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On May 02 2013 02:51 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment You willingly signed up for the tournament, the rules say all games will be played on NA server, the other players abided by that rule. Why do you get special treatment? How is it fair that the rules are changed for certain players when others have already had to play out their matches on NA?
I already said that in the rules it's said what server you are going to play on. You are allowed to ask if you could change but nobody has to agree.
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On May 02 2013 02:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:45 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:38 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? You make a completely different argument. You completely, 100%, missed the point. I don't think he missed the point at all. His point is that the increased latency (even if it's equal for both players) is unpleasant and therefore an artificial deterrent for cross-region players. It's a valid argument. I disagree with it, but it is a valid argument. He's ultimately arguing about the overall system. This isn't about the overall system. If he wants a nationality based region lock (which he obviously does) it's a different discussion than this. His argument is basically "yeah it's worse for them but they shouldn't be allowed to be here anyway so fuck them" It's all relevant to the overall gaming experience. In your scenario Koreans know that when they play American players who are nowhere near as good they have to play with lag, but that's fine because they're much better players so they'll win anyway. When they do play anyone good (i.e a Korean) they can play lag free. This is a much more desirable situation and makes them far more likely to play in WCS AM. In my situation they always have to play with lag, therefore it's less enjoyable to play WCS AM and they are less likely to play in it, which in the absence of Blizzard outright banning Europeans/Koreans playing from their region (which is what they should do) is at least some form of barrier/obstacle. Simple. How does that make any sense? Lol. If they play another Korean they'll know that the other player will have the same amount of lag as they do so nothing changed whatsoever. WTF does it change except that the game will be worse? If you just wanna get the koreans out of your region, that's fine. Terrible opinion in my book but not my place to judge that. But you're dumping that on the wrong people. Blizzard created the system you dislike, not the players.
It's infinitely preferable to play vs an opponent when you both have 50ms than when you both have 250ms, that's pretty obvious.
I'm not tweeting Koreans players telling them to GTFO of WCS AM. I don't hold it against them at all.
That doesn't mean we as fans don't need to do all we can by putting pressure on MLG and Blizzard to put a region lock in ASAP, this is part of that.
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On May 02 2013 02:51 Swagasaurus wrote:
Just look at how major and TL deal with this, so unprofessional. Maybe you should figure this stuff out beforehand instead of bitching about it last minute on TL thread. I'm sure trying to curse out mlg employees is really helping your case major.
I don't see what TL has done wrong. Read the last few pages
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On May 02 2013 02:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:38 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? You make a completely different argument. You completely, 100%, missed the point. I don't think he missed the point at all. His point is that the increased latency (even if it's equal for both players) is unpleasant and therefore an artificial deterrent for cross-region players. It's a valid argument. I disagree with it, but it is a valid argument. He's ultimately arguing about the overall system. This isn't about the overall system. If he wants a nationality based region lock (which he obviously does) it's a different discussion than this. His argument is basically "yeah it's worse for them but they shouldn't be allowed to be here anyway so fuck them"
Again, I feel like it's a reasonable position to say that it is ok to passively allow non-NA players to participate, but to draw the line at actively making exceptions that benefit non-NA players (and it doesn't benefit both Major and Hero in this case in the sense that they don't have to deal with unpleasant latency). I see this argument as valid and that's how I interpret Aeroplaneoverthesea's post.
I would argue that both game quality trumps these concerns and that it is unrealistic to believe that this is an effective deterrent.
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On May 02 2013 02:51 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:50 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart If Blizzard are unclear on how the fans feel about this situation it's important we the fans express our overwhelming dislike of it. Anything which causes Blizzard to put in a region lock ASAP is a good thing, we cannot be loud enough in expressing how unacceptable this situation is. On May 02 2013 02:42 Little-Chimp wrote:
Wow at that poll. HerO and Major should play worse games because Americans are butthurt about Koreans in their tournament I guess. The negativity and spitefulness really gets me in these threads sometimes. No spite here, I prefer Korean players, every one of my favourite players is a Korean, it's not about me hating Koreans at all. That said, there's no fun in supporting Koreans when they win 99% of the time and despite me preferring Koreans I'm sensible enough to realise that America and Europe need there own league where there's real livable money on the line and they can actually compete with people on their own level. YOUR OPINION. You're being loud for your opinion. I wanted to say that so nobody will ever ever ever ever assume that I'm of an opinion anything even similar to yours.
