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On April 22 2013 02:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:04 Rostam wrote:On April 22 2013 01:59 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:55 Rostam wrote:On April 22 2013 01:53 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:52 Goolpsy wrote:On April 22 2013 01:48 vinsang1000 wrote:
It's absurd anyway, it's supposed to be the World Championship Starcraft . How can you limit the entrance number to 512 people.. The biggest problem with this, was it (the tournament) being completely open, so bad players could take the good players spots. Were some players automatically seeded into the tournament? If so, they chinese Pro players should have had a spot there as well :/ Your right, they should have had everyone with copy of SC2 signed up and had a bracket of 4 million players. Then we would have known who was the best. This is a response to... what? The person who was upset that the bracket was ONLY 512 people. Only 512. We have to jump from 512 to 4 million? There's nothing in between? Because a 512 man bracket double elimination is INSANE. That is so many BO3 to manage.
They're the ones who chose to do that format. Nobody forced them to run one double elimination tournament with all BO3.
Registration was open long before the actual tournament - surely they knew they were going to have far more than 512 players signed up. Yet they chose to go ahead with a format that would exclude a large proportion of the people wanting to play. They chose to exclude people not based on their merit or lack thereof, but based on their time of registration. Surely you can see why people might have issues with that.
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United States33703 Posts
On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:28 Waxangel wrote:any statements from the chinese players/community/teams in response to this would be welcome
@MLGSundance
Chinese players missed que times.
1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event.
Twitch mods chat not us.
Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax
@MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance
checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it. I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players. Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up.
then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in?
(any proof to the counter would also be welcome)
even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in?
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On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:28 Waxangel wrote:any statements from the chinese players/community/teams in response to this would be welcome
@MLGSundance
Chinese players missed que times.
1000+ players tried to get into a 512 person event.
Twitch mods chat not us.
Blizz wants all game on WCS.
@SaintSnorlax
@MLGSundance your word against theirs, regarding the Chinese players. They screencapped your admin saying they're good to go.
@MLGSundance
checked in = in the que.
ambiguous but it doesn't say that the player was in the 512.
We had 1000 players que
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it. I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players. Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up.
Tell that to the players that played in the EU qualifiers. EU had a free, open qualifier, yet no one was left out.
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United States97277 Posts
I dont see why they couldnt have done a registration priority like GSL does.
1) pro players
2) masters league x # of points
3) everyone else until the bracket is full
something like that. GSL has been doing it for a while. It's not like MLG opened up the registration for WCS yesterday
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On April 22 2013 02:16 [OGN]Remmy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:08 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:00 cocls wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:28 Waxangel wrote:
any statements from the chinese players/community/teams in response to this would be welcome
[quote]
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it. I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players. Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The admin of MLG confirmed that they were checked in. They were checked into a que of 1,000 players for a 512 man bracket. Your players weren't the only ones who didn't get to play. So you mean Chinese famous progamers like Jim should be regarded the same as other bronze level amateur ladder players playing game for fun?
It an open qualifier, first come, first served. The community wanted it to be free and this is what happens when there is no barrier to entry. I don't want gold level scrubs getting slots your players should have, but this is the system that is in place. That is why MGL hedged out slots in the brackets to assure professional players on NA teams would be in the bracket. The Chinese players should lobby MLG for one of those in the next qualifier for NA code A.
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On April 22 2013 02:19 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I dont see why they couldnt have done a registration priority like GSL does.
1) pro players
2) masters league x # of points
3) everyone else until the bracket is full
something like that. GSL has been doing it for a while. It's not like MLG opened up the registration for WCS yesterday
I agree. The only issue I can see is that they might have trouble defining "pro player". For GSL all they have to do is point at eSF and KeSPA teams. But I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult, and iG must qualify as a pro team by any definition they could use.
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United States97277 Posts
On April 22 2013 02:21 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:19 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I dont see why they couldnt have done a registration priority like GSL does.
1) pro players
2) masters league x # of points
3) everyone else until the bracket is full
something like that. GSL has been doing it for a while. It's not like MLG opened up the registration for WCS yesterday I agree. The only issue I can see is that they might have trouble defining "pro player". For GSL all they have to do is point at eSF and KeSPA teams. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult, and iG must qualify as a pro team by any definition they could use.
yeah I was just using general terms to just make a series of categories. They'd definitely have to be more specific. I don't think it would be that hard to implement.
