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On April 04 2013 12:45 MCXD wrote:I posted my thoughts on this, indirectly, in the GSL thread: Show nested quote +I really hope the ESF players in particular give it their all. A lot of them feel like they're getting shortchanged and might try to drop out of the GSL by simply not caring/preparing and/or focusing entirely on the GSTL, so as to switch regions from KR to something else as soon as they can.
This would completely ruin the GSL...
I would not be surprised if by the end of 2013 GSL/OSL is almost entirely KeSPA players and most of the ESF players have decided to, if not already have, switched to NA/EU regions because of WCS and do not compete in the GSL anymore. While this isn't as much of a problem once it all happens and everything settles down. it is a problem when we still have pro-gamers who are unhappy with what they're stuck with and everything is admist a transition period. We've got many months to wait yet before things get fair and normal, I feel. It is very likely that the GSL as we know it will die and we will see a significant portion of the ESF players not play in it anymore. The most frustrating part of that, however, is right now, when the players who want to make a switch can't because they are stuck in Code A/S. Once everyone is settled and happy in the regions they want to be in things will get good again - but that may not be for another 9 months. I feel like there's pretty much no point to watching the GSL at all in the next few months. Honestly if this was a separate thing then it would be no problem. We could just say "if you don't like it, don't play in it" - except because the GSL/OSL are directly involved now... they have/could effectively ruin(ed) the two biggest, most important leagues in SC2. This isn't something you can just ignore. It's a big problem.
"It is very likely" is just you talking out of your ass. We have no idea what's going to happen and we just have to wait and see. No point to watching GSL? That's overdramatic. If Korean players want to play in the most prestigious tournament, they will keep trying to compete in GSL/OSL, and I'd bet a lot of them will do just that. If nothing else, I can come up with equally convincing speculation that they will stay as you can that they will jump ship to NA/EU.
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God dammit Naniwa! Why are you so damn sexy?
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On April 04 2013 12:50 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 12:45 MCXD wrote:I posted my thoughts on this, indirectly, in the GSL thread: I really hope the ESF players in particular give it their all. A lot of them feel like they're getting shortchanged and might try to drop out of the GSL by simply not caring/preparing and/or focusing entirely on the GSTL, so as to switch regions from KR to something else as soon as they can.
This would completely ruin the GSL...
I would not be surprised if by the end of 2013 GSL/OSL is almost entirely KeSPA players and most of the ESF players have decided to, if not already have, switched to NA/EU regions because of WCS and do not compete in the GSL anymore. While this isn't as much of a problem once it all happens and everything settles down. it is a problem when we still have pro-gamers who are unhappy with what they're stuck with and everything is admist a transition period. We've got many months to wait yet before things get fair and normal, I feel. It is very likely that the GSL as we know it will die and we will see a significant portion of the ESF players not play in it anymore. The most frustrating part of that, however, is right now, when the players who want to make a switch can't because they are stuck in Code A/S. Once everyone is settled and happy in the regions they want to be in things will get good again - but that may not be for another 9 months. I feel like there's pretty much no point to watching the GSL at all in the next few months. Honestly if this was a separate thing then it would be no problem. We could just say "if you don't like it, don't play in it" - except because the GSL/OSL are directly involved now... they have/could effectively ruin(ed) the two biggest, most important leagues in SC2. This isn't something you can just ignore. It's a big problem. "It is very likely" is just you talking out of your ass. We have no idea what's going to happen and we just have to wait and see. No point to watching GSL? That's overdramatic. If Korean players want to play in the most prestigious tournament, they will keep trying to compete in GSL/OSL, and I'd bet a lot of them will do just that. If nothing else, I can come up with equally convincing speculation that they will stay as you can that they will jump ship to NA/EU.
Any Code S player or high Code A (essentially fringe Code S) player would be nuts to change regions now, and if a bunch of Code B players switch, that's not really going to affect Code S except for an up and comer potentially in a few seasons. As I posted before, the money isn't changing for Koreans, only getting better if the Code B guys decide to take over NA.
