EPTWarp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 24
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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DeathDyingDoomKiller
Canada91 Posts
On May 29 2013 02:31 SupremeHD wrote: really stupid idea, have lings with speed from the start then i call it "balanced" You mean so that Zergs can kill a Gateway with a 6 pool before the Protoss standard 13 gate finishes? Really??? | ||
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oGsTrueSmug
England141 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:06 ymir233 wrote: Because Phoenix don't damage Zerg econ at ALL, right? Different tech route--now protoss can harass if they go Stargate OR if they go Robo Currently Stargate = Harass, Robo = Turtle. This should even out the harass possibilities for both. | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:04 qGSkipper wrote: Colossus drop openings in PvT will now have ranged colossus in the drop since range can be researched earlier. Seems really strong. I'm more worried about Colossus in my base while I have a small number of units out trying to chase down a speed prism. They'll hit earlier, which means stim and vikings/medivacs (needed to heal up the harassed bio units that survive) are even further away. Protoss needs more micro/multi-tasking and less deathball, but this is an early game nightmare for terrans with no viable solution aside from knowing it's coming way ahead of time, which just isn't possible. Planting 4 turrets because you think it's going to happen because you saw an early second gas is a complete shot in the dark. I can just see a couple zealots being ferried into my main mineral line while the Warp prisms returns with a Colossus harassing the natural, while I have my still very small army, and likely marine heavy, trying to chase down a colossus in one place and a couple zealots in another. Attacking the Protoss base at this point will never work, as the Prism can get the Colossus back with time to spare. People will complain about Terran harass, but there are at least options that don't put you way behind economically, such as the Mothership Core and queens, not to mention Zerg is usually ahead economically and can spare a little money for a single spore crawler (supplemented with queens, which help your macro anyway). Furthermore, Terran units are not so beefy as to go unpunished for dropping, whereas a Colossus and Warp Prism can take a ton of punishment, given time to regen shields and their initial health/shield amounts. I'd rather see Medivacs get a 30 second CD on speed, up from 25, than this change. It doesn't serve late game other than to save 100/100 and a relatively fast research. It's not so fast as to make the early game cost and speed of that research negligible though. There's no give and take with respect to micro in this, only giving to the Protoss, allowing timings that are too early to deal with unless you blindly play a slow expansion build. | ||
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purakushi
United States3301 Posts
Buff other races as necessary. Done. Disregarding balance, this allows skill to determine the buff. If a Protoss user is still a-moving his/her Stalkers, it will not really make a difference for them. Stalkers no longer die if hit by one marauder shot. | ||
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Xequecal
United States473 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:11 aZealot wrote: Absolutely. I've long felt this too. So much of the Protoss game is reliant on a melee unit, the zealot. Unfortunately, the Stalker - balanced around Blink - is unable to be the backbone of the Protoss army (in the same way the Dragoon was in BW). I'd like to either see a small buff to Stalker health and base damage stats together with a nerf to Blink (a longer cooldown for instance); or, as you suggest, better upgrades (rather than the paltry +1/0 it currently gets) and a small health buff. A stronger Stalker would, I think, open up more viable small scale engagements for Protoss. +1 damage on stalkers means that +1 stalkers 3-shot lings, and that's a real serious problem. | ||
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Wafflelisk
Canada1061 Posts
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rift
1819 Posts
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On May 29 2013 06:55 Havik_ wrote: LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE this change! Terran got speedvacs, so this is only fair. It will also encourage more WP usage and lets Protoss player with more APM shine. I love the approach Blizzard is taking to balance this time around and I love the buff. Can't wait to see speed prisms flying everywhere :p What does terran get to compensate for MSC and nexus cannon? Not meant as a balance whine, but that kind of thinking is really flawed. | ||
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xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
On May 29 2013 03:00 furerkip wrote: If you're going to buff the warp prism, at least nerf HTs or Colossi so Protoss units can't just choose to clump and send small units out at a time... I mean, TvP is really hard as it is for late game, so please don't just buff early game Protoss without making a slight weakness in their late game. EDIT: A less whiny version of this is that if Protoss early game is actually going to be buffed, can we make them less dependent on Colossi/HTs so it's not just going to be a powerful Protoss through out the game. Besides, the Warp Prism speed buff will definitely help Protoss late game as well, so why not weaken late game Protoss as well. Can we not think in terms of nerfs?If we could somehow buff T lategame against P that would be very cool. For instance making mech viable. The idea someone else posted of having tanks deal extra damage to shields is pretty awesome imo. On topic: I shudder with glee as I imagine the storm drops Rain can do, and I can practice  | ||
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PoesMiAUW
Netherlands7 Posts
) So not sure if Protoss actually needs a buff right now or just some more time. That being said I would rather see this as either an upgrade on the core with low costs and low research time or an upgrade that kicks in when the robo bay is done. This will discourage all the new nonsense all-ins that will probably be discovered right now. And will promote more sensible decision making in the mid game that will make the game more interesting. Plus more possible unit compositions in mid game (storm first pvt into storm drops for example) Protoss has become too all-in focused lately and this only bolsters our endless arsenal of all-ins which I personally find boring to execute and boring to watch as well........ Overall it seems to me that the new units added to HotS and now this new speed buff makes winning too easy. Starcraft used to be about making a lot of decisions that would either win you the game or would lose you the game, nowadays it's 1 maybe 2 decisions that will win/lose you the game. The harass potential has become too strong across the board. There should be other ways to make players play more aggressive than give all races units that can kill a mineral line in 2 seconds........ (oracle/speedvac/hellbat/widow mine/dt/speedprism/muta's). But to be honest I think WoL with the infestor nerf would have been the best variant of starcraft 2. | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:17 Thieving Magpie wrote: Different tech route--now protoss can harass if they go Stargate OR if they go Robo Currently Stargate = Harass, Robo = Turtle. This should even out the harass possibilities for both. Then since mutas are fine with harassing, allow roaches and infestors to jump over cliffs so Zergs can have a harass opportunity that negates the defender's advantage on 2 bases regardless of whichever tech Zergs go. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. | ||
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eXdeath
France66 Posts
Buff micro/multitask units and nerf/redesign boring units is what Protoss needs! | ||
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Thallis
United States314 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:19 Wafflelisk wrote: So what'll Proleague become after this? They'll probably change the maps to try and make them more Zerg and Terran favored. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:22 ymir233 wrote: Then since mutas are fine with harassing, allow roaches and infestors to jump over cliffs so Zergs can have a harass opportunity that negates the defender's advantage on 2 bases regardless of whichever tech Zergs go. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. Tech tree different. Speedlings is harass for Hatch tech Muta is harass for Lair tech Hive does not have a harass option and hence needs one. | ||
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
On May 29 2013 07:20 Bagi wrote: What does terran get to compensate for MSC and nexus cannon? Not meant as a balance whine, but that kind of thinking is really flawed. Nexus cannon was introduced to compensate for the early game weakness to pressure. It's clear the terran already have some decent defense and it was the protoss who need the improvement. As for drops, if the drop is 2 medievacs or more, nexus cannon is significantly weaker and you can now afford to commit to such big drops with the new speed, if the protoss defends it's not like you can't play a macro game against protoss. You're not supposed to just go and kill protoss with a drop or two, that'll be really imbalanced. | ||
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