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On May 02 2013 02:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:53 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:38 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? You make a completely different argument. You completely, 100%, missed the point. I don't think he missed the point at all. His point is that the increased latency (even if it's equal for both players) is unpleasant and therefore an artificial deterrent for cross-region players. It's a valid argument. I disagree with it, but it is a valid argument. He's ultimately arguing about the overall system. This isn't about the overall system. If he wants a nationality based region lock (which he obviously does) it's a different discussion than this. His argument is basically "yeah it's worse for them but they shouldn't be allowed to be here anyway so fuck them" Again, I feel like it's a reasonable position to say that it is ok to passively allow non-NA players to participate, but to draw the line at actively making exceptions that benefit non-NA players (and it doesn't benefit both Major and Hero in this case in the sense that they don't have to deal with unpleasant latency). I see this argument as valid and that's how I interpret Aeroplaneoverthesea's post. I would argue that both game quality trumps these concerns and that it is unrealistic to believe that this is an effective deterrent. Surely if this was allowed then if Koreans signed up to EU and NA eventually they're going to kick out most of the EU/NA players and then they can play the majority of the online portion of the tournament on the Korean server.
If that's the case, then it is what it is, but the issue causing that is with the tournament structure and not with allowing KR vs KR to occur on the KR server. It is unrealistic to believe that this is what will stop Koreans from dominating non-KR WCS.
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On May 02 2013 02:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:57 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 02 2013 02:54 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 02:51 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server.
What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment You willingly signed up for the tournament, the rules say all games will be played on NA server, the other players abided by that rule. Why do you get special treatment? How is it fair that the rules are changed for certain players when others have already had to play out their matches on NA? How many times do I have to quote Nazgul's post until you people understand that there were no such rules at the time of players signing up? The situation might have been different for the EU event, as evidenced by Nerchio's post, but in this case it clearly was handled poorly. There are rules now Y/N? Players matches have already been effected by those rules Y/N? Giving major an exemption because he decided to rage against the rule or Hero an exemption because Wax rallied the Liquid community is a pile of dross. It's mid-season and the rules are what they are, work to have them changed for the next season. So it's ok that there are rules now, even though those rules weren't there from the outset, but it's not ok to change them from now on? Don't you think that's a silly logic to be employing?
No?
The second that the rules effected players games then you damn well stick with them throughout the event, I'm sure Apoc would have loved to have less ping last night in his games but he was forced to play on NA. Are we going to allow him a re-match now?
You may dislike this rule, I dislike the lack of region locking but it's mid-season. We have the tournament we have, work on making the next one better not changing this one.
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On May 02 2013 03:01 TrippSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:53 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:38 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? You make a completely different argument. You completely, 100%, missed the point. I don't think he missed the point at all. His point is that the increased latency (even if it's equal for both players) is unpleasant and therefore an artificial deterrent for cross-region players. It's a valid argument. I disagree with it, but it is a valid argument. He's ultimately arguing about the overall system. This isn't about the overall system. If he wants a nationality based region lock (which he obviously does) it's a different discussion than this. His argument is basically "yeah it's worse for them but they shouldn't be allowed to be here anyway so fuck them" Again, I feel like it's a reasonable position to say that it is ok to passively allow non-NA players to participate, but to draw the line at actively making exceptions that benefit non-NA players (and it doesn't benefit both Major and Hero in this case in the sense that they don't have to deal with unpleasant latency). I see this argument as valid and that's how I interpret Aeroplaneoverthesea's post. I would argue that both game quality trumps these concerns and that it is unrealistic to believe that this is an effective deterrent. Surely if this was allowed then if Koreans signed up to EU and NA eventually they're going to kick out most of the EU/NA players and then they can play the majority of the online portion of the tournament on the Korean server. If that's the case, then it is what it is, but the issue causing that is with the tournament structure and not with allowing KR vs KR to occur on the KR server. It is unrealistic to believe that this is what will stop Koreans from dominating non-KR WCS.
This alone won't stop it of course, but it does provide an opportunity for fans to again voice their displeasure at Koreans playing in WCS AM to begin with and it also adds another reason for Koreans not to want to play in WCS AM.
