seeds to groups per region just to assure that select groups of players can avoid the open bracket and all the struggles that go with that.
So you think there's nothing reasonable about the notion that people who won the previous MLG should have some sort of champion's privilege? What kind of logic is that? Christ, if we look at open tournaments in real life, the point of the open bracket is to give amateurs a chance to step it up; we don't make the world champion leg it through the open bracket just to make it into group play because it's already established that he's of that level.
Oh, its totally fine if people who won previous events that year get a place in groups. That is how MLG was before they started messing with the system to make sure Korean players got to avoid the open bracket. I would even accept the top 4, as long as the previous event had the same format at the current one. But no invite only event that then seeds into an event with the open bracket.
meh, I can understand they had to downsize the prizepool post-WCS, but I don't get that there is only one stream. If MLG don't want to pay for the big names in the casterbusiness themself, why not just allow comunitystreams like DH? I'm sure there would be enough people willing to stream the other games.
Yup, I loved last year's format. I like the open bracket too so you can have someone like leenock make an open bracket run and win it.
Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
So just get rid of the MLG vs Proleague and have regional qualifiers online. Simple and accomplishes the same thing.
Or everyone can just come and play in the open bracket like everyone else? We don't need to qualify people for free seeds to groups per region just to assure that select groups of players can avoid the open bracket and all the struggles that go with that.
So you think there's nothing reasonable about the notion that people who won the previous MLG should have some sort of champion's privilege? What kind of logic is that? Christ, if we look at open tournaments in real life, the point of the open bracket is to give amateurs a chance to step it up; we don't make the world champion leg it through the open bracket just to make it into group play because it's already established that he's of that level.
Oh, its totally fine if people who won previous events that year get a place in groups. That is how MLG was before they started messing with the system to make sure Korean players got to avoid the open bracket. I would even accept the top 4, as long as the previous event had the same format at the current one. But no invite only event that then seeds into an event with the open bracket.
So you would be okay with regional qualifiers, so long as there were no restrictions on entry (beyond, perhaps, preventing anyone below Masters from entering)?
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
It's not absurd at all, as they didn't drop Starcraft, they just dropped their production value because they don't have anyone to compete against. Why offer more tournament money when NASL and IPL are dead? Why offer more than 1 stream when there's nothing else to compare it against? They "won" Starcraft when they won the bid for WCS. Now they can do the bare minimum and all the sheeple in our community will still support them.
The real sucker in this ordeal is Blizzard, for trusting MLG to do a good job after they were handed the key to Starcraft in the Americas. If only someone in Blizzard had the balls to take the key away from them and give it to an organization willing to put in more effort. Wouldn't that be great?
On June 01 2013 04:38 Plansix wrote: [quote] Yeah, last years format was a side show, with stupid eSF and Kespa only brackets to assure they qualified to be seeded directly into group play. It provided unfair advantages to players who did not earn them and did everything it could to seed "big names" into group play. Players who had to go through the open bracket got the shaft for no other reason than they couldn't make deals with MLG to be seeded into the event.
you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
So just get rid of the MLG vs Proleague and have regional qualifiers online. Simple and accomplishes the same thing.
Or everyone can just come and play in the open bracket like everyone else? We don't need to qualify people for free seeds to groups per region just to assure that select groups of players can avoid the open bracket and all the struggles that go with that.
So you think there's nothing reasonable about the notion that people who won the previous MLG should have some sort of champion's privilege? What kind of logic is that? Christ, if we look at open tournaments in real life, the point of the open bracket is to give amateurs a chance to step it up; we don't make the world champion leg it through the open bracket just to make it into group play because it's already established that he's of that level.
Oh, its totally fine if people who won previous events that year get a place in groups. That is how MLG was before they started messing with the system to make sure Korean players got to avoid the open bracket. I would even accept the top 4, as long as the previous event had the same format at the current one. But no invite only event that then seeds into an event with the open bracket.
So you would be okay with regional qualifiers, so long as there were no restrictions on entry (beyond, perhaps, preventing anyone below Masters from entering)?
Sure, as long a everyone plays under the same rules, including players from NA. As longs the rules are the same for everyone, I don't care. But the instant Kespa gets their own bracket because they don't want to qualify against eSF players, I am out.
On June 01 2013 04:43 Schelim wrote: [quote] you're really gonna say the Koreans didn't deserve to make it though when there also were brackets that ensured EU and especially NA players making it through? i agree that the format sucked, but the Koreans were not the ones that didn't deserve to be there.
If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
So just get rid of the MLG vs Proleague and have regional qualifiers online. Simple and accomplishes the same thing.
Or everyone can just come and play in the open bracket like everyone else? We don't need to qualify people for free seeds to groups per region just to assure that select groups of players can avoid the open bracket and all the struggles that go with that.
So you think there's nothing reasonable about the notion that people who won the previous MLG should have some sort of champion's privilege? What kind of logic is that? Christ, if we look at open tournaments in real life, the point of the open bracket is to give amateurs a chance to step it up; we don't make the world champion leg it through the open bracket just to make it into group play because it's already established that he's of that level.
Oh, its totally fine if people who won previous events that year get a place in groups. That is how MLG was before they started messing with the system to make sure Korean players got to avoid the open bracket. I would even accept the top 4, as long as the previous event had the same format at the current one. But no invite only event that then seeds into an event with the open bracket.
So you would be okay with regional qualifiers, so long as there were no restrictions on entry (beyond, perhaps, preventing anyone below Masters from entering)?
Sure, as long a everyone plays under the same rules, including players from NA. As longs the rules are the same for everyone, I don't care. But the instant Kespa gets their own bracket because they don't want to qualify against eSF players, I am out.
Sounds reasonable to me. I think MLG should have done this, that's all.
On June 01 2013 05:29 Myt wrote: meh, I can understand they had to downsize the prizepool post-WCS, but I don't get that there is only one stream. If MLG don't want to pay for the big names in the casterbusiness themself, why not just allow comunitystreams like DH? I'm sure there would be enough people willing to stream the other games.
mlg wants to generate a perception of scarcity, so they can charge more for their premium service. classic business tactic.
On June 01 2013 05:42 HighSchoolStarleague wrote: I thought MLG was doing away with the open bracket??
Only for the last one, because it was a PITA to do online qualfiers with the unstable HotS beta servers and all that. They always planned on going back to their preferred, open-bracket format.
On June 01 2013 04:47 Plansix wrote: [quote] If they are that good, they can slog through the open bracket just like everyone else. I know that some people get very upset at the concept of Innovation or Flash having to dirty their hands by playing in the open bracket against "unworthy opponents", but any other system is just unfair and not real competition.
Tonnes of foreigners, tonnes of top Koreans, including some open bracket runs by people like Rain. What in the world was wrong with that?
The main problem with MLG Fall 2012 was the MLG vs Proleague Invitational which was an event specifically designed to seed Proleague players into the group play. It had no other purpose but to assure any player who came over would not have to play in the open bracket. It provided some other players seeds they didn't earn either, which is also total BS.
So just get rid of the MLG vs Proleague and have regional qualifiers online. Simple and accomplishes the same thing.
Or everyone can just come and play in the open bracket like everyone else? We don't need to qualify people for free seeds to groups per region just to assure that select groups of players can avoid the open bracket and all the struggles that go with that.
So you think there's nothing reasonable about the notion that people who won the previous MLG should have some sort of champion's privilege? What kind of logic is that? Christ, if we look at open tournaments in real life, the point of the open bracket is to give amateurs a chance to step it up; we don't make the world champion leg it through the open bracket just to make it into group play because it's already established that he's of that level.
Oh, its totally fine if people who won previous events that year get a place in groups. That is how MLG was before they started messing with the system to make sure Korean players got to avoid the open bracket. I would even accept the top 4, as long as the previous event had the same format at the current one. But no invite only event that then seeds into an event with the open bracket.
So you would be okay with regional qualifiers, so long as there were no restrictions on entry (beyond, perhaps, preventing anyone below Masters from entering)?
Sure, as long a everyone plays under the same rules, including players from NA. As longs the rules are the same for everyone, I don't care. But the instant Kespa gets their own bracket because they don't want to qualify against eSF players, I am out.