EDIT: Essentially, you're completely right.
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MC definitely has a point. All of the Code A people basically get shafted. They have no say, they don't get points and they don't get to switch regions while all the foreigners get to. Korea should definitely be compensated in this system for being better and for having so many players screwed over like this. The GSL (As in Korean WCS) should definitely give more points. It is straight up not fair that that the foreign equivalent tournaments give the same number of points when the level of play isn't even close to the same. There should be incentives for Koreans to stay in Korea so that the level of play stays high and we don't see mass migration of Korean players to the US or EU. Currently there are no incentives. It is choose a foreign region (if you aren't screwed over by the system already and trapped in KR) and walk through the tournaments or stay in Korea, work your butt off, and still probably not get through. It is pretty obvious which choice those outside of the extreme top tier in Korea are going to choose. Well that or retire, which is even worse because that is harmful to the scene. Losing talent is never a good thing. We need a middle tier of solid pros that have good days and bad days. With this system it will turn into the top tier and those who have enough money to move or travel to other regions. I am worried about how this will affect up-and-coming players or those that aren't heavily funded.
It almost feels as though they planned this with the idea that people would stay in their current regions and not switch to easier ones. It seems like there were some MASSIVE oversights with the design of this system.
They also should have waited until next season to start this with the GSL for a couple reasons. A) so we could perhaps get a more evenly distributed race representation in GSL now that we have a new game (not to mention a more balanced game where skill is more of a factor now) rather than having 13 Zergs in the first season of WCS Korea that in some cases got there because of an old game, and B) so people currently in the GSL could know the system and have the choice between moving regions or staying.
This all feels very poorly planned when it comes to how Korea was fit into the system. I am hoping it turns out better than they have explained it but as it stands there are some glaring flaws that could potentially mess up the whole thing.
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On April 04 2013 12:50 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 12:45 MCXD wrote:I posted my thoughts on this, indirectly, in the GSL thread: I really hope the ESF players in particular give it their all. A lot of them feel like they're getting shortchanged and might try to drop out of the GSL by simply not caring/preparing and/or focusing entirely on the GSTL, so as to switch regions from KR to something else as soon as they can.
This would completely ruin the GSL...
I would not be surprised if by the end of 2013 GSL/OSL is almost entirely KeSPA players and most of the ESF players have decided to, if not already have, switched to NA/EU regions because of WCS and do not compete in the GSL anymore. While this isn't as much of a problem once it all happens and everything settles down. it is a problem when we still have pro-gamers who are unhappy with what they're stuck with and everything is admist a transition period. We've got many months to wait yet before things get fair and normal, I feel. It is very likely that the GSL as we know it will die and we will see a significant portion of the ESF players not play in it anymore. The most frustrating part of that, however, is right now, when the players who want to make a switch can't because they are stuck in Code A/S. Once everyone is settled and happy in the regions they want to be in things will get good again - but that may not be for another 9 months. I feel like there's pretty much no point to watching the GSL at all in the next few months. Honestly if this was a separate thing then it would be no problem. We could just say "if you don't like it, don't play in it" - except because the GSL/OSL are directly involved now... they have/could effectively ruin(ed) the two biggest, most important leagues in SC2. This isn't something you can just ignore. It's a big problem. "It is very likely" is just you talking out of your ass. We have no idea what's going to happen and we just have to wait and see. No point to watching GSL? That's overdramatic. If Korean players want to play in the most prestigious tournament, they will keep trying to compete in GSL/OSL, and I'd bet a lot of them will do just that. If nothing else, I can come up with equally convincing speculation that they will stay as you can that they will jump ship to NA/EU.
We can keep watching. But not everyone has this romantic ideals of just playing in the most prestigious tournament. They need to earn money too, they are doing it as a 'profession'. I'm fairly confident we will see a at least a small number of Koreans choosing to participate in NA/EU WCS if they can afford the investment.
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SO is the big decsion because you get locked into a region as soon as you play in one of the "leagues?" Does this mean no GSL players can play in IEM or MLG?? and vice versa? Or at the very least they can't earn points once locked into another region, basically giving them less incentive to do so?
