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On April 05 2013 00:56 InsidiA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 00:51 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On April 05 2013 00:48 InsidiA wrote:
Was thinking the exact same thing. First season of WCS should be open and not have the seeded Code S players because it becomes impossible for the non-Code S Koreans to even have a shot at getting anywhere near representing Korea. Also how Code S is set up means that very little new players will be able to get into this top 32 (?) and overall it'll just be very difficult for the majority of Korean pro-gamers to get anywhere near WCS. from 5 code S + 1 OSL to now 3 WCS, and with many kespa players entering the sc2 scene. Yeah they're getting screwed pretty badly :[ The GSL format was just never very good for the smaller more unknown players because of how difficult it is to get from Code B to Code S yet how easy it is to retain your Code S spot if youre in it (yes i realize they earned this spot). At this point it seems with WCS being less frequent and having so much prize pool it'll just seem silly for these lesser players to play in WCS.
I wouldn't quite say it's easy to hold a code S spot. A lot of people go from S to B within a season. I obviously do agree that going from B to S is harder than holding S, though.
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Any format where players from all nationalities can compete in a league, but are locked into one league, is just terrible. Imo Blizzard made their decisions to cather to the casual SC2 viewers and is basicly screwing the "hardcore" fans pretty hard.
If we ignore the 3 worldwide finals for a second, who do you think would be able to gain the most points over the 3 regional competitions? It would be the best players (probably the koreans that move over) in NA/EU because the competition there will be so soft that variance will be much much lower for them and they will be able to make deeper runs more easily.
On the other hand if we would somehow be able to repeat this whole event 1000 times what would basicly happen is that all the koreans would spread out so that the skill level is about the same in all 3 regions. This would also mean that Team Leagues would pretty much be dead or at least suck. It would also mean that the meta game and skill level would evolve slower because for most of the year there would be 3 seperate equally skilled player pools who are barely in contact with each other.
It would also mean that the final leagues would be 3 different groups of players that have stories around them amongst them selves, but stories between groups would be pretty much non existant because they would simply have never faced during the year, or maybe once during the Finals Event.
I think a simple solution would be for Blizzard to just accept South-Koreas superiority and make the NA/EU events online based and have week long finals stage where the final few rounds are played. During that week, Korean leagues would be on break. That way everyone can enter every event and we have 3 big leagues spread over the world that fans AND casuals can enjoy.
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i agree with obamatoss 100%
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On April 05 2013 01:24 bbfg wrote:
Any format where players from all nationalities can compete in a league, but are locked into one league, is just terrible. Imo Blizzard made their decisions to cather to the casual SC2 viewers and is basicly screwing the "hardcore" fans pretty hard.
If we ignore the 3 worldwide finals for a second, who do you think would be able to gain the most points over the 3 regional competitions? It would be the best players (probably the koreans that move over) in NA/EU because the competition there will be so soft that variance will be much much lower for them and they will be able to make deeper runs more easily.
On the other hand if we would somehow be able to repeat this whole event 1000 times what would basicly happen is that all the koreans would spread out so that the skill level is about the same in all 3 regions. This would also mean that Team Leagues would pretty much be dead or at least suck. It would also mean that the meta game and skill level would evolve slower because for most of the year there would be 3 seperate equally skilled player pools who are barely in contact with each other.
It would also mean that the final leagues would be 3 different groups of players that have stories around them amongst them selves, but stories between groups would be pretty much non existant because they would simply have never faced during the year, or maybe once during the Finals Event.
I think a simple solution would be would be for Blizzard to just accept South-Koreas superiority and make the NA/EU events online based and have week long finals stage where the final few rounds are played. During that week, Korean leagues would be on break. That way everyone can enter every event and we have 3 big leagues spread over the world that fans AND casuals can enjoy.
So you want more NASL's with an "extra-long weekend LAN" ?
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MC , yup.
If you ain't from a the continent , how can you play in that tournaments competition ? So so stupid lol.
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On April 05 2013 02:30 MrSourGit wrote:
MC , yup.
If you ain't from a the continent , how can you play in that tournaments competition ? So so stupid lol.
because anything else would mean the death of foreigners going to korea to train
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I guess if there was some strict rules about people from other continents playing in other continents' tournaments (e.g. europeans in NA, americans in EU, koreans in EU/NA) it would be a lot safer for players. Something like 'you must be a resident of the country for at least 12 months or full WCS season. That way Koreans would have no reason to stay in EU/NA for 12 months to only play NASL or DreamHack. But people who are commited or have the infrastructure ready for them (Polt, Rain, SeleCT and EG or TeamLiquid players + any other) would be 'more eligible' to compete in NA or EU since they don't practice in Korea and only move to other countries to get some moneyz in WCS.
Are there any T&C's out yet for WCS? It's hard to believe that Blizzard would make all that effort to have separate tournaments to just have it filled with Koreans everywhere. But then... who knows.
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On April 05 2013 02:30 MrSourGit wrote:
MC , yup.
If you ain't from a the continent , how can you play in that tournaments competition ? So so stupid lol.
Because regions are set up for logistical reasons and not for the purpose of segregating who can play whom? This isn't that complicated.
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I just want the WCS to fucking begin so that Koreans just get more free money and I'll laugh and not give a care about NA teams that I never watch on stream anyways.
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On April 05 2013 03:03 kennyf wrote:
I guess if there was some strict rules about people from other continents playing in other continents' tournaments (e.g. europeans in NA, americans in EU, koreans in EU/NA) it would be a lot safer for players. Something like 'you must be a resident of the country for at least 12 months or full WCS season. That way Koreans would have no reason to stay in EU/NA for 12 months to only play NASL or DreamHack. But people who are commited or have the infrastructure ready for them (Polt, Rain, SeleCT and EG or TeamLiquid players + any other) would be 'more eligible' to compete in NA or EU since they don't practice in Korea and only move to other countries to get some moneyz in WCS.