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On April 22 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:28 Waxangel wrote:
any statements from the chinese players/community/teams in response to this would be welcome
[quote]
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it. I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players. Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up. then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in? (any proof to the counter would also be welcome) even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in?
Accordingly to Plansix, MLG reserved 64 spots for players of teams that MLG is used to work with.
MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket.
I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18356757
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On April 22 2013 02:22 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:21 Rostam wrote:On April 22 2013 02:19 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I dont see why they couldnt have done a registration priority like GSL does.
1) pro players
2) masters league x # of points
3) everyone else until the bracket is full
something like that. GSL has been doing it for a while. It's not like MLG opened up the registration for WCS yesterday I agree. The only issue I can see is that they might have trouble defining "pro player". For GSL all they have to do is point at eSF and KeSPA teams. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult, and iG must qualify as a pro team by any definition they could use. yeah I was just using general terms to just make a series of categories. They'd definitely have to be more specific. I don't think it would be that hard to implement.
MacSed and Xigua were both former GSL competitors. If that isn't pro, then I dont know what is.
Speaking of MacSed, I want to give him a huge shout out and say good luck to the guy right here and right now. It's almost 1:30 in the morning for him when this tournament resumes.
中国不忘！中国不忘！(China will not perish. China will not perish!)
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On April 22 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:28 Waxangel wrote:
any statements from the chinese players/community/teams in response to this would be welcome
[quote]
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it. I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players. Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up. then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in? (any proof to the counter would also be welcome) even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in?
I don't find it odd. There was 64 slots in the bracket reserved by MLG for established players on NA teams, which including your players on TL and likely a bunch of EG guys. MLG did this because they knew of the flaws in the system and didn't want any professional players screwed by it. They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them
This is what happens when you have an open, free qualifier with no cut off or barrier to entry. Those sorts of systems suck and lead to good players being left out. I was one of the supporters of MLG when they were charging $20 to try out and I felt it was a bad choice to remove it. Unlimited sign up with no risk suck and bad players take the slots that great, professional players should have.
With the amount of hacking and other non-sense, the community needs to accept that the leagues need to limit the number of players who try out to the people who care most. An entry fee is a good way to do that.
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United States97277 Posts
I also see 21 walkovers reported in the first round of the MLG bracket. Where they not using the queue to fill in the walkovers? or were they just giving all of those people the benefit of the doubt that they would show up for their losers' bracket match?
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On April 22 2013 02:25 Enders116 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:22 Shellshock1122 wrote:On April 22 2013 02:21 Rostam wrote:On April 22 2013 02:19 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I dont see why they couldnt have done a registration priority like GSL does.
1) pro players
2) masters league x # of points
3) everyone else until the bracket is full
something like that. GSL has been doing it for a while. It's not like MLG opened up the registration for WCS yesterday I agree. The only issue I can see is that they might have trouble defining "pro player". For GSL all they have to do is point at eSF and KeSPA teams. I'm sure it wouldn't be that difficult, and iG must qualify as a pro team by any definition they could use. yeah I was just using general terms to just make a series of categories. They'd definitely have to be more specific. I don't think it would be that hard to implement. MacSed and Xigua were both former GSL competitors. If that isn't pro, then I dont know what is. Speaking of MacSed, I want to give him a huge shout out and say good luck to the guy right here and right now. It's almost 1:30 in the morning for him when this tournament resumes. 中国不忘！中国不忘！(China will not perish. China will not perish!)
冰哥,冷靜...
User was warned for this post
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On April 22 2013 02:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:
[quote]
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it.
I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players.
Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up. then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in? (any proof to the counter would also be welcome) even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in? I don't find it odd. There was 64 slots in the bracket reserved by MLG for established players on NA teams, which including your players on TL and likely a bunch of EG guys. MLG did this because they knew of the flaws in the system and didn't want any professional players screwed by it. They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them This is what happens when you have an open, free qualifier with no cut off or barrier to entry. Those sorts of systems suck and lead to good players being left out. I was one of the supporters of MLG when they were charging $20 to try out and I felt it was a bad choice to remove it. Unlimited sign up with no risk suck and bad players take the slots that great, professional players should have. With the amount of hacking and other non-sense, the community needs to accept that the leagues need to limit the number of players who try out to the people who care most. An entry fee is a good way to do that.
you are in SC business and you never heard of WCS China champion? and Jim who almost all killed EG?
