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On April 30 2013 18:09 blueslobster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 00:31 dreamseller wrote:
i had a good search through the thread and only saw artisan recommended by OP. they look pretty expensive here in australia, anyone got a good cheap recommendation for a low resistance pad/surface? Sorry, I can’t help you there. I’m only interested in the best solutions, so I don’t know much about second best solutions. ;P From a technical standpoint the Savu is superb. It is part of my mouse collection and I must say I really like the tracking fidelity. What I don’t like about, however, is that it is quite huge and quite heavy. The Savu is primarily a Palm Grip mouse. If you have huge hands you might be able to use it with a Fingertip Grip. I’m holding the mouse right now and it limits my vertical movements because of the way the side of the mouse is designed. Additionally: The Savu feels really sluggish when you’re coming from a light weight mouse. Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 01:02 Surili wrote:
I run at a res of 1920-1080, 6/11, 51% CPI 1600 since reading this article, and my mouse sensitivity feels really fast, but i don't know if that is just because i am not used to it.
You said in the article that the right sensitivity is the most important, but i am the kind of guy who will pick the best and "get used to it dammit" in the long term and not be sub optimal because it is better for me in the short term.
Is this okay? Why do you think that 1600 CPI (thanks for not writing DPI :D) is the best? The best settings, in my opinion, are below 1000 CPI. One of the reasons being, that at 800 CPI your Savu won’t produce Jitter when you use a Polling Rate of 1000 Hz. Also I think 1600 CPI is just too fast for SC 2, as you already felt yourself. Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 01:02 Surili wrote:
Also, i was watching nony's stream a few months ago and i noticed that he plays with a really really fast scroll speed in comparison to most people, where he just touches the edge of the screen a little and then jumps back to the middle. I started playing like this and it is really effective, so i recommend it to anyone unless there is a good reason why not. I too think that scroll speed should be set on its maximum value. It just saves time. It can be difficult to get used to it, though. So instead of jumping from 20 % directly to 100 %, I’d advise to make smaller adjustments. Maybe 30 % for a few days and then 40 % and so on … Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 01:20 Surili wrote:How should i test it [800 CPI]? Use it for a week or so? I would assume a fast sensitivity is good for sc2. I just don't know and want someone to tell me what is not sub optimal i guess  Definitely give 800 CPI a shot. And that shot should last a few weeks, at least. 800 CPI might feel slow when coming from 1600 CPI, but there are many players who go even lower with their CPI. 700 and 600 for example are not crazy low. CPI values between 300-500 are what I would regard as low.
Thanks for the advice, feeling good about this. So was it probably producing jitter when i had it at 1600 CPI?
I guess the reason i was worried so much is that the Savu is the first decent mouse i ever bought, i have been using really shitty £15 quid mice for gaming for the past decade almost, not considering that it might be seriously holding me back. I even played dota for 5 years at a decent level with a ball mouse.
As for how 800 CPI has been suiting me, i'll put it this way: I completely forgot i had changed it. It is just so much cleaner now, i have been really practicing fast clicking (one of my favourite games at the start is to as fast as possible click accurately on the extractors at opposite sides of my nexus without forming boxes at all, and this is going much better.
I don't think it is a problem of size for me at all either, because i have strong hands, from years and years of gaming, followed by being very proficient and prolific in massaging, doing lots of juggling/circus skills, and also rock climbing and bouldering.
In fact i'm pretty sure a light mouse would piss me off ^^
Basically, since switching to 800 CPI i think, but i'm not 100% that the game is slightly easier for me, clicking on individual units especially grouped fast moving pheonix, but i will post again after my exams and i've had more time to grind out games.