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On May 02 2013 02:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment So Nestea has to play against another person in KR in sub-optimal conditions(yesterday), but you shouldn't have to because you don't agree with the rule and think it is stupid? I get where you are coming from, but games have already been played by other players with the same issue.
well, always the extra, always the exception, always the drama....
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I think it's kinda amusing that people really believe Koreans are going to move to America rather than play with delay. There's pretty much no reason for a high level Korean to move to America and a whole lot of reasons not to.
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On May 02 2013 02:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
American players need to do both. They need regional tournaments where they can play against each other regularly for decent cash prizes which allow them to live and provide motivation to practice. Then they also need tournaments where they can play vs top Koreans and Europeans.
That is how you build a scene, right now they have the latter and not the former, that's the problem.
That's fair, but WCS NA isn't that tournament right? I think it's the cash equivalent of Code S no? Look at the difference between these games and say sOs' or Flash's games from the ro32. If they're really going to ban Koreans from NA/EU tournaments, suddenly the tournament winnings do a great disservice to the Koreans, some of whom are scrubbing toilets in code B but could maybe WIN WCS NA if given the chance.
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On May 02 2013 02:55 Little-Chimp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:45 knOxStarcraft wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 Little-Chimp wrote:
Wow at that poll. HerO and Major should play worse games because Americans are butthurt about Koreans in their tournament I guess. The negativity and spitefulness really gets me in these threads sometimes. It's not negativity or spitefulness actually. People vote that way because they want something to change, and maybe if it sucks to play in WCS AM from Korea, then Koreans won't play in it in the future, or maybe they'll move to NA, which is also good. The whole point is that people want the AM scene to grow, even at the price of bad games now. Americans should be playing vs. Koreans anyways, not trying to wall off their own little bubble where they can be king of NA. Team houses and proper practice regimes with actual coaches would grow the AM scene, not banning high level competition. Don't ask me how that would get done, because I don't know. Foreign tournaments get a TON of viewers from the Korean invites being there. It's way more awesome trying to see a guy like Idra, Demuslim, Stephano or Naniwa tear up some of the best players in the world as opposed to competing within their own circle over and over. I see no reason why WCS NA gets such flack for having Koreans there aside from having NA in the title.
The higher the chance to win a lot of money, the more NA players will play, and the more they will improve. If Koreans have to actually come to NA to play in WCS NA, less Koreans will come over, but the NA server ladder will still get harder, both giving NA players better practice and a higher chance to win money. This then allows for more diverse competition in international tournaments as well as teams making team houses in NA to compete in WCS NA. Then there will be far more up and coming pros in NA because they actually have a chance to become a pro instead of just going to school and competing in their spare time.
And WCS NA gets flack because its really WCS International, not WCS NA.
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On May 02 2013 03:05 Little-Chimp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:59 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
American players need to do both. They need regional tournaments where they can play against each other regularly for decent cash prizes which allow them to live and provide motivation to practice. Then they also need tournaments where they can play vs top Koreans and Europeans.
That is how you build a scene, right now they have the latter and not the former, that's the problem. That's fair, but WCS NA isn't that tournament right? I think it's the cash equivalent of Code S no? Look at the difference between these games and say sOs' or Flash's games from the ro32. If they're really going to ban Koreans from NA/EU tournaments, suddenly the tournament winnings do a great disservice to the Koreans, some of whom are scrubbing toilets in code B but could maybe WIN WCS NA if given the chance.
I wouldn't really mind if WCS KR paid out more money to compensate, but WCS AM should be Americans and non Americans living in America only.
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It's silly to follow a rule just because it exists. Rules are meant to serve the tournament, and not the other way around. In order to determine whether or not this call made by MLG is ideal, we should look at why the regional split occurred to bring us this problem, and finally, what would be the best for the tournament.
WCS was split into 3 regions not because of regional representation. There is no region lock and there are plenty of Korean players on both AM and EU servers. WCS is split into 3 regions simply because of structural limitations. There is not a way to create global servers that will have low and equal latency for all players. Therefore the best option is to split the tournament into the geographical location of the three servers so that all players are able to select a low latency environment without needing to relocate, or players may choose another region at the cost of latency for qualifier games.
