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No wonder EG are maybe opening another clan house in america lol Full sc2 team in USA
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Lol imagine if professional sports teams were able to play against college teams. Pro coaches, scouts, the best training and equipment vs players who aren't equipped with the means to have the best training. The lesser team would get slaughtered every time and would not get better as a result. No one is saying NA or EU should just get free money without having to play the best players but at this time they have no reason to even try to make a scene. A good example is CLG dropping their support for sc2.
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ok, so what happened to the relatively simple idea of playing in the region your passport says you're from-.-
Stop stealing GSL from us Blizzard-.-
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Do we have any clear answers to if they will move to their region or just play online until the Ro8 offline weekend event? Anyway this sucks imo, i dont like that Koreans are taking over everywhere lol... theres no room left for new players to grow anymore.
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On April 10 2013 20:28 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:27 Dvriel wrote:On April 10 2013 20:24 AgentW wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm appalled. I was expecting Code B players with money to switch, but the caliber of the players making the move is crippling for the NA scene. Imagine if you're a GM player who was looking to grab one of the 8 qualifier slots and looking to make a name for yourself? You have to seriously consider not even playing now. If you wanted the best games, I hope you're happy, we have GSL gutted, NA totally dominated by Koreans, and Europe who has to deal with freaking Mvp and friends. If you can look at me with a straight face and tell me this is working as intended, I simply won't believe you. Why dont you try to practice 12 a day and win some MLG or DH? I bet after this you wil make a NAME and you wont give a **** about who is your enemy and if he is from China or NY... Because I'm in Plat and have a job?
Nice.Me too.Platinum and got job,so no hope for me going to GSL,but I like to watch SC2.The same way I enjoy the Champions League and dont care about the japanese or USA soccer league,but I dont WANT or EXPECT any Japanese or African team to be better than Barcelona or Chelsea.Its no sense.We cant hail mediocrity.Only the best and the ones to work hard deserve to be in the spotlight,so there is no problem for me to see MMA vs MVP in the EU finals.It will always be better than Idra vs Kas....
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On April 10 2013 20:26 immanentblue wrote:
Not only are they clearly implying that they want to invest longterm, the way theyve chosen to do this seems to come more and more to fruition as time goes. As i see it, theese first two or three seasons of wcs are not gonna be the best, but as with GSL its gonna grow slowly in each region, as the players solidify their status. Also, i think its without doubt that its also eventually gonna be all off line, like gsl, so that the koreans actually have to make a significant investment by living near the studio of which their regions wcs games are played, in the same way gsl has worked for foreigners... Soo all the best talent is still gonna be coming from korea, but its not gonna flood the other regions, but rather trickle out, making the other regions hard enough that you as a foreigner really have to up your play... I think, given a few years its gonna be such a strong and cool competition!
This. You just spoke my mind.
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On April 10 2013 20:32 Kergy wrote:
so who benefits from this? Probably just airlines.
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Well, we knew there would be something like this but now that this list was released it's still somewhat surprising to see so many big names actually making the switch. I'm not really sure if this tournament structure can actually achieve the self-proclaimed goal of making it easier to understand the different story lines.
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On April 10 2013 20:31 CajunMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:06 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 19:58 CajunMan wrote:On April 10 2013 19:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 19:35 Type|NarutO wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2013 19:27 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 19:18 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 19:10 budar wrote:On April 10 2013 18:52 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 18:47 Musicus wrote:On April 10 2013 18:41 sc2superfan101 wrote:On April 10 2013 18:37 playa wrote:On April 10 2013 18:34 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Can someone please explain how this ruins anything?
