EPTWCS 2013 Announced - April 3rd - Page 81
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Fearest
854 Posts
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rice_devOurer
United States773 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:24 Clefairy wrote: @sk__mc No matter how I look at it, WCS's conditions are disadvantageous for Korean players. Players currently in the qualifiers can't even participate in the upcoming WCS Korea. Also the players competing in the GSL in the hardest competition will qualify as Korean representatives. However if you don't block Korean players from going to other countries, practicing in Korea and playing in Korean tournaments becomes an idiotic thing to do. Everyone will prefer advancing easily in EU or NA instead of Korea where there are many strong Koreans, so I don't understand Blizzard's tournament idea at all. Either make it so only that country's players can play or don't make the GSL into a WCS tournament and instead make a separate qualifier. This just makes the Korean players that are currently in the qualifiers not want to participate. Even as a Code S player I'm having a lot of thoughts, but just imagine how it would be for a player in Code A or the qualifiers. The conclusion is I hate this format. LG IM alone has MVP, First, Byul, Ragnarok and Seed in the qualifiers along with Nestea and Yonghwa in Code A. All these players have automatically been taken out of the running for the first season of WCS Korea. Only the 32 players determined by their WoL results are Korean representatives. If I compared it simply to football, there's the Premier League, Chinese League and J-League. They're holding the Champions League and they want to give the top 5 teams in these 3 leagues a seed. However the clubs can pick what league they want to play in, and the second tier/third tier Premier League teams can't even participate in the Champions League while the Chinese and J-League compete with all clubs together. Then what would the strong teams such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool e.t.c. in the Premier League think? And what would the lower tier Premier league teams think? Even second tier Premier teams could be top placers in a Chinese or Japanese league but why would they bother playing in the Premier League minor leagues when they can't get into the Champions League? It would be easier to accept if they just split it up like the last WCS where Europe only has European players, America only has American players, Korea only has Korean players. Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final? @LiquidTaeJa I should go to America or Europe! @EGJYP Should I just go to America~~~~ @LGIMSeed @sk__mc I was forced into despair just by being in the qualifiers Well, i think this is bad for koreans because if they move somewhere, they might have to postpone their educations. EDIT- but, on the other hand, it will be interesting to meet code S koreans :O | ||
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Charlie.Sheen
662 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:24 Clefairy wrote: @sk__mc No matter how I look at it, WCS's conditions are disadvantageous for Korean players. Players currently in the qualifiers can't even participate in the upcoming WCS Korea. Also the players competing in the GSL in the hardest competition will qualify as Korean representatives. However if you don't block Korean players from going to other countries, practicing in Korea and playing in Korean tournaments becomes an idiotic thing to do. Everyone will prefer advancing easily in EU or NA instead of Korea where there are many strong Koreans, so I don't understand Blizzard's tournament idea at all. Either make it so only that country's players can play or don't make the GSL into a WCS tournament and instead make a separate qualifier. This just makes the Korean players that are currently in the qualifiers not want to participate. Even as a Code S player I'm having a lot of thoughts, but just imagine how it would be for a player in Code A or the qualifiers. The conclusion is I hate this format. LG IM alone has MVP, First, Byul, Ragnarok and Seed in the qualifiers along with Nestea and Yonghwa in Code A. All these players have automatically been taken out of the running for the first season of WCS Korea. Only the 32 players determined by their WoL results are Korean representatives. If I compared it simply to football, there's the Premier League, Chinese League and J-League. They're holding the Champions League and they want to give the top 5 teams in these 3 leagues a seed. However the clubs can pick what league they want to play in, and the second tier/third tier Premier League teams can't even participate in the Champions League while the Chinese and J-League compete with all clubs together. Then what would the strong teams such as Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool e.t.c. in the Premier League think? And what would the lower tier Premier league teams think? Even second tier Premier teams could be top placers in a Chinese or Japanese league but why would they bother playing in the Premier League minor leagues when they can't get into the Champions League? It would be easier to accept if they just split it up like the last WCS where Europe only has European players, America only has American players, Korea only has Korean players. Current esports has the problem of Korean players owning every tournament and it is just natural that someone would want a player from their country to do well. If WCS Europe and WCS America is also dominated by Koreans, what American or European person would want to watch the WCS Final? @LiquidTaeJa I should go to America or Europe! @EGJYP Should I just go to America~~~~ @LGIMSeed @sk__mc I was forced into despair just by being in the qualifiers MC is assuming everyone has the money to move to west like he does. | ||
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therabit
795 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
also Stephano's decision to forfeit GSL, leave Korea and go back to France makes a lot of sense now. looks like EG will have players in every region, with their Koreans and proleague bros trying to get into WCS Korea, Idra and Demuslim in NA and Stephano and perhaps Thorzain in EU. | ||
