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Personally, I'm a bit surprised that people still find relevance in foreigners competing in the Korean scene. They're done. Part of me hopes that Naniwa/Major is going to surprise us all, but quite frankly I'd also much prefer it if we skipped straight to the point where we've sorted out the wheat from the chaff and finally got some good games again. Pretty tired of being disappointed in "the next foreign star".
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I can understand the decision to not take a seed/ not taking part in GSL from a foreigners point of view. Its really a lose-lose situation.
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On March 28 2013 05:58 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:44 TheSayo182 wrote:On March 28 2013 05:29 Enders116 wrote:
In the words of IdrA, sc2 players in Korean training houses have very little freedom to do what they want to do when they want to do it. So, in other words, if a player wants to go fishing on this day or that day, it just doesn't happen. 14 hours a day are dedicated to starcraft 2, possibly an hour here or there becomes free time (breakfast, lunch and dinner) and so on. He even said in a separate interview that sometimes it is too much and players start making mistakes just because they are playing far too much.
Coupling the above paragraph with the idea that Code S is very "cut throat" and the odds are stacked against anyone who gets in to it, I don't blame stephano for doing what he's doing. He has much better odds with EU and NA tournaments than he does with the GSL. finally someone with a brain here, being jailed in an korean(or any country where your language is not spoken) apartment is not what you need to be happy and good at your work PS. i have been many time in that situation, at a certain point the only thing you think is: when i can go home? It is when the Koreans seem to be the only people willing to put in the consistent 14-hour grinds. Why should someone getting 100k be able to dictate their day-to-day routine? My mum used to work from 6am to 8pm in a foreign country, in a job where women were the exception, working a role to try to integrate more minorities/women into that working environment. I didn't see her complaining about it for 8 years because the £££ was the end result, and that's certainly a more hostile work environment than sitting in an apartment having all your meals/laundry done for you so that you can put 100% into being a better player. You want to play foreigner in Korea and see the sights? Well tough shit kid, your there to work not to muck about. The fact of the matter is, Stephano/pretty much every single foreigner seems to lack the hunger/motivation that Koreans possess. Read BoXeR's book, he acheived what he did by practicing so hard that even his PRACTICE PARTNERS were saying "I'm tired, let's stop". And even then he kept going. That's the kind of dedication that will lead a foreigner to take the first GSL trophy. And I do have hope for Maj0r, I just hope that he keeps grinding it out. I'm encouraged by the fact I almost never see him streaming; IMO if you want to be the best you can't do that when your focusing on streaming as you are not getting the quality of practice required to be one of the world's best.
It may not be about motivation or drive. From someone who has worked 70-80 work weeks for a few months, it was hard enough even with being able to visit with friends and family on my day off. I am not sure I could have worked that much or that hard if I lived in a house where I couldn’t speak with anyone and all my friends and family were a 16 hour flight away. I don’t think I could work as much as I do now with out my girlfriend at home. If I was transplanted to Korea to do legal work for 14 hours a day, I would make it a few months at max and then peace out.
Look at this is way. What if you we took a Kespa house and deposited it in New York City? Assuming they had magic internet and could play on the Korean server, do you think they would still be able to practice as much or as well? I think it would have a negative effect on their practicing, personally, because they were so far away from home, friends and their support network.
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On March 28 2013 06:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:58 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On March 28 2013 05:44 TheSayo182 wrote:On March 28 2013 05:29 Enders116 wrote:
In the words of IdrA, sc2 players in Korean training houses have very little freedom to do what they want to do when they want to do it. So, in other words, if a player wants to go fishing on this day or that day, it just doesn't happen. 14 hours a day are dedicated to starcraft 2, possibly an hour here or there becomes free time (breakfast, lunch and dinner) and so on. He even said in a separate interview that sometimes it is too much and players start making mistakes just because they are playing far too much.