Keep in mind that a GSL style NA/EU tournament with similar prize money didn't exist before this. Keep in mind that every country had a WCS last season and Koreans were only playing in the Korean WCS. Thus, non Koreans could actually win something... So now they actually have to play better players to win something... Oh no! I'm sorry but I'm having a real hard time sympathizing with all this entitlement coming out of the foreign scene right now. They all have been code S players at some point in the past year most making deep runs. To tell me that list isn't among the best Koreans out there is just a flat lie. There will always be international tournaments with tons of top koreans stomping foreigners, but many wanted WCS to be the starcraft olympics. National champions being sent to the world final etc. Would you not enjoy that? Some regional competission leading up to a world final on top of all the international stuff? Not really. I'd probably watch the finals just for the Koreans though. I am one of those rarities that likes Korean players more for both personality and skill level. (emphasis mine) -> That's the whole point. I also don't really care where someone is from if they can play great games, but there are a lot of people who chose their favorite players based on other criteria, and that's actually perfectly fine and happens in all sports. Especially if you're cheering for your hometown/homecountry representative, it's really completely understandable and desirable. And the point that you are missing is that this is killing that. So you might get some great games in the first season (in the offline event, doubt the online part will be too hot after a few weeks of initial interest), but how long will that continue if viewership and general interest in the game declines. Just look at the LoL and DotA2 scenes... The situation in terms of skill is actually really similar to SC2. North american teams are behind EU teams who are behind Asian teams, with a handful of Stephano-like exceptions. But these scenes are completely separated except for THE big tournament where all roads lead to. The NA LCS is getting great numbers even though those teams are actually pretty weak right now. But hey, people care about them, they know these players from their stream etc. Anyway, it remains to be seen how this will turn out. I might actually watch the NA one now whereas without the Koreans I probably wouldn't have. But that's me and you and people like that. What about the "average Joe" browsing twitch and eating Hot Pockets? I still don't get how this kills the scene though... The only change is no more WCS and more money being funneled into the scene. You could argue that it doesn't advance the NA/EU scene as much as it could have, but then I would again disagree. In the region locked scenario, NA/EU would just stagnate and remain eternally inferior. Foreigners would have no incentive to reach the level to where they could beat Koreans. Was the old WCS really all that successful? I never bothered watching any of it so I don't know. Because WCS was an attempt to grow other region scene outside of korea, and this pretty much does the oppossite. Korean players won't be moving, but just playing online while mantaining their practice on their team houses and friends on korea. I don't think people would see so much troublewith koreans moving, if they were really moving. Specially if the different regions started to have some kind of hubs centralized for the teams to grow around. What grows the scene is INVESTMENT and DETERMINATION. All people who read CatZ post on reddit and think its clever really need to put some more thought into it. Korea didn't start with an eSports scene. They did build it with a huge playerbase. Teams / amateurs put up houses to practice in and pay fees to play there. Its not like they magically appeared and it was SKTelecomT1, CJ Entus, T8, STX SouL appearing from nowhere. In Europe and NA sponsors do more or less see 'us' / teams as product placement in eSports, but do they really care and support the scene because the scene is important? Don't know about that. In Korea its good image / good investment for a sponsor to invest into a starleague, into a team, because its not just product placement but overall public relation. I mentioned that a powerhouse like EG with potentially the money should host a house for 16 players, let them pay a certain amount so you can cover the costs at least by 70-90% so they have a house to practice in and food. Give them a schedule and potentially some experiecend coach, doesn't need to be a professional Korean one. The scene will grow based on something like this. Money ofcourse bringts interest, but if you really think it would improve the scene that you can easily get money in NA/EU you are wrong. Progamers wouldn't practice harder, just because they can get money more easily now. If they want to win money right now, they at least need to compete with Koreans - while if you make it region locked - banned Koreans - you can just stick at your level and yes, you can win money - you can sustain yourself, but is that motivation to increase skill and put more into it? Is it reason for more determination? I don't think so. Cheap pros look for easy money, while others look for skill. I understand all progamers and their arguments about money and that determination alone isn't enough to cover costs and put food on the table, but there's more to "give us money, we play" than some people make it sound. Good think its not nation-locked, Koreans should be there and play, the level will increase regardless of them playing only against each other or ladder , but at least we will see foreigners training and trying to get and steal games from Koreans. If we end up with 2 foreigners that are worthy in WCS global finals I am very happy. If we see an all Korean Final, also good. Don't know whats wrong with people nowadays, NA / EU people act like they put more on