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It probably would've been better to start WCS Korea from scratch as well . Beeing judged by a , lets face it , pretty broken WoL isn't exactly a great idea. Not to mention it completely scews any Asian thats not a Korean .
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On April 04 2013 12:55 onPHYRE wrote:
SO is the big decsion because you get locked into a region as soon as you play in one of the "leagues?" Does this mean no GSL players can play in IEM or MLG?? and vice versa?
No, you declare which region your WCS ranking and competition will be in, KR, NA or EU. You then play in WCS sanctioned events online and at the major tournament in your region, accruing points. There's a system for who has the most points at certain intervals, which eventually leads to a few WCS affiliated LANs at the big regional tournaments like MLG and IEM and then the final at Blizzcon.
There will be non-WCS affiliated portions at MLG, IEM etc. which anyone will be able to participate in, regardless of region.
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On April 04 2013 12:50 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 12:42 Kim Hyuna wrote:On April 04 2013 12:36 rei wrote:On April 04 2013 12:32 Kim Hyuna wrote:
What MC said is true. WCS KR using GSL top 32 Code S as qualifier for WCS main event is an no go.
Meaning those potential that have chance to win the whole WCS (e.g. Code A YongHwa. Ryung, HerO. Nestea, aLive, ByuN etc) will NOT be able to even qualify for it.
Moving away from KR scene by joining EU/NA team would gave them an easier chance to qualify for WCS main event since korean's has been dominating EU/NA events. This is the worst case making Korean's programers to leave their home ground for a EU/NA teams. (e.g. Polt would swipe them whole NA qualifier). I would not say an easier chance to qualify, they don't have to leave their home ground for a EU/NA team, they just need to fly to NA/EU for that particular weekend that MLG is happening or whatever other tournament is happening, just like what they had been doing all along for the past 2 years. Only thing is that if any korean do this they will not be completing in gsl, and that's all, they will still win all the money and all the points. Like what MC said, GSL alone is a prestige tournament which all Korean's progamers want a shot at it. Leaving KR to join MLG but not being able to participate in GSL is a [b ]no for most of them. Yonghwa knew he could take down MLG in ease that's why he left GSL U&D for it. and this mentality of wanting a shot at the most prestige is what drives the koreans to be the best, but not every korean have the guts to clime the highest mountain if they choose to take the ez way out and win some money the option is there, blizzard made this system to reward skills(and koreans have all the skills), but at the end of the day, if you want to win it all at the end of the final tournament, you would have to go through all those ppl that qualify through the GSL anyways. Here is the bottom line, the koreans will win every tournament, and all the money in all 3 continents. [/b]
You still fail to see my point. The new format of putting Top 32 Code S for WCS is a joke and not because the Korean's doesn't have the guts to climb the highest mountain. Even with the guts and skills, they were unable to compete in WCS because they are in GSL Code A/B putting them in the lowest point as a programer and do note that Korean's have very big ego in their pride.
By refusing an entry to WCS because they are labelled as Code A/B would basically kill off their career as an programer in KR. Like i said again, Blizzard need to think and give chances to those A/B players too.
Not all Code A/B players are as BAD as compared to those Top 32 Code S players. And, this is HOTS not WoL and fair play system needs to kick in allowing the A/B players to participate.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Like I've said, I only care about Korean leagues so I am still on the fence (leaning towards upset) about WCS. I couldn't care less about NA/EU.
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Naniwa and Sase are geniuses. All the koreans will go to NA and EU looking for easy wins, only to end up playing each other anyway and leaving no Koreans left in Korea, leading to an epic Nani/Sase GSL finals. Mindgames...such ballers those two.
