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MC goes off on WCS & Polt's Machiavellian plan - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
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ThomasjServo
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
15244 Posts
April 04 2013 20:11 GMT
#381
I pulled five off the top of my head, could be any other number that works with the tournament format.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 20:40:23
April 04 2013 20:16 GMT
#382
On April 05 2013 04:40 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 04:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Another upside of this is that it ends to welfare seeds for foreigners into GSL.


amen.


And hopefully welfare plane fare and hotels for Koreans coming to MLG. And brackets for them to qualify for Korea, with a separate bracket for kespa, just to make sure they are there too.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Moa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States790 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 20:36:58
April 04 2013 20:35 GMT
#383
On April 05 2013 04:56 ThomasjServo wrote:
I think region locking the qualifiers is the hatchet rather than scalpel solution to this issue. With the stated goal of Blizzard in this being raising SC2's esports profile having Min Chul be the "European Champion," will raise a lot of eyebrows from those who may be tuning in for the first time or more casual viewers.

I would like to and do expect to see Koreans qualifying elsewhere but perhaps a cap on number of seeds for region crossing players is a more middle of the road fix?

Say each region has five open seeds you can apply for which are given out by lottery to ensure fairness. Not one of the five who gets to play on another server you can play on your native server. Doubtful that there would be many takers to play on KR I don't know what bearing this would have on practice or preparation but it seems moderately equitable while still allowing for some lesser known players to remain competitive and work their way up a bit.


It may be a hatchet job but I think the new format is fundamentally flawed. The game is played globally and trying to make it regional is really just cutting out the best players so that some no-name player can get hype behind them. The Koreans shouldn't be punished for putting in more effort and being dominant they should be rewarded.

It is a fundamentally flawed idea to have favoritism built into a tournament's structure.
^O^
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
April 04 2013 20:44 GMT
#384
On April 05 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 04:40 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
On April 05 2013 04:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Another upside of this is that it ends to welfare seeds for foreigners into GSL.


amen.


And hopefully welfare plane fare and hotels for Koreans coming to MLG. And brackets for them to qualify for Korea without, with a separate bracket for kespa.


Oh don't tease me ... MLG going FULL FOREIGNER would be su-perb
Terran & Potato Salad.
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
April 04 2013 20:46 GMT
#385
On April 05 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 04:40 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
On April 05 2013 04:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Another upside of this is that it ends to welfare seeds for foreigners into GSL.


amen.


And hopefully welfare plane fare and hotels for Koreans coming to MLG. And brackets for them to qualify for Korea, with a separate bracket for kespa, just to make sure they are there too.



But them skillzzz!!!
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
April 04 2013 20:48 GMT
#386
On April 05 2013 05:35 Moa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 04:56 ThomasjServo wrote:
I think region locking the qualifiers is the hatchet rather than scalpel solution to this issue. With the stated goal of Blizzard in this being raising SC2's esports profile having Min Chul be the "European Champion," will raise a lot of eyebrows from those who may be tuning in for the first time or more casual viewers.

I would like to and do expect to see Koreans qualifying elsewhere but perhaps a cap on number of seeds for region crossing players is a more middle of the road fix?

Say each region has five open seeds you can apply for which are given out by lottery to ensure fairness. Not one of the five who gets to play on another server you can play on your native server. Doubtful that there would be many takers to play on KR I don't know what bearing this would have on practice or preparation but it seems moderately equitable while still allowing for some lesser known players to remain competitive and work their way up a bit.


It may be a hatchet job but I think the new format is fundamentally flawed. The game is played globally and trying to make it regional is really just cutting out the best players so that some no-name player can get hype behind them. The Koreans shouldn't be punished for putting in more effort and being dominant they should be rewarded.

It is a fundamentally flawed idea to have favoritism built into a tournament's structure.


To be fair; that was the stated goal of the WCS last year. To develop regional storylines and heroes, which in term help foster new communities.

I'm not sure how well it worked (esp since they're scrapping it this year); but for example there was a blog about the the 10 or so contestants for one of the Central American qualifiers and it looked like fun for all involved.