What this means is that playing on a specific server is not a rule, it is a limitation. The difference between the two is that a rule is an honorary contract adopted by each player in order to uphold the integrity and fair play of the tournament. A limitation is restriction placed on the players by the physical world. In this case, the server that WCS AM is played on is a limitation because if a server exists that can have low latency for both KR and AM, we would be using it instead.
In the situation of MajOr vs HerO, they are given the opportunity to not be affected by structural limitations because they both currently reside in Korea. It would follow that WCS should allow them to play on the KR server provided that it still upholds the integrity and fair play of the tournament. The most common argument on this thread regarding this matter is that if KR players chose to play on AM, they should always be subject to the drawbacks of cross-server. However this is not a strong argument due to the fact that players are only temporarily in KR and will be relocating to NA. They may choose to relocate to NA during the qualifiers, and they definitely will move to NA if they were to advance. KR players will not be playing under high latency during the ro16 offline tournament. Because of this, there is no reason to make structural limitations consistent. In essence, forcing players to play on NA is a punishment to both the players and the viewers for reasons outside the skill of the players and the aspects of the game.
My recommendation is to allow players to agree on what server they wish to play on, but default it to NA. This would be best for the players and the viewers, and will not impact the integrity and fair play of the tournament in any way.
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On May 02 2013 03:03 Pik wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:59 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment So Nestea has to play against another person in KR in sub-optimal conditions(yesterday), but you shouldn't have to because you don't agree with the rule and think it is stupid? I get where you are coming from, but games have already been played by other players with the same issue. well, always the extra, always the exception, always the drama....
Yeah, for the people who complain and make drama. Meanwhile, Nestea signed on to NA, won all of his matches, even against a player in Korea, signed off and got a beer. No drama to be seen for miles.
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On May 02 2013 03:02 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 03:01 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:56 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:53 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:38 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? You make a completely different argument. You completely, 100%, missed the point. I don't think he missed the point at all. His point is that the increased latency (even if it's equal for both players) is unpleasant and therefore an artificial deterrent for cross-region players. It's a valid argument. I disagree with it, but it is a valid argument. He's ultimately arguing about the overall system. This isn't about the overall system. If he wants a nationality based region lock (which he obviously does) it's a different discussion than this. His argument is basically "yeah it's worse for them but they shouldn't be allowed to be here anyway so fuck them" Again, I feel like it's a reasonable position to say that it is ok to passively allow non-NA players to participate, but to draw the line at actively making exceptions that benefit non-NA players (and it doesn't benefit both Major and Hero in this case in the sense that they don't have to deal with unpleasant latency). I see this argument as valid and that's how I interpret Aeroplaneoverthesea's post. I would argue that both game quality trumps these concerns and that it is unrealistic to believe that this is an effective deterrent. Surely if this was allowed then if Koreans signed up to EU and NA eventually they're going to kick out most of the EU/NA players and then they can play the majority of the online portion of the tournament on the Korean server. If that's the case, then it is what it is, but the issue causing that is with the tournament structure and not with allowing KR vs KR to occur on the KR server. It is unrealistic to believe that this is what will stop Koreans from dominating non-KR WCS. This alone won't stop it of course, but it does provide an opportunity for fans to again voice their displeasure at Koreans playing in WCS AM to begin with and it also adds another reason for Koreans not to want to play in WCS AM.
Fan outrage doesn't really have a place in this. There are plenty of avenues (including not watching the content) to voice your displeasure. I don't think this works as a symbolic victory for anyone. It doesn't create progress just causes two players to be uncomfortable and lowers game quality.
Considering that most Koreans who were able to chose America with the assumption they would have a latency disadvantage and still did so is evidence against your argument.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Meh, not the biggest issue but I wouldn't have seen the harm in them playing on KR.
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On May 02 2013 03:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 03:03 Pik wrote:On May 02 2013 02:59 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment So Nestea has to play against another person in KR in sub-optimal conditions(yesterday), but you shouldn't have to because you don't agree with the rule and think it is stupid? I get where you are coming from, but games have already been played by other players with the same issue. well, always the extra, always the exception, always the drama.... Yeah, for the people who complain and make drama. Meanwhile, Nestea signed on to NA, won all of his matches, even against a player in Korea, signed off and got a beer. No drama to be seen for miles.