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On April 04 2013 12:57 AgentW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 12:55 onPHYRE wrote:
SO is the big decsion because you get locked into a region as soon as you play in one of the "leagues?" Does this mean no GSL players can play in IEM or MLG?? and vice versa? No, you declare which region your WCS ranking and competition will be in, KR, NA or EU. You then play in WCS sanctioned events online and at the major tournament in your region, accruing points. There's a system for who has the most points at certain intervals, which eventually leads to a few WCS affiliated LANs at the big regional tournaments like MLG and IEM and then the final at Blizzcon. There will be non-WCS affiliated portions at MLG, IEM etc. which anyone will be able to participate in, regardless of region.
This would mean even more Koreans will show up in foreigner tournaments to raise the skill level of foreign events, blizzard had thought this through, good move.
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On April 04 2013 13:00 vesicular wrote:
Naniwa and Sase are geniuses. All the koreans will go to NA and EU looking for easy wins, only to end up playing each other anyway and leaving no Koreans left in Korea, leading to an epic Nani/Sase GSL finals. Mindgames...such ballers those two.
Sad to say, even most KR programers leave KR scene still leave them no chance to beating a KR programer in GSL final.
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On April 04 2013 13:00 vesicular wrote:
Naniwa and Sase are geniuses. All the koreans will go to NA and EU looking for easy wins, only to end up playing each other anyway and leaving no Koreans left in Korea, leading to an epic Nani/Sase GSL finals. Mindgames...such ballers those two.
You had me on board until I remembered KeSPA's not going anywhere T_T
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On April 04 2013 13:00 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 12:57 AgentW wrote:On April 04 2013 12:55 onPHYRE wrote:
SO is the big decsion because you get locked into a region as soon as you play in one of the "leagues?" Does this mean no GSL players can play in IEM or MLG?? and vice versa? No, you declare which region your WCS ranking and competition will be in, KR, NA or EU. You then play in WCS sanctioned events online and at the major tournament in your region, accruing points. There's a system for who has the most points at certain intervals, which eventually leads to a few WCS affiliated LANs at the big regional tournaments like MLG and IEM and then the final at Blizzcon. There will be non-WCS affiliated portions at MLG, IEM etc. which anyone will be able to participate in, regardless of region. This would mean even more Koreans will show up in foreigner tournaments to raise the skill level of foreign events, blizzard had thought this through, good move.
What? I don't see what you're saying. Koreans are still going to be limited by what their teams can afford to pay to send them, and that's always going to be the bottom line.
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On April 04 2013 13:00 vesicular wrote:
Naniwa and Sase are geniuses. All the koreans will go to NA and EU looking for easy wins, only to end up playing each other anyway and leaving no Koreans left in Korea, leading to an epic Nani/Sase GSL finals. Mindgames...such ballers those two.
They both have foresight in seeing there would be a mass increase of koreans in foreigner events because of this, and it would be impossible like it had always been for them to win anything at all, and they would be better off training and compete with the best to get better.
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On April 04 2013 12:55 s3rp wrote:
It probably would've been better to start WCS Korea from scratch as well . Beeing judged by a , lets face it , pretty broken WoL isn't exactly a great idea. Not to mention it completely scews any Asian thats not a Korean .
pretty much this.
but i have to wonder if gomtv and ogn will just do another tournaments and maybe call that OSL and GSL instead.
they could use the "old money" from other sponsors for that and the money from blizz for WCS korea.
one big thing i didnt see mentioned is that GSL is now on korean TV (or was it before?), that could lead to bigger interest and probably catch some new sponsors for korean teams.
well lets wait and see what happens, i hope it will be fine^^
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Weird. I would have thought this would be a good thing for korean pros. I don't understand how this is worse than a WCS korea where they face the same competition anyway? It's bad for foreign quals but great for korea...
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Did Polt's Machiavellian plan get edited out or something?
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On April 04 2013 12:58 lichter wrote:
Like I've said, I only care about Korean leagues so I am still on the fence (leaning towards upset) about WCS. I couldn't care less about NA/EU.
Agreed. Either we'll see top tier Koreans leave GSL to compete internationally, or we'll see top tier Koreans get shafted for WCS. The Korean WCS is going to be brutal, so that will be great to watch. But the competition afterwards, involving all three areas won't be nearly as good I feel.
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EPT
