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Prism 4gate how did i miss you.
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On May 29 2013 07:53 WindCalibur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:47 Mohdoo wrote:On May 29 2013 07:44 TeeTS wrote:On May 29 2013 07:41 Mohdoo wrote:
Mutas, Medivacs, Warp prisms. Each race with a good harassment and other secondary forms. Right now, P just doesn't have nearly what the other races have. Yeah, let's forget about those Oracles. 2hitting a worker with an insane movement and attack speed is just too bad. The 3 things I mentioned are able to be used despite static defense, which does not fit the oracle or banshee. Its a very hit or miss unit, whereas lots of mutas, lots of medivacs, or big warp prism warp ins are pretty much guaranteed effective in most situations. What are you talking about? Check out hero(CJ entus one) vs BoGuS in proleague. One oracle can reveal and poke at gas mining scvs or building scvs despite the presence of a turret. And news flash: this patch isn't bringing in the new unit called the warp prism, it is buffing it. Protoss already have options to harass using the warp prism, and the question is whether giving protoss this option while the race itself is advantageous late game is a good idea or not. Essentially, you are buffing a race so it is not only strong late game, but strong early game as well...
I second this comment. Protoss lategame already has speed prisms while immortal all ins don't use prisms for their mobility. The only thing this changes is when protoss want to turtle while teching colossus, they can now leave their base with a squad of units to harass.
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Anything that promotes smaller and more frequent engagements rather than deathball play, I’m all for.
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On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage.
The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins.
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On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins.
2 hellbats does wipe out a mineral line in 2-3 attacks. The same is not true for a protoss player warping in sentries...
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On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins.
You're now giving me evil ideas. lol
I guess we'll wait and see how it turns out.
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On May 29 2013 08:05 Adonminus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins. You're now giving me evil ideas. lol I guess we'll wait and see how it turns out.
Counter: Medivacs
Be sure to warp in Stalkers in order to counter the counter. 
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On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins.
But that can happen now, right? Speed doesn't necessarily change that? Other than it gets there a little earlier.
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Stuuuuupid.
Either increase the medivac Afterburners ability cooldown or (better) do something like make Pneumatised Carapace make overlords move at 2.95 speed or something so all races have faster dropships available, then sure, make Warp Prisms faster by default.
Myaahahaarrrr, don't like this.
Oracle buff idea was worse though, making it easier for worse players to keep them alive when they already have 160 life anyway.
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On May 29 2013 08:06 p1cKLes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins. But that can happen now, right? Speed doesn't necessarily change that? Other than it gets there a little earlier.
Doesn't really get there earlier--the hard part is mining the 400-600 gas needed to make enough sentries to "forcefield" the ramp while having enough forcefields to manage the main (if it has units defending) or to even just stop workers from running away from slow zealots. If you make stalkers instead the rush is delayed as you're now making stalkers and sentries while teching to robo.
It does make escaping easier--which I approve of since it makes the attack less risky.
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On May 29 2013 08:06 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 08:05 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins. You're now giving me evil ideas. lol I guess we'll wait and see how it turns out. Counter: Medivacs Be sure to warp in Stalkers in order to counter the counter.
What about before medievacs? And what about zerg... zerg is always forgotten.
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On May 29 2013 08:07 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
Stuuuuupid.
Either increase the medivac Afterburners ability cooldown or (better) do something like make Pneumatised Carapace make overlords move at 2.95 speed or something so all races have faster dropships available, then sure, make Warp Prisms faster by default.
Myaahahaarrrr, don't like this.
Oracle buff is worse though, making it easier for worse players to keep them alive when they already have 160 life anyway.
Wait--the race who have creep spread and 0 supply spotters is upset that dropships are fast?
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Sure I think this might be a good change. I'm a Zerg player and I agree that protoss needs something in the midgame to keep the zerg in check. Still, I think some protoss all ins are bullshit and they are pretty much unbeatable in the late game. I wish Blizzard did something about that so that zerg could effectively play defensive and go for much longer games. I don't want it to be overpowered like broodlord infestor, but it should be viable. It is for the other races. Zerg is really strong because tech switches are really strong and can give you a huge advantage, but protoss can scout so easily. If the Zerg doesn't overwhelm protoss using tech switches, it really doesn't look good though. It's rare that zerg wins in these really late game scenarios, but it happens, often in crazy base-trade scenarios.
