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On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football.
where are the english teams on the champions league ? lol..
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On April 03 2013 21:33 mikkmagro wrote:
My question is, does that $1.6million include the prizepurse for GSL/OGN, or is it just for the EU/NA Qualifiers, the Seasonal Finals and the Grand Finals at Blizzcon? Eager to hear more details!
Well im wondering about this as well but i imagine that GSL/OGN prizemoney is not included in the prizepurse, otherwise it would be very easy choice for a lot of Korean players to leave Korea.
On the other hand, 1.6 mil without GSL/OGN prizemoney is a shit load of money and might be to good to be true.
Blizzard made such a big thing out of this announcement but its weird that so many details are unknown.
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On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football.
I'd argue your second statement is ridiculous bs.
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On April 03 2013 22:18 GizmoPT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football. where are the english teams on the champions league ? lol..
Check what country he is from. Of course he would think the Premier League is the only one that matters. :p
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On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football.
No you can't.
Well this seems like good news, i am more interested about the coverage of this anyways, since that's what i will be watching.
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On April 03 2013 22:21 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:18 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football. where are the english teams on the champions league ? lol.. Check what country he is from. Of course he would think the Premier League is the only one that matters. :p
anyway thats not what we are discussing here.. we already had a place where the best could compete thats gsl.. and we wil lstill have it.. but for the scene to grow we need a tournament that brings all the best guys in each region to compete with the best cause that will motivate them.. and thats when you see great tournaments like wcs europe
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On April 03 2013 17:55 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 17:34 igay wrote:On April 03 2013 17:15 Eury wrote:
There were way too many GSLs anyway. Being a GSL champion didn't mean as much as it should had. Just look at Seed. Are you kidding me seed is so good, and I guess I was sorta right XD You missed my point. Winning a GSL should be a huge deal but many don't even remember Seed winning it because one GSL isn't worth much when you have 10 a year. The most prestigious sporting events in the world are the olympics and the world cup in soccer largely because they happen rarely. I think 2 GSL and 2 OSL a year is pretty much perfect for the scene.
Except for there were only 5 last year.. versus 8 MLGs last year.......yeah okay..and yet MLG had the highest viewer numbers ever.
so you are saying 4 tournaments is way better than 5? Come on....you can't be serious..
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football.
You'd argue, but you would seem like a moron, because Champions League is easily better. It's a no brainer..
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On April 03 2013 20:16 disciple wrote:
Interesting. I like the idea of unified ranking, many individual sports are based on a solid system, tennis comes to mind. But leaving out team leagues feels questionable, maybe its a personal preference but I believe team leagues in SC make the best storylines and by emphasizing on the individual competitions, the influence of the teams and their personality will get phased out a bit.
Yes, at first, I was interested as well. The more I think about it, however, the more nervous I am about it all. A main reason that proleague worked was because it was the most prestigious tournament in the world. Not even OSL mattered as much. Take that away and all you have is a tournament where you have to rely on others to win. And, if I'm TBLS, no thanks.
Take away proleague and B-teamers no longer matter. Take away B-teamers and you've got very few gamers just a step away from becoming A-class. Take away the proleague structure and we lose the teamhouses, the coaches, possibly the big (consistent) sponsors, which all lead to decreased motivation/accountability without a team that is directly relying on you.
I'm still hoping for the best, but I feel proleague must be catered to, it's just too important. I hope its place is much more firm than I fear it is, otherwise this could be a step in losing it altogether.
So, here's to hoping that proleague stays the most prestigious.
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On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that.
They may very well do that. But since they'd be leaving prestige behind, we'll have more fair NA vs KR matches.
IdrA, Huk, Scarlett, Minigun, and NonY(I can dream) vs. CoCa, Golden, Moonan, b4 and hwangsin sounds a lot more compelling than vs. MVP, Life, MC, and DRG...
