Seems Lars Windhorst is involved, and it doesn't get prettier.
REALLY interesting article.
[Lars Windhorst]'s been managing Sapinda International, a company owned by Robert Hersov. As well as Vatas Holding, owned by Hersov, too. Vatas Holding owned over 8% of Balda AG shares at one point, Balda is a manufacturer of plastic materials and electronic parts. In 2008, Vatas was sentenced to pay EUR29m to Audley Capital, a British hegde fund. In 2009, German Bank NORD/LB sued Vatas for EUR150m, after they were supposedly ordered by Vatas to buy 13 million shares of Balda. Vatas filed for insolvency after this.
[...]
Note that Hersov originates from the owners family of Anglovaal Mining, a South African mining company related to illegal weapon smuggling and bribaries of BAE Systems, a british weapons contractor.
Now that is some really shady stuff right there.
We shouldn't read too much into that. Six degrees of separation and all that. You can easily connect any noteworthy businessman with any other noteworthy (and shady) businessman like that with just a few steps. I think there even used to be a website that did that for you.
Still, great OP! I was having similar thoughts about FXO back then, too.
Agreed. Shadow_Broker (the user on reddit) said Hersov and Lars both showed up at the summer finals tournament of LoL during the prize ceremony, that and the SYSK LTD link as owners of the name Asubu is the only connection. Still trying to find images/video of the award ceremony where both can be seen, or at least Lars Windhorst.
Well here's a highlight video from The Champions 2012 Summer Final. Lars Windhorst and Robert Hersov can be seen from 2:02 to 2:25. They are most definitely related to the company. In what way? Who knows? Only Azubu. XD
Funny side note: During the award ceremony stream chat was going crazy with "who is this guy in the suit" and "guy looks so shady" Not kidding....
Knew this was probably bad news ever since I figured out who these guys were. Shady people staying shady seemed more likely than shady people invest in "lucrative e-sports market".
Feels like that cliche "where there's smoke there's fire" thing.
Props to the original OP who even made this thread to begin with. I never really opened the thread, I always saw it in the thread lists, but sorta just scrolled past, thinking it was some fluff piece written by a fan of Azubu or something, describing the team and the players. Just fully read it and found it extremely interesting.g
Seems Lars Windhorst is involved, and it doesn't get prettier.
REALLY interesting article.
[Lars Windhorst]'s been managing Sapinda International, a company owned by Robert Hersov. As well as Vatas Holding, owned by Hersov, too. Vatas Holding owned over 8% of Balda AG shares at one point, Balda is a manufacturer of plastic materials and electronic parts. In 2008, Vatas was sentenced to pay EUR29m to Audley Capital, a British hegde fund. In 2009, German Bank NORD/LB sued Vatas for EUR150m, after they were supposedly ordered by Vatas to buy 13 million shares of Balda. Vatas filed for insolvency after this.
[...]
Note that Hersov originates from the owners family of Anglovaal Mining, a South African mining company related to illegal weapon smuggling and bribaries of BAE Systems, a british weapons contractor.
Now that is some really shady stuff right there.
We shouldn't read too much into that. Six degrees of separation and all that. You can easily connect any noteworthy businessman with any other noteworthy (and shady) businessman like that with just a few steps. I think there even used to be a website that did that for you.
Still, great OP! I was having similar thoughts about FXO back then, too.
Agreed. Shadow_Broker (the user on reddit) said Hersov and Lars both showed up at the summer finals tournament of LoL during the prize ceremony, that and the SYSK LTD link as owners of the name Asubu is the only connection. Still trying to find images/video of the award ceremony where both can be seen, or at least Lars Windhorst.
Well here's a highlight video from The Champions 2012 Summer Final. Lars Windhorst and Robert Hersov can be seen from 2:02 to 2:25. They are most definitely related to the company. In what way? Who knows? Only Azubu. XD
Funny side note: During the award ceremony stream chat was going crazy with "who is this guy in the suit" and "guy looks so shady" Not kidding....
Knew this was probably bad news ever since I figured out who these guys were. Shady people staying shady seemed more likely than shady people invest in "lucrative e-sports market".
Feels like that cliche "where there's smoke there's fire" thing.
Yeah I watched these LoL finals of Azubu Champions Summer live and the moment I saw these 2 white guys in suits I instantly thought how shady they looked. Like, I was absolutely certain about it. Its actually strange how easy these types are to indentify. :D Did some further research back then about Azubu and from what I could find (or rather, from how much I could not find) I was sure this was about investment fraud or something similar.
Btw, here is a Spiegel article in German about Windhorst. Pretty intersting (fraud) career. He was a big shot once with very good connections to German politics.
The PDF also has photos of Windhorst and Hersov, the 2 guys at the LoL awards ceremony.