Sounds reasonable to me. I think MLG should have done this, that's all.
The thing is that MLG has always been about the open bracket and only started doing invites to assure that Korean players were at the event. Since they started doing it in 2011, the number of invited Korean players and grown and they have found more ways to have the invited players avoid the open bracket. MLG got away from where it started, with players coming from all over and blazing their way through the open bracket to win the event, like Huk and Nani'wa. Finally, early this year they moved to invite only event with an invite only, region and league specific qualifier. At the time I didn't care, but look back it was far from the parts of MLG I enjoyed in 2011.
With WCS, there is room for an event where its all about how shows up and who is the best out of those players.
They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone.
The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this?
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone.
The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this?
People are slightly more reasonable and don't compare MLG to an event run out of a guys apartment, a massive LAN that would go on with or without SC2 and a production company that has been running SC2 in Korea since launch.
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone.
The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this?
People are slightly more reasonable and don't compare MLG to an event run out of a guys apartment, a massive LAN that would go on with or without SC2 and a production company that has been running SC2 in Korea since launch.
mlg would go on with or without sc2, they were around for 6-7 years++ before sc2. they have also ran sc2 since basically launch.
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone.
The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this?
People are slightly more reasonable and don't compare MLG to an event run out of a guys apartment, a massive LAN that would go on with or without SC2 and a production company that has been running SC2 in Korea since launch.
Those European tournaments that you seem diminish with a cheeky attitude actually have the same prize pool as MLG Anaheim, and neither are intended to be the Premier European event. It's likely that they both will have much better production, as well. Not only is it reasonable to compare them in my opinion, it's more than reasonable to criticize MLG for downgrading their production significantly.
Whether you agree with it or not, the Starcraft tournament scene has been destroyed in the Americas. I didn't have to happen, and it's not the fault of WCS. It's not the fault of viewership, which is increasing. MLG was given the key to putting on a great production for WCS and a great premier tournament. Both are appearing to be very lackluster.
I also blame Blizzard somewhat for not being cautious enough when IPL went down, and for allowing NASL to disappear. They really put everything into MLG without considering that they might be a typical greedy organization that would take advantage of their monopoly. Now we're seeing the results.
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
Ha you think they put this together at the last minute? Sc2 was always going to be at Anaheim. They said that at Dallas, MLG Adam said it over a month ago on Reddit.
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
Ha you think they put this together at the last minute? Sc2 was always going to be at Anaheim. They said that at Dallas, MLG Adam said it over a month ago on Reddit.
One week ago there was absolutely no information about the event or any concrete confirmation until 2 days ago.
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone.
The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this?
People are slightly more reasonable and don't compare MLG to an event run out of a guys apartment, a massive LAN that would go on with or without SC2 and a production company that has been running SC2 in Korea since launch.
Those European tournaments that you seem diminish with a cheeky attitude actually have the same prize pool as MLG Anaheim, and neither are intended to be the Premier European event. It's likely that they both will have much better production, as well. Not only is it reasonable to compare them in my opinion, it's more than reasonable to criticize MLG for downgrading their production significantly.
Whether you agree with it or not, the Starcraft tournament scene has been destroyed in the Americas. I didn't have to happen, and it's not the fault of WCS. MLG was given the key to putting on a great production for WCS and a great premier tournament. Both are appearing to be very lackluster.
I also blame Blizzard somewhat for not being cautious enough when IPL went down, and for allowing NASL to disappear. They really put everything into MLG without considering that they might be a typical greedy organization that would take advantage of their monopoly. Now we're seeing the results.
My attitude is one that doesn't freak out every time MLG makes an announcement. Every time they put on an event, people lose their minds and jump up and down about how horrible everything is. Last time, people whined because it was an invite only event. This time, its an open bracket only and people whine that their aren't enough invites of top Korean players. People are grumpy that MLG isn't handing out four times as much as Dreamhack, who somehow gets none of this shit, ever.
And me, I am just pumped it is on a weekend I don't have to go to a wedding and my friends are in town.
This past 3 months for amateur players has been quite laughable. Poor organization overall in NA and new magical rules about qualification process from the initial open WCS bracket keep coming up which exclude players based on rules they never knew of at the time; not to mention what just happened to these player passes.
It's sad for me as a player because I really want to continue playing but seeing how much I'm enjoying the game and the incredibly poor organization I can't help but feel a sense of freedom for when a new competitive title comes out.
It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
In case you missed it... WCS determines prize pools in all regions so that they are similar. This is why many people are angry that GSL has like 1/3 of the total prize money it did from last year.
(This is a WCS sanctioned event based on the previous performance of players. Reserved spots for NA players come from the WCS brackets, and there are WCS points to be earned.)
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone.
The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this?
People are slightly more reasonable and don't compare MLG to an event run out of a guys apartment, a massive LAN that would go on with or without SC2 and a production company that has been running SC2 in Korea since launch.
Those European tournaments that you seem diminish with a cheeky attitude actually have the same prize pool as MLG Anaheim, and neither are intended to be the Premier European event. It's likely that they both will have much better production, as well. Not only is it reasonable to compare them in my opinion, it's more than reasonable to criticize MLG for downgrading their production significantly.
Whether you agree with it or not, the Starcraft tournament scene has been destroyed in the Americas. I didn't have to happen, and it's not the fault of WCS. MLG was given the key to putting on a great production for WCS and a great premier tournament. Both are appearing to be very lackluster.
I also blame Blizzard somewhat for not being cautious enough when IPL went down, and for allowing NASL to disappear. They really put everything into MLG without considering that they might be a typical greedy organization that would take advantage of their monopoly. Now we're seeing the results.
My attitude is one that doesn't freak out every time MLG makes an announcement. Every time they put on an event, people lose their minds and jump up and down about how horrible everything is. Last time, people whined because it was an invite only event. This time, its an open bracket only and people whine that their aren't enough invites of top Korean players. People are grumpy that MLG isn't handing out four times as much as Dreamhack, who somehow gets none of this shit, ever.
And me, I am just pumped it is on a weekend I don't have to go to a wedding and my friends are in town.
Seems like a reasonable post to me. However, it is a very big deal to see the only LAN tournament that we know of thus far in the Americas being ridiculously cheap relative to their past, after getting the WCS bid . . . after NASL and IPL get run out of SC2.
Dreamhack doesn't get as much shit because, as mentioned previously, there are tons of high quality tournaments to watch in Europe and Dreamhack puts on a great production regardless. On the other hand, MLG is the tournament in the Americas at the moment and they are clearly taking advantage that position. That's what pisses me and (probably) a fair few others off about this situation. I just want to see them try harder. But they have no reason to try harder. There isn't any competition.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
So MLG running WCS NA is just blowing smoke up our asses? Didn't we get really high stream numbers at Dallas like 2 months ago? I really don't get where this attitude is coming from. I'm willing to bet running WCS costs more than their budget in previous years.
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
It's not absurd at all, as they didn't drop Starcraft, they just dropped their production value because they don't have anyone to compete against. Why offer more tournament money when NASL and IPL are dead? Why offer more than 1 stream when there's nothing else to compare it against? They "won" Starcraft when they won the bid for WCS. Now they can do the bare minimum and all the sheeple in our community will still support them.
The real sucker in this ordeal is Blizzard, for trusting MLG to do a good job after they were handed the key to Starcraft in the Americas. If only someone in Blizzard had the balls to take the key away from them and give it to an organization willing to put in more effort. Wouldn't that be great?
How can you come to the conclusion that their production value has been lowered when the tournament hasn't even begun? You have said nothing but bullshit this entire thread and it is amazing that you haven't been punished for it. You're making assumptions based on nothing, and have just been shitting on MLG and riding NASL's dick constantly.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
On June 01 2013 04:32 RevTiberius wrote: Hm... the price pool is a bit disappointing. I was hoping for many Koreans to participate, but 25k is probably not enough to attract many of the top Koreans...
Oh yeah, because they shower in money in the various lavishing Korean competitions.
lol, what? He's right. It is not cheap to fly from Korea to the US, not to mention other costs, and it is only for a chance to win.
Sure, but they don't have enough better options is what I'm saying. Unless they start mass quitting SC2, that's also an option, of course.
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone.
The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this?
