In a group where DH: Stockholm Runner-up NaNiwa had been widely favored to win, it was instead Liquid's TLO who took the first place spot with an impressive 4 - 1 map score. After defeating Kas in the first set, TLO avenged his loss against NaNiwa at DreamHack by taking him out in the winners match to advance to the Ro16 in first place.
Despite the loss to TLO, NaNiwa's PvT proved to be more than up to the task of taking him through the group in second place. After defeating Shuttle in his first match, he was fortunate to face him again in the final match of the night where he defeated him once more to secure second place in the group. NaNiwa and TLO advance to play in the live Ro16 rounds, while Kas and Shuttle must play in the online Challenger League to earn a shot at playing in the Premier League next season.
The woes of players from the New World continued as this time Latin America's representatives were dealt a blow by Koreans. MajOr and Killer would have been favored to advance in many other groups, but being grouped with the EG-TL duo of HerO and aLive was too much. HerO was the first to go through, defeating both MajOr and Killer to take the first place spot.
There was a silver lining in the group, as Killer became the first non-Korean to win a series victory over a Korean by defeating aLive in his initial set. Roach-ling all-ins exposed aLive's greedy play, and Killer was able to win a tight 2 - 1 victory. However, he could not repeat that feat in the crucial final set, where aLive scored a 2 - 0 victory to take the second place spot in the group.
On May 04 2013 13:02 Cyro wrote: TLO 2-0 Naniwa? Damn, wish i saw that, for both sides
Matches were less than spectacular... TLO played alright, did some of his swarm host play. If you saw the Dreamhack match 1 between them, then you don't really need to see the series in WCS. Naniwa does say something at the end of the game though ^_^.
On May 04 2013 13:00 Negatiive wrote: so disapointed in WCS na damn koreans
A lot of NA players are falling just short. Minigun was 1 game from beating Apocalypse and advancing, and Illusion was 1 game from beating Alicia and advancing. It's not that they can't take games, it's that they can't take games on a consistent basis, which means the probability of advancing is low.
Wow @TLO making it out. I'm really happy for him, because not only has he been battling RSI(?) but he seems to have really changed how he approaches the game and practice.
actually quite happy for both Naniwa and TLO. they were both surprisingly good at dreamhack, this shows their success wasnt just a fluke. its interesting to see them progress
IdrA, HuK, Scarlett, Suppy and Goswser. Please don't let this be a Code B tournament on the NA server. WCS EU is the tournament im most excited for but still i wanna see some foreigner action in WCS NA too.
On May 04 2013 13:31 RogerChillingworth wrote: more BM from NaniWa. This time it was in all-caps. How.....unexpected.
they need to take a page from Pro League and ban a player if he types anything more than glhf, pp and gg.
Where's the fun in that? Besides, as long as the chat is at the end of the game, its not like its disruptive to the game or anything. Also fyi, typing "pp" once would have gotten you disqualified by KeSPA, since you are only allowed to type "ppp" and "gg".
On May 04 2013 13:31 RogerChillingworth wrote: more BM from NaniWa. This time it was in all-caps. How.....unexpected.
they need to take a page from Pro League and ban a player if he types anything more than glhf, pp and gg.
Where's the fun in that? Besides, as long as the chat is at the end of the game, its not like its disruptive to the game or anything. Also fyi, typing "pp" once would have gotten you disqualified by KeSPA, since you are only allowed to type "ppp" and "gg".
They changed that to an arbritary number of ps after the incident some years ago though.
If anything, this EU-GSL should take after the real GSL, ie allowing players to IMBA IMBA all games.
Even though I already knew the detailed results beforehand, the title of this made me think that they won the whole tournament >_< Oh well, attention grabber :D
On May 04 2013 14:40 Msr wrote: TLO knew naniwa was a far better player, and used a build that he knew Naniwa was weak versus, well played by him.
Your statement contradicts itself sir.
TLO himself said that Naniwa was a much better player then himself currently so he tried to do tricky stuff. Also regarding the BM stuff. From Twitter:
On May 04 2013 13:05 IPA wrote: What did Nani say at the end of his loss?
<3 TLO, proud of you brother.
"ah lol"
You should also keep in mind, that when they interviewed Nani just a few matches after, he was calm and quite polite to TLO as an opponent. He just needs to vent off a little, and I dont think it really mean anything what Nani says 1 seconds after being demolished in SC2.
On May 04 2013 13:05 IPA wrote: What did Nani say at the end of his loss?
<3 TLO, proud of you brother.
"ah lol"
You should also keep in mind, that when they interviewed Nani just a few matches after, he was calm and quite polite to TLO as an opponent. He just needs to vent off a little, and I dont think it really mean anything what Nani says 1 seconds after being demolished in SC2.