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On April 03 2013 22:24 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 17:55 Eury wrote:On April 03 2013 17:34 igay wrote:On April 03 2013 17:15 Eury wrote:
There were way too many GSLs anyway. Being a GSL champion didn't mean as much as it should had. Just look at Seed. Are you kidding me seed is so good, and I guess I was sorta right XD You missed my point. Winning a GSL should be a huge deal but many don't even remember Seed winning it because one GSL isn't worth much when you have 10 a year. The most prestigious sporting events in the world are the olympics and the world cup in soccer largely because they happen rarely. I think 2 GSL and 2 OSL a year is pretty much perfect for the scene. Except for there were only 5 last year.. versus 8 MLGs last year.......yeah okay..and yet MLG had the highest viewer numbers ever. so you are saying 4 tournaments is way better than 5? Come on....you can't be serious..
Depends on the quality of tournament! 4 great is better than 5 good.
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On April 03 2013 22:23 GizmoPT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:21 Grumbels wrote:On April 03 2013 22:18 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football. where are the english teams on the champions league ? lol.. Check what country he is from. Of course he would think the Premier League is the only one that matters. :p anyway thats not what we are discussing here.. we already had a place where the best could compete thats gsl.. and we wil lstill have it.. but for the scene to grow we need a tournament that brings all the best guys in each region to compete with the best cause that will motivate them.. and thats when you see great tournaments like wcs europe
One problem is that the different regions are more uneven in sc2 than in football. Spain, England, Italy all have teams that have a really good chance at winning the Champions League, but Korea is way superior to Europe and NA.
On April 03 2013 22:28 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They may very well do that. But since they'd be leaving prestige behind, we'll have more fair NA vs KR matches. IdrA, Huk, Scarlett, Minigun, and NonY(I can dream) vs. CoCa, Golden, Moonan, b4 and hwangsin sounds a lot more compelling than vs. MVP, Life, MC, and DRG...
Maybe esf & kespa will prevent their players from signing up to non-korean events, leaving it to the koreans on western teams.
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Yes, 4 tournaments are better than five. 3-4 is the ideal number, else victories are meaningless.
For example, MVP is the "king of wings", but his success rate at actually winning the tournament is 20% across all GSL seasons. Still quite a feat, but statistically not so impressive.
Compare that to the kings of BW, who won at least 50% (iirc) of the starleagues they played in for a significant period, at least a year or more.
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As someone who has always favored the Koreans and just watching the best competition, I have to say I am pretty positive overall about the announcement. I think the Season finals being welfared out, and the individual NA EU leagues is great. People that want to complain about no foreigners to watch have their league to watch and stop crying. Blizzard has taken an active role in promoting NA/EU esports, and thats a good thing. The world finals is still going to be 12-16 Koreans, and thats a good thing.
I do have a few concerns though. I am a GSL ticket holder, and am very disappointed that my ticket is now probably halved in value, because there will be less GSL seasons. On the other hand, GSL casters casting OSL pinch me! If only they could do that for Proleague.... The other concern is stemming from the MC reaction and EG Korea reactions. I do feel that it is somewhat unfair that MLG and IEM etc don't have to link their events to WCS, allowing the Koreans to still travel (which is good), but in Korea, GSL/OSL is tied to WCS completely. I understand logistically this makes sense, but the Koreans are definitely right that it basically is promoting them to go to the other regions to play, especially given the first season is basically already decided, which is not very fair at all. I guess we can just hope for the best with that.
In general, I think for Korea this changes very little unless there is a lot of Koreans that drop GSL/OSL to go play NA/EU. If not, I'm still going to value GSL/OSL/GSTL/Proleague as the most prestigious/entertaining leagues in the world, with WCS as a side thing like every other year so far. This really has no downsides for foreign scene. Even if Koreans come occupy their leagues, or come to live in those regions, that basically elevates the training and infrastructure in NA/EU that is so desperately needed. If that doesn't happen, NA/EU have their own foreigner focused leagues that those casual viewers and people who care about personality/fluff can watch and enjoy.
P.S. Polt must be the happiest guy in the world right now lol!
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On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football.
LOL, stop embarrassing my country with your ignorance. The Champions League is the most prestigious by fucking miles.