the line being a progamer than someone from Korea does, when the truth is that they put everything on the line and practice hard. Lots of them don't finish school (?) dont start job training etc. How many people / progamers do you think failed on their way to being successful? Now think about how much sallary EU/NA players get compared to an amateur Korean who PAYS to play in a good training environment.. Also towards the statement of CLGs manager @ CatZ skype: How ridiculous is that. If I were to sponsor a team and would see so much lack of determination and sense for competition I'd immediately quit them. Hilarious - how did they want to GROW TALENT to begin with when they only jump in and expect victories? Talents don't win from the start - you need to put time and money into it and it EVENTUALLY pays off, nothing guaranteed. Now a handfull of Koreans comes over that are good but they are human and you can potentially beat them and they just quit? Well right there you got the reason why Korea is superior to EU/US. Its right there, just look at it. So much this. I cannot for the life of me understand why these altruists who were gonna just pour money into the scene would run away because 10 Koreans moved into the scene. Obviously they weren't all that dedicated to the idea. I like how you say it like its 10 random B teamers that have never won anything. These are 10 of the BEST code S players or team aces one has won 3 gsls so ya excuse me if I'm a bit upset that the Korean SCSI won't actually have the BEST Koreans in it. Instead they come here and kill our scene that is getting off the ground finally an opportunity to raise better players finally a chance for those who play 10 hours a day to get noticed and get to make a living then be raised to compete on the highest level. Only 3 of them are Code S... The BEST Koreans, excepting one or two, aren't going anywhere as of yet. I agree that it sucks for foreigners who were expecting an easier way. But the easy way is not the way to balance the scenes. If this shit ain't brutal then there will be no way that foreigners can ever compete. Trust me guys, I'm a little worried too. I was absolutely expecting one of my favorite players in the world to be able to qualify easy, and now he might not. But if he doesn't than that is his fault. Not Blizzards, not Koreans. His. I understand that NA/EU need more infrastructure. But you know what, judging by this thread. It isn't just infrastructure. It's attitude. LOL and it is his fault he doesn't have a training house where he can play as much as he needs everyday with food and living taken care of. So sorry he probably has to work part to full time then on top of that most likely has to go to school because he is given no opportunity. The best player in na will stay the way they are not because of lack of determination or will but the fact that they have more responsibility and less time in the day. How many people you think would give it all up for 3 meals a day and a computer? I know a Damn lot of them but that is not even an option its a spit in the face to call these players out like they are sitting with the same exact settings and life of these Koreans and expect the same results. And by letting these top players come over instead of opening up options you are hamstringing them before anything even happens.
Actually this guy doesn't work or go to school 
Do Koreans have less responsibilities? Do their days last more than 24 hours? They have infrastructure, yes, and that is a big part of it. It also seems they have, in general, a more solid attitude about the game and the sacrifices it requires. I'm not calling the players out, I'm just calling it how I see it. If they want to succeed, than they have to work extremely hard. And even then success is not guaranteed. I don't see how actually guaranteeing success by banning all of the remotely good players from the scene is in any way going to keep them from treating it like a part-time thing though.
They're options are more limited now, and the competition is fiercer. IMO, this is exactly how it should be. Life is tough, and if you aren't gonna be more tough than maybe professional athletics isn't for you. Sad fact, but there it is.
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Hmmm, I suspect a very very Korean-Heavy Blizzcon 
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i guess we have to wait and see
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All of my thoughts on this, in one reddit comment thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1zik/wcs_needs_to_be_region_locked_to_give_our_guys_a/c9c8jmq
Don't expect anyone to actually read it, so tl;dr: I think it's important to have a story driven tournament over just another "best of the best" tournament, which we already have Code S for. WCS 2k12 provided both, and was very exciting. It did this through region lock. Consistent WCS-2k12-style tournaments could help grow the foreign scenes, which could lead to a smaller skill gap, making a better/more exciting scene overall.
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Probably easier for some foreigners to qualify in korea at the moment! 
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On April 10 2013 20:38 Tuczniak wrote:Probably just airlines.
Ok i laughed Thank you for making my day even better :D
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On April 10 2013 20:36 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:31 Dr.Sin wrote:
What's going to happen to EGTL and Proleague? yea what's gonna happen? they are finally doing better now
Why would this be a problem? I'm pretty sure I read that Blizzard has explicitely forbidden tournaments from conflicting with official WCS events, and the offline portions (at least NA) are done as a few weekend events (2 IIRC). Maybe they miss a day due to travel or jet-lag, and maybe a bit of training, but overall I don't see why it would be a major problem.