People are slightly more reasonable and don't compare MLG to an event run out of a guys apartment, a massive LAN that would go on with or without SC2 and a production company that has been running SC2 in Korea since launch.
Those European tournaments that you seem diminish with a cheeky attitude actually have the same prize pool as MLG Anaheim, and neither are intended to be the Premier European event. It's likely that they both will have much better production, as well. Not only is it reasonable to compare them in my opinion, it's more than reasonable to criticize MLG for downgrading their production significantly.
Whether you agree with it or not, the Starcraft tournament scene has been destroyed in the Americas. I didn't have to happen, and it's not the fault of WCS. MLG was given the key to putting on a great production for WCS and a great premier tournament. Both are appearing to be very lackluster.
I also blame Blizzard somewhat for not being cautious enough when IPL went down, and for allowing NASL to disappear. They really put everything into MLG without considering that they might be a typical greedy organization that would take advantage of their monopoly. Now we're seeing the results.
My attitude is one that doesn't freak out every time MLG makes an announcement. Every time they put on an event, people lose their minds and jump up and down about how horrible everything is. Last time, people whined because it was an invite only event. This time, its an open bracket only and people whine that their aren't enough invites of top Korean players. People are grumpy that MLG isn't handing out four times as much as Dreamhack, who somehow gets none of this shit, ever.
And me, I am just pumped it is on a weekend I don't have to go to a wedding and my friends are in town.
Seems like a reasonable post to me. However, it is a very big deal to see the only LAN tournament that we know of thus far in the Americas being ridiculously cheap relative to their past, after getting the WCS bid . . . after NASL and IPL get run out of SC2.
Dreamhack doesn't get as much shit because, as mentioned previously, there are tons of high quality tournaments to watch in Europe and Dreamhack puts on a great production regardless. On the other hand, MLG is the tournament in the Americas at the moment and they are clearly taking advantage that position. That's what pisses me and (probably) a fair few others off about this situation. I just want to see them try harder. But they have no reason to try harder. There isn't any competition.
We know nothing about MLG's situation at the moment. Sundance said on SotG that MLG was still in discussions with Blizzard as recently as the day before SC2 at Anaheim was announced. Totalbiscuit said that Blizzard put a $10,000 prize cap on Shoutcraft America. I personally think it's likely MLG wanted a bigger event, while Blizzard is trying to regulate prize pools so that they correspond to WCS points and keep WCS as the biggest event.
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
It's not absurd at all, as they didn't drop Starcraft, they just dropped their production value because they don't have anyone to compete against. Why offer more tournament money when NASL and IPL are dead? Why offer more than 1 stream when there's nothing else to compare it against? They "won" Starcraft when they won the bid for WCS. Now they can do the bare minimum and all the sheeple in our community will still support them.
The real sucker in this ordeal is Blizzard, for trusting MLG to do a good job after they were handed the key to Starcraft in the Americas. If only someone in Blizzard had the balls to take the key away from them and give it to an organization willing to put in more effort. Wouldn't that be great?
How can you come to the conclusion that their production value has been lowered when the tournament hasn't even begun? You have said nothing but bullshit this entire thread and it is amazing that you haven't been punished for it. You're making assumptions based on nothing, and have just been shitting on MLG and riding NASL's dick constantly.
Conclusion that production value has been lowered based on the MLG press release:
1. Reduced streams to 1
2. Reduced casted games to 25
3. Reduced prize pool by nearly 1/2
4. Reduced qualifiers to 128 people.
5. WCS NA production is trash relative to ESL, which had the same amount of time and money from Blizzard to put their event together. Not directly related to Anaheim, but we can probably infer something from it.
You don't have to agree with me, or facts at all. But if you're raging hard enough to start insinuating a person should be banned for having a different view than yours, then I think you may need to seek help.
Format is a mixed reaction, because I like the revisiting of open brackets, but one stream and some players who may not be as "qualified" may be problematic. Plus the prize pool being reduced greatly hurts.
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
It's not absurd at all, as they didn't drop Starcraft, they just dropped their production value because they don't have anyone to compete against. Why offer more tournament money when NASL and IPL are dead? Why offer more than 1 stream when there's nothing else to compare it against? They "won" Starcraft when they won the bid for WCS. Now they can do the bare minimum and all the sheeple in our community will still support them.
The real sucker in this ordeal is Blizzard, for trusting MLG to do a good job after they were handed the key to Starcraft in the Americas. If only someone in Blizzard had the balls to take the key away from them and give it to an organization willing to put in more effort. Wouldn't that be great?
How can you come to the conclusion that their production value has been lowered when the tournament hasn't even begun? You have said nothing but bullshit this entire thread and it is amazing that you haven't been punished for it. You're making assumptions based on nothing, and have just been shitting on MLG and riding NASL's dick constantly.
Conclusion that production value has been lowered:
1. Reduced streams to 1
2. Reduced casted games to 25
3. Reduced prize pool by nearly 1/2
4. Reduced qualifiers to 128 people.
5. WCS NA production is trash relative to ESL, which had the same amount of time and money from Blizzard to put their event together. Not directly related to Anaheim, but we can probably infer something from it.
You don't have to agree with me, or facts at all. But if you're raging hard enough to start insinuating a person should be banned for having a different view than yours, then I think you may need to seek help.
Lets go point by point
1: Extra streams may not have been worth it. I can only watch one at a time and there is nothing worse that 3 streams with spinning logos.
2: 25 sets of games is fine as long as they are between good players and we get results and highlights from other games. I can only watch one stream.
3: Everyone is giving out less money this year, likely because they gave out to much last year.
4: 512 people didn't get them much, beyond costing them more money. None of the qualifier games are streamed, so I lose nothing.
5: ESL was producing LCS before MLG and has a functioning studio and production team on staff. MLG did not because no one hired them to do that. It takes time to staff up and WCS did not provide anyone with time. ESL is taking both Blizzard AND Riots money to put on WCS and LCS.
So, in may ways you are just oversimplifying the "fact" to back up your opinion. Opinions are fine, but don't act like yours in the word of the land and people who disagree with you strongly need help.
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
It's not absurd at all, as they didn't drop Starcraft, they just dropped their production value because they don't have anyone to compete against. Why offer more tournament money when NASL and IPL are dead? Why offer more than 1 stream when there's nothing else to compare it against? They "won" Starcraft when they won the bid for WCS. Now they can do the bare minimum and all the sheeple in our community will still support them.
The real sucker in this ordeal is Blizzard, for trusting MLG to do a good job after they were handed the key to Starcraft in the Americas. If only someone in Blizzard had the balls to take the key away from them and give it to an organization willing to put in more effort. Wouldn't that be great?
How can you come to the conclusion that their production value has been lowered when the tournament hasn't even begun? You have said nothing but bullshit this entire thread and it is amazing that you haven't been punished for it. You're making assumptions based on nothing, and have just been shitting on MLG and riding NASL's dick constantly.
Conclusion that production value has been lowered:
1. Reduced streams to 1
2. Reduced casted games to 25
3. Reduced prize pool by nearly 1/2
4. Reduced qualifiers to 128 people.
5. WCS NA production is trash relative to ESL, which had the same amount of time and money from Blizzard to put their event together. Not directly related to Anaheim, but we can probably infer something from it.
You don't have to agree with me, or facts at all. But if you're raging hard enough to start insinuating a person should be banned for having a different view than yours, then I think you may need to seek help.
Lets go point by point
1: Extra streams may not have been worth it. I can only watch one at a time and there is nothing worse that 3 streams with spinning logos.
2: 25 sets of games is fine as long as they are between good players and we get results and highlights from other games. I can only watch one stream.
3: Everyone is giving out less money this year, likely because they gave out to much last year.
4: 512 people didn't get them much, beyond costing them more money. None of the qualifier games are streamed, so I lose nothing.
5: ESL was producing LCS before MLG and has a functioning studio and production team on staff. MLG did not because no one hired them to do that. It takes time to staff up and WCS did not provide anyone with time. ESL is taking both Blizzard AND Riots money to put on WCS and LCS.
So, in may ways you are just oversimplifying the "fact" to back up your opinion. Opinions are fine, but don't act like yours in the word of the land and people who disagree with you strongly need help.