The Premier League isn't even the top league in Europe right now.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On April 03 2013 22:33 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 22:17 Qikz wrote:On April 03 2013 22:14 Butterednuts wrote:
So why don't the lower half of the good Koreans just play in the NA bracket so they're ensured to get further in the tournament and make more money. I don't understand why they wouldn't do that. They have to pay for all their own travel, so it'll cost them lots. On April 03 2013 22:17 GizmoPT wrote:On April 03 2013 22:13 schwarzer wrote:
I don't like the announcement.
Top tournaments must consist in the best players fighting each other. I understand their need to boost the non-korean scene, but making artificial barriers to do so seems very dangerous to me.
I'm not a korean elitist, but right now, it's undeniable that koreans are clearly above the foreigners skill level. Unless Blizzard take that in account and give the Korea seasonal proper WCS points, the scene could be seriously damaged. I'm seeing two possible outcomes:
1. WCS America and WCS Europe flooded and dominated by koreans, something that will defeat the entire purpose of the new format, harming both foreigner and korean scene.
2. Almost every player playing for their region, which will harm the korean scene. Maybe not for players like Flash or Life, but code A/B players could have it really hard with that changes, because those players will have to play insanely good to keep up with foreign players with similar or less skill.
Anyways, I'll wait Blizzard to reveal more details, but I don't like at all how forced it sounds, and the consequences it could bring. you should agree Champions League is the best football tournament right ? and with the most prestige right ? but does it have only the best of the best ? no it has the best of each country.. thats what makes it interesting.. in the end of it you will still have the top teams in europe competing.. but you give chance for them all to beat the best I'd argue that the Premier League is the most prestigious in Football. LOL, stop embarrassing my country with your ignorance. The Champions League is the most prestigious by fucking miles. The Premier League isn't even the top league in Europe right now.
My apologies. I've not followed football in over ten years :p
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On April 03 2013 22:16 tozi wrote:
before I comment I what I think about this announcement, I want to clarify.
What are the names of each tournament, everyone is throwing around different names for the same thing
is it GSL Korea - MLG NA - ESL EU
or
WCS europe, korea, NA
or
GSL Korea - GSL NA - GSL EU
and EACH region will have a Code S, and Challenger's Bracket (Code A-B, Up and Down)?
WCS Europe will be hosted by Turtle Entertainment (known for IEM, ESL, etc.).
WCS America will be hosted by Major League Gaming (not to be confused with the single MLG events).
WCS Korea is the GSL/OSL combined hosted by GomTV and OnGameNet taking seasonal turns.
So all the single tournaments produced by the above Western companies will still be around and classified non-WCS (possibly giving out WCS points). The special snowflake is Korea where WCS rules now mandate that no foreigner can take part in GSL/OSL unless they commit to the WCS KR region for an entire year (and therefore stay in Korea). The team leagues, GSTL and Proleague, remain untouched and will still be around. DreamHack and NASL will be independent non-WCS tournaments (also likely giving out WCS points).
Interesting will be how the seasonal switch between GSL and OSL will work. Since it was stressed that all WCS tournaments adopt the GSL model (Code S = Premier League, Code A = Challenger League, Code B = Qualifier League) and taking into account that the remaining top 4 players from the last OSL ( Rain,  Last) were seeded into Code S, I assume that it will basically be the same tournament with the same players. That means that the top 8 of this upcoming GSL Code S season will be playing in OSL the following season. Same with those that qualify for Code S through Code A or the Up and Downs.
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someone tell me
WHERE THE HELL is dreamhack in all of this?
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On April 03 2013 22:36 DOUDOU wrote:
someone tell me
WHERE THE HELL is dreamhack in all of this?
Independent tournament where players from all regions can partake and most likely also get some WCS points in the process.
I think people are downplaying the importance of events that got "left out", they will still be as good as ever and best of all there will be no artificial restrictions to their player pools.
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On April 03 2013 22:36 DOUDOU wrote:
someone tell me
WHERE THE HELL is dreamhack in all of this?
right where it should be.. same place
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EPT
