On June 13 2013 03:22 SilverStar wrote: I wonder how much Riot knew of Azubus business when they got involved with them in Korea.
What leads you to believe that Riot in particular might know something all other parties did not. After all Riot is a big company, with many loose mouths.
A more interesting connection would be what did OGN know about Azubu before letting them sponsor their tournament. I myself wonder if OGN could be held liable for anything through a financial connection of the prize money that originated from Azubu.
They might have connection, tho it would mean devastation to e-sports scene in Korea. I don't wanna believe it either.
You guys know why all this new information regarding Kim and his paper company was brought up to the surface all of sudden?
There are two big things are going on in Korea right now.
1. Korean government is actively investigating CJ group for tax evasion through paper companies established abroad. They already have search warrant and is about to arrest big names. 2. On the other hand, those called investigative journalists independently found names and founders of paper companies founded in British Virgin Island for tax evasion purposes. One of released name was Kim Seok Ki.
First of all, CJ = OGN. They are the same company.
If korean government finds connection between Kim's paper companies and CJ's money, then it's BOOM.
and dont forget Kim was ex-husband of CJ's vice president...
Holy cow! Does this mean if CJ goes boom, then OGN goes boom too?! Which in turn means GOM becomes supreme esports overlord and all the sc2 and lol leagues are belong to them?!
On June 13 2013 03:22 SilverStar wrote: I wonder how much Riot knew of Azubus business when they got involved with them in Korea.
What leads you to believe that Riot in particular might know something all other parties did not. After all Riot is a big company, with many loose mouths.
A more interesting connection would be what did OGN know about Azubu before letting them sponsor their tournament. I myself wonder if OGN could be held liable for anything through a financial connection of the prize money that originated from Azubu.
They might have connection, tho it would mean devastation to e-sports scene in Korea. I don't wanna believe it either.
You guys know why all this new information regarding Kim and his paper company was brought up to the surface all of sudden?
There are two big things are going on in Korea right now.
1. Korean government is actively investigating CJ group for tax evasion through paper companies established abroad. They already have search warrant and is about to arrest big names. 2. On the other hand, those called investigative journalists independently found names and founders of paper companies founded in British Virgin Island for tax evasion purposes. One of released name was Kim Seok Ki.
First of all, CJ = OGN. They are the same company.
If korean government finds connection between Kim's paper companies and CJ's money, then it's BOOM.
and dont forget Kim was ex-husband of CJ's vice president...
Holy cow! Does this mean if CJ goes boom, then OGN goes boom too?! Which in turn means GOM becomes supreme esports overlord and all the sc2 and lol leagues are belong to them?!
If CJ went complete boom, from my understanding, OGN would be gone for sure. Though if CJ just takes a huge hit, they can still survive but I can still see OGN going down with them, leaving all your base to belong to GOM.
On June 13 2013 03:22 SilverStar wrote: I wonder how much Riot knew of Azubus business when they got involved with them in Korea.
What leads you to believe that Riot in particular might know something all other parties did not. After all Riot is a big company, with many loose mouths.
A more interesting connection would be what did OGN know about Azubu before letting them sponsor their tournament. I myself wonder if OGN could be held liable for anything through a financial connection of the prize money that originated from Azubu.
They might have connection, tho it would mean devastation to e-sports scene in Korea. I don't wanna believe it either.
You guys know why all this new information regarding Kim and his paper company was brought up to the surface all of sudden?
There are two big things are going on in Korea right now.
1. Korean government is actively investigating CJ group for tax evasion through paper companies established abroad. They already have search warrant and is about to arrest big names. 2. On the other hand, those called investigative journalists independently found names and founders of paper companies founded in British Virgin Island for tax evasion purposes. One of released name was Kim Seok Ki.
First of all, CJ = OGN. They are the same company.
If korean government finds connection between Kim's paper companies and CJ's money, then it's BOOM.
and dont forget Kim was ex-husband of CJ's vice president...
Whoaaaaaaaaaa this really is interesting. Considering Azubu's LoL teams they had at one point in time are now CJ's teams. o.o
In case you are interested, news on CJ/BVI paper company/tax news are already available in English. However, they are not directly related to azubu case yet.