Coupling the above paragraph with the idea that Code S is very "cut throat" and the odds are stacked against anyone who gets in to it, I don't blame stephano for doing what he's doing. He has much better odds with EU and NA tournaments than he does with the GSL. finally someone with a brain here, being jailed in an korean(or any country where your language is not spoken) apartment is not what you need to be happy and good at your work PS. i have been many time in that situation, at a certain point the only thing you think is: when i can go home? It is when the Koreans seem to be the only people willing to put in the consistent 14-hour grinds. Why should someone getting 100k be able to dictate their day-to-day routine? My mum used to work from 6am to 8pm in a foreign country, in a job where women were the exception, working a role to try to integrate more minorities/women into that working environment. I didn't see her complaining about it for 8 years because the £££ was the end result, and that's certainly a more hostile work environment than sitting in an apartment having all your meals/laundry done for you so that you can put 100% into being a better player. You want to play foreigner in Korea and see the sights? Well tough shit kid, your there to work not to muck about. The fact of the matter is, Stephano/pretty much every single foreigner seems to lack the hunger/motivation that Koreans possess. Read BoXeR's book, he acheived what he did by practicing so hard that even his PRACTICE PARTNERS were saying "I'm tired, let's stop". And even then he kept going. That's the kind of dedication that will lead a foreigner to take the first GSL trophy. And I do have hope for Maj0r, I just hope that he keeps grinding it out. I'm encouraged by the fact I almost never see him streaming; IMO if you want to be the best you can't do that when your focusing on streaming as you are not getting the quality of practice required to be one of the world's best. It may not be about motivation or drive. From someone who has worked 70-80 work weeks for a few months, it was hard enough even with being able to visit with friends and family on my day off. I am not sure I could have worked that much or that hard if I lived in a house where I couldn’t speak with anyone and all my friends and family were a 16 hour flight away. I don’t think I could work as much as I do now with out my girlfriend at home. If I was transplanted to Korea to do legal work for 14 hours a day, I would make it a few months at max and then peace out. Look at this is way. What if you we took a Kespa house and deposited it in New York City? Assuming they had magic internet and could play on the Korean server, do you think they would still be able to practice as much or as well? I think it would have a negative effect on their practicing, personally, because they were so far away from home, friends and their support network.
You misread his post as a 'where' this occurs instead of 'what' is missing. Stay in your home country, but practise as much as the koreans. Grinding leads to absolute perfection of something because SC2 is primarily mechanical.
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Meh, I think it's been clear for a long time now that he's not the Korean killer so many fanboys portrayed him as. His ZvZ has always been pretty dismal, ZvP was really strong while he used the 200/200 roach maxout and pretty much any given Zerg had strong ZvT. At best he could have been a ZvP sniper but in Korea, even that is a huge stretch.
Overall, good choice by him imo. I hope EGTL stops trying to field foreigners to gain viewers and actually focuses on winning games. I might start using my PL subscription again....
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Good for Stephano~
I think the majority of fans want to see Stephano competing in the GSL, but I never got the impression that is what Stephano wanted. This is a guy who wasn't even sure he was going to stick with SC2 not that long ago.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with living a more laid back life while consistently placing in the money in international tournaments. Anti-fans will try to use this as proof that he's not as good as people think he is. I think the only thing it proves is that he cares more about having fun and winning money than being the undisputed world champion.
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On March 28 2013 06:16 etherealfall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 06:11 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 05:58 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On March 28 2013 05:44 TheSayo182 wrote:On March 28 2013 05:29 Enders116 wrote:
In the words of IdrA, sc2 players in Korean training houses have very little freedom to do what they want to do when they want to do it. So, in other words, if a player wants to go fishing on this day or that day, it just doesn't happen. 14 hours a day are dedicated to starcraft 2, possibly an hour here or there becomes free time (breakfast, lunch and dinner) and so on. He even said in a separate interview that sometimes it is too much and players start making mistakes just because they are playing far too much.
Coupling the above paragraph with the idea that Code S is very "cut throat" and the odds are stacked against anyone who gets in to it, I don't blame stephano for doing what he's doing. He has much better odds with EU and NA tournaments than he does with the GSL. finally someone with a brain here, being jailed in an korean(or any country where your language is not spoken) apartment is not what you need to be happy and good at your work PS. i have been many time in that situation, at a certain point the only thing you think is: when i can go home? It is when the Koreans seem to be the only people willing to put in the consistent 14-hour grinds. Why should someone getting 100k be able to dictate their day-to-day routine? My mum used to work from 6am to 8pm in a foreign country, in a job where women were the exception, working a role to try to integrate more minorities/women into that working environment. I didn't see her complaining about it for 8 years because the £££ was the end result, and that's certainly a more hostile work environment than sitting in an apartment having all your meals/laundry done for you so that you can put 100% into being a better player. You want to play foreigner in Korea and see the sights? Well tough shit kid, your there to work not to muck about. The fact of the matter is, Stephano/pretty much every single foreigner seems to lack the hunger/motivation that Koreans possess. Read BoXeR's book, he acheived what he did by practicing so hard that even his PRACTICE PARTNERS were saying "I'm tired, let's stop". And even then he kept going. That's the kind of dedication that will lead a foreigner to take the first GSL trophy. And I do have hope for Maj0r, I just hope that he keeps grinding it out. I'm encouraged by the fact I almost never see him streaming; IMO if you want to be the best you can't do that when your focusing on streaming as you are not getting the quality of practice required to be one of the world's best. It may not be about motivation or drive. From someone who has worked 70-80 work weeks for a few months, it was hard enough even with being able to visit with friends and family on my day off. I am not sure I could have worked that much or that hard if I lived in a house where I couldn’t speak with anyone and all my friends and family were a 16 hour flight away. I don’t think I could work as much as I do now with out my girlfriend at home. If I was transplanted to Korea to do legal work for 14 hours a day, I would make it a few months at max and then peace out. Look at this is way. What if you we took a Kespa house and deposited it in New York City? Assuming they had magic internet and could play on the Korean server, do you think they would still be able to practice as much or as well? I think it would have a negative effect on their practicing, personally, because they were so far away from home, friends and their support network. You misread his post as a 'where' this occurs instead of 'what' is missing. Stay in your home country, but practise as much as the koreans. Grinding leads to absolute perfection of something because SC2 is primarily mechanical.