Plansix, you make a good point with ESL producing LCS before MLG. However, the rest of your evaluations of the facts that I listed are just. . . your opinion and speculation trying to justify them. It doesn't change the nature of what they are.
I agree that we can, as a community, choose to look at the cuts to MLG's production and justify them. I think that would be a big mistake. If it ended up somehow working for the better, I would support it. I just can't imagine it turning out like that. And though I am outspoken about this, I don't think I am alone in thinking that this new format/production-cut is bad news for us in the Americas.
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
It's not absurd at all, as they didn't drop Starcraft, they just dropped their production value because they don't have anyone to compete against. Why offer more tournament money when NASL and IPL are dead? Why offer more than 1 stream when there's nothing else to compare it against? They "won" Starcraft when they won the bid for WCS. Now they can do the bare minimum and all the sheeple in our community will still support them.
The real sucker in this ordeal is Blizzard, for trusting MLG to do a good job after they were handed the key to Starcraft in the Americas. If only someone in Blizzard had the balls to take the key away from them and give it to an organization willing to put in more effort. Wouldn't that be great?
How can you come to the conclusion that their production value has been lowered when the tournament hasn't even begun? You have said nothing but bullshit this entire thread and it is amazing that you haven't been punished for it. You're making assumptions based on nothing, and have just been shitting on MLG and riding NASL's dick constantly.
Conclusion that production value has been lowered based on the MLG press release:
1. Reduced streams to 1
2. Reduced casted games to 25
3. Reduced prize pool by nearly 1/2
4. Reduced qualifiers to 128 people.
5. WCS NA production is trash relative to ESL, which had the same amount of time and money from Blizzard to put their event together. Not directly related to Anaheim, but we can probably infer something from it.
You don't have to agree with me, or facts at all. But if you're raging hard enough to start insinuating a person should be banned for having a different view than yours, then I think you may need to seek help.
I said punished, not banned. And you're basing their LAN production on their studio production which has never been identical to their LAN production. The amount of people allowed to qualify and the prize pool have almost nothing to do with how well the stream/tournament is produced (look at the last Dreamhack, same prize pool, less amount of players).
Only having one stream is pretty bad, I also wonder how many top Koreans will show up at all, kinda disappointed :/
With only one stream they aren't going to have many casters or any if they use the ones they have on pay roll, no TB/Day9/Husky will hurt the hype a lot.
We need some explanation for this, makes no sense. If it's Blizzard screwing us over by forcing MLG to cut back to keep WCS as THE thing then Blizzard are a disgrace. If it's MLG not bothering to try now Blizzard have killed their opposition in the Americas then MLG are a disgrace.
On June 01 2013 04:57 DeathProfessor wrote: The prize pool matters so much because we will be winning it right? heh
Also we should just be happy there is any SC2 at all.
I think if Sundance didn't think it would be gigantically bad PR he would have dropped SC2 and went mix of LoL and CoD:Ghosts. This was the big compromise, less losses, no large footprint and no news story "SC2 dropped from MLG, Blizzard shaken as they got backstabbed by their partner"
2 things: 1, CoD:Ghosts isn't out. 2, SC2 brings in A LOT of viewers, maybe not as much as LoL, but it's still a very huge amount of people (last MLG had about 130k concurrent viewers). So the idea that they would have just dropped SC2 in favor of other games is quite absurd.
It's not absurd at all, as they didn't drop Starcraft, they just dropped their production value because they don't have anyone to compete against. Why offer more tournament money when NASL and IPL are dead? Why offer more than 1 stream when there's nothing else to compare it against? They "won" Starcraft when they won the bid for WCS. Now they can do the bare minimum and all the sheeple in our community will still support them.
The real sucker in this ordeal is Blizzard, for trusting MLG to do a good job after they were handed the key to Starcraft in the Americas. If only someone in Blizzard had the balls to take the key away from them and give it to an organization willing to put in more effort. Wouldn't that be great?
How can you come to the conclusion that their production value has been lowered when the tournament hasn't even begun? You have said nothing but bullshit this entire thread and it is amazing that you haven't been punished for it. You're making assumptions based on nothing, and have just been shitting on MLG and riding NASL's dick constantly.
Conclusion that production value has been lowered based on the MLG press release:
1. Reduced streams to 1
2. Reduced casted games to 25
3. Reduced prize pool by nearly 1/2
4. Reduced qualifiers to 128 people.
5. WCS NA production is trash relative to ESL, which had the same amount of time and money from Blizzard to put their event together. Not directly related to Anaheim, but we can probably infer something from it.
You don't have to agree with me, or facts at all. But if you're raging hard enough to start insinuating a person should be banned for having a different view than yours, then I think you may need to seek help.
I said punished, not banned. And you're basing their LAN production on their studio production which has never been identical to their LAN production. The amount of people allowed to qualify and the prize pool have almost nothing to do with how well the stream/tournament is produced (look at the last Dreamhack, same prize pool, less amount of players).
You are a sadistic one aren't you, desiring punishment for people who disagree with you?
I'm not "basing their LAN production on their studio production" . . . . I said we might "infer" something from it, which is reasonable considering how much shit their getting for WCS NA. On this point I am also willing to concede to Plansix's point on ESL having a head start with LCS.
I simply listed the facts that you accused me of "bullshitting" directly from the press release. If MLG manages to pull off an amazing tournament while reducing their production from previous tournaments, I'll be pleased. However, I think that trusting such a thing to happen considering the cuts they've made is fool-hearty. I also think too many people in the community are willing to accept anything with open arms, regardless of the implications for the future of this game in the Americas.
$25,000? I dont get what is going on, didnt SC2 have really good numbers at MLG winter? How could it be dying? I was expecting this MLG to be all about SC2 and have tons of top korean players. Will there even be kespa players?? Please don't tell me we wont ever see flash, innovation, soulkey, jaedong & co. at MLG again...
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
"StarCraft II Competitor, Spectator and VIP passes for the MLG Spring Championship go on sale Friday, May 31 at 5pm ET in the MLG Store."
So what's going on? I get they were reaching out to top players first, that's understandable, but am I the only one around here wondering if they sold out or started selling to the public? I just woke up 15 mins ago and read the news but see no way to purchase a players pass yet.
On June 01 2013 05:46 Gamegene wrote: They literally put this together at the last minute. They're scrambling for casters right now because MLG wasn't actually going to have SC2 at Anaheim before they started to feel the heat.
Prize pool, organization and player size... Just really sad.
WCS. Moving the scene forward.
I don't think it's the fault of WCS whatsoever. It's the fault of Blizzard for trusting WCS in the hands of MLG. There isn't an issue at all in Europe. Dreamhack and ESL are doing great. Homestory Cup and Asus Rog announced and look wonderful. There isn't an issue in Korea - Kespa and GOM are apparently working it out to the benefit of everyone.
The only problem is in the Americas. The only problem is with MLG. Why can't people see this?
People are slightly more reasonable and don't compare MLG to an event run out of a guys apartment, a massive LAN that would go on with or without SC2 and a production company that has been running SC2 in Korea since launch.
Those European tournaments that you seem diminish with a cheeky attitude actually have the same prize pool as MLG Anaheim, and neither are intended to be the Premier European event. It's likely that they both will have much better production, as well. Not only is it reasonable to compare them in my opinion, it's more than reasonable to criticize MLG for downgrading their production significantly.
Whether you agree with it or not, the Starcraft tournament scene has been destroyed in the Americas. I didn't have to happen, and it's not the fault of WCS. MLG was given the key to putting on a great production for WCS and a great premier tournament. Both are appearing to be very lackluster.
I also blame Blizzard somewhat for not being cautious enough when IPL went down, and for allowing NASL to disappear. They really put everything into MLG without considering that they might be a typical greedy organization that would take advantage of their monopoly. Now we're seeing the results.
My attitude is one that doesn't freak out every time MLG makes an announcement. Every time they put on an event, people lose their minds and jump up and down about how horrible everything is. Last time, people whined because it was an invite only event. This time, its an open bracket only and people whine that their aren't enough invites of top Korean players. People are grumpy that MLG isn't handing out four times as much as Dreamhack, who somehow gets none of this shit, ever.