CJ won't go boom don't worry, gov may investigate them for tax evasion but pretty sure that a lot of gov. ppl are on CJ's paylist and thousands of jobs depend on CJ.
On 6/10/2013, Silverio I. Park, Co-Founder of AZUBU, posted on his blog that he resigned from his position at AZUBU on April 2013, and he wants all the questions regarding AZUBU directed to AZUBU homepage.
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Really? In what country? Because AFAIK, knowingly, or sometimes even unknowingly, handling or receiving etc the proceeds of a crime is a crime itself. If they know or suspect money they are receiving is from fraud, then they are potentially able to be charged with receiving proceeds of a crime, that's the law in the US, UK and Australia, for example, and probably many other countries as well.
That's really not how it works... it's easy to say something like that and you might even make a case for it in strictly semantic/literal terms. But judges oftentimes recognize the in-feasibility of being so arrest/punishment happy, especially if it's unknowingly.
Think about it this way, just how many random butlers/restaurants/waiters were tipped by Bernie Madoff and just how many establishments are visited on a daily basis by criminals?
On June 13 2013 04:34 anemoneya wrote: In case you are interested, news on CJ/BVI paper company/tax news are already available in English. However, they are not directly related to azubu case yet.
Since this got me really interested now, I've been trying to look into who Woong's(http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Woong) father is, but I can't seem to find his name or occupation listing. The best I could find was this thread. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2679461 Which says he's the president of a company called Yezi Genenral Construction Corp. Was trying to see if he had any ties to CJ with Yezi Genenral Construction Corp apparently being the main sponsor of Azubu's gaming stuff. Unfortunately I can't find any trace of the company and don't even know if it exists.
Do you know his father's name or company he is with?
On June 13 2013 04:34 anemoneya wrote: In case you are interested, news on CJ/BVI paper company/tax news are already available in English. However, they are not directly related to azubu case yet.
Since this got me really interested now, I've been trying to look into who Woong's(http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Woong) father is, but I can't seem to find his name or occupation listing. The best I could find was this thread. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2679461 Which says he's the president of a company called Yezi Genenral Construction Corp. Was trying to see if he had any ties to CJ with Yezi Genenral Construction Corp apparently being the main sponsor of Azubu's gaming stuff. Unfortunately I can't find any trace of the company and don't even know if it exists.
Do you know his father's name or company he is with?
It's construction company. Woong's father sponsored MiG when LoL scene in Korea was relatively small. They changed team name to Azubu after Azubu took over. I don't see any connection between Yeji and CJ besides sponsoring the same team.
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Really? In what country? Because AFAIK, knowingly, or sometimes even unknowingly, handling or receiving etc the proceeds of a crime is a crime itself. If they know or suspect money they are receiving is from fraud, then they are potentially able to be charged with receiving proceeds of a crime, that's the law in the US, UK and Australia, for example, and probably many other countries as well.
That's really not how it works... it's easy to say something like that and you might even make a case for it in strictly semantic/literal terms. But judges oftentimes recognize the in-feasibility of being so arrest/punishment happy, especially if it's unknowingly.
Think about it this way, just how many random butlers/restaurants/waiters were tipped by Bernie Madoff and just how many establishments are visited on a daily basis by criminals?
Past money, no, current or future money, if they are still even getting paid, then yes. They wouldn't necessarily be considered guilty for past money received, but anything from when there was a high level of suspicion they could be found guilty. Also the original post said police can go after them because they "now know". Which is true, which is what I was agreeing with under the assumption they were still getting money, although really they probably aren't, so they won't be guilty if they haven't received anything.
If they do receive money now and then cash it out ASAP, then they would almost certainly be found guilty, for example. They are at a point where the players/manager can somewhat reasonably assume the money has a high probability of being dodgy, and therefore they could be found guilty.
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Really? In what country? Because AFAIK, knowingly, or sometimes even unknowingly, handling or receiving etc the proceeds of a crime is a crime itself. If they know or suspect money they are receiving is from fraud, then they are potentially able to be charged with receiving proceeds of a crime, that's the law in the US, UK and Australia, for example, and probably many other countries as well.
That's really not how it works... it's easy to say something like that and you might even make a case for it in strictly semantic/literal terms. But judges oftentimes recognize the in-feasibility of being so arrest/punishment happy, especially if it's unknowingly.