I have a feeling Riot noticed how shady Azubu was and pushed them out of LoL in Korea. Which might be the reason why their sponsorship of 2 very succesful LoL teams and the league suddenly stopped.
Seems Lars Windhorst is involved, and it doesn't get prettier.
REALLY interesting article.
[Lars Windhorst]'s been managing Sapinda International, a company owned by Robert Hersov. As well as Vatas Holding, owned by Hersov, too. Vatas Holding owned over 8% of Balda AG shares at one point, Balda is a manufacturer of plastic materials and electronic parts. In 2008, Vatas was sentenced to pay EUR29m to Audley Capital, a British hegde fund. In 2009, German Bank NORD/LB sued Vatas for EUR150m, after they were supposedly ordered by Vatas to buy 13 million shares of Balda. Vatas filed for insolvency after this.
[...]
Note that Hersov originates from the owners family of Anglovaal Mining, a South African mining company related to illegal weapon smuggling and bribaries of BAE Systems, a british weapons contractor.
Now that is some really shady stuff right there.
We shouldn't read too much into that. Six degrees of separation and all that. You can easily connect any noteworthy businessman with any other noteworthy (and shady) businessman like that with just a few steps. I think there even used to be a website that did that for you.
Still, great OP! I was having similar thoughts about FXO back then, too.
Agreed. Shadow_Broker (the user on reddit) said Hersov and Lars both showed up at the summer finals tournament of LoL during the prize ceremony, that and the SYSK LTD link as owners of the name Asubu is the only connection. Still trying to find images/video of the award ceremony where both can be seen, or at least Lars Windhorst.
Well here's a highlight video from The Champions 2012 Summer Final. Lars Windhorst and Robert Hersov can be seen from 2:02 to 2:25. They are most definitely related to the company. In what way? Who knows? Only Azubu. XD
Funny side note: During the award ceremony stream chat was going crazy with "who is this guy in the suit" and "guy looks so shady" Not kidding....
Knew this was probably bad news ever since I figured out who these guys were. Shady people staying shady seemed more likely than shady people invest in "lucrative e-sports market".
Feels like that cliche "where there's smoke there's fire" thing.
Yeah I watched these LoL finals of Azubu Champions Summer live and the moment I saw these 2 white guys in suits I instantly thought how shady they looked. Like, I was absolutely certain about it. Its actually strange how easy these types are to indentify. :D Did some further research back then about Azubu and from what I could find (or rather, from how much I could not find) I was sure this was about investment fraud or something similar.
Btw, here is a Spiegel article in German about Windhorst. Pretty intersting (fraud) career. He was a big shot once with very good connections to German politics.
The PDF also has photos of Windhorst and Hersov, the 2 guys at the LoL awards ceremony.
I have a feeling Riot noticed how shady Azubu was and pushed them out of LoL in Korea. Which might be the reason why their sponsorship of 2 very succesful LoL teams and the league suddenly stopped.
Maybe but it also be that CJ just out bid them. Afaik CLG was still partnered with Azubu up until now? Like streaming on Azubu.tv and such.
This was apparently scrapped because the Koreans, i.e. the staff, especially the bosses couldn't understand the articles. As I said in a previous post, there were some Americans there initially to help out with the English, direct the content, but they either quit or were fired.
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Depends on the laws of the locality in play, as well as whether civil, criminal, or tax related.
As an example, the IRS can nail anyone remotely connected to a company. (Oh, you were just a secretary? Sorry, you're the only person we can find. You're liable.) Civil tort may allow this as well. Not sure about criminal law. Keep in mind, I'm not a lawyer. And this is only my limited understanding of US law. It may be wrong.
But yes, it's possible to be just an employee (or contractor) and get screwed because your bosses are asshats.
(Also, in the US, with regards to criminal law, I forgot about RICO - it allows prosecution of anyone involved if it's a "criminal enterprise".)
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Insung Silverio Park (one of the guy in OP's post), known as co-founder of AZUBU (another co-founder's name is unknown, but we can now guess it could be Kim seok ki), posted this on his blog: http://insung.de/
"I resigned from director position of AZUBU headquarter on April 2013. Therefore, direct all AZUBU related questions to AZUBU homepage. Thanks"
On June 13 2013 03:22 SilverStar wrote: I wonder how much Riot knew of Azubus business when they got involved with them in Korea.
What leads you to believe that Riot in particular might know something all other parties did not. After all Riot is a big company, with many loose mouths.
A more interesting connection would be what did OGN know about Azubu before letting them sponsor their tournament. I myself wonder if OGN could be held liable for anything through a financial connection of the prize money that originated from Azubu.
On June 13 2013 03:22 SilverStar wrote: I wonder how much Riot knew of Azubus business when they got involved with them in Korea.
What leads you to believe that Riot in particular might know something all other parties did not. After all Riot is a big company, with many loose mouths.