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Hmm have a different opinion on the CPI thing. I play with a razer abyssus 3500CPI, Windows6/11 and SC2 51%. And it's perfectly fine in each way: speed, precision and feeling. It's because you hold the mouse kinda tight in your hand and just have to move your hand just a little bit. Most of the time it's more of a small push you give the mouse. I feel it's more precise than having a lower sensivity because your wrist and heel of hand are fix and can easily control the mice. When you play with lower CPI you have to use your whole hand and even the arm to control. This is why i feel it's much more difficult to control the mice precisely. For example ingame, you have to use your whole arm to stop the mouse movement and quick reactions make it difficult to control because of the long movement you have to do with your hand/arm. So you have to put a lot more effort into precise selections. This is why i also feel that playing with low CPI isn't as fast as playing with high CPI.
At the end it's all about routine. Everyone can play any settings if he has the time to get used to.
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On April 25 2013 00:31 dreamseller wrote:
i had a good search through the thread and only saw artisan recommended by OP. they look pretty expensive here in australia, anyone got a good cheap recommendation for a low resistance pad/surface?
If price is your biggest concern, then the SS QcK should be sufficient. They're one of the most popular pads out there and are relatively cheap (you can find some under $10 USD), and definitely a step up from a free mouse pad. Just make sure you get the right size for your (smaller size pads of the same model are obviously cheaper). If you're looking to spend more than you can ask around for stuff like the Zowie- Q-TF, etc.
Note that the SS QcK is a cloth mouse pad. I'm not exactly sure on your budget so I can't really recommend much further.
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On April 30 2013 18:42 Surili wrote:
Thanks for the advice, feeling good about this. So was it probably producing jitter when i had it at 1600 CPI?
1600 CPI produces light amounts of Jitter. 800 CPI is definitely better. See the following picture, which shows a Savu on a Shiden:
![[image loading]](http://mousespeed.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Savu-Jitter-on-Shiden-800-1600-4000-CPI.png)
On April 30 2013 18:42 Surili wrote:
As for how 800 CPI has been suiting me, i'll put it this way: I completely forgot i had changed it. It is just so much cleaner now, i have been really practicing fast clicking (one of my favourite games at the start is to as fast as possible click accurately on the extractors at opposite sides of my nexus without forming boxes at all, and this is going much better.
…
Basically, since switching to 800 CPI i think, but i'm not 100% that the game is slightly easier for me, clicking on individual units especially grouped fast moving pheonix, but i will post again after my exams and i've had more time to grind out games.
Glad to hear that.
On April 30 2013 18:42 Surili wrote:
I don't think it is a problem of size for me at all either, because i have strong hands, from years and years of gaming, followed by being very proficient and prolific in massaging, doing lots of juggling/circus skills, and also rock climbing and bouldering.
I’m not sure if more strength is strictly better for doing fine precision movements.
On April 30 2013 20:02 Kazar wrote:
Hmm have a different opinion on the CPI thing. I play with a razer abyssus 3500CPI, Windows6/11 and SC2 51%. And it's perfectly fine in each way: speed, precision and feeling.
Try playing with 1600 CPI for a few weeks. I bet you will be faster and more precise afterwards. Try recording first person videos for both CPI values. Then compare.
On April 30 2013 20:02 Kazar wrote:
It's because you hold the mouse kinda tight in your hand and just have to move your hand just a little bit. Most of the time it's more of a small push you give the mouse. I feel it's more precise than having a lower sensivity because your wrist and heel of hand are fix and can easily control the mice.
When you play with lower CPI you have to use your whole hand and even the arm to control. This is why i feel it's much more difficult to control the mice precisely. For example ingame, you have to use your whole arm to stop the mouse movement and quick reactions make it difficult to control because of the long movement you have to do with your hand/arm. So you have to put a lot more effort into precise selections. This is why i also feel that playing with low CPI isn't as fast as playing with high CPI.
I agree that arm movements can be considered inferior for very precise movements. However: You don’t have to use your arm when you’re using CPI values of about 800. You can use your wrist and fingers instead.
On April 30 2013 20:02 Kazar wrote:
At the end it's all about routine. Everyone can play any settings if he has the time to get used to.