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On April 10 2013 20:38 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:28 AgentW wrote:On April 10 2013 20:27 Dvriel wrote:On April 10 2013 20:24 AgentW wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm appalled. I was expecting Code B players with money to switch, but the caliber of the players making the move is crippling for the NA scene. Imagine if you're a GM player who was looking to grab one of the 8 qualifier slots and looking to make a name for yourself? You have to seriously consider not even playing now. If you wanted the best games, I hope you're happy, we have GSL gutted, NA totally dominated by Koreans, and Europe who has to deal with freaking Mvp and friends. If you can look at me with a straight face and tell me this is working as intended, I simply won't believe you. Why dont you try to practice 12 a day and win some MLG or DH? I bet after this you wil make a NAME and you wont give a **** about who is your enemy and if he is from China or NY... Because I'm in Plat and have a job? Nice.Me too.Platinum and got job,so no hope for me going to GSL,but I like to watch SC2.The same way I enjoy the Champions League and dont care about the japanese or USA soccer league,but I dont WANT or EXPECT any Japanese or African team to be better than Barcelona or Chelsea.Its no sense.We cant hail mediocrity.Only the best and the ones to work hard deserve to be in the spotlight,so there is no problem for me to see MMA vs MVP in the EU finals.It will always be better than Idra vs Kas....
But if this was intended to be an Olympic style competition, which apparently now it wasn't, you can't have it like this. It has to be like WCG or last year's WCS. What people fail to understand, IMO, is that although the Koreans are clearly the best, NA and EU are where the money is. If you want to attract sponsors and continue the viability of SC2, you have to rope in sponsors, and white guys winning something is a huge thing to take to your sponsors.
I have to go to work right now. If you want to continue this discussion, please PM me.
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I think something strange will happen in that the players that go to the NA will have their skill level drop dramatically because the overall competition is not so great here. Polt has thus far not been affected but I fear that this mass exodus will be the end for a lot of the Koreans switching on a global stage.
Personally I feel that Blizzard bungled this, I want to see NA players play, not Koreans.
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On April 10 2013 20:34 Dodgin wrote:The Korean scene, because now you can ship Korean players off to EU and NA which opens up new spots in GSL/WCS KR. There weren't enough spots in Code A/S for all the pro-gamers in KR once Kespa joined the scene and now there potentially will be.
I'm really not sure whether the Korean scene actually benefits from this long-term. Ah, I don't know, my brain is a mess today anyway. -.-
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On April 10 2013 20:40 lookfirewood wrote:Probably easier for some foreigners to qualify in korea at the moment!
It's definitely the easiest time ever to qualify for Code A but that doesn't really mean much, as all the money is in Code S.
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On April 10 2013 20:31 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 20:26 m0ck wrote:On April 10 2013 20:16 StarVe wrote:On April 10 2013 20:09 m0ck wrote:On April 10 2013 20:06 Nerchio wrote:
You all focus on WCS only but the "transfer" of all those koreans means that they will all participate in the local tournaments too, like MLG/Dreamhack/IEMs etc Only if they actually move to live in EU/US. At the moment there's nothing much to indicate that. They don't play GSL in Korea anymore. There's nothing to play for in Korea apart from GSTL which takes up some time but not everything. Korean events have seen a huge reduction in numbers with the new WCS format, so Koreans have a lot of free time in their schedules to go to every foreign event their teams can send them to, especially since they can earn WCS points along the way. Koreans need to go to foreign events to get exposure and money now. The new WCS system has changed the structure of EVERYTHING, not only the structure of the WCS leagues themselves. All the scenes will change drastically. MLG is already filled to the brim with Korean players. How many of the players moving to EU/US actually play in the GSL at the moment? Most tournaments have always been open to Korean players, but almost exclusively Korean players on foreign teams have attended. It's more a question of whether the Korean teams have money for/interest in seeing their players abroad. I don't see that changing drastically. Nerchio must be concerned about the European tournaments. The tendency for more Koreans participating there was already happening, regardless of WCS (see their upcoming tournament). I don't see WCS making all that much of a change in Korean participation in European tournaments, to be honest. Just look at DH Stockholm. Korean lineup is vastly different to any DH last year. DH Open Stockholm 2012: 5 Koreans DH Open Stockholm 2013: 16 Koreans Biggest number of serious Koreans (I'm excluding Dragon here) last year was 7 players. Numbers will only grow as time goes on.
But how is that related to WCS? The player-list for DH was finalized before Korean players made their choice about which region to play in.
I was talking about that here, but failed to mention DH for whatever reason:
"Nerchio must be concerned about the European tournaments. The tendency for more Koreans participating there was already happening, regardless of WCS (see DHs their upcoming tournament.)"
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EPT