I think it's difficult to read a lot into "ah lol" either way, other than no gg. Many people take the lack of gg too seriously.
On May 04 2013 17:40 Sephinor wrote: Meanwhile in WCS America, not a single American makes it to the Ro16... I still don't see how this is supposed to help the scene over there.
On May 04 2013 13:05 IPA wrote: What did Nani say at the end of his loss?
<3 TLO, proud of you brother.
"ah lol"
You should also keep in mind, that when they interviewed Nani just a few matches after, he was calm and quite polite to TLO as an opponent. He just needs to vent off a little, and I dont think it really mean anything what Nani says 1 seconds after being demolished in SC2.
I think it's difficult to read a lot into "ah lol" either way, other than no gg. Many people take the lack of gg too seriously.
On May 04 2013 17:40 Sephinor wrote: Meanwhile in WCS America, not a single American makes it to the Ro16... I still don't see how this is supposed to help the scene over there.
Well shoutcraft is starting soon..
At this point i feel like shoutcraft is the unofficial, true WCS America...
On May 04 2013 17:40 Sephinor wrote: Meanwhile in WCS America, not a single American makes it to the Ro16... I still don't see how this is supposed to help the scene over there.
It should be a bloody wake-up call for NA-based "progamers". Atleast the EU players managed to keep the Korean swarm at bay, NA players need to man up, shape up and take their game to the next echelon.
Can't blame the Koreans for playing well and wanting to succeed in a way they are perfectly entitled to, it's the NA players fault for being bad enough to lose repeatedly to Koreans, a few of whom are probably dealing with pings in the 100-200 region minimum.
On May 04 2013 17:40 Sephinor wrote: Meanwhile in WCS America, not a single American makes it to the Ro16... I still don't see how this is supposed to help the scene over there.
It should be a bloody wake-up call for NA-based "progamers". Atleast the EU players managed to keep the Korean swarm at bay, NA players need to man up, shape up and take their game to the next echelon.
Can't blame the Koreans for playing well and wanting to succeed in a way they are perfectly entitled to, it's the NA players fault for being bad enough to lose repeatedly to Koreans, a few of whom are probably dealing with pings in the 100-200 region minimum.
I'm blaming the format. When I watch WCS America I want to watch the best american players fight each other to find out who the best 5 americans are. The season finals is where each region should battle it out to find out which players from what region that are the best.
I hope they make some changes for the next season.
Untill the few good (by good I mean tallented) NA players keep training on NA server we will NEVER have an NA player doing any good performance again, especially US players. Until a guy like Idra will keep training against top master EU level players and consider his looses caused by his opponents "stupid or unskilled builds" instead of his own weekness he will keep loosing against Coda A EU players or guys like Minigun. We saw that Goswer became a significant good player since he started training on Mill house in France.
The US level is a shame for the biggest SC2 country in the world, mainly caused by the weakness of its ladder and the lack of self critisism of its players. Come train in EU guys and SC2 world will stop laughing at you.
Gha, I love how WCS EU is going, but not a fan of WCS NA, it's just GSL v2 I have the GSL ticket if I want to watch the Koreans play at the absolutely highest level.
Thx for the links guys, just saw G1 of Naniwa vs TLO, and sure about one thing:
Naniwa should've recalled his MSCore IMMEDIATELY when he saw Lings back home and do the Photon overcharge..
And even if he didn't have quite the energy to do the 2 things (Recall and Overcharge), still the Core would've helped a lot against the Lings that were trying to breach his Gate-wall..
After G2 - either Naniwa was trolling and not wanting to win or IDK what happened there.. It seems like he doesn't even know that he can Recall with the MSCore.. If he did - he'd have defended and the game would've been in his favor once he secured back his main Nexus IMO
I actually predicted Killer to advance from his group. When I glanced over the liquibet results and saw Alive and Hero had made it I just though "ah well, not that surprising" but now that I see just how close he was I'm a little heart broken. Don't think I can bring myself to watch the vods of that series.
On May 04 2013 13:14 Enel wrote: IdrA, HuK, Scarlett, Suppy and Goswser. Please don't let this be a Code B tournament on the NA server. WCS EU is the tournament im most excited for but still i wanna see some foreigner action in WCS NA too.
On May 04 2013 13:14 Enel wrote: IdrA, HuK, Scarlett, Suppy and Goswser. Please don't let this be a Code B tournament on the NA server. WCS EU is the tournament im most excited for but still i wanna see some foreigner action in WCS NA too.
Wait... Code B? Care to elaborate?
He's saying that WCS AM is turning into WCS KR for players that couldnt qualify for WCS KR (with the exception of the few Code A players that gave up their spots and soon HyuN and TaeJa it will be all Code B Koreans)
On May 04 2013 13:05 IPA wrote: What did Nani say at the end of his loss?