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On April 22 2013 02:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:
[quote]
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it.
I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players.
Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up. then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in? (any proof to the counter would also be welcome) even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in? I don't find it odd. There was 64 slots in the bracket reserved by MLG for established players on NA teams, which including your players on TL and likely a bunch of EG guys. MLG did this because they knew of the flaws in the system and didn't want any professional players screwed by it. They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them This is what happens when you have an open, free qualifier with no cut off or barrier to entry. Those sorts of systems suck and lead to good players being left out. I was one of the supporters of MLG when they were charging $20 to try out and I felt it was a bad choice to remove it. Unlimited sign up with no risk suck and bad players take the slots that great, professional players should have. With the amount of hacking and other non-sense, the community needs to accept that the leagues need to limit the number of players who try out to the people who care most. An entry fee is a good way to do that.
Then they should name it something else than open qualifier, also it went fine with EU qualifiers, everyone who wanted to attend got in.
On April 22 2013 02:27 Shellshock1122 wrote:
I also see 21 walkovers reported in the first round of the MLG bracket. Where they not using the queue to fill in the walkovers? or were they just giving all of those people the benefit of the doubt that they would show up for their losers' bracket match?
Wait, why didn't they fill the WO slots with people who wanted to attend o_O. The people from China actually could had filled the slots for the people who did not show up.
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I don't know if Plansix have a clue what he is talking about... Regarding the Qualifier just compare it to EU Qualifier. It was also free for everyone and they handled RO2048 and all profesional players had no problem to get in.
The next thing is, how can they reserve 64 !!!! Spots for teams like EG??? Under these 64 reserverd Spots i bet there were also just bad players since EG+TL dont have 64 Players in their Roster. So you clearly reserve Spots for Players that are likely far worse than Jim etc.. The whole Organisation is just a mess...
Edit: You say they might have overlooked them because you don't even know them.. That's such a troll statement. It just tells me that you arn't familiar with the sc2 scene. And if MLG overlooked them it wouldn't be profesional at all..
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On April 22 2013 02:23 SnoLys wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:
[quote]
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it.
I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players.
Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up. then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in? (any proof to the counter would also be welcome) even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in? Accordingly to Plansix, MLG reserved 64 spots for players of teams that MLG is used to work with. Show nested quote +
MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket.
I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18356757
You can find the rule on this page of the MLG site:
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/wcs-america-season-1
Check-in will take place on Saturday, April 20 from 10am – 12:50pm ET.
MLG will reserve 64 spots in the bracket for invited players.
64 slots for invited players A/K/A professional players who did not get invited to the premiere division. This was put in place because MLG knew that open qualifiers were going to be a mess and they needed to assure that no professional players were going to be left out. The Chinese players got overlooked, which sucks, but happens.
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On April 22 2013 02:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:
[quote]
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it.
I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players.
Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up. then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in? (any proof to the counter would also be welcome) even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in? They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them
So your personal ignorance of the Chinese SC2 scene is a good enough excuse for there not to be reservations for Chinese pros?
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On April 22 2013 02:31 skyflyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:27 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up. then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in? (any proof to the counter would also be welcome) even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in? I don't find it odd. There was 64 slots in the bracket reserved by MLG for established players on NA teams, which including your players on TL and likely a bunch of EG guys. MLG did this because they knew of the flaws in the system and didn't want any professional players screwed by it. They may have overlooked the Chinese players, which is not surprising since this is the first I have heard of them This is what happens when you have an open, free qualifier with no cut off or barrier to entry. Those sorts of systems suck and lead to good players being left out. I was one of the supporters of MLG when they were charging $20 to try out and I felt it was a bad choice to remove it. Unlimited sign up with no risk suck and bad players take the slots that great, professional players should have. With the amount of hacking and other non-sense, the community needs to accept that the leagues need to limit the number of players who try out to the people who care most. An entry fee is a good way to do that. you are in SC business and you never heard of WCS China champion? and Jim who almost all killed EG?
I can only remember so many things and remembering every single winner of every single event in SC2 is not possible. I did know of Jim because Mr. Bitter hyped him up quite a bit.