That is a very dangerous statement. Playing with 12.000 CPI is just plain bad. You can play 12 hours a day for five years — it won’t make it better. There are settings which are inferior to others, no matter how much routine you develop.
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Thank you for the blog post, quite the educational read =)
I also have the Razer Abyssus (gotta support my favourite players : D) and a Razer Goliathus mousepad (control, I guess) and it was a blast switching to this equipment from a MS IntelliOptical (or sort of) and a mousepad with a Garfield cartoon.
Still, I also fell for the "the higher the better"-syndrom and used 1000Hz and 3500 CPI ( ; ) ) the whole time and I am quite used to it. Not to say that I am anywhere near accurate in SC2 ^^ I don't know whether this is because I simply don't practice enough (likely) or because I just use a way too high CPI. Now I switched it down to 1800, which is by your definition still pretty high (although it feels very slow for me right now).
Sadly the Abyssus only has 450 CPI as a third option and that feels definitely too slow. Since downscaling the CPI software-wise reads somewhat negative in your blog I will just keep it at 1800 for now.
Regarding the 1000Hz, I tried the Paint-test on 1000Hz and 125Hz and to my eye it looked the same (same jittery ), so I just keep it at 1000Hz : )
Again, thank you for your insights and the numerous other insights in this thread! Really got me thinking about my settings =)
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can someone explain to me what the refresh rate actually does? Aside from glitching everything out and making single clicks become double clicks on my kinzu, I can't tell the difference between the 125Hz and 1000Hz
800 CPI
http://imgur.com/Wyq4Eag
1600 CPI
http://imgur.com/nMwnyOb
How do people use CPIs above 800? there's so much pixel skipping when I set mine to 1600.
Actually I think the mouse might be broken, because it doesn't skip pixels on 1600, it just ignores movement until I move, say, 5 units, and then it jumps 5 pixels.
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On April 30 2013 22:18 Chaplin wrote:
Thank you for the blog post, quite the educational read =)
You’re welcome. 
On April 30 2013 22:18 Chaplin wrote:
Sadly the Abyssus only has 450 CPI as a third option and that feels definitely too slow. Since downscaling the CPI software-wise reads somewhat negative in your blog I will just keep it at 1800 for now.
Downscaling through software is suboptimal, but not as suboptimal as playing with a suboptimal sensitivity. I recommend 4/11 in Windows, which would bring you to a sensitivity which equals 900 CPI.
On April 30 2013 22:18 Chaplin wrote:Regarding the 1000Hz, I tried the Paint-test on 1000Hz and 125Hz and to my eye it looked the same (same jittery ), so I just keep it at 1000Hz : )
If you value a lower reaction time more than cursor fidelity (= the quality of your mouse cursor movements) go for 1000 Hz.
On April 30 2013 22:20 DW-Unrec wrote:can someone explain to me what the refresh rate actually does? Aside from glitching everything out and making single clicks become double clicks on my kinzu, I can't tell the difference between the 125Hz and 1000Hz 800 CPI http://imgur.com/Wyq4Eag1600 CPI http://imgur.com/nMwnyOb
If single clicks become double clicks, I’d say your mouse is broken (the switch inside your mouse). If you know how to solder you could open your mouse, desolder the old switches and solder new switches.
As both your pictures look the same, I assume you’re using a CPI of 800 or below, which means your mouse won’t show Jitter. Jitter becomes a problem above 800 CPI.
The polling rate of your mouse determines how often Windows receives new data from your mouse. I cannot tell the polling rate you used by looking at your picture (exceptions being Jitter which hints at a high polling rate and lots of flat lines which could hint at a low polling rate).
If you’d like to understand polling rate more thoroughly, you could read the corresponding part in wo1fwoods Overview of Mouse Technology.
On April 30 2013 22:20 DW-Unrec wrote:
How do people use CPIs above 800? there's so much pixel skipping when I set mine to 1600.