Are there any T&C's out yet for WCS? It's hard to believe that Blizzard would make all that effort to have separate tournaments to just have it filled with Koreans everywhere. But then... who knows.
So say Idra suddenly falls in love with a German girl, and wants to move to europe and live with her.
He must then wait like a year before he can try to play in WCS again?
And if she breaks up with him, and Idra moves back to us - he must wait another year before rejoining US WCS?
The residence requirement is bad because it has so many ways to screw people over.
The format with the LAN part, will most likely be enough that everyone who actually plans to earn moneys will likely have to move for quite a long period anyways, so why set restrictions that may bar some players from participating in ANY region.
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Completely agree with the bosstoss; I hope the system changes.
Also, Nani and Sase are amazing.
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Another upside of this is that it ends to welfare seeds for foreigners into GSL.
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On April 05 2013 04:24 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:03 kennyf wrote:
I guess if there was some strict rules about people from other continents playing in other continents' tournaments (e.g. europeans in NA, americans in EU, koreans in EU/NA) it would be a lot safer for players. Something like 'you must be a resident of the country for at least 12 months or full WCS season. That way Koreans would have no reason to stay in EU/NA for 12 months to only play NASL or DreamHack. But people who are commited or have the infrastructure ready for them (Polt, Rain, SeleCT and EG or TeamLiquid players + any other) would be 'more eligible' to compete in NA or EU since they don't practice in Korea and only move to other countries to get some moneyz in WCS.
Are there any T&C's out yet for WCS? It's hard to believe that Blizzard would make all that effort to have separate tournaments to just have it filled with Koreans everywhere. But then... who knows. So say Idra suddenly falls in love with a German girl, and wants to move to europe and live with her. He must then wait like a year before he can try to play in WCS again? And if she breaks up with him, and Idra moves back to us - he must wait another year before rejoining US WCS? The residence requirement is bad because it has so many ways to screw people over. The format with the LAN part, will most likely be enough that everyone who actually plans to earn moneys will likely have to move for quite a long period anyways, so why set restrictions that may bar some players from participating in ANY region.
Obviously if there is a really strict rule about residency it would lead to kind of idiotic situations. But if it was something like you have to stay in a certain region for a certain amount of time if you want to play in it then I can't really see how this screws people over.
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On April 05 2013 04:32 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Another upside of this is that it ends to welfare seeds for foreigners into GSL.
amen.
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This thread is awful, 90% of the posters didn't understand what MC said.
Instead they went off-topic talking about the same "the bests must win and get the money" shit. Nobody talked about that.
I will resume the situation a little bit and sum up MC thoughts :
-there will be less big events in Korea in general so less money to win eventually in Korea ;
-without a rework of these tournaments's format, with the amount of players and the addition of Kespa it's harder for good koreans to make money;
-WCS works by points and the first season of WCS is based on GSL, so Code A/B really good players who can't pierce through Code A can't play in the event with the biggest prize-pool of the year; basically it's not an open qualifier anymore;
-the whole WCS poses a dilema to most koreans pro players, leave GSL for 1 year and try easier money outside or try to compete in the best league;
-the online part in EU and NA is retarded as Koreans won't need to stay abroad for long and a long stay of koreans abroad would raise the skill in these scenes; if it was a weekly lan we could even see teamhouses rise;
A global league divided in NA, KR, EU is a really good idea screamed since ages ago but Blizzard is disapointing, they should have just made LCS in NA and EU and give money for tournaments in Korea.
Instead i feel like they worsened things in Korea, they should have let them sort things out and give them money like Riot does to the Korean's scene (or if they wanted to change things so badly why not combine GSTL and PL and make like 6 GSL/OSL per year), also they didnt do the right things in EU and NA perhaps they were too proud to copy everything that Riot did but then they are bad buisnessmen.
That thing is a step forward, Blizzard takes concrete actions finally, but there will be a lot of rework to do, the system announced like that is miles away from what it should be.
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I totally agree with MC. How is it a WCS if anyone can qualify from anywhere? What's the point of playing KR when you can go to NA/EU and have an easy time AND make money?
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I think region locking the qualifiers is the hatchet rather than scalpel solution to this issue. With the stated goal of Blizzard in this being raising SC2's esports profile having Min Chul be the "European Champion," will raise a lot of eyebrows from those who may be tuning in for the first time or more casual viewers.
I would like to and do expect to see Koreans qualifying elsewhere but perhaps a cap on number of seeds for region crossing players is a more middle of the road fix?
Say each region has five open seeds you can apply for which are given out by lottery to ensure fairness. Not one of the five who gets to play on another server you can play on your native server. Doubtful that there would be many takers to play on KR I don't know what bearing this would have on practice or preparation but it seems moderately equitable while still allowing for some lesser known players to remain competitive and work their way up a bit.
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I guess the problem is the 5-5-5 players. It should be sometnhing like 8-4-4 (Korea, US, EU), no extra spot.
It would stop this rant.
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I think Mike Morhaime better be working 14 hours a day, every day, for at least a year, before he tries uttering that BS again, with a straight face, about "non Koreans need to try harder." Imagine working 10 hours a day and being shitted on because you're not as good as a Korean working 14 hours plus. That's a great fucking message to send. Non Koreans, if you want any money, spend 24/7 playing our game. Real inspirational and healthy. If non Koreans spent as much time practicing as they spent coming up with this format, we would all be plat at best.
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EPT