Then you're a minority, and when it comes to growing esports it's all about the majority, I hope you can understand that because that's a pretty important part of the issue here.
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On May 02 2013 02:51 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment You willingly signed up for the tournament, the rules say all games will be played on NA server, the other players abided by that rule. Why do you get special treatment? How is it fair that the rules are changed for certain players when others have already had to play out their matches on NA?
How many times do I have to quote Nazgul's post until you people understand that there were no such rules at the time of players signing up?
The situation might have been different for the EU event, as evidenced by Nerchio's post, but in this case it clearly was handled poorly.
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On May 02 2013 02:26 Bumblebee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:25 wo1fwood wrote:On May 02 2013 01:35 Bumblebee wrote:On May 02 2013 01:28 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 01:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 01:23 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 01:16 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 01:11 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 01:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:That's the Site staff buddy. Waxangel does write-ups and translations, but he's not part of the Team's actual management or decision-making staff. I guess we can split hairs like that if we really want to. I think MLG can still be grumpy and request that Team Liquid and its staff for both the site and team not make threads like this without sending a single email. That is the level of professional courtesy I would expect. It's not splitting hairs. TeamLiquid.net and Team Liquid the pro team are two separate entities, although they have very evident tie-ins. While someone like Nazgul or Bumblebee represents both, the TL.net staff do not represent the official stance of the actual pro team through their posts. Keep in mind this community was built on volunteers. Again, just because they're an integral part of keeping the community running doesn't necessarily mean they're involved with the team itself. I get that and respect the work they did. But I don't think it is unreasonable to the Team Liquid team to ask the website staff: "Hey, before you create a thread complaining about the rules for a particular event, please let us try to handle it internally first. We have to work with these people and we should let them respond first before bringing it to the community." This thread was created last night and the issue is not super urgent. An email could have been sent or a phone call could have been made this morning to MLG and checked on the rule, rather than go right to a public forum to complain about the issue. On May 02 2013 01:21 Bumblebee wrote:
Adam, you need to understand that first of all editors in chief of a website is not affiliated to our team and have nothing to do with how we operate. I did write to Jason Nye and I just got the response that there was nothing we could do about it. What more do you want? That is pretty much a case of having your cake and eating it too. "The people who work for our website that also has the same name as our team are not affiliated with the team. Also, we advertise for the team on that website and broadcast all MLGs events through that site as well. But they aren't affiliated with the team directly." I wouldn't accept an argument like that from Blizzard, MLG or any other business out there. I don't know why that is not acceptable. The team and the website is two different things, two different companies owned by the same person. We happen to share a brand and yes, you are right, we are here together but as stated in my post just above this one it was brought to our attention, but WaxAngel is completely free to do what he thinks is suitable as the editor in chief and for the community site side. If he wants to report and call people out, then that's his thing. I am not or don't want to be responsible for that. I mean, I can understand some of the inherent confusion on this, but perhaps a staff html page on .net and pro would help solve the confusion (like plainly showing who is affiliated with what)? I actually always wondered why TL didn't have a staff page to know who did what (I know there's one on LP but it seems an odd iteration there). What's wrong with the bottom of this page: http://www.teamliquidpro.com/players? lol, don't I look silly now (I don't go to pro that much). At first glance though it seems in a more odd place as staff aren't technically part of the team, so it's not as readily apparent from the site navigation where and how to look up who staff are (does that make sense?)...but, that being said it's right there in our faces so there's really no reason to not know who specifically is or isn't staff for tlpro.
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On May 02 2013 02:47 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:46 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 Bumblebee wrote:
Friends, we're all in the same boat. We want what is best for all of us. Most of the arguments you're using have nothing to do with the actual game and this rule, but more so that you think there should be a region lock differently than the one being used. This rule does not make much sense since you allowed Koreans in.