Actually I think the mouse might be broken, because it doesn't skip pixels on 1600, it just ignores movement until I move, say, 5 units, and then it jumps 5 pixels.
Your mouse skips pixels when set on 1600 CPI, because SteelSeries designed it so. If you like pixel skipping and acceleration on a hardware level, SteelSeries has you covered.
At 1600 CPI your mouse should jump for two pixels at a time. Unless you use it with 10/11, in which case it would jump for 5 pixels at a time.
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On April 30 2013 21:05 blueslobster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 18:42 Surili wrote:
Thanks for the advice, feeling good about this. So was it probably producing jitter when i had it at 1600 CPI? 1600 CPI produces light amounts of Jitter. 800 CPI is definitely better. See the following picture, which shows a Savu on a Shiden: Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 18:42 Surili wrote:
As for how 800 CPI has been suiting me, i'll put it this way: I completely forgot i had changed it. It is just so much cleaner now, i have been really practicing fast clicking (one of my favourite games at the start is to as fast as possible click accurately on the extractors at opposite sides of my nexus without forming boxes at all, and this is going much better.
…
Basically, since switching to 800 CPI i think, but i'm not 100% that the game is slightly easier for me, clicking on individual units especially grouped fast moving pheonix, but i will post again after my exams and i've had more time to grind out games. Glad to hear that. Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 18:42 Surili wrote:
I don't think it is a problem of size for me at all either, because i have strong hands, from years and years of gaming, followed by being very proficient and prolific in massaging, doing lots of juggling/circus skills, and also rock climbing and bouldering. I’m not sure if more strength is strictly better for doing fine precision movements.
I didn't really mean strength, mostly control, climbing does require pure strength to some extent, but accuracy and control is just as important for bouldering, and it is more important for massage and juggling ^^ Not that i am saying i have any proof they actually have any effect on gaming, i just feel that they probably should.
When you draw those lines above, do you do them quickly or trying to do it accuracy? How do i test it? Is there a video of someone doing this kind of stuff?
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On April 30 2013 23:01 blueslobster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2013 22:18 Chaplin wrote:
Sadly the Abyssus only has 450 CPI as a third option and that feels definitely too slow. Since downscaling the CPI software-wise reads somewhat negative in your blog I will just keep it at 1800 for now. Downscaling through software is suboptimal, but not as suboptimal as playing with a suboptimal sensitivity. I recommend 4/11 in Windows, which would bring you to a sensitivity which equals 900 CPI.
Okay, I'll give it a try : ) In SC2 I still keep the 51%?
(So much movement all of a sudden ^^)
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On April 30 2013 23:19 Surili wrote:
When you draw those lines above, do you do them quickly or trying to do it accuracy? How do i test it? Is there a video of someone doing this kind of stuff?
A few cm/s suffice. It’s no rocket science.
On April 30 2013 23:55 Chaplin wrote:
Okay, I'll give it a try : ) In SC2 I still keep the 51%?
(So much movement all of a sudden ^^)
The corresponding SC 2 value is 31 % (multiplication factor of 0.5).
Enjoy the movement. :D
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On April 02 2013 01:08 blueslobster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 21:55 xgtx wrote:
I have evo ec2 , 450 dpi and 1150 dpi, 450 is too slow and 1150 too fast on 6/11
what can I do? Your mouse has a 3090 sensor (= a very good sensor) and both 1150 CPI and 450 CPI are free of flaws. That’s why I recommend to use 1150 CPI and use Windows and SC 2 to lower your sensitivity from there on. (If you’d choose 450 CPI you’d have to use values above 6/11 which would result in pixel skipping.) With standard Windows values you can reach ~ 862 (5/11) and ~575 CPI (4/11). With Glymbols tool you could further reach ~ 1006 CPI (9/20) or ~ 718 CPI (7/20). Out of these values I’d choose the one which feels best. If you’re indifferent between two values, you should choose the one which drops counts in a harmonic way. In your case the only harmonic value is 4/11 (or 6/20, if you’re using Glymbols tool).