And me, I am just pumped it is on a weekend I don't have to go to a wedding and my friends are in town.
Seems like a reasonable post to me. However, it is a very big deal to see the only LAN tournament that we know of thus far in the Americas being ridiculously cheap relative to their past, after getting the WCS bid . . . after NASL and IPL get run out of SC2.
Dreamhack doesn't get as much shit because, as mentioned previously, there are tons of high quality tournaments to watch in Europe and Dreamhack puts on a great production regardless. On the other hand, MLG is the tournament in the Americas at the moment and they are clearly taking advantage that position. That's what pisses me and (probably) a fair few others off about this situation. I just want to see them try harder. But they have no reason to try harder. There isn't any competition.
We know nothing about MLG's situation at the moment. Sundance said on SotG that MLG was still in discussions with Blizzard as recently as the day before SC2 at Anaheim was announced. Totalbiscuit said that Blizzard put a $10,000 prize cap on Shoutcraft America. I personally think it's likely MLG wanted a bigger event, while Blizzard is trying to regulate prize pools so that they correspond to WCS points and keep WCS as the biggest event.
It's good to know that WCS has actually LOWERED the amount of money available to players.
I for one like it.. I mean, there is so much going on right now with WCS. I think anything bigger would be overkill. and the prize money.. considering there is now wcs price money I understand that there is not more on the line here. I also think that sc2 is at a point where it will not grow much further. It's all about keeping it at an healthy level now. To much content can cause fatigue and turn people away.
What I want to know is which players will be in attendance. I went last year and had a great time but if it's mainly a bunch of random NA players this time around then I've got no interest in spending the money to make the trip again.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of cost that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role? Imagine paying a few dozen (or more, I don't know) employees, the venue, computers, equipment, travel, etc etc.. it's a massive amount of cash. Unless you're doing the books for one of these companies, you have no room to say it's profitable.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money.
TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think
On June 01 2013 00:22 Shiori wrote: One stream? Lower prize pool? No reservations for top level players? Uh....this could end very, very badly.
they wanted it to be invite only and higher prize pool but blizzard so open bracket or no wcs points and so they countered with an open bracket and less money. bickering among partners is never good for viewers and players
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
If I'm not mistaken, Sundance has said on several occasions that they aren't making a profit. The goal is to get Esports big enough where the investment that they've made will start making these businesses profitable. And not making a profit doesn't mean that the company is a failure. My dad owns a company that for the past 4 years hasn't been profitable, yet they are still able to stay in business and will be able to for the foreseeable future.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money.
TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think
It is a ridiculous sentiment to state that an industry is not profitable because some of the businesses involved failed. If this were the case, the industry would not exist. Investors are not stupid with their money. People do not continually invest in and sponsor Starcraft 2 because it is "not a profitable industry".
The argument being made here is akin to a Pizza Shop owner going out of business and declaring: "Pizza is not a profitable industry, as I went out of business".
I don't think there's anything wrong with being in debt at the beginning of a business. And I agree that some large tournaments may be running on investor money - investors who strongly believe they will be getting a return on their money.
But to assert that the entire industry is not profitable (the assertion was "SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol") is not a viable statement. Lots of companies have made lots of money on SC2 esports. The fact that yo're posting on a website like that of Team Liquid, which has benefited greatly from SC e-sports and is no doubt profitable, is ironic and humorous to me.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved.
Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved.
Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
That's not entirely true, though. As I, and others, pointed out earlier, companies can survive without being profitable. Also, Korea isn't the best example. They LITERALLY were able to profitable because the whole country got on board with BW. With SC2, were trying to get the whole world to get on board, not just a single country. This is going to take significantly more time and money. Which means more time of not being profitable, but that's how a company grows.
Alex @Axeltoss 7m Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv
Looks like there will be more than one stream after all.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved.
Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
That's not entirely true, though. As I, and others, pointed out earlier, companies can survive without being profitable. Also, Korea isn't the best example. They LITERALLY were able to profitable because the whole country got on board with BW. With SC2, were trying to get the whole world to get on board, not just a single country.
Think we agree that some companies can survive without being profitable. However, that doesn't mean all companies in the industry are doing that. It doesn't even mean that most companies in SC2 e-sports are doing that.
Alex @Axeltoss 7m Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv
Looks like there will be more than one stream after all.
Alex @Axeltoss 7m Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv
Looks like there will be more than one stream after all.
Thank goodness. If there's one thing MLG has going for them its Axeltoss/Axslav standing up for common sense.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money.
TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think
It is a ridiculous sentiment to state that an industry is not profitable because some of the businesses involved failed. If this were the case, the industry would not exist. Investors are not stupid with their money. People do not continually invest in and sponsor Starcraft 2 because it is "not a profitable industry".
The argument being made here is akin to a Pizza Shop owner going out of business and declaring: "Pizza is not a profitable industry, as I went out of business".
I don't think there's anything wrong with being in debt at the beginning of a business. And I agree that some large tournaments may be running on investor money - investors who strongly believe they will be getting a return on their money.
But to assert that the entire industry is not profitable (the assertion was "SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol") is not a viable statement. Lots of companies have made lots of money on SC2 esports. The fact that yo're posting on a website like that of Team Liquid, which has benefited greatly from SC e-sports and is no doubt profitable, is ironic and humorous to me.
It is about as reasonable as your argument that MLG is fleecing Blizzard and the community because they have a monopoly and just cutting back on production because they are "a greedy company".
Alex @Axeltoss 7m Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv
Looks like there will be more than one stream after all.
Thank goodness. If there's one thing MLG has going for them its Axeltoss/Axslav standing up for common sense.
I love how you assume that it was just Axeltoss/Axslav standing up to the man and telling Sunny how it is.
If you bought a competitor pass for MLG Anaheim, but may not be able to attend, please let me know! Trying to help a good friend of mine get his hand on a pass, as he has been training really hard in anticipation for this tournament. Willing to pay a marked up price! Just shoot me a PM if you cannot attend/want to sell your pass.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved.
Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
Korean leagues are an entirely separate phenomenon from the boom in foreign tournaments that has accompanied SC2. BW was a national sport in Korea. Not so much in the west.
If you really think the tournaments are recouping tens of millions through ads a d sponsors you're just misinformed. They are financed by investors with the hope of becoming profitable in the future. That hope depends on viewership increasing. We've maxed out at 100k (peak) even after the release of an expansion.
And to be clear, I'm talking only about tournament organizers here, so I shouldn't say no venture in esports is profitable. Though even among teams and players, only a lucky few make money. You think Clarity is making money? Um no, they're operating a team house and their best players (code B koreans) get like 900 viewers max on stream.
And to SCST - this is hardly a new argument I'm making here.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money.
TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think
It is a ridiculous sentiment to state that an industry is not profitable because some of the businesses involved failed. If this were the case, the industry would not exist. Investors are not stupid with their money. People do not continually invest in and sponsor Starcraft 2 because it is "not a profitable industry".
The argument being made here is akin to a Pizza Shop owner going out of business and declaring: "Pizza is not a profitable industry, as I went out of business".
I don't think there's anything wrong with being in debt at the beginning of a business. And I agree that some large tournaments may be running on investor money - investors who strongly believe they will be getting a return on their money.
But to assert that the entire industry is not profitable (the assertion was "SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol") is not a viable statement. Lots of companies have made lots of money on SC2 esports. The fact that yo're posting on a website like that of Team Liquid, which has benefited greatly from SC e-sports and is no doubt profitable, is ironic and humorous to me.
It is about as reasonable as your argument that MLG is fleecing Blizzard and the community because they have a monopoly and just cutting back on production because they are "a greedy company".
Hmm, I got the wrong impression from you. What's the point of making a dig at someone without substance, Plansix? I thought you made some reasonable points earlier to which I gladly conceded, while countering with some of my own. Rather than debating these, it seems you'd rather just make a generalized statement along the lines of: "you're unreasonable". When in fact, I am very reasonable and open-minded.
On the other hand, most of your points were easily countered. I've noticed that when people start attempting to get personal, make short quips and digs without weight, it's usually because they don't feel confident in their argument.
Alex @Axeltoss 7m Lookin for community casters for Anaheim to cover non-main stream games. Experience is good! HD stream is good! Email me arodriguez@mlg.tv
Looks like there will be more than one stream after all.