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Mirror0423
United States175 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:45 Charlie.Sheen wrote: MC is assuming everyone has the money to move to west like he does. Nah, this is MC's response to someone else's tweet 제가 쓴글을 잘 이해 못하신거같은데.. 음.. 제 말은 나라별로 예선을 따로 정해놓고 왜 한국선수가 유럽이나 미국의 WCS 예선을 참가 할수 있냐는겁니다. 이렇게 되버리면 예를들어 해외팀소속인 저나 송현덕 윤영서 선수등 다른선수들이 유럽이나 미국을 선택하거나 또는 현재 코드A나 예선에 있는 선수들이 해외를 선택할시 WCS는 한국인 판이 될수도있는데 예선은 나라별로 정해놓고 선수는 아무곳이나 나갈수있다는게 불만이라는거죠 왜냐하면 비행기 티켓값이 없는선수들은 그 선택조차 할수없는거니까요 "I don't think you quite understood what i said. Hmm, what i'm saying is why have the regional qualifiers, but then allowe Koreans to compete in european, or NA WCS qualifiers. If you do it like this, then for example, for someone like me, or Hero, or others will pick NA or EU, or current Korean players in code A qualifiers could choose not KR and WCS could just be a Korean fest. I'm unhappy that they have the qualifiers based on regions, but then let the players choose, because for players who can't afford the tickets they don't actually really have a choice." | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
Firstly, if lots of koreans move to the other regions... then they'll still end up facing Koreans, because the others got the same idea. So although it's making it a bit easier for themselves, it's not exactly a free-win, especially because you are subjecting yourself to lag conditions as well. If Blizzard provides an incentive to play in your home region, which I really god damn hope they do (like 1.2x points or something) then Korean dilution may be further discouraged. Secondly... it's an issue because the koreans who are currently Code A/B are out of the running for the first title? ... How is that any different to Blizzard Cup and existing GSL ranking? At the beginning of every GSL year before now, the people in Code A and B get the short end of the stick by having less points available and no chance of getting the first win. Nothing has changed. Additionally, do they actually deserve the opportunity? If they're in Code B/A, they're there for a reason, and it's because they weren't good enough to get into Code S. With that in mind, the fact that there is 32 privileged players who get the opportunity at the first WCS finals is true of every single region. If Blizzard/GOM had 'wiped clean' the existing GSL ladder and re-seeded everyone in exactly the same fashion as NA and EU is being seeded then you end up exactly where you started, with 32 of much-the-same-if-not-exactly-the-same-because-they-deserve-to-be-there people in Code S. In regards to the seeding, Korea has no disadvantage at all. That's completely false. In fact, if anything, they have an advantage. 32 players from one country is pretty hefty when Europe gets 32 from their entire continent... This is a massive improvement over their representation in last year's WCS Korea. But still that's just playing devil's advocate. I see what MC's saying and pretty well agree that the system is pretty terribly flawed. However all of this is fixable if they think of a really creative and smart way to award points, that doesn't heavily favor Code S absolutely. Sure, Code B people are screwed out of this year, but oh well. There is more to life and SC2 than that one final at the end of the year - which people tend to weight as weaker than the regular seasons anyway (due to its shorter time frame and smaller size) >_> | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10644 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:13 EpiK wrote: what could possibly be bigger than this that's not negative? lol This isn't negative? lol. And in the end.. It's just another tournament.... Nothing THAT groundbreaking at all. | ||
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cookiz
Burma181 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:52 MCXD wrote: I actually agree with MC, but I can see a few counterarguments. Firstly, if lots of koreans move to the other regions... then they'll still end up facing Koreans, because the others got the same idea. So although it's making it a bit easier for themselves, it's not exactly a free-win, especially because you are subjecting yourself to lag conditions as well. If Blizzard provides an incentive to play in your home region, which I really god damn hope they do (like 1.2x points or something) then Korean dilution may be further discouraged. Secondly... it's an issue because the koreans who are currently Code A/B are out of the running for the first title? ... How is that any different to Blizzard Cup and existing GSL ranking? At the beginning of every GSL year before now, the people in Code A and B get the short end of the stick by having less points available and no chance of getting the first win. Nothing has changed. Additionally, do they actually deserve the opportunity? If they're in Code B/A, they're there for a reason, and it's because they weren't good enough to get into Code S. With that in mind, the fact that there is 32 privileged players who get the opportunity at the first WCS finals is true of every single region. If Blizzard/GOM had 'wiped clean' the existing GSL ladder and re-seeded everyone in exactly the same fashion as NA and EU is being seeded then you end up exactly where you started, with 32 of much-the-same-if-not-exactly-the-same-because-they-deserve-to-be-there people in Code S. In regards to the seeding, Korea has no disadvantage at all. That's completely false. In fact, if anything, they have an advantage. 32 players from one country is pretty hefty when Europe gets 32 from their entire continent... This is a massive improvement over their representation in last year's WCS Korea. yeh i agree | ||
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TotoroHren
Croatia31 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:56 Velr wrote: This isn't negative? lol. And in the end.. It's just another tournament.... Nothing THAT groundbreaking at all. To say it's "just another tournament" is extreme ignorance. This is one of, if not the only, real steps towards a globalized league and a fully coordinated tournament system. That's a pretty big deal. | ||