If you want a different WCS NA with a different rule on the region lock, that is where your blood, sweat and tears should be spent since it'd actually matter and be useful there. But that is the problem. People don't want an online event for NA. They don't want people practicing on KR and then switching to NA to play in WCS. They want players to invest in this region and player here. And people are tired of special rules and exception that make it easier for players to practice in KR and switch to NA for a couple seasons until it goes off-line only. People don't want to make exceptions any more, which is what the players are asking for. So why don't you voice these complaints in Blizzard's direction, instead of punishing the players that already got screwed over by the shitty handling of this event?
I think people are doing both and there was plenty of complaining about the handling of WCS. I watched SotG last week, which focused on that and only that. And I don't think the players are being "punished" in this case, it is just more annoying for them. And people aren't really in support of an exception to the rule just because playing on the NA server is annoying and a little laggy.
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On May 02 2013 02:45 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:42 Little-Chimp wrote:
Wow at that poll. HerO and Major should play worse games because Americans are butthurt about Koreans in their tournament I guess. The negativity and spitefulness really gets me in these threads sometimes. It's not negativity or spitefulness actually. People vote that way because they want something to change, and maybe if it sucks to play in WCS AM from Korea, then Koreans won't play in it in the future, or maybe they'll move to NA, which is also good. The whole point is that people want the AM scene to grow, even at the price of bad games now.
Americans should be playing vs. Koreans anyways, not trying to wall off their own little bubble where they can be king of NA. Team houses and proper practice regimes with actual coaches would grow the AM scene, not banning high level competition. Don't ask me how that would get done, because I don't know.
Foreign tournaments get a TON of viewers from the Korean invites being there. It's way more awesome trying to see a guy like Idra, Demuslim, Stephano or Naniwa tear up some of the best players in the world as opposed to competing within their own circle over and over. I see no reason why WCS NA gets such flack for having Koreans there aside from having NA in the title.
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On May 02 2013 02:27 TrippSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 01:54 Waxangel wrote:On May 02 2013 01:50 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Yeah sorry Wax I gotta agree with most of the people in this thread. Why should KR players be allowed to play in an NA tournament (presumably to take advantage of easier competition) and then also be allowed to play on the KR server? That would be silly and I really hope they don't change this decision. It's okay, I'm more sorry that you and many people don't actually comprehend the argument It's possible to understand your argument and still disagree with it... or is that too hard to comprehend?
MD already made it clear in his post that he doesn't understand what the argument is.
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On May 01 2013 10:54 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 10:49 Waxangel wrote:"@8th_MajOr
so @MLG is going to make me play my matches on NA server vs liquidhero i wonder who came up with such bullshit we both live in korea atm .." According to MajOr's tweet, he and HerO will have to play their WCS America matches on the NA server, despite the fact that they both reside in Korea. While that's probably technically correct if you're following the rules of the tournament to the letter, it's a remarkably inflexible decision. It degrades the WCS tournament by knowingly allowing the level of competition to be lowered, is a discourtesy to the players who want to be able to fully show the skills they have honed through hundreds of hours of practice, and is a disservice to the fans who are expecting the be shown the highest level of gameplay possible. When you consider that region switching is even built into the HotS client, then it's an even more confusing and perplexing decision. Hopefully both players have protested and have had the decision changed. It's WCS NA. It's for whoever is better at playing on the NA server. Maybe instead of complaining about playing WCS NA on the NA server, they could play WCS KR on the KR server. It's a deterrent, because it adds uncertainty to the game. I fully support even stronger deterrents against cross region play. Simile: It's like joining a Chinese debate team and then complaining that they don't debate in English.
no its like a chinese starting a debate with a fellow chinese but suddenly theyre forced into having the debate in english.
another thing that annoys the crap out of me is that the event starts at 2:00 am CEST :/ uncool.
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On May 02 2013 02:52 DusTerr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment Should you be allowed to pick your own maps (if you both agree)?
infact we are chosing the maps by a veto system so yes
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My only problem with this is the games might be low quality because of lag. I don't really care about the whole "rules are rules" debate or the "WCS America vs. WCS Korea" debate.