Thank goodness. If there's one thing MLG has going for them its Axeltoss/Axslav standing up for common sense.
I love how you assume that it was just Axeltoss/Axslav standing up to the man and telling Sunny how it is.
This is definitely an assumption. I'm biased towards this particular casting duo and imagine them coming to the communities rescue. Also, I'd be willing to bet that it's true.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Profitable for KeSPA certainly
It's essential to understand the sheer scale of the companies that sponsor kespa teams. They aren't companies like monster and razer and twitch, they are conglomerates. Look here. That's a HUGE number of companies. SKT had a profit of $13 BILLION dollars in 2010, and that pales in comparison to Samsung making $247.5 billion in 2011. KeSPA teams can afford spending a few million USD (if even that) on a team.
On June 01 2013 06:23 Doodsmack wrote: It's not really the community's place to decry MLG for cutting their SC2 tournament budget. Less players, less money, less streams. Yeah, newsflash, SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol. We're not entitled to get what we want from tournament organizers. They're not dumb, they know whether it's profitable or not. We can be angry all we want but it doesn't change the dollars and cents for MLG.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable and that tournaments from the last few years have been running on "passion" and losing money.
TB (for example) would like to have a word with you i think
It is a ridiculous sentiment to state that an industry is not profitable because some of the businesses involved failed. If this were the case, the industry would not exist. Investors are not stupid with their money. People do not continually invest in and sponsor Starcraft 2 because it is "not a profitable industry".
The argument being made here is akin to a Pizza Shop owner going out of business and declaring: "Pizza is not a profitable industry, as I went out of business".
I don't think there's anything wrong with being in debt at the beginning of a business. And I agree that some large tournaments may be running on investor money - investors who strongly believe they will be getting a return on their money.
But to assert that the entire industry is not profitable (the assertion was "SC2 esports isn't a profitable venture lol") is not a viable statement. Lots of companies have made lots of money on SC2 esports. The fact that yo're posting on a website like that of Team Liquid, which has benefited greatly from SC e-sports and is no doubt profitable, is ironic and humorous to me.
It is about as reasonable as your argument that MLG is fleecing Blizzard and the community because they have a monopoly and just cutting back on production because they are "a greedy company".
Hmm, I got the wrong impression from you. What's the point of making a dig at someone without substance, Plansix? I thought you made some reasonable points earlier to which I gladly conceded, while countering with some of my own. Rather than debating these, it seems you'd rather just make a generalized statement along the lines of: "you're unreasonable". When in fact, I am very reasonable and open-minded.
On the other hand, most of your points were easily countered. I've noticed that when people start attempting to get personal, make short quips and digs without weight, it's usually because they don't feel confident in their argument.
I am confident in my argument that MLG is going to put on a good event and complain to much on the internet. I don't really want to argue, because I remembered that arguing about this is silly. None of us have inside information on the financing of MGL or any proof of how much production they are putting it. I'm going to go get some froyo.
What? SC2 isn't a profitable venture? This is the silliest thing I've heard in a while on here. You're entire post is debunked by your ridiculously false "newsflash".
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved.
Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
Korean leagues are an entirely separate phenomenon from the boom in foreign tournaments that has accompanied SC2. BW was a national sport in Korea. Not so much in the west.
If you really think the tournaments are recouping tens of millions through ads a d sponsors you're just misinformed. They are financed by investors with the hope of becoming profitable in the future. That hope depends on viewership increasing. We've maxed out at 100k (peak) even after the release of an expansion.
And to be clear, I'm talking only about tournament organizers here, so I shouldn't say no venture in esports is profitable. Though even among teams and players, only a lucky few make money. You think Clarity is making money? Um no, they're operating a team house and their best players (code B koreans) get like 900 viewers max on stream.
And to SCST - this is hardly a new argument I'm making here.
It changes things quite dramatically now that you've clarified/altered your original statement. I do think that there are SC2 tournaments that both recoup their losses and are profitable. But I also agree with you, that many tournaments (including MLG) often/likely run a debt until they can become profitable. We can both agree then that SC2 is a viable business industry and that large tournaments tend to have a more difficult time.
On June 01 2013 08:27 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Low prize pool and one stream? Man I would be SO hyped if it weren't for those two factors. We need more good 'ol open bracket tournaments.
Hots release was 3 months ago...according to sc2rankings the weekly player base hasnt moved from 250k....so this is purely a financial decision from mlg. We should be happy hots is even there. As much as i hate to say this, perhaps mr Steven bonnell had a point? We may be the most passionate community, but we're nowhere near the largest revenue base for esports atm.
On June 01 2013 00:22 Shiori wrote: One stream? Lower prize pool? No reservations for top level players? Uh....this could end very, very badly.
they wanted it to be invite only and higher prize pool but blizzard so open bracket or no wcs points and so they countered with an open bracket and less money. bickering among partners is never good for viewers and players
Lets try to look at this from a logical perspective, though I, like a lot of people was first shocked by reading this. Lets consider the state of things.
First off the prize pool, while it is pretty hard to argue that a smaller prize pool is in any way positive MLG is partnered with Blizzard who has control over the largest "tournament or league" and if an MLG had a 25k first place while a WCS region only paid 20k, the legitimacy of that tournament comes into question. "Why compete in the highest league if I can possibly make more at tier 1 event." This isn't to say that the fact they are only using a 25k pool and only paying out prize money to 8th isn't a setback. Would it be better to pay out to say 16th place, obviously, but hey at least they are going out past 3rd or 4th place which a lot of Tier 2ish size events do.
Aside from the money lets look at the format. An open tournament is a lot better than the winter championship which was essentially an invite only tournament. Is 128 the right number? In my opinion 256 would have been a better number but that leads to more Pc's, more time and everything so lets get over that. Would it have been a good idea to at least invite the top 3 finishers from the last MLG and possibly 1 to 5 other top level players? Absolutely, but blizzard wants an "Open" which may lead to some more unknown players getting exposure so we have to deal with it. If things don't go well hopefully mistakes will be learned from.
We are in a world with WCS so that is going to be the highest paying and top level tournament as long as blizzard has a say. Is this going to kill SC2? Very unlikely. Is it going to make it better? That is yet to be seen. We are just going to have to see what happens and hope for the best.
Sorry to burst your bubble but its true. You think ad revenue from 100k viewers (peak for short duration of time) is enough to recoup millions? Remember when David ting said there was a years-long plan to make IPL profitable. These tournaments are financed by investors.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved.
Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
Korean leagues are an entirely separate phenomenon from the boom in foreign tournaments that has accompanied SC2. BW was a national sport in Korea. Not so much in the west.
If you really think the tournaments are recouping tens of millions through ads a d sponsors you're just misinformed. They are financed by investors with the hope of becoming profitable in the future. That hope depends on viewership increasing. We've maxed out at 100k (peak) even after the release of an expansion.
And to be clear, I'm talking only about tournament organizers here, so I shouldn't say no venture in esports is profitable. Though even among teams and players, only a lucky few make money. You think Clarity is making money? Um no, they're operating a team house and their best players (code B koreans) get like 900 viewers max on stream.
And to SCST - this is hardly a new argument I'm making here.
We can both agree then that SC2 is a viable business industry
It's highly questionable bro. EG and Liquid are profitable...who else? You brought up Red Bull - there's a reason they're not doing any more tournaments. I wouldn't invest a dime in this industry lol.
jesus you guys complain a lot. WCS is the mainstage right now and tournaments are trying to work around it. We don't need so much hate going around. MLG is trying something, they are doing an open bracket smaller affair as of right now. Personally I think that this is going to be a great idea once they change a few things. Add a couple more streams, get some great players in, and they have a tournament. Also, I feel like the prize pool shouldn't be a worry for us as fans. All we need to do is tune in. Also, we don't need to have arguments about whether destiny was right in this thread, I hate it when naysayers spread disillusionment with something that is going well right now. Seriously, be happy this is happening, just a little while ago, it was much smaller, even with much less competition.
(Probably) no KESPA players, (probably) no EU players - no reason to watch. At least I won't have to be awake till 6AM like I used to be for some of the MLGs...