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Mirror0423
United States175 Posts
송현덕 @Liquid_HerO 20m 떠날때가온건가 ??? "Has the time come for me to leave???" So, I'm wondering why they chose this model, instead of something like the World Cup (for soccer) model (probably cause dem 'mericans don't watch soccer). I mean, there's a giant skill gap in soccer, as there is in SC2 (but the other way around where europeans/south americans sorta kick ass). They region lock them by geography, but give different amount of tickets to the region based on the level of play. This seems like a easier route than this whole debacle. Also, looking at MC's tweet, and try to put yourself in a Code A player's shoes. You have litterally 0% chance of being in the season championships, but you're also already locked to your region. Or say you're an up and coming player. This season you didn't make it in to code A, but during the season in pro-league you realize you're winning a lot of games against high level players. Why in the world would you stay in Korea and have to wait AT LEAST 2 seasons (qualify for code A, and then qualify for code S) for the chance to be in the season championships. FOR A CHANCE, cause after 2 seasons you still have to win code S. Why not just declare to be in NA, and qualify? | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:38 Charlie.Sheen wrote: Right there with you, hated this even in 2010. In 2010 there was no Code. It was just a straight up 64 man tournament. | ||
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dtz
5834 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:45 Charlie.Sheen wrote: MC is assuming everyone has the money to move to west like he does. I think there will be plenty though. Other than the obvious ones who are already there Polt/Violet/Forgg. Then of course those on foreign teams like Taeja, Hero, JYP, alive, oz , MC. Then there are the 2 Root Koreans ( Sage and 1 more i can't remember). Axiom could have sent their whole team to NA/EU but it seems that they want to try KR for now ( probably because they already have a house there). Those are just some from foreign teams. Big teams like LG-IM probably also would be wise to split their eggs in many baskets to maximize their chances. Send those who are not in Code A/S to NA/EU. Much higher chance than trying to break top 16 in Korea. And then you have to remember that this new WCS will attract new teams and sponsors. Look at these 2 tweets. Some Korean players and teams have already approached Sundance on NA WCS and it is expected they will consider moving. If these players are new, teams like CLG will sign them and support them to play in NA because it is much easier to gain exposure. Although not everyone has the money to move to the west, i think many will. | ||
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Charlie.Sheen
662 Posts
On April 03 2013 16:01 WolfintheSheep wrote: To say it's "just another tournament" is extreme ignorance. This is one of, if not the only, real steps towards a globalized league and a fully coordinated tournament system. That's a pretty big deal. Symbolic globalization, no real meaning. If foreigners can't stand real chance against Korean, there will never be a real globalization. | ||
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CarlosOmse
Germany507 Posts
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On April 03 2013 14:52 vesicular wrote: I'd almost put money on Jaedong playing NA. Why? He lives in Korea. I think people should stop bitching about Koreans farming NA/EU. I'd rather watch good Koreans playing, than watching GoOdy get supply blocked every other minute like he did against Stephano in HSC VI. Foreigners are great to watch when they are good at the game - if i wanted to see noobs play i would watch my own replays. | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On April 03 2013 15:52 MCXD wrote: Secondly... it's an issue because the koreans who are currently Code A/B are out of the running for the first title? ... How is that any different to Blizzard Cup and existing GSL ranking? At the beginning of every GSL year before now, the people in Code A and B get the short end of the stick by having less points available and no chance of getting the first win. Nothing has changed. Additionally, do they actually deserve the opportunity? If they're in Code B/A, they're there for a reason, and it's because they weren't good enough to get into Code S. With that in mind, the fact that there is 32 privileged players who get the opportunity at the first WCS finals is true of every single region. If Blizzard/GOM had 'wiped clean' the existing GSL ladder and re-seeded everyone in exactly the same fashion as NA and EU is being seeded then you end up exactly where you started, with 32 of much-the-same-if-not-exactly-the-same-because-they-deserve-to-be-there people in Code S. In regards to the seeding, Korea has no disadvantage at all. That's completely false. Actually, your second point is wrong, because there are now less tournaments - 2 GSLs this year vs 5 last year, so it's even more important. if you are not in code S this season, you have 0 chance of going to WCS Finals. Last year, you actually had multiple seasons to earn points. Essentially, the points are weighted much more now. Not to mention the current code S is based on WoL, a different game. And the 3rd point about having a clean slate is completely false. A clean slate means a completely new qualifier for everyone who sign up. That's an actual clean slate..... Also, you are completely false - each code S player is stuck with 31 other code S players to earn the WCS Korea spot, region locked for the entire year. Other players, like MC mentioned, have the OPTION to go to NA or EU for a much easier road to WCS. Essentially, top level players are being penalized for no reason, while worse players are getting rewarded because of this broken system. IMHO, Blizz fucked up big time.. | ||
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Qaatar
1409 Posts
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