I just want to watch good games, and now we'll probably miss out on some.
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On May 02 2013 02:53 TrippSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:41 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:38 TrippSC2 wrote:On May 02 2013 02:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? You make a completely different argument. You completely, 100%, missed the point. I don't think he missed the point at all. His point is that the increased latency (even if it's equal for both players) is unpleasant and therefore an artificial deterrent for cross-region players. It's a valid argument. I disagree with it, but it is a valid argument. He's ultimately arguing about the overall system. This isn't about the overall system. If he wants a nationality based region lock (which he obviously does) it's a different discussion than this. His argument is basically "yeah it's worse for them but they shouldn't be allowed to be here anyway so fuck them" Again, I feel like it's a reasonable position to say that it is ok to passively allow non-NA players to participate, but to draw the line at actively making exceptions that benefit non-NA players (and it doesn't benefit both Major and Hero in this case in the sense that they don't have to deal with unpleasant latency). I see this argument as valid and that's how I interpret Aeroplaneoverthesea's post. I would argue that both game quality trumps these concerns and that it is unrealistic to believe that this is an effective deterrent.
Surely if this was allowed then if Koreans signed up to EU and NA eventually they're going to kick out most of the EU/NA players and then they can play the majority of the online portion of the tournament on the Korean server.
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Austria24422 Posts
On May 02 2013 02:53 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:51 DarkLordOlli wrote:On May 02 2013 02:50 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart If Blizzard are unclear on how the fans feel about this situation it's important we the fans express our overwhelming dislike of it. Anything which causes Blizzard to put in a region lock ASAP is a good thing, we cannot be loud enough in expressing how unacceptable this situation is. On May 02 2013 02:42 Little-Chimp wrote:
Wow at that poll. HerO and Major should play worse games because Americans are butthurt about Koreans in their tournament I guess. The negativity and spitefulness really gets me in these threads sometimes. No spite here, I prefer Korean players, every one of my favourite players is a Korean, it's not about me hating Koreans at all. That said, there's no fun in supporting Koreans when they win 99% of the time and despite me preferring Koreans I'm sensible enough to realise that America and Europe need there own league where there's real livable money on the line and they can actually compete with people on their own level. YOUR OPINION. You're being loud for your opinion. I wanted to say that so nobody will ever ever ever ever assume that I'm of an opinion anything even similar to yours. Then you're a minority, and when it comes to growing esports it's all about the majority, I hope you can understand that because that's a pretty important part of the issue here.
I do understand that. But Blizzard has said that they want the WCS Finals to be the best tournament in the world, sort of like a Masters Tournament in Tennis with the top XYZ players at the end of the year. If you put a nationality lock on the regional WCS tournaments, that will never happen. Not a single NA player (except Scarlett maaayybeeee) deserves to be in a tournament like that.
So what would need to change has absolutely nothing to do with this match. Blizzard's entire goal for WCS would have to change. Punishing the players for that is absolutely not the right way to go.
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Time to see how "agile" Blizzard is. Surely this isn't entirely MLG's decision.
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On May 02 2013 02:54 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:51 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment You willingly signed up for the tournament, the rules say all games will be played on NA server, the other players abided by that rule. Why do you get special treatment? How is it fair that the rules are changed for certain players when others have already had to play out their matches on NA? How many times do I have to quote Nazgul's post until you people understand that there were no such rules at the time of players signing up? The situation might have been different for the EU event, as evidenced by Nerchio's post, but in this case it clearly was handled poorly.
There are rules now Y/N?
Players matches have already been effected by those rules Y/N?
Giving major an exemption because he decided to rage against the rule or Hero an exemption because Wax rallied the Liquid community is a pile of dross. It's mid-season and the rules are what they are, work to have them changed for the next season.