And somehow this justifies a rule that doesn't make any sense? I know you're the perennial apologist for all things Blizzard, WCS, and establishment in general, but don't you at least see that there are two sides to this?
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I think its time MLG retrained its clearly inept team of admins. MLG puts on an amazing shows year on year but after all the dust has settled you hear these horror stories from Pro's about how they were treated by the admins during the tournament... which seems to have culminated in the online part of WCS.
It makes MLG, Sundance and Blizzard look bad and inept... I can't find any logical reasoning for any the fuck ups these admins have caused, both past and present.
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Really it just seems silly. Here are the options.
1. Watch 2 excellent players play a game with tons of lag.
2. Watch 2 excellent players play a game with no lag.
As an audience member I would definitely pick number 2. Letting them play one series on KR effects absolutely nothing other than the quality of the games you'll be watching.
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On May 02 2013 02:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment So Nestea has to play against another person in KR in sub-optimal conditions(yesterday), but you shouldn't have to because you don't agree with the rule and think it is stupid? I get where you are coming from, but games have already been played by other players with the same issue.
I'm pretty sure if you asked both Nestea and Apocalypse if they want to play on KR server when it's KR vs KR from now on, they'd say yes. And assuming latency hurts both players equally (it technically doesn't because they are different races, but let's ignore that) then the winner of the matches should be the same. So, the past really doesn't matter much here. The games were played on NA. I'm sure they would have both preferred playing on KR, but it's done now.
Yeah MLG/WCS looks unprofessional when they change the rules mid-season (you can barely call it "mid-season"...) but they also look bad for sacrificing the quality of the matches in order to have it played on NA. And quite frankly, I find it more unprofessional that they cannot make intelligent decisions on the matter. Clearly both Team Liquid (HerO) and Major want the matches on Korea. I imagine every other Korean in every other WCS would like to play their KR vs KR on the Korean server. Changing it now would only help accommodate the players.
Even if they don't change it now (they very likely won't), at least they will (hopefully) change it for future seasons and whatnot.
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On May 02 2013 03:12 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 03:10 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 03:03 Pik wrote:On May 02 2013 02:59 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server.
What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment So Nestea has to play against another person in KR in sub-optimal conditions(yesterday), but you shouldn't have to because you don't agree with the rule and think it is stupid? I get where you are coming from, but games have already been played by other players with the same issue. well, always the extra, always the exception, always the drama.... Yeah, for the people who complain and make drama. Meanwhile, Nestea signed on to NA, won all of his matches, even against a player in Korea, signed off and got a beer. No drama to be seen for miles. And somehow this justifies a rule that doesn't make any sense? I know you're the perennial apologist for all things Blizzard, WCS, and establishment in general, but don't you at least see that there are two sides to this?
I totally see that there are two sides to the argument and if MLG was willing to let them play on the KR server, I wouldn’t any objection at all. However, if they choose to enforce the NA only rule, I don’t see any problem with that either. I do have a problem with people acting like MLG is committing some sort of crime for doing so and the way this thread was created for the sole purpose to stir up drama.
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This is how it really should be. The fact that WCS NA is being destroyed by Koreans is just stupid. To play in NA you should have to LIVE in NA. I personally do not think the option should be given to play with lag from another region. I would rather see the NA region go to Worlds and get Wrecked with a team full of NA players then Win the Worlds as NA with a team full of Korean players.
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On May 02 2013 03:14 Swords wrote:
Really it just seems silly. Here are the options.
1. Watch 2 excellent players play a game with tons of lag.
2. Watch 2 excellent players play a game with no lag.
As an audience member I would definitely pick number 2. Letting them play one series on KR effects absolutely nothing other than the quality of the games you'll be watching.
There's pretty clearly more to it than that.
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Seems silly to me... However as a big league with alot of matches being played, mlg won't have time to go in to every case like this and take action for every individiual. I guess they can just make rules and use those rules, which they did.
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EPT