A more interesting connection would be what did OGN know about Azubu before letting them sponsor their tournament. I myself wonder if OGN could be held liable for anything through a financial connection of the prize money that originated from Azubu.
Ah someone from the lol sub-section. I was confused at first why you interpreted my question in such negative manner against riot, lol.
OGN was responsible for broadcasting the tournament. The rest was run by riot.
On June 13 2013 03:22 SilverStar wrote: I wonder how much Riot knew of Azubus business when they got involved with them in Korea.
What leads you to believe that Riot in particular might know something all other parties did not. After all Riot is a big company, with many loose mouths.
A more interesting connection would be what did OGN know about Azubu before letting them sponsor their tournament. I myself wonder if OGN could be held liable for anything through a financial connection of the prize money that originated from Azubu.
Ah someone from the lol sub-section. I was confused at first why you interpreted my question in such negative manner against riot, lol.
OGN was responsible for broadcasting the tournament. The rest was run by riot.
Thanks for recognizing me. Oops I mean calling me out on being a poster in the LoL subforum. lol?
Ya I interpreted your question in a negative manner because it was written in such a way that with your "information" you would single out Riot of all the involved parties. Seems negative to me.
http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Azubu_The_Champions_Spring_2012 OGN ran the entire tournament and they still run every tournament by themselves. Riot sanctions them to run the tournaments on their own. Direct your attention to the sponsor please.
Next time do your research before making aggressive claims bud.
On June 13 2013 03:22 SilverStar wrote: I wonder how much Riot knew of Azubus business when they got involved with them in Korea.
What leads you to believe that Riot in particular might know something all other parties did not. After all Riot is a big company, with many loose mouths.
A more interesting connection would be what did OGN know about Azubu before letting them sponsor their tournament. I myself wonder if OGN could be held liable for anything through a financial connection of the prize money that originated from Azubu.
They might have connection, tho it would mean devastation to e-sports scene in Korea. I don't wanna believe it either.
You guys know why all this new information regarding Kim and his paper company was brought up to the surface all of sudden?
There are two big things are going on in Korea right now.
1. Korean government is actively investigating CJ group for tax evasion through paper companies established abroad. They already have search warrant and is about to arrest big names. 2. On the other hand, those called investigative journalists independently found names and founders of paper companies founded in British Virgin Island for tax evasion purposes. One of released name was Kim Seok Ki.
First of all, CJ = OGN. They are the same company.
If korean government finds connection between Kim's paper companies and CJ's money, then it's BOOM.
and dont forget Kim was ex-husband of CJ's vice president...
On June 12 2013 06:55 Waxangel wrote: All azubu players drop from DH: Summer?????
Looks like Azubu is done for... Their players will be screwed as well.
Does anyone here know South Korean law? Would the Azubu players be charged for a criminal offense? Here in Canada, they can be. Taken from a Canadian lawyer's website:
If you are unaware that an item is stolen, purchasing or possessing the item is not illegal. Although you may have to return it to the true owner, you are not guilty of possessing stolen property. This does not mean that you can just ignore suspicious situations or state that you do not want to know where the item came from. The Crown can make a case that based on the circumstances, you must have known that the property was stolen. Proving that you had no knowledgeof the history of the property is a complicated matter and you should speak with a lawyer for advice on how to proceed with this defence.
Stolen property includes not only actual stolen items, but alsoindirect benefits gained from stolen items. For example, accepting money, knowing that it came from the sale of a stolen vehicle would qualify as possession of stolen property even though the money itself was note stolen.Another example of an indirect benefit of stolen property is having items that you know were purchased with a stolen or fraudulently obtained credit card.
I don't see how what you quoted could be used against Azubu players. Unless they were paid in 1 dollar bills with blood on them, then I doubt there was enough indication that it was so blatant that "you must have known that the property was stolen". I'm sure plenty of players have little idea exactly how money are generated by their teams except that they know sponsors somehow help, but surely Azubu could have had a silent sponsor.
This turn of events is sad, but not really surprising. It was always looking with high probability to be either 1) a rich person with no business sense, or 2) something very sketchy. I hope the players will manage, though I'm afraid the majority will retire with the current saturation of talent in Korea.
Well look at it this way. Everyone knows that Azubu is involved with money laundering. Unless the players, coaches, etc. are all dense, then they know as well. The police can go after them because the players now know they are getting paid and spending illegal funds.
That's not at all how it works, from a legal perspective.
Really? In what country? Because AFAIK, knowingly, or sometimes even unknowingly, handling or receiving etc the proceeds of a crime is a crime itself. If they know or suspect money they are receiving is from fraud, then they are potentially able to be charged with receiving proceeds of a crime, that's the law in the US, UK and Australia, for example, and probably many other countries as well.
EPT