I wonder if this change is more due to the difficulties relying on tiny regional partners who may or may not know what they're doing than the failure to develop local scenes.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 04 2013 20:52 GMT
#387
On April 05 2013 05:44 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 05 2013 04:40 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
On April 05 2013 04:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Another upside of this is that it ends to welfare seeds for foreigners into GSL.


amen.


And hopefully welfare plane fare and hotels for Koreans coming to MLG. And brackets for them to qualify for Korea without, with a separate bracket for kespa.


Oh don't tease me ... MLG going FULL FOREIGNER would be su-perb


Agreed, but I don't like separate brackets for specific groups to bypass qualifying. Or free flights when the normal NA/EU player pays their way.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
mangomango
Profile Joined September 2009
United States265 Posts
April 04 2013 20:54 GMT
#388
MC telling it like he sees it. The man knows the business and he's a player with real money on the line.
Husky: Every drone you lose is like a needle in the eye. Nony: probes win $10k (Earn it! Idra Fighting) :P
Thrill
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
2599 Posts
April 04 2013 20:59 GMT
#389
Yeah fuck it. The system is fucking dreadful, not like the Code B no-namers had much to gain from the scene before either though but yes, certainly a slap in the face of koreans.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 04 2013 21:03 GMT
#390
On April 05 2013 05:59 Thrill wrote:
Yeah fuck it. The system is fucking dreadful, not like the Code B no-namers had much to gain from the scene before either though but yes, certainly a slap in the face of koreans.

I am sure they will get over it. There was no better system for Korea beyond making everyone qualify again, which just as bad. As I said before, life is hard and isn't fair, get a helmet.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Abominous
Profile Joined March 2013
Croatia1625 Posts
April 04 2013 21:07 GMT
#391
Soccer analogy is just bad. Look at FIFAs world cup club competition, only one European club and we all know how dominant Europe is in soccer. (in terms of clubs)
Same goes for World Cup for national teams, only South America can cope with Europe, and European cup is considered a lot more difficult than the World Cup.

I just hope it remains this way and somehow they prevent Koreans from farming other regions.
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4419 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 21:12:21
April 04 2013 21:10 GMT
#392
On April 05 2013 06:03 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 05:59 Thrill wrote:
Yeah fuck it. The system is fucking dreadful, not like the Code B no-namers had much to gain from the scene before either though but yes, certainly a slap in the face of koreans.

I am sure they will get over it. There was no better system for Korea beyond making everyone qualify again, which just as bad. As I said before, life is hard and isn't fair, get a helmet.


There was a way better system for Korea... Keep the GSL and WCS Korea separate tournaments... They should have just had OGN and Gom host their own tournaments while the other one of them was hosting WCS Korea. Then they'd swap etc. That would have been infinitely better than this for everyone.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 04 2013 21:15 GMT
#393
On April 05 2013 06:10 JJH777 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 06:03 Plansix wrote:
On April 05 2013 05:59 Thrill wrote:
Yeah fuck it. The system is fucking dreadful, not like the Code B no-namers had much to gain from the scene before either though but yes, certainly a slap in the face of koreans.

I am sure they will get over it. There was no better system for Korea beyond making everyone qualify again, which just as bad. As I said before, life is hard and isn't fair, get a helmet.


There was a way better system for Korea... Keep the GSL and WCS Korea separate tournaments... They should have just had OGN and Gom host their own tournaments while the other one of them was hosting WCS Korea. Then they'd swap etc. That would have been infinitely better than this for everyone.


Thats to many tournaments in Korea for the players and weaken the already existing torments. GOM and OGN would not have gone for that.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9071 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 21:24:57
April 04 2013 21:19 GMT
#394
On April 05 2013 06:07 Abominous wrote:
Soccer analogy is just bad. Look at FIFAs world cup club competition, only one European club and we all know how dominant Europe is in soccer. (in terms of clubs)
Same goes for World Cup for national teams, only South America can cope with Europe, and European cup is considered a lot more difficult than the World Cup.