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On May 02 2013 02:55 Little-Chimp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:45 knOxStarcraft wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 Little-Chimp wrote:
Wow at that poll. HerO and Major should play worse games because Americans are butthurt about Koreans in their tournament I guess. The negativity and spitefulness really gets me in these threads sometimes. It's not negativity or spitefulness actually. People vote that way because they want something to change, and maybe if it sucks to play in WCS AM from Korea, then Koreans won't play in it in the future, or maybe they'll move to NA, which is also good. The whole point is that people want the AM scene to grow, even at the price of bad games now. Americans should be playing vs. Koreans anyways, not trying to wall off their own little bubble where they can be king of NA. Team houses and proper practice regimes with actual coaches would grow the AM scene, not banning high level competition. Don't ask me how that would get done, because I don't know. Foreign tournaments get a TON of viewers from the Korean invites being there. It's way more awesome trying to see a guy like Idra, Demuslim, Stephano or Naniwa tear up some of the best players in the world as opposed to competing within their own circle over and over. I see no reason why WCS NA gets such flack for having Koreans there aside from having NA in the title.
American players need to do both. They need regional tournaments where they can play against each other regularly for decent cash prizes which allow them to live and provide motivation to practice. Then they also need tournaments where they can play vs top Koreans and Europeans.
That is how you build a scene, right now they have the latter and not the former, that's the problem.
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On May 02 2013 02:57 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:54 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 02:51 TheButtonmen wrote:On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment You willingly signed up for the tournament, the rules say all games will be played on NA server, the other players abided by that rule. Why do you get special treatment? How is it fair that the rules are changed for certain players when others have already had to play out their matches on NA? How many times do I have to quote Nazgul's post until you people understand that there were no such rules at the time of players signing up? The situation might have been different for the EU event, as evidenced by Nerchio's post, but in this case it clearly was handled poorly. There are rules now Y/N? Players matches have already been effected by those rules Y/N? Giving major an exemption because he decided to rage against the rule or Hero an exemption because Wax rallied the Liquid community is a pile of dross. It's mid-season and the rules are what they are, work to have them changed for the next season.
So it's ok that there are rules now, even though those rules weren't there from the outset, but it's not ok to change them from now on? Don't you think that's a silly logic to be employing?
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On May 02 2013 02:49 MajOr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 02:48 Plansix wrote:On May 02 2013 02:42 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:36 MajOr wrote:On May 02 2013 02:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On May 02 2013 02:18 Bumblebee wrote:
I don't even see why anyone of you would vote for they should be playing on NA server. Ultimately, it's you guys who are suffering. The players would be on equal latency, but the overall game quality is lower than what it would be on the Korean server. It just gives you a worse experience, how are you voting for that as a fan lol Because this is WCS AM and the players playing should be based in AM, therefore they're playing on the AM ladder and contributing to the development of the AM scene. Anything which makes it harder for players outside the AM region to play in this tournament is a good thing in my mind and the mind of most fans because ultimately Hero should not even be allowed to play in this tournament. The short term gain of a slightly better Bo3 is not worth losing the principle that this is a purely AM server tournament that should serve the interests of players who play on the AM server. What about that is hard to understand? blame that to blizzard not to the players, you people seem to miss the point if it is a korean player vs a american player(living in america) than obviously all games should be played on us servers, but if its a korean vs a korean, or in my case american living in korea vs a korean, why in the fuck do we have to play on us server? IT MAKES NO SENSE MAKES ME SO UPSET THAT ALL THE FANS THINK ITS FINE IF WE PLAY ON NA JUST CAUSE BLIZZARD DECIDED TO ALLOW PEOPLE OUTSIDE AMERICA TO PLAY ON WCS AMERICA. FOR FUCK SAKE Any barrier that makes it more awkward/unpleasant for people who aren't contributing to the American scene to play in the American servers WCS is a good thing. so lets punish the players instead of the organization that decided that the tournament wouldnt be region locked. smart Is your game really going to be that terrible if you play on NA? Nestea did it last night without a problem. that is beyond the point if its terrible or not we should be allowed to play in optimal conditions, which we arent at the moment
So Nestea has to play against another person in KR in sub-optimal conditions(yesterday), but you shouldn't have to because you don't agree with the rule and think it is stupid? I get where you are coming from, but games have already been played by other players with the same issue.
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EPT