<3 TLO, proud of you brother.
"ah lol"
You should also keep in mind, that when they interviewed Nani just a few matches after, he was calm and quite polite to TLO as an opponent. He just needs to vent off a little, and I dont think it really mean anything what Nani says 1 seconds after being demolished in SC2.
Well, first of all he wasn't bming TLO for being TLO. If he would say something IdrA does like, Stop being so shitty that u have to play OP units/builds, then it would have been an attack on TLO himself.
Glad Hero and Alive won; they are great players! They should be able to produce higher quality games in the future than the players they defeated. Also glad to see TLO make it through; he is one of the most creative SC2 players ever!
On May 04 2013 22:01 elKaDor wrote: boring when Koreans owning NA up,
Srsly aint it enough with gsl?
Keep na for Na players T_T
Koreans and a Norwegian! :D
Anyway, these two tournaments aren't at the level of the GSL yet, but it might be in 2-3 seasons. It's not like the GSL didn't have it's share of scrubs the first 2-3 seasons. A tournament like this needs time to grow the scene and environment around it.
I'm watching his stream for quite some time now (in my opinion one of the best non-commentary streams) and his approach to and motivation for the game amazes me. He really deserves this =)
On May 05 2013 00:25 paddyz wrote: Why are so many people of the opinion that koreans beating americans in WCS is a bad thing?. Better players in the latter rounds can only be good imo.
Do you want that Barcelona and/or Real Madrid should switch from Primera Divsion to Barclays Premiership (if this is possible)? I dont. I want REGIONAL tournaments, exactly this is what I missed in WoL.
On May 05 2013 00:25 paddyz wrote: Why are so many people of the opinion that koreans beating americans in WCS is a bad thing?. Better players in the latter rounds can only be good imo.
Do you want that Barcelona and/or Real Madrid should switch from Primera Divsion to Barclays Premiership (if this is possible)? I dont. I want REGIONAL tournaments, exactly this is what I missed in WoL.
Are you saying La Liga is leagues above Barclays primier league in terms of level of competition? Wrong analogy bro you shouldve used K league or other significantly inferior football leagues.
On May 05 2013 00:25 paddyz wrote: Why are so many people of the opinion that koreans beating americans in WCS is a bad thing?. Better players in the latter rounds can only be good imo.
Do you want that Barcelona and/or Real Madrid should switch from Primera Divsion to Barclays Premiership (if this is possible)? I dont. I want REGIONAL tournaments, exactly this is what I missed in WoL.
Are you saying La Liga is leagues above Barclays primier league in terms of level of competition? Wrong analogy bro you shouldve used K league or other significantly inferior football leagues.
And I dont like if Manchester United, Chelsea are switching to Primera Division. As I said, I just want regional/national tournaments...
I am annoyed with people hating on Koreans for winning NA qualifiers - the top WCS players will be a combination of best players - not the most racially diverse ones. Nothing else matters.
Wuzzup TLO! He's already landed himself a fair number of points by getting top 16 at Dreamhack and now advancing here. I'm looking forward to seeing him continue to grow!
On May 04 2013 13:00 Negatiive wrote: so disapointed in WCS na damn koreansNA failing
FTFY, dont blame koreans for the north americans not bringing the heat.
grats to the winners, i hope this WCS lives up to the hype that blizz is throwing at it now.
Its not even North Americans, it was Killer and Major this time. (though Major may count as NA) And its also not called WCS NA, but WCS America.
There us no "may". Mexico is as much part of north America as USA.
Exactly... And this guy is from Poland...
On topic... I blame myself 'cause I really expected so much from my MajOr against monsters like Naniwa and TLO, but good job brothers... and in the other side... TLO pwning, fuck yeah...
On May 05 2013 02:24 Ireniicas wrote: America for Americans
Native Americans? It's the natural order of things for the continent, the Koreans have landed, get back on your reservations you savages! Take these blankets... Feels like an issue of mindset, perhaps its just bravado for the streams but there seems to be a sense of entitlement in the way a lot of US pro's talk about it. That's not how you get to be the best at anything... Even the tiny SEA server and the embattled china scene are putting up a better fight the the over monied NA. And lets not forget, with the exception of a couple of IM guys it's western teams shipping in the Korean players.
On May 04 2013 13:00 Negatiive wrote: so disapointed in WCS na damn koreans
A lot of NA players are falling just short. Minigun was 1 game from beating Apocalypse and advancing, and Illusion was 1 game from beating Alicia and advancing. It's not that they can't take games, it's that they can't take games on a consistent basis, which means the probability of advancing is low.