Think about it this way, just how many random butlers/restaurants/waiters were tipped by Bernie Madoff and just how many establishments are visited on a daily basis by criminals?
Past money, no, current or future money, if they are still even getting paid, then yes. They wouldn't necessarily be considered guilty for past money received, but anything from when there was a high level of suspicion they could be found guilty. Also the original post said police can go after them because they "now know". Which is true, which is what I was agreeing with under the assumption they were still getting money, although really they probably aren't, so they won't be guilty if they haven't received anything.
If they do receive money now and then cash it out ASAP, then they would almost certainly be found guilty, for example. They are at a point where the players/manager can somewhat reasonably assume the money has a high probability of being dodgy, and therefore they could be found guilty.
So if you're a worker at some company that is involved in some scandal (say, money laundering), working there becomes illegal once the rumors start and are publicly discussed?
I'm fairly certain that's not how the world or the law works, anywhere.
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Really? In what country? Because AFAIK, knowingly, or sometimes even unknowingly, handling or receiving etc the proceeds of a crime is a crime itself. If they know or suspect money they are receiving is from fraud, then they are potentially able to be charged with receiving proceeds of a crime, that's the law in the US, UK and Australia, for example, and probably many other countries as well.
That's really not how it works... it's easy to say something like that and you might even make a case for it in strictly semantic/literal terms. But judges oftentimes recognize the in-feasibility of being so arrest/punishment happy, especially if it's unknowingly.
Think about it this way, just how many random butlers/restaurants/waiters were tipped by Bernie Madoff and just how many establishments are visited on a daily basis by criminals?
Past money, no, current or future money, if they are still even getting paid, then yes. They wouldn't necessarily be considered guilty for past money received, but anything from when there was a high level of suspicion they could be found guilty. Also the original post said police can go after them because they "now know". Which is true, which is what I was agreeing with under the assumption they were still getting money, although really they probably aren't, so they won't be guilty if they haven't received anything.
If they do receive money now and then cash it out ASAP, then they would almost certainly be found guilty, for example. They are at a point where the players/manager can somewhat reasonably assume the money has a high probability of being dodgy, and therefore they could be found guilty.
So if you're a worker at some company that is involved in some scandal (say, money laundering), working there becomes illegal once the rumors start and are publicly discussed?
I'm fairly certain that's not how the world or the law works, anywhere.
If there is reasonable suspicion that you are knowledgeable and profiting off of money obtained through illegal means, you can be detained for it, at least in the US.
If you're some non-important low-level office worker in a company where the CEO is implicated in money laundering, you're probably safe.
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Really? In what country? Because AFAIK, knowingly, or sometimes even unknowingly, handling or receiving etc the proceeds of a crime is a crime itself. If they know or suspect money they are receiving is from fraud, then they are potentially able to be charged with receiving proceeds of a crime, that's the law in the US, UK and Australia, for example, and probably many other countries as well.
That's really not how it works... it's easy to say something like that and you might even make a case for it in strictly semantic/literal terms. But judges oftentimes recognize the in-feasibility of being so arrest/punishment happy, especially if it's unknowingly.
Think about it this way, just how many random butlers/restaurants/waiters were tipped by Bernie Madoff and just how many establishments are visited on a daily basis by criminals?
Past money, no, current or future money, if they are still even getting paid, then yes. They wouldn't necessarily be considered guilty for past money received, but anything from when there was a high level of suspicion they could be found guilty. Also the original post said police can go after them because they "now know". Which is true, which is what I was agreeing with under the assumption they were still getting money, although really they probably aren't, so they won't be guilty if they haven't received anything.
If they do receive money now and then cash it out ASAP, then they would almost certainly be found guilty, for example. They are at a point where the players/manager can somewhat reasonably assume the money has a high probability of being dodgy, and therefore they could be found guilty.
So if you're a worker at some company that is involved in some scandal (say, money laundering), working there becomes illegal once the rumors start and are publicly discussed?
I'm fairly certain that's not how the world or the law works, anywhere.
If there is reasonable suspicion that you are knowledgeable and profiting off of money obtained through illegal means, you can be detained for it, at least in the US.
If you're some non-important low-level office worker in a company where the CEO is implicated in money laundering, you're probably safe.