That is 100% incorrect. If you play for 14 hour on the NA ladder, it does not equal playing 14 hours on the Korean ladder.
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On March 28 2013 05:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 04:43 Irre wrote:
I wonder if EG will renew his contract. You might say, " ARE YOU CRAZY HES THE BEST FOREIGNER!" and while this is true, I am not sure he is making EG very happy right now. Hes not much of a promoter the way the rest of the teams foreign players are. He is not cooperating with the top priorities of EGs A Team- wont play in GSL and Proleague. He has personality and skill, but without playing in those leagues, is he really offering EG enough to warrant the 100k a year investment? I would say no, and given the past behavioral issues and the efforts made to accomodate him without the return of practice, participation or promotion, I would actually be surprised if his contract is renewed next time around. There's also the bad publicity and sponsor drama they got from the 15 year old girl situation. He's the king of controversial issues (even back when he was on Mill.), but he's also winning tournaments and playing really well overall, which is another thing that helps advertise EG and its sponsors. I'm sure they've taken that into consideration as well, and so I don't see him leaving EG anytime soon.
He's winning tournaments? When?
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On March 28 2013 06:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 28 2013 04:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 04:43 Irre wrote:
I wonder if EG will renew his contract. You might say, " ARE YOU CRAZY HES THE BEST FOREIGNER!" and while this is true, I am not sure he is making EG very happy right now. Hes not much of a promoter the way the rest of the teams foreign players are. He is not cooperating with the top priorities of EGs A Team- wont play in GSL and Proleague. He has personality and skill, but without playing in those leagues, is he really offering EG enough to warrant the 100k a year investment? I would say no, and given the past behavioral issues and the efforts made to accomodate him without the return of practice, participation or promotion, I would actually be surprised if his contract is renewed next time around. There's also the bad publicity and sponsor drama they got from the 15 year old girl situation. He's the king of controversial issues (even back when he was on Mill.), but he's also winning tournaments and playing really well overall, which is another thing that helps advertise EG and its sponsors. I'm sure they've taken that into consideration as well, and so I don't see him leaving EG anytime soon. He's winning tournaments? When?
Liquipidia? They list all his wins in great detail.
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On March 28 2013 06:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 06:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 05:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 28 2013 04:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 04:43 Irre wrote:
I wonder if EG will renew his contract. You might say, " ARE YOU CRAZY HES THE BEST FOREIGNER!" and while this is true, I am not sure he is making EG very happy right now. Hes not much of a promoter the way the rest of the teams foreign players are. He is not cooperating with the top priorities of EGs A Team- wont play in GSL and Proleague. He has personality and skill, but without playing in those leagues, is he really offering EG enough to warrant the 100k a year investment? I would say no, and given the past behavioral issues and the efforts made to accomodate him without the return of practice, participation or promotion, I would actually be surprised if his contract is renewed next time around. There's also the bad publicity and sponsor drama they got from the 15 year old girl situation. He's the king of controversial issues (even back when he was on Mill.), but he's also winning tournaments and playing really well overall, which is another thing that helps advertise EG and its sponsors. I'm sure they've taken that into consideration as well, and so I don't see him leaving EG anytime soon. He's winning tournaments? When? Liquipidia? They list all his wins in great detail.
You mean 1 win in a Premier LAN with Koreans in the last 18 months?