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On April 22 2013 02:16 [OGN]Remmy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:08 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:00 cocls wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:38 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:28 Waxangel wrote:
any statements from the chinese players/community/teams in response to this would be welcome
[quote]
I am not a Chinese player, I am not even Chinese, I am not even remotely asian, but I am a caster that studies Chinese as his university major, and if a western event is featuring a key Chinese-Speaking player or a player well-renowned by Chinese players, I take the opportunity that I can to cast it. I want to say that I feel Blizzard should be held most accountable for this, moreso than MLG. The WCS is ultimately governed by Blizzard, and the opportunity to see the prestigious players of one's country compete in WCS, the symbols of national pride, the people who represent a country, was almost all but thoroughly taken from the hands of the Chinese players. Heart of the Swarm hasn't even been released in China yet, thanks to Blizzard, and WoL wasn't released until 9 months after it came out in the U.S.A. Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The admin of MLG confirmed that they were checked in. They were checked into a que of 1,000 players for a 512 man bracket. Your players weren't the only ones who didn't get to play. So you mean Chinese famous progamers like Jim should be regarded the same as other bronze level amateur ladder players playing game for fun?
your "Chinese famous progamers" might not be held in the same regards as the NA/KR progamers, thus being categorized the same as any random first come first serve signee. Personally I wouldnt scan the signup list to reserve a spot for this random Jim dude. Who the hell is he? (sorry I only watch GSL/SPL/DH/MLG/IEM/NASL/IPL)
MacSed and Xigua were both former GSL competitors. If that isn't pro, then I dont know what is.
thats like 2010 or something lol
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On April 22 2013 02:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 02:23 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 02:17 Waxangel wrote:On April 22 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 02:03 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:54 SnoLys wrote:On April 22 2013 01:49 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 01:46 Enders116 wrote:On April 22 2013 01:42 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Why is it Blizzard's or MLG's fault if the players show up late because they misread the time? I'm saying it's Blizzards fault for overall failure to support the Chinese scene. Not MLG's. Besides that, there were inconsistencies from region to region with how the format worked. Its not Blizzard's fault the China has rules and regulations that are difficult to deal with. Google and other companies have the same problem for anything that works online. Each region had its own rules, which could be read by anyone and the check in time was the same for everyone in NA. Everyone else seemed to be able to get here on time, including Korean players. Not all since MLG Adam had to warn that Zenio was not checked in, yet he still made the bracket. Adam Apicella @MrAdamAp 20 Apr
@Hot_Bid @Kennigit zenio not checked in https://twitter.com/MrAdamAp/status/325646678428381186Notice that this was at 22:26, so much later than the conversation between admins and the Chinese players. MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket. I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net. The discussion on B.net says that they are checked in, so they were checked in previous to that. And MLG saving spots for certain players is not helping MLG case. So players that were top in WCS China, just because they don't usually attend MLG are out of a Blizzard event, because it's MLG organizing the qualifiers? How does that make any sense? You do know that 1,000 people tried to play in this 512 man bracket, right? There are over 488 people didn't get to play yesterday because they didn't get into the cue early enough. This is what happens if you have a free, open qualifier, is that people get left out. Its to bad and slightly unfair, but it was first come first served for those who signed up. then you don't find it a little odd that none of the famous NA/KR team players had trouble getting in? (any proof to the counter would also be welcome) even if by some circumstance that all the NA/KR pros mashed buttons in time and SEA/CN players didn't, wouldn't you say it's a problem to use first come first serve when you are the only tournament players on one side of the globe can play in? Accordingly to Plansix, MLG reserved 64 spots for players of teams that MLG is used to work with.
MLG reserved 64 slots for players on teams that they had dealt with in the past. I am sure a Team Liquid player was one of them and was already put into the bracket.
I don't know when they checked in using the MLG website, only when this discussion took place on B.net.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18356757 You can find the rule on this page of the MLG site: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/wcs-america-season-1Check-in will take place on Saturday, April 20 from 10am – 12:50pm ET. MLG will reserve 64 spots in the bracket for invited players.64 slots for invited players A/K/A professional players who did not get invited to the premiere division. This was put in place because MLG knew that open qualifiers were going to be a mess and they needed to assure that no professional players were going to be left out. The Chinese players got overlooked, which sucks, but happens.
These Chinese players left out are professional players...
They are, in fact, very well known.
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EPT