What is Glymbols tool ? I dont find it on google
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On May 04 2013 05:12 xgtx wrote:
What is Glymbols tool ? I dont find it on google
With Glymbols tool you can use the hidden sensitivity values of Windows. Instead of only 11, you now have 20 values. These 20 values are the same 20 values SC 2 uses. Here is a direct download link.
On April 03 2013 23:49 tili wrote:
Do you have any advice/an overview for mac users?
I did some research and wrote a short Mac guide for SC 2:
If you’re using a Mac OS X which predates Lion (Mac OS X 10.7) I recommend to upgrade it. The reason being, that OS X versions before Lion can have the socalled Jump Bug.
Besideds this Jump Bug OS X has two major problems: acceleration and lag.
- Accleration: The acceleration problem could be solved by using Bumblebees acceleration fix.
- Lag: As confirmed by an Apple Engineer (and John Carmack, who used a high FPS camera) OS X has an Input Lag of 32 ms. That is a lot. This lag is the reason that mice felt just so wrong on Macs.
There is a solution: SmoothMouse.
SmoothMouse removes the 32 ms Input Lag. Further it can disable acceleration. It’s like “killing two birds with one stone” (I like “zwei Fliegen mit einer Klappe” more, those poor birds).
If you’d like to install SmoothMouse you have to remove all mouse related software:
- Mouse drivers
- 3rd party mouse drivers (for example: USB Overdrive, SteerMouse, SideTrack)
- Mouse fixes (for example: Bumblebees acceleration fix, MouseFix, mouse acceleration preference panes)
If you need a mouse driver in order to set your mouse to a certain CPI, I recommend to install this mouse driver on a Windows system, set your CPI/Hz, and then use your mouse on your Mac system.
SmoothMouse works with SC 2. According to the SmoothMouse project manager Dae, SmoothMouse can have problems with games in windowed mode or setups with two monitors. Be aware of that.
How to setup SmoothMouse:
- Use Linear mode if you want to deactivate acceleration.
- The Windows Slider has 11 notches, with 6/11 giving you 1:1 input. The SmoothMouse slider has 12 notches, with 4/12 giving you 1:1 input.
- Dae recommends using 500 Hz instead of 1000 Hz. I contacted Dae as to why he gave that recommendation. Here is what he said: “I recommend against 1000 Hz polling rate because OS X may behave a little weird when trying to process that many of events from SmoothMouse. These are rather small and random problems. For example, when you click out of a text editor, it would sometimes suddenly start scrolling upwards. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it does not.
I would like to emphasize that technically the 'weirdness' is not caused by SmoothMouse, but problems within OS X itself. We've already tuned SmoothMouse for best performance, and there is very little we can do about them.
Nevertheless I don't think these problems often occur in games.”
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So I noticed that your mouse movement recorder when properly configured looks like this:
http://mousespeed.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Sensitivity-6-11.png
Everything is 1 x 0
Mine looks like this though:
http://i.imgur.com/av078Nm.png
Does that mean I messed something up somewhere? My DeathAdder settings look like this:
http://i.imgur.com/QKDJU48.png
(in case it is hard to see, I currently have polling rate at 500hz and my DPI is at 900)
I'm dumb, I just realized it means which direction on each axis I'm moving lol
Still have this question:
After a few weeks of use after following the instructions in the guide, idk, my accuracy just doesn't feel like it's where it needs to be, I misclick a lot =/
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On May 17 2013 07:42 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
in case it is hard to see, I currently have polling rate at 500hz and my DPI is at 900
Have you tried 1000 Hz?
On May 17 2013 07:42 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Still have this question:
After a few weeks of use after following the instructions in the guide, idk, my accuracy just doesn't feel like it's where it needs to be, I misclick a lot =/
So you’re still not GM? ;P
How long have you been playing with 900 CPI? Only through April 2013 or for a longer time?