I just hope it remains this way and somehow they prevent Koreans from farming other regions.

my thoughts exactly. EU only gets one direct seed per qualification group for the World Cup. France/Spain should totally complain about it. I can totally understand the koreans being upset, but making a point with football is completely wrong, it is the sport where certain region gets fucked to reach better diversity
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 21:25:02
April 04 2013 21:23 GMT
#395
On April 05 2013 05:48 Wuster wrote:
To be fair; that was the stated goal of the WCS last year. To develop regional storylines and heroes, which in term help foster new communities.

I'm not sure how well it worked (esp since they're scrapping it this year); but for example there was a blog about the the 10 or so contestants for one of the Central American qualifiers and it looked like fun for all involved.

I wonder if this change is more due to the difficulties relying on tiny regional partners who may or may not know what they're doing than the failure to develop local scenes.



Hey, that falls back on Blizzard as well. It's their fault for piggybacking on other organizers to carry out the bloody thing. Think of their prize money as a stimulus package.

On April 05 2013 06:19 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 06:07 Abominous wrote:
Soccer analogy is just bad. Look at FIFAs world cup club competition, only one European club and we all know how dominant Europe is in soccer. (in terms of clubs)
Same goes for World Cup for national teams, only South America can cope with Europe, and European cup is considered a lot more difficult than the World Cup.

I just hope it remains this way and somehow they prevent Koreans from farming other regions.

my thoughts exactly. EU only gets one direct seed per qualification group for the World Group. France/Spain should totally complain about it. I can totally understand the koreans being upset, but making a point with football is completely wrong, it is the sport where certain region gets fucked to reach better diversity


I see a lot of people trying to make stupid analogies from time to time. I wish it would stop, but they keep coming. Whether we be talking about piracy or game formats. It never ends!
Cyrak
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada536 Posts
April 04 2013 21:29 GMT
#396
On April 05 2013 05:44 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 05 2013 04:40 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
On April 05 2013 04:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Another upside of this is that it ends to welfare seeds for foreigners into GSL.


amen.


And hopefully welfare plane fare and hotels for Koreans coming to MLG. And brackets for them to qualify for Korea without, with a separate bracket for kespa.


Oh don't tease me ... MLG going FULL FOREIGNER would be su-perb


I'd actually be curious to see a poll of MLG ticket buyers that asked whether they would prefer all foreigners or having a Korean presence because I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum from you on this.
Fortune favors the prepared mind.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
April 04 2013 21:37 GMT
#397
On April 05 2013 06:29 Cyrak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 05:44 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
On April 05 2013 05:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 05 2013 04:40 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
On April 05 2013 04:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Another upside of this is that it ends to welfare seeds for foreigners into GSL.


amen.


And hopefully welfare plane fare and hotels for Koreans coming to MLG. And brackets for them to qualify for Korea without, with a separate bracket for kespa.


Oh don't tease me ... MLG going FULL FOREIGNER would be su-perb


I'd actually be curious to see a poll of MLG ticket buyers that asked whether they would prefer all foreigners or having a Korean presence because I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum from you on this.

Ditto. I wouldn't watch a single game if it were full foreigner.
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
April 04 2013 21:40 GMT
#398
mlg knows well enough that no koreans = no good for business
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 04 2013 21:42 GMT
#399
IMO it's best to integrate WCS with GSL and OSL. From a spectator standpoint it's much more meaningful for those two main tournaments to have implications for WCS, rather than for WCS to be just another tourney among many. Blizzard did the best they could given the existing system.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
April 04 2013 21:46 GMT
#400
On April 05 2013 06:40 rift wrote:
mlg knows well enough that no koreans = no good for business

Yet DreamHack manages to be one of, if not the, most successful tournament without specifically catering to Koreans. DreamHack Winter had 4 Koreans, all on foreign teams (AKA, ones that would pay flight expenses), yet it had one of the highest viewer counts for 2012.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
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