I don't think that's entirely true. What you are likely referring to is a law that is meant to use to prosecute pimps and fences, not paid employees of an organization that may be used for money laundering.
Besides, if this was true, many criminal defense lawyers would be in trouble (not to mention the lawyers for Enron, Madoff, etc.).
What I do not understand is that a guy like Windhost bankrupted several corporations and he himself had about 60 millions in debt where he could pay back 1% or so and they still allow him to conduct any business ? Thats like driving a car in a group of bikers several times and not getting your driver license taken away lol...
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Really? In what country? Because AFAIK, knowingly, or sometimes even unknowingly, handling or receiving etc the proceeds of a crime is a crime itself. If they know or suspect money they are receiving is from fraud, then they are potentially able to be charged with receiving proceeds of a crime, that's the law in the US, UK and Australia, for example, and probably many other countries as well.
That's really not how it works... it's easy to say something like that and you might even make a case for it in strictly semantic/literal terms. But judges oftentimes recognize the in-feasibility of being so arrest/punishment happy, especially if it's unknowingly.
Think about it this way, just how many random butlers/restaurants/waiters were tipped by Bernie Madoff and just how many establishments are visited on a daily basis by criminals?
Past money, no, current or future money, if they are still even getting paid, then yes. They wouldn't necessarily be considered guilty for past money received, but anything from when there was a high level of suspicion they could be found guilty. Also the original post said police can go after them because they "now know". Which is true, which is what I was agreeing with under the assumption they were still getting money, although really they probably aren't, so they won't be guilty if they haven't received anything.
If they do receive money now and then cash it out ASAP, then they would almost certainly be found guilty, for example. They are at a point where the players/manager can somewhat reasonably assume the money has a high probability of being dodgy, and therefore they could be found guilty.
So if you're a worker at some company that is involved in some scandal (say, money laundering), working there becomes illegal once the rumors start and are publicly discussed?
I'm fairly certain that's not how the world or the law works, anywhere.
If there is reasonable suspicion that you are knowledgeable and profiting off of money obtained through illegal means, you can be detained for it, at least in the US.
If you're some non-important low-level office worker in a company where the CEO is implicated in money laundering, you're probably safe.
The "important guys" are safe too. In the US anything can happen, the big guys there don't have to abide by laws. Just look at what the NSA is doing, bin laden assassination without trial, guantanamo bay, Iran arms sale scandal, CIA cocaine trafficking, mortgage fraud, and the list goes on. In the US, laws are not means to an end, they are only applied selectively.
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Really? In what country? Because AFAIK, knowingly, or sometimes even unknowingly, handling or receiving etc the proceeds of a crime is a crime itself. If they know or suspect money they are receiving is from fraud, then they are potentially able to be charged with receiving proceeds of a crime, that's the law in the US, UK and Australia, for example, and probably many other countries as well.
That's really not how it works... it's easy to say something like that and you might even make a case for it in strictly semantic/literal terms. But judges oftentimes recognize the in-feasibility of being so arrest/punishment happy, especially if it's unknowingly.
Think about it this way, just how many random butlers/restaurants/waiters were tipped by Bernie Madoff and just how many establishments are visited on a daily basis by criminals?
Past money, no, current or future money, if they are still even getting paid, then yes. They wouldn't necessarily be considered guilty for past money received, but anything from when there was a high level of suspicion they could be found guilty. Also the original post said police can go after them because they "now know". Which is true, which is what I was agreeing with under the assumption they were still getting money, although really they probably aren't, so they won't be guilty if they haven't received anything.
If they do receive money now and then cash it out ASAP, then they would almost certainly be found guilty, for example. They are at a point where the players/manager can somewhat reasonably assume the money has a high probability of being dodgy, and therefore they could be found guilty.
I don't think you get what I'm saying. I'm not talking about whether or not they'll actually be found guilty.
I'm talking about whether or not they're guilty. No one wants to make a decision on these people who were not directly related to a crime necessarily because that's a lot of people to send to jail. Justice may be blind, but the thing idea of discretion which is to apply the laws selectively if a judge feels like something just is not feasible.
I guess you can say the police "can" go after them, but they won't because it just spreads too wide and too many good people will go down. That's where discretion comes in.
EPT