If you want to work on your precision and speed, I highly recommend reflex TE on missionred.com.
Note that you are heavily limited by the choice of your mouse: the DeathAdder is, well, it’s heavy. As good as its tracking is, according to Razers product page the 2013 edition weighs in at a whopping 105 g. As SC 2 is a game of rapid clicks all over the place, you have to change direction very often. And every time you change your direction you have to decelerate and accelerate your mouse. A heavy mouse is not suited for this style of movement.
Additionally the DeathAdder is quite large. Maybe it interferes with your grip. Note that I’m currently writing on my grip article, but it’s not quite done yet. ;P
On a side note: If you have a EU Battle.net account it would be nice of you, if you posted in this Battle.net thread and let Blizzard know you find it confusing, that you have to avoid sensitivity values like 50 % and would like for that to change. “Blizzard please fix this.” should suffice.
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On May 17 2013 19:53 blueslobster wrote:If you want to work on your precision and speed, I highly recommend reflex TE on missionred.com.
What is a good score on this game? I just played it for the first time and scored 239500, round 5, accuracy 88%. I guess i will improve with practice, but i was wondering for a benchmark.
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On May 17 2013 20:12 Surili wrote:What is a good score on this game? I just played it for the first time and scored 239500, round 5, accuracy 88%. I guess i will improve with practice, but i was wondering for a benchmark.
Scores aren’t important. What matters is how far you get. Round 8 or 9 is good.
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On May 17 2013 19:53 blueslobster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 07:42 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
in case it is hard to see, I currently have polling rate at 500hz and my DPI is at 900 Have you tried 1000 Hz? Show nested quote +On May 17 2013 07:42 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Still have this question:
After a few weeks of use after following the instructions in the guide, idk, my accuracy just doesn't feel like it's where it needs to be, I misclick a lot =/ So you’re still not GM? ;P How long have you been playing with 900 CPI? Only through April 2013 or for a longer time? If you want to work on your precision and speed, I highly recommend reflex TE on missionred.com. Note that you are heavily limited by the choice of your mouse: the DeathAdder is, well, it’s heavy. As good as its tracking is, according to Razers product page the 2013 edition weighs in at a whopping 105 g. As SC 2 is a game of rapid clicks all over the place, you have to change direction very often. And every time you change your direction you have to decelerate and accelerate your mouse. A heavy mouse is not suited for this style of movement. Additionally the DeathAdder is quite large. Maybe it interferes with your grip. Note that I’m currently writing on my grip article, but it’s not quite done yet. ;P On a side note: If you have a EU Battle.net account it would be nice of you, if you posted in this Battle.net thread and let Blizzard know you find it confusing, that you have to avoid sensitivity values like 50 % and would like for that to change. “Blizzard please fix this.” should suffice.
The DeathAdder is...heavy?! It's the lightest and most comfortable mouse I have ever owned. I use the "fingertip" grip as described here: http://www.razerzone.com/mouseguide/ergonomic/fingertipgrip Everything else feels uncomfortable and unnatural.
I'll try out that missionred thing, do it for what, 15 minutes every day?
I guess you're telling me that everything is set up properly, my hands/brain just suck ass still . Good to know, I can work with that, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong.
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On May 17 2013 20:51 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
The DeathAdder is...heavy?! It's the lightest and most comfortable mouse I have ever owned.
Then you have owned really heavy mice.
You must have large hands if you’re able to fingertip grip the DeathAdder. Good for you. 
On May 17 2013 20:51 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
I'll try out that missionred thing, do it for what, 15 minutes every day?
That sounds about right.
On May 17 2013 20:51 KrazyTrumpet wrote:I guess you're telling me that everything is set up properly, my hands/brain just suck ass still . Good to know, I can work with that, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong.
Maybe your level of precision and speed is very high and you only think you suck because you have very high standards. I don’t know without seeing you playing.
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EPT
