EPTWarp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 25
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
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archwaykitten
90 Posts
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. | ||
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VirtuallyJesse
United States398 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
No good players really use the test maps anyway and it just gives them a way to say, "hey, but we've tried". | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
Been thinking about how increase load capacity on WPs or even a new separate dropship for Ps would do. And I also think zerg droptech should maybe be slightly more accessible and/or buffed in some way. But any buff is a good buff as far as Im concerned. | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:31 Thieving Magpie wrote: Tech tree different. Speedlings is harass for Hatch tech Muta is harass for Lair tech Hive does not have a harass option and hence needs one. Comparing hatch/lair to robo/stargate is pretty misleading. Furthermore, speedlings cannot fly over to the enemy's main mineral line and bash on their probes. I propose that hydras are given titanium springs within the lore so they can jump up onto the main and harass toss on two bases. Poking the forge/gateway/pylons at the nat choke does NOT count as harass. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15686 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote: I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them. Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. | ||
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nachtkap
Germany195 Posts
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:41 Mohdoo wrote: Mutas, Medivacs, Warp prisms. Each race with a good harassment and other secondary forms. Right now, P just doesn't have nearly what the other races have. Yeah, let's forget about those Oracles. 2hitting a worker with an insane movement and attack speed is just too bad. | ||
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Phoenix2003
126 Posts
On May 29 2013 05:41 Crownlol wrote: Man, so many scumbag Z and T in here: "Protoss is boring to play against, they just mass and a move" "Don't give Protoss any buffz!" "Protoss players are worse, that's why they aren't doing well" "Don't give Protoss any micro-intensive units!" Edit - Make Charge researched at Cybercore, put it more in line with Stim and Conc. Couldn't agree more, fella. First they complain Toss is too 1 dimensional and boring. But when Toss attempts to get something that helps us P players get away from lame ass playstyles, T/Z QQ to Hell and back. Terran and Zerg players are truly the scum of the earth. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15686 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:44 TeeTS wrote: Yeah, let's forget about those Oracles. 2hitting a worker with an insane movement and attack speed is just too bad. The 3 things I mentioned are able to be used despite static defense, which does not fit the oracle or banshee. Its a very hit or miss unit, whereas lots of mutas, lots of medivacs, or big warp prism warp ins are pretty much guaranteed effective in most situations. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:19 Xequecal wrote: +1 damage on stalkers means that +1 stalkers 3-shot lings, and that's a real serious problem. That's not really much of a problem since +1 Zealots already 2 shot lings and can survive their attacks easier (same armor, smaller surface area when surrounded) The problem is combat roles. Why would you give increased damage to the general utility unit when the Zealot+forcefield (and zealot+charge) is already the main damage option given to Protoss. Dragoons were "special" because they outranged everything but siege tanks. They could hit bunkers safely against terran and they were fast enough (and the ai was glitchy enough) for them to keep away from lings vs zerg. This allowed them to be aggressive despite their low damage (10 vs small, 15 vs medium, 20 vs large which makes them only have better damage than stalkers vs massive units). Stalkers do it differently, they have low range but increased mobility (blink). The question for them has to be "how does a unit of this design help an army" I think emphasizing what stalkers already do is a much better decision than "patching up" what they can't do. Why give stalkers more damage when damage is not what they're supposed to be good at? But imagine if they were given a slight speed boost and a speed boost upgrade at the Dark Shrine? What if Stalkers *were* as mobile as Mutalisks once we got to the lategame? People keep getting stuck on trying to make units do things they're not designed to do leading to silly suggestions such as allowing stalkers to 3 shot lings. Ask what a unit already does--then ask how that role could be improved. | ||
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
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bananafone
68 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:18 Ansinjunger wrote: I'm more worried about Colossus in my base while I have a small number of units out trying to chase down a speed prism. They'll hit earlier, which means stim and vikings/medivacs (needed to heal up the harassed bio units that survive) are even further away. Protoss needs more micro/multi-tasking and less deathball, but this is an early game nightmare for terrans with no viable solution aside from knowing it's coming way ahead of time, which just isn't possible. Planting 4 turrets because you think it's going to happen because you saw an early second gas is a complete shot in the dark. I can just see a couple zealots being ferried into my main mineral line while the Warp prisms returns with a Colossus harassing the natural, while I have my still very small army, and likely marine heavy, trying to chase down a colossus in one place and a couple zealots in another. Attacking the Protoss base at this point will never work, as the Prism can get the Colossus back with time to spare. one widow mine shot deals 160 damage to a protoss unit. This puts the prism at 40 health. First time is all good fun, it will propably go away and live, but it sure as shit is not coming back with a collosus in it. Because the second widow mine shot one shots it, along with everything in it. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:44 TeeTS wrote: Yeah, let's forget about those Oracles. 2hitting a worker with an insane movement and attack speed is just too bad. Playing in Grandmaster, players just stop oracles really easily. Against zerg it won't even work vs a zerg who doesn't scouted it, he could just pull drones and kill it with 2 queens, pulling one of them from an other base. Against terran oracles only used as all in from 1 base, at max try to proxy oracle and then expand but still it's not that hard to stop. In PvP, oracle seems to be the most deadly. But still only 1-2 oracles to try to hit an unprepared opponent in early game. While if we look at the other races, mutalisks and medievacs are a reliable non gimmick way to do harass even if scouted. While oracle is nothing like that and almost not used by now. And sorry if you're bronze and can't deal with oracles, don't cry about imba. This is why warp prism will extremely increase protoss harassment potential, also being a very microable unit, it'll bring a lot of entertainment and skill. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:40 ymir233 wrote: Comparing hatch/lair to robo/stargate is pretty misleading. Furthermore, speedlings cannot fly over to the enemy's main mineral line and bash on their probes. I propose that hydras are given titanium springs within the lore so they can jump up onto the main and harass toss on two bases. Poking the forge/gateway/pylons at the nat choke does NOT count as harass. Zerglings can't fly over cliffs. But zerglings don't need 400-1000 free minerals to deal damage, and is the earliest harass option in the game. The first 10ish minutes of protoss and terran builds is merely answering the question of "how can I survive zerglings" protoss and terran lategame defense design is purely answering the question of "how do I survive zergling runbys. SoS died over and over again vs soulkey simply because his defense against runbys were just not good enough. | ||
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bananafone
68 Posts
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WindCalibur
Canada938 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:47 Mohdoo wrote: The 3 things I mentioned are able to be used despite static defense, which does not fit the oracle or banshee. Its a very hit or miss unit, whereas lots of mutas, lots of medivacs, or big warp prism warp ins are pretty much guaranteed effective in most situations. What are you talking about? Check out hero(CJ entus one) vs BoGuS in proleague. One oracle can reveal and poke at gas mining scvs or building scvs despite the presence of a turret. And news flash: this patch isn't bringing in the new unit called the warp prism, it is buffing it. Protoss already have options to harass using the warp prism, and the question is whether giving protoss this option while the race itself is advantageous late game is a good idea or not. Essentially, you are buffing a race so it is not only strong late game, but strong early game as well... | ||
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