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On March 28 2013 06:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 06:16 etherealfall wrote:On March 28 2013 06:11 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 05:58 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:On March 28 2013 05:44 TheSayo182 wrote:On March 28 2013 05:29 Enders116 wrote:
In the words of IdrA, sc2 players in Korean training houses have very little freedom to do what they want to do when they want to do it. So, in other words, if a player wants to go fishing on this day or that day, it just doesn't happen. 14 hours a day are dedicated to starcraft 2, possibly an hour here or there becomes free time (breakfast, lunch and dinner) and so on. He even said in a separate interview that sometimes it is too much and players start making mistakes just because they are playing far too much.
Coupling the above paragraph with the idea that Code S is very "cut throat" and the odds are stacked against anyone who gets in to it, I don't blame stephano for doing what he's doing. He has much better odds with EU and NA tournaments than he does with the GSL. finally someone with a brain here, being jailed in an korean(or any country where your language is not spoken) apartment is not what you need to be happy and good at your work PS. i have been many time in that situation, at a certain point the only thing you think is: when i can go home? It is when the Koreans seem to be the only people willing to put in the consistent 14-hour grinds. Why should someone getting 100k be able to dictate their day-to-day routine? My mum used to work from 6am to 8pm in a foreign country, in a job where women were the exception, working a role to try to integrate more minorities/women into that working environment. I didn't see her complaining about it for 8 years because the £££ was the end result, and that's certainly a more hostile work environment than sitting in an apartment having all your meals/laundry done for you so that you can put 100% into being a better player. You want to play foreigner in Korea and see the sights? Well tough shit kid, your there to work not to muck about. The fact of the matter is, Stephano/pretty much every single foreigner seems to lack the hunger/motivation that Koreans possess. Read BoXeR's book, he acheived what he did by practicing so hard that even his PRACTICE PARTNERS were saying "I'm tired, let's stop". And even then he kept going. That's the kind of dedication that will lead a foreigner to take the first GSL trophy. And I do have hope for Maj0r, I just hope that he keeps grinding it out. I'm encouraged by the fact I almost never see him streaming; IMO if you want to be the best you can't do that when your focusing on streaming as you are not getting the quality of practice required to be one of the world's best. It may not be about motivation or drive. From someone who has worked 70-80 work weeks for a few months, it was hard enough even with being able to visit with friends and family on my day off. I am not sure I could have worked that much or that hard if I lived in a house where I couldn’t speak with anyone and all my friends and family were a 16 hour flight away. I don’t think I could work as much as I do now with out my girlfriend at home. If I was transplanted to Korea to do legal work for 14 hours a day, I would make it a few months at max and then peace out. Look at this is way. What if you we took a Kespa house and deposited it in New York City? Assuming they had magic internet and could play on the Korean server, do you think they would still be able to practice as much or as well? I think it would have a negative effect on their practicing, personally, because they were so far away from home, friends and their support network. You misread his post as a 'where' this occurs instead of 'what' is missing. Stay in your home country, but practise as much as the koreans. Grinding leads to absolute perfection of something because SC2 is primarily mechanical. That is 100% incorrect. If you play for 14 hour on the NA ladder, it does not equal playing 14 hours on the Korean ladder.
Exactly buddy. 14 hours on NA isn't like the KR server. And who is putting in 14 hours on the NA server anyway? Maybe straight ladder sessions occasionally but certainly not top gamer vs top gamer hard core for hours on end. I watch alot of Demuslim/Thorzain and other foreign Terrans, and they all start complaining about being tired/go off-air after about 6-10 hours. And that's streaming on the NA servers which is not doing them any good aside from generating revenue.
I'm sure Koreans would do slightly worse in NA however I feel that the work ethic that the best of them seem to have would carry over and they certainly wouldn't fall off as much as foreigners do in Korea. However I feel this is how it stands: Koreans are traditionally the best at the game, so there is huge competition. They work their asses off to try to be the best they can be, because Koreans get fans outside of Korea by having fantastic plays and results. These guys will work their asses off and heavily integrate coaching/practicing with partners in order to be the best and develop the game further.
Then you look at top foreigners; they got to where they are practicing at home generally, then they generate a fan base which is the determining factor in picking up a team/salary. I can't speak in full details but I can't help feel like these guys are just content to be "the best of the west" rather than having that extra drive that will push them through adversity. I guess they prioritize making the safe living streaming, being a "community figure" etc. rather than making the dedicated grind to be the best, which obviously is a huge risk, but someone needs to take it if we are ever going to have a GSL champion from outside Korea...