You know, I was just thinking about what you said. Americans are capable of taking games, so that means that the skill set is there. I just wonder what makes a player more consistent. Its that element, that we are missing. Maybe its mental toughness? Who knows, but I hope American teams figure it out and are able to change up their training regimen to overcome this....
everyone complaining about koreans in WCS NA is an idiot, the presence of decent koreans in America gives the american players a chance to compete with them and hopefully reach a higher level, the fact that the koreans are there raised the level of the tournament and means that any american playing in america can now reach a higher level of sc2 without having to travel to korea, if anything this should benefit american players
if it was just americans it would be a bunch of shit players earning a lot of money with little motivation to push themselves to challenge the koreans, this situation can only benefit american players
On May 06 2013 08:15 oucho wrote: everyone complaining about koreans in WCS NA is an idiot, the presence of decent koreans in America gives the american players a chance to compete with them and hopefully reach a higher level, the fact that the koreans are there raised the level of the tournament and means that any american playing in america can now reach a higher level of sc2 without having to travel to korea, if anything this should benefit american players
if it was just americans it would be a bunch of shit players earning a lot of money with little motivation to push themselves to challenge the koreans, this situation can only benefit american players
Yeah, surely NA players will improve a lot after getting beaten into the ground in a handful Bo3s. /sarcasm
On May 06 2013 08:15 oucho wrote: everyone complaining about koreans in WCS NA is an idiot, the presence of decent koreans in America gives the american players a chance to compete with them and hopefully reach a higher level, the fact that the koreans are there raised the level of the tournament and means that any american playing in america can now reach a higher level of sc2 without having to travel to korea, if anything this should benefit american players
if it was just americans it would be a bunch of shit players earning a lot of money with little motivation to push themselves to challenge the koreans, this situation can only benefit american players
Yeah, surely NA players will improve a lot after getting beaten into the ground in a handful Bo3s. /sarcasm
NA players have already got beaten into the ground in ladder by Byun and Polt... I feel the more important thing is the attitude that AM pros will need. Koreans who play on WCS AM will play in the NA server to get used to the lag, and when they travel to the US to play the offline games, they will also likely ladder in that region. So we will be seeing many more Koreans dominating ladder pretty soon (currently it's only Byun and Polt, but imagine when you are the top foreigner in NA and then you play 15 Koreans in a row and lose 15 times in a row...) you have to understand that you should not give up and hope you don't run into another person leagues above you. You analyse the replays, see how they did better than you. You work out things that you need to work on to hold the sick timings and harass the Koreans effectively. You practice these things hundreds of times in private games (if you can convince Byun to hellbat drop you over and over again, the better) and then suddenly you are way better than all the other NA players who just ladder all day every day.
Lol extremely few american "progamers" get paid anything and if they do its a paltry 50 to 300$ a month. Only Idra and Huk take big salaries. Nearly all the money in a typical American team goes to hiring Korean Mercs to act big shotty and getting people to tournaments. If you think these semi progamers are magically going to get really good by playing Koreans in a few series your mistaken. I tried real hard when Playhem was around but the Koreans were getting much better faster than any American could possibly due to environmental disparity.
Theres a huge laundry list of reasons NA is trash in terms of skill but the scene made its bed and its now time to sleep in it.
On May 06 2013 08:15 oucho wrote: everyone complaining about koreans in WCS NA is an idiot, the presence of decent koreans in America gives the american players a chance to compete with them and hopefully reach a higher level, the fact that the koreans are there raised the level of the tournament and means that any american playing in america can now reach a higher level of sc2 without having to travel to korea, if anything this should benefit american players
if it was just americans it would be a bunch of shit players earning a lot of money with little motivation to push themselves to challenge the koreans, this situation can only benefit american players
Honestly, I don't think they will be motivated to improve (like a Korean does) either way. Koreans have been attending foreign tournaments forever, just like this one. It's like those tournaments where Violet and ForGG attended and just dominated the foreigners.
Would they be more competitive if there weren't any Koreans? Doubt it, but at least Americans would be able to see Americans win something, like WCS USA/WCS NA. I found the format last year to be quite nice since it pretty much accommodated everyone. The country-specific tournaments allowed there to be this "national winner" while the Continent-specific and Global tournaments allowed there to be this "true winner".
This situation is the same as its always been! But, I don't actually mind. Koreans play better, which is the only thing that matters to me. I could care less whether they are Korean or from outer space, as long as I get to see good games, ya know?
Gotta say though, EU looks tougher than AM lol funnily though i predict that only AM teams with access to Korean training partners have a chance of making it out. Unless your name is Sen or Moonglade.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/WCS2013/wcsdarkbanner.jpg)
Liquid`TLO and 
Alliance.NaNiwa edge out 
Empire|Kas in Group E 
damn koreans
He finally got the broke through with his new training regimen ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hWt2Wtm.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/a/ab/Pr.png)
Apocalypse, 
Alicia, 
mOOnGLaDe, 