On June 01 2013 14:01 docvoc wrote:Also, I feel like the prize pool shouldn't be a worry for us as fans. All we need to do is tune in. Also, we don't need to have arguments about whether destiny was right in this thread, I hate it when naysayers spread disillusionment with something that is going well right now. Seriously, be happy this is happening, just a little while ago, it was much smaller, even with much less competition.
1) So we shouldn't care about the status of a tournament at all? Tournaments should just go "yes we are having a tournament" and we should be happy with it?
2) It's only disillusionment if it isn't going well and people don't see that-with both IPL folding and presumably NASL bowing out, alongside a shrinking non-WCS MLG, how do you expect to say that it's going well? When MLG Spring championships 2012 gave more prize money for 1st/2nd/3rd and was only $26,500 off from total prize of a WCS season, with the addition of both MLG Spring Arenas you get $37,300. Oh, and the championship had a 128-person open bracket in addition to the championship groups! :o
On June 01 2013 14:26 Ammanas wrote: (Probably) no KESPA players, (probably) no EU players - no reason to watch. At least I won't have to be awake till 6AM like I used to be for some of the MLGs...
Stephano's coming...I can imagine more EU/Koreans are but not sure about the KeSPA's best...
On June 01 2013 14:01 docvoc wrote: jesus you guys complain a lot. WCS is the mainstage right now and tournaments are trying to work around it. We don't need so much hate going around. MLG is trying something, they are doing an open bracket smaller affair as of right now. Personally I think that this is going to be a great idea once they change a few things. Add a couple more streams, get some great players in, and they have a tournament. Also, I feel like the prize pool shouldn't be a worry for us as fans. All we need to do is tune in. Also, we don't need to have arguments about whether destiny was right in this thread, I hate it when naysayers spread disillusionment with something that is going well right now. Seriously, be happy this is happening, just a little while ago, it was much smaller, even with much less competition.
Going well? C'mon mate, I'm not agreeing with the doomsayers, however, you can't honestly believe that the scene is where it should be only 3 months into hots. I don't know what the solution is, but having a 128 player open bracket $25k tourney with 1 stream only showing a small portion of the games blah blah...you see where this is going? I agree, we should happy hots is at mlg at all! But we shouldn't be happy about the 'niche' we're being squeezed into.
Sure, MLG could do a much better job of having multiple streams going with such a large pool of players. However, it's also great to see them bring back the open bracket! Everybody should be able to sign up so long as you're in Master's league.
On June 01 2013 14:26 Ammanas wrote: (Probably) no KESPA players, (probably) no EU players - no reason to watch. At least I won't have to be awake till 6AM like I used to be for some of the MLGs...
Remember Kespa and MLG have that deal, I don't think MLG would be happy if none of them came
If they do another "first come first serve" open bracket - like they did in the WCS qualifiers - this will end badly and someone with enough "power" behind him should talk some sense into the MLG organizers ...
On June 01 2013 16:41 iDaNkS wrote: how can you sign up and play at MLG anaheim if its open bracket?
Open bracket is composed of people signing up
It was first come, first serve after giving spots to top priority players first. The remaining competitor passes which were open to the public sold out in less than a min.
Aw, is it usually sold out? Thinking of driving down there
I don't think it was last year. It was packed at times, a lot of people were sitting on the floor. Tickets are $35 online, $50 at the door.
I think one thing we can all agree on is that it would be beneficial to arrange some more streams with foreign partners just like it was done with Dreamhack. I loved switching between empire streams in russian and the english streams.
One stream is just not enough for early stages. Sure the quality of games might not be the best, but entertainment value would be there.
In the worst case scenario provide a 2nd stream without any commentary at all.
Ad revenue? Haven't you heard of sponsorships man? Hot pockets? Monster? Intel etc? Hell, Redbull even decided last year that they wanted to sponsor an entire SC2 tournament just for themselves.
Could teams afford to pay players nice salaries if SC2 wasn't a profitable industry? Are you trying to say that there's a conspiracy here that Blizzard is propping up every single tournament, or that every single tournament for the last few years has "accidentally" misjudged the return on their investments and is continually producing tournaments while losing money?
My tax professor last year used to work for a company that had not made profit for 13 years straight, and he was down about 130 million dollars. Why did he do it anyway? It was his passion, and he wa sa rich mofo, and could take the hit. From the outside you might just assume he's doing well, since he employs X amount of people, pays them lots, and he himself is filthy rich, but that wouldn't be accurate at all.
Also, not many teams pay their players a "nice" salary.
You have no idea what kind of costs it takes to run a tournament, or how much sponsors give to the organisers. Remember a year or two ago, Incontrol said Day9 was paid 20k to cast a Dreamhack? Can you comprehend what kind of the that is? 20k for a single person that does a single role?
I am astounded that there is more than 1 person on here who thinks SC2 is not profitable.
You are in the FAR minority that thinks it is profitable.
Someone somewhere MUST be making a return on their investments or ESPORTS would be dead by now. There are profits, somewhere. Or have ~10 years of proleague been not profitable?
Korean Esports has been isolated from the rest of the world up until 3ish years ago (SC2 launch), so while they probably were profitable, it doesn't mean that other companies are.
Merely using them as a point. Proleague has been around for 10 years, if the industry wasn't profitable it wouldn't still be here. The starcraft scene would be dead if it wasn't profitable in some way. That's just business. Even in Starcraft II's nearly 3 (?) years of release the professional scene has had plenty of time to die if it wasn't profitable to those involved.
Clearly some companies don't make a profit (RIP IPL) but that doesn't mean SC isn't profitable.
Korean leagues are an entirely separate phenomenon from the boom in foreign tournaments that has accompanied SC2. BW was a national sport in Korea. Not so much in the west.
If you really think the tournaments are recouping tens of millions through ads a d sponsors you're just misinformed. They are financed by investors with the hope of becoming profitable in the future. That hope depends on viewership increasing. We've maxed out at 100k (peak) even after the release of an expansion.
And to be clear, I'm talking only about tournament organizers here, so I shouldn't say no venture in esports is profitable. Though even among teams and players, only a lucky few make money. You think Clarity is making money? Um no, they're operating a team house and their best players (code B koreans) get like 900 viewers max on stream.
And to SCST - this is hardly a new argument I'm making here.
We can both agree then that SC2 is a viable business industry
It's highly questionable bro. EG and Liquid are profitable...who else? You brought up Red Bull - there's a reason they're not doing any more tournaments. I wouldn't invest a dime in this industry lol.
in 45 days, we will know if redbull stick with sc2, or if life will go to any kespa team.
On June 01 2013 14:01 docvoc wrote: jesus you guys complain a lot. WCS is the mainstage right now and tournaments are trying to work around it. We don't need so much hate going around. MLG is trying something, they are doing an open bracket smaller affair as of right now. Personally I think that this is going to be a great idea once they change a few things. Add a couple more streams, get some great players in, and they have a tournament. Also, I feel like the prize pool shouldn't be a worry for us as fans. All we need to do is tune in. Also, we don't need to have arguments about whether destiny was right in this thread, I hate it when naysayers spread disillusionment with something that is going well right now. Seriously, be happy this is happening, just a little while ago, it was much smaller, even with much less competition.
Going well? C'mon mate, I'm not agreeing with the doomsayers, however, you can't honestly believe that the scene is where it should be only 3 months into hots. I don't know what the solution is, but having a 128 player open bracket $25k tourney with 1 stream only showing a small portion of the games blah blah...you see where this is going? I agree, we should happy hots is at mlg at all! But we shouldn't be happy about the 'niche' we're being squeezed into.
I don't know why we should be happy MLG has HOTS at all. MLG has fucked up WCS NA to the point where I'd rather them just bow out and let NASL take over. They have shown repeatedly that they're happy with the production values of a year ago when ESL/Dreamhack/Ironsquid/fucking HSC and GOMTV regularly shit all over them, and they've done nothing but act like we should be grateful that they're giving us games to watch.
MLG aren't some harbingers of greatness that will save the NA scene or SC2 in general. To say we should be thankful of them is ridiculous. I'll be thankful when they manage to go a tournament without resting on their laurels or half-assing it and acting like we're the assholes for wondering when they will actually keep their promises for once.