Ya, it's a good change, but they are other unaddressed problems in the match up.
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On May 29 2013 08:07 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
Stuuuuupid.
Either increase the medivac Afterburners ability cooldown or (better) do something like make Pneumatised Carapace make overlords move at 2.95 speed or something so all races have faster dropships available, then sure, make Warp Prisms faster by default.
Myaahahaarrrr, don't like this.
Oracle buff is worse though, making it easier for worse players to keep them alive when they already have 160 life anyway.
Mutalisks? Buffed to 4+ speed? Plus regen?
Fast Prism + Fast Oracle finally provides that early mid to late game 'oomf' harassment that can be very reliable.
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Make the warp prism field bigger also.
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On May 29 2013 08:09 Adonminus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 08:06 Antylamon wrote:On May 29 2013 08:05 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins. You're now giving me evil ideas. lol I guess we'll wait and see how it turns out. Counter: Medivacs Be sure to warp in Stalkers in order to counter the counter. What about before medievacs? And what about zerg... zerg is always forgotten.
Robo+3 sentries (minimum for the strat) is 400 gas and comes with zero support...
Medivac is 300 gas... (Factory, Starport, Medivac)
I don't see what you're talking about?
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On May 29 2013 08:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Wait--the race who have creep spread and 0 supply spotters is upset that dropships are fast?
On May 29 2013 08:10 Xahhk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 08:07 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
Stuuuuupid.
Either increase the medivac Afterburners ability cooldown or (better) do something like make Pneumatised Carapace make overlords move at 2.95 speed or something so all races have faster dropships available, then sure, make Warp Prisms faster by default.
Myaahahaarrrr, don't like this.
Oracle buff is worse though, making it easier for worse players to keep them alive when they already have 160 life anyway. Mutalisks? Buffed to 4+ speed? Plus regen? Fast Prism + Fast Oracle finally provides that early mid to late game 'oomf' harassment that can be very reliable.
Oh no, that's all great, I know, but I'm just thinking drops compared to drops, or else nydus compared to drops (also transports units). It's a different playstyle, I'm not saying mutalisks aren't reeeally good right now. 
Also I think the frequency at which medivacs can use Ignite Afterburners is a problem, not the actual speed, more for protoss rather than zerg.
I think hellbats being able to be healed by medivacs is much more annoying and questionable though, or at least for zerg.
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I don't really like this buff, and I don't think it'll work out. Speed prism and two immortals gonna be rough to deal with in all matchups.
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On May 29 2013 08:01 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins. 2 hellbats does wipe out a mineral line in 2-3 attacks. The same is not true for a protoss player warping in sentries...
Sure, its just takes like 200 gas to forcefield twice and then 400 minerals to deal with the mineral line in a reasonable period of time. I mean, the cost of Hellbats is way more.....wait...fuck.
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On May 29 2013 07:57 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 07:41 Adonminus wrote:On May 29 2013 07:37 archwaykitten wrote:
I don't like this idea. I love using speed warp prisms, but I like having to upgrade them first because it makes me feel more unique when I have to go out of my way to get them.
Also, the upgrade is already cheap and the infrastructure to get it is already in place in every long game. This buff will do almost nothing to help in long games. Removing research as a prerequisite is really only going to help out with timings in the early game, and that is one area in which Protoss already excels. There are 2 problems which delay as from getting speed warp prisms: 1) We have to fully commit to robo tech by getting robo bay and researching speed. 2) We lose valuable time on robo which could have been colossi since we already got robo bay. This would solve those 2 problems, also note that speed prisms is stronger with the twilight tech lab having high templars, dark templars or chargelots are extremly strong with speed prism, but we usually can't get them until late game since we need the full robo tech path. Also the timings with speed prism, I think it'll be more similar to hellbat drop, you commit to a very fast drop but it doesn't end the game, just damages the enemy enough to get economical advantage. The difference is that a Terran who drops Hellbats can't forcefield your main, and can't reinforce those Hellbats with more warp ins.
Or turn hellbats into a Thor.
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EPT