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Oh people. It is a lot more than just Code S being hard. Living in a completely different country in a teamhouse is probably very very different from what Stephano has been used to. Add the language issue and the fact that while in Korea you can't practically attend any international tournaments.
I personally think that Stephano is one of the players who have the healthiest approach to pro-gaming. He sees it as something he can do for a while but not forever and he also understands the importance of other aspects in life. Clearly sacrifing personal happiness just to compete in a tournament organised every two months is worth it, not.
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On March 28 2013 06:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 06:23 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 06:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 05:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 28 2013 04:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 04:43 Irre wrote:
I wonder if EG will renew his contract. You might say, " ARE YOU CRAZY HES THE BEST FOREIGNER!" and while this is true, I am not sure he is making EG very happy right now. Hes not much of a promoter the way the rest of the teams foreign players are. He is not cooperating with the top priorities of EGs A Team- wont play in GSL and Proleague. He has personality and skill, but without playing in those leagues, is he really offering EG enough to warrant the 100k a year investment? I would say no, and given the past behavioral issues and the efforts made to accomodate him without the return of practice, participation or promotion, I would actually be surprised if his contract is renewed next time around. There's also the bad publicity and sponsor drama they got from the 15 year old girl situation. He's the king of controversial issues (even back when he was on Mill.), but he's also winning tournaments and playing really well overall, which is another thing that helps advertise EG and its sponsors. I'm sure they've taken that into consideration as well, and so I don't see him leaving EG anytime soon. He's winning tournaments? When? Liquipidia? They list all his wins in great detail. You mean 1 win in a Premier LAN with Koreans in the last 18 months?
Oh I see what you did there, you took out all the tournments without Koreans in them and then said he won once in 18 months. I get it. So events without Koreans don't count and placing high in events also doesn't count. Well I am sure that sponsors are using that metric you created there.
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well this is fucking lame :/
He might have actually done okay too.
oh well. Somewhere in Korea there's a code S spot and an MVP without his castle.
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http://sc2earnings.com/
only MC, MVP and Nestea have earned (only prize money speaking) more than him,
and all this without grinding 14 hours in KR ladder (mostly), where is your god now?
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I was never a fan of Stephano, but did people shit on Sheth this much when he left korea? Isn`t Stephano homesick as well?
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Stephano's style don't use mutalisk, but in HotS mutalisk is necessary in ZvZ and ZvT (speedvacs anoying must be destroyed!) so... I think he should retire and start his graduation.
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On March 28 2013 06:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 06:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 06:23 Plansix wrote:On March 28 2013 06:21 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 05:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 28 2013 04:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On March 28 2013 04:43 Irre wrote:
I wonder if EG will renew his contract. You might say, " ARE YOU CRAZY HES THE BEST FOREIGNER!" and while this is true, I am not sure he is making EG very happy right now. Hes not much of a promoter the way the rest of the teams foreign players are. He is not cooperating with the top priorities of EGs A Team- wont play in GSL and Proleague. He has personality and skill, but without playing in those leagues, is he really offering EG enough to warrant the 100k a year investment? I would say no, and given the past behavioral issues and the efforts made to accomodate him without the return of practice, participation or promotion, I would actually be surprised if his contract is renewed next time around. There's also the bad publicity and sponsor drama they got from the 15 year old girl situation. He's the king of controversial issues (even back when he was on Mill.), but he's also winning tournaments and playing really well overall, which is another thing that helps advertise EG and its sponsors. I'm sure they've taken that into consideration as well, and so I don't see him leaving EG anytime soon. He's winning tournaments? When? Liquipidia? They list all his wins in great detail. You mean 1 win in a Premier LAN with Koreans in the last 18 months? Oh I see what you did there, you took out all the tournments without Koreans in them and then said he won once in 18 months. I get it. So events without Koreans don't count and placing high in events also doesn't count. Well I am sure that sponsors are using that metric you created there.
Unfortunate, but true.
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taking foreigners seriously gets harder and harder, why pull out of the highest level of competition to concentrate on the "lower tier" of competition. I just dont get it sure he gets the easier money but does he grow as a player doing so? im not so sure
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On March 28 2013 06:44 TheSayo182 wrote:http://sc2earnings.com/only MC, MVP and Nestea have earned (only prize money speaking) more than him, and all this without grinding 14 hours in KR ladder (mostly), where is your god now?
i think a handful of kespa players have made more than stephano with salary in 3 years
i would imagine god made 600k in 3 years
or is it 2 years, not sure.
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EPT