On June 01 2013 14:01 docvoc wrote: jesus you guys complain a lot. WCS is the mainstage right now and tournaments are trying to work around it. We don't need so much hate going around. MLG is trying something, they are doing an open bracket smaller affair as of right now. Personally I think that this is going to be a great idea once they change a few things. Add a couple more streams, get some great players in, and they have a tournament. Also, I feel like the prize pool shouldn't be a worry for us as fans. All we need to do is tune in. Also, we don't need to have arguments about whether destiny was right in this thread, I hate it when naysayers spread disillusionment with something that is going well right now. Seriously, be happy this is happening, just a little while ago, it was much smaller, even with much less competition.
Going well? C'mon mate, I'm not agreeing with the doomsayers, however, you can't honestly believe that the scene is where it should be only 3 months into hots. I don't know what the solution is, but having a 128 player open bracket $25k tourney with 1 stream only showing a small portion of the games blah blah...you see where this is going? I agree, we should happy hots is at mlg at all! But we shouldn't be happy about the 'niche' we're being squeezed into.
I'm definitely not saying its the best situation ever. But right now, at least in the thread, I'm seeing some of the sc2 is dying and destiny was right, etc. people. I'm not going to say I wouldn't change anything about this, I am going to say that if we keep positive and ask for changes maybe they will come, rather than the bitching that we are seeing. I get the dissatisfaction, but I don't get the bitching; if we are unhappy, rather than complaining or saying sc2 is dying, we should ask them to make changes.
I'm going to be there as I live 30 min away. I don't actually mind the MLG event format or lower prize pool or even the 1 official stream. My biggest beef is the event details coming out soooo late and lack of confirmation that it even was going to happen. If all the current details were known 6 mo ago nobody would be complaining as it would be just chalked up to changes because of WCS. Now its a topic. The only big thing other is I wish was that they had the best casters for that 1 main stream (Ax and Ax aren't bad but they aren't the best. Apollo, Artosis would be my choice).
On June 02 2013 19:02 Cereb wrote: The Open Bracket - Brought to you by Blizzard and their WCS "Making it harder to organize tournaments since 2013"
Isnt that rather MLG's faul ... errr speciality ... instead of BLizzard?
Blizz and MLG were locked in a battle over WCS points, which is why this is so delayed and most likely the reason that there is only one stream and a lower prize pool.
MLG weren't kidding when they said they were going to get smaller. Unless this is just a small taste for what they have in store for 2013, it is going to be massively disappointing compared to 2012. Fewers streams, less prize pool, (potentially) fewer top casters.
If I've been remotely able to I've stayed up all night for essentially all MLG events for the last two years. The only reason I would do it for this one is if one of my absolutely favourite players look like having a great event.
On June 02 2013 19:02 Cereb wrote: The Open Bracket - Brought to you by Blizzard and their WCS "Making it harder to organize tournaments since 2013"
Isnt that rather MLG's faul ... errr speciality ... instead of BLizzard?
Blizz and MLG were locked in a battle over WCS points, which is why this is so delayed and most likely the reason that there is only one stream and a lower prize pool.
How did this rumor even start? Blizzard never asked us to bring back the open bracket.
I must say, now I really dislike this year's WCS format. DH is the only major tournament left besides WCS right now. Compare it to 2012: We had 4 big MLGs with several smaller but important and recognized arenas. We had 2 big IPLs, constant IEMs, ASUS, 5 GSLs and WCS on top of that. Now we have 3 seasons of WCS and DH. we go down from more than 20 major tournaments to around 10. From a player's perspective that really sucks, because it's really hard to place in the money and with these little opportunities. For up and coming players there are way less possibilities to break through and for teams there is much less exposure. I feel Blizzard made SC2 esports taking a big step down while still investing lots of money through it. I feel like that whole project went totally wrong!
On June 03 2013 04:07 MLG_Adam wrote: How did this rumor even start? Blizzard never asked us to bring back the open bracket.
It's been going around for a few weeks now. Can you share any more of the details as to why this tournament wasnt finalized but a month before it's taking place and why there are no reserved spots for top Pros?
On June 02 2013 19:02 Cereb wrote: The Open Bracket - Brought to you by Blizzard and their WCS "Making it harder to organize tournaments since 2013"
Isnt that rather MLG's faul ... errr speciality ... instead of BLizzard?
Blizz and MLG were locked in a battle over WCS points, which is why this is so delayed and most likely the reason that there is only one stream and a lower prize pool.
How did this rumor even start? Blizzard never asked us to bring back the open bracket.
Inside the Game from last week, it came from Suppy who claimed he heard that MLG was considering an invite only event, but found out from Blizzard at a open bracket was required to get WCS points. That is where I first heard it.
On June 03 2013 04:18 TeeTS wrote: I must say, now I really dislike this year's WCS format. DH is the only major tournament left besides WCS right now. Compare it to 2012: We had 4 big MLGs with several smaller but important and recognized arenas. We had 2 big IPLs, constant IEMs, ASUS, 5 GSLs and WCS on top of that. Now we have 3 seasons of WCS and DH. we go down from more than 20 major tournaments to around 10. From a player's perspective that really sucks, because it's really hard to place in the money and with these little opportunities. For up and coming players there are way less possibilities to break through and for teams there is much less exposure. I feel Blizzard made SC2 esports taking a big step down while still investing lots of money through it. I feel like that whole project went totally wrong!
I actually feel the opposite. I felt like we had way too many tournaments in 2012 and having ~10 tournaments in a year is great. Keeps spectators excited for each tournament and not have a over saturation. I'm not sure how players feel about less tournaments but this will allow more quality games to be brought to the tables with proper practice for each tournament. Allows everyone to bring their S game. (lol SNM) Just some of my thoughts.
On June 02 2013 19:02 Cereb wrote: The Open Bracket - Brought to you by Blizzard and their WCS "Making it harder to organize tournaments since 2013"
Isnt that rather MLG's faul ... errr speciality ... instead of BLizzard?
Blizz and MLG were locked in a battle over WCS points, which is why this is so delayed and most likely the reason that there is only one stream and a lower prize pool.
How did this rumor even start? Blizzard never asked us to bring back the open bracket.
Blizzard asking you to bring back the open bracket isn't the rumor. I assume you know this, though.
Please, please, please release the replays for this! Blizzard has fixed the old WoL security risks regarding adding user id's from replays and flooding them/inviting them to tons of chat channels causing them to lag in game. To my understanding this was the primary reason we were told as to why we stopped getting replays.
Without streams covering the open bracket tons of great games will be lost forever without reps. Lots of good players are going to travel in and will be playing in the open bracket.
No group stage might be interesting for this actually, if it's truly only knock-outs, like the FA Cup or other national Football cup, but it should probably have more than two streams (maybe even allow other people to stream it but take a share of their revenue from viewers?) and low prize pool might be a bit .
Please, please, please release the replays for this! Blizzard has fixed the old WoL security risks regarding adding user id's from replays and flooding them/inviting them to tons of chat channels causing them to lag in game. To my understanding this was the primary reason we were told as to why we stopped getting replays.
Without streams covering the open bracket tons of great games will be lost forever without reps. Lots of good players are going to travel in and will be playing in the open bracket.
With how few offline tournaments we have in the US this year, I expect a massive audience for this. Anything else would suck hard for the US SC2 scene.
If Flash is going to the 2013 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games which is in June 29 in Korea, then he can't go to MLG which is at the same time.
For those who don't know, Flash is the only one who is 'qualified' and is going to the 2013 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games, because other players think that it has no prize money so they chose not to go.
On June 05 2013 14:29 larse wrote: OK. I just got this information.
If Flash is going to the 2013 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games which is in June 29 in Korea, then he can't go to MLG which is at the same time.
For those who don't know, Flash is the only one who is 'qualified' and is going to the 2013 Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games, because other players think that it has no prize money so they chose not to go.
Neither Flash nor Life going, really disappointing me. I almost paid someone to make Flash and/or Life posters but made them wait in case this not-going of theirs happened. I might just stay home and watch the Asian Indoor and Martial Arts Games instead. Or go to Anaheim for the other games...
EPT
. So get in touch asap, if you are serious.
