EPTOn March 28 2013 04:53 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:
Please don't call salary caps stupid, they make sense. As a hockey(toronto maple leafs)and a soccer(Fulhamfc) I support two teams at the middle to bottom of the barrel. However I cannot respect a team like man city who can just get a rich owner spend a billion in 3-4 years and have a championship to show for it. Salary caps force teams to use their money responsibly.
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2013 03:41 StarStruck wrote:
It's next to impossible with stupid salary caps but they do this to keep all the teams competitive and level the playing field. There are consequences when you expand your league to the point the player pool just isn't the same, or expand to areas that aren't necessarily viable or market proven or how about lockouts between ownership and the players? The '94 lockout destroyed the Blue Jays in terms of attendance, mystique and losing core players. This doesn't even address the process of losing and what it does to your fan's morale to show up. Salary caps are a bitch and the game changes to maintaining your core and finding players for the supporting roles. Dynasties are a thing of the past.
It's fun to talk about such things but when we're talking about RTS gaming especially over here? I find it somewhat irrelevant because it's mostly based on individual achievements. In Korea, sure there's more emphasis on the Team Leagues but player's have said all the time they want that individual sense of accomplishment as well. Not only that, but the onus is truly on the players for them to be successful. They have a lot of responsibility. In the past we've seen certain players dominate the scene for small to lengthy periods of time whether it be Brood War, Warcraft 3 or SC2. It does happen. Regardless of the format like our Western Gauntlet Lans or long dragged out processes like your OSLs/GSLs/team leagues. Time and time again the Koreans have shown they can shine in both. Ofc it's only a weekend in a foreign place to them when they show up here and do there thing. It's like a holiday; whereas, if you want to compete in the GSL/OSL shindigs you're basically relocating. It's much easier to take a holiday compared to relocating. It's much easier on them. I'd like to see the correlation between Koreans joining/moving elsewhere and still finding some success. Polt will be fun to watch out for now that he's in Texas and found some success but I'm not sure when he finally moved back to Korea or how long he stayed inside the U.S.
On March 28 2013 02:52 Plansix wrote:
Real sports are no more consistent than Esports. Winning 5 super bowls in a row is unheard of, or 5 masters or any number of World Series. The Yankees are known for winning 26 world series in the life of the ball club, which dates back nearly 100 years. They are the only club with that many titles in all of professional sports. The only reason teams seem consistent in real sports is because their seasons take a full year. And people who cheer for a team one year, only to leave them when they lose next year.
Once again, you can cheer for the top player if you want, but don’t go out of your way to mock the people who are fans the guys who lost or are doing poorly.
On March 28 2013 02:35 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
People are never going to be like that for Sc2 because you don't grow up with a team like you do it in real sports.
Instead people support players for their country, region, race, team, playstyle etc..
Real sports are also a lot more consistent, your favourite team is a constant forever. When I first got into Sc2 my favourite players were Nestea, Fruit Dealer, Jinro and July and my favourite team was oGs. Three of those players don't even play anymore, Nestea plays but is a shadow of what he was and oGs has disbanded. I'd love for Nestea to come back but it's not going to happen, so naturally people move onto new players to cheer for who are active.
On March 28 2013 02:16 Plansix wrote:
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
On March 28 2013 02:06 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
On March 28 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
On March 28 2013 01:57 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era.
Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era
Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era
Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era
Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
On March 28 2013 01:51 Plansix wrote:
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
On March 28 2013 01:46 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
[quote]
This is the kind of logic that's so funny about Stephano fans (it also applies for Nerchio, Naniwa and any other of the current hyped foreigners too).
We constantly have to suffer this double think of how when they win (or better yet not actually playing vs Koreans at all as this is when their hype is biggest) they're Code S quality, amongst the absolute best in the world and can beat anyone and take down any tournament including Code S.
When they lose however it's okay because they lost to good player and there's no shame in that apparently.
The foreigner fanboy however never makes the connection that beating top players like Last, MVP, Yoda, Life and Flash is what makes you a top player and consistently losing to these level of players (like Stephano has for months and months now) means you're not a top player.
Stephano got absolutely smashed at IEM and MLG, no if's no but's he was destroyed by better players.
Well I can say he did shitty and should have done better. That it is unacceptable to get beaten 3-0 and that is total crap. But you see, I am a Red Sox fan, so I know what slumps are. Unlike many fans in the SC2 scene, who are like weather vains and just band wagon to the next winning Korean player and call him a god of the game until he loses and then its on to the next one. I would say that one is not much better than the other.
What's wrong with that? It's basically how Sc2 has worked at the pro level since it's inception.
Beta/Late 2010 - Fruitdealer/Tester era.
Early - Mid 2011 - Mvp/MC/Nestea era
Late 2011 - Mvp/MMA/DRG era
Early - Mid 2012 - MKP/DRG era
Mid - Late 2012 - Life/Parting/Rain/Leenock/Patch Zerg era
Are you denying that players in Sc2 tend to be at the top for about 6 months maximum and then fall off still able to win tournament but never consistently stringing together GSL/MLG wins like Mvp, DRG and Life were able to do at their peaks?
Well in the Boston area, we have words for people like that, but I won't use it on TL. But it's called being a fair weather fan. They cheer when their team is winning, but disappear when they aren't. Real fan cheer when the team is playing. I still cheer for MC and willl until he quits. Same with MKP and the members of EG. I am not a fair weather fan, I even cheer when they lose.
Most Sc2 fans are a fan of the game more than players so we just like whoever has cool play and shows good games.
That is what a fair weather fan is, they don't care who is playing and just cheer for the winner because it is easy. They like to watch the winner and can’t deal with the disappointment, or the idea that they might have to wait to see their favorite player be awesome. Fans like myself and my father who waited 20 years or (nearly 60 in my fathers case) for the Sox to win a world series have little patience for fair weather fans.
People are never going to be like that for Sc2 because you don't grow up with a team like you do it in real sports.
Instead people support players for their country, region, race, team, playstyle etc..
Real sports are also a lot more consistent, your favourite team is a constant forever. When I first got into Sc2 my favourite players were Nestea, Fruit Dealer, Jinro and July and my favourite team was oGs. Three of those players don't even play anymore, Nestea plays but is a shadow of what he was and oGs has disbanded. I'd love for Nestea to come back but it's not going to happen, so naturally people move onto new players to cheer for who are active.
Real sports are no more consistent than Esports. Winning 5 super bowls in a row is unheard of, or 5 masters or any number of World Series. The Yankees are known for winning 26 world series in the life of the ball club, which dates back nearly 100 years. They are the only club with that many titles in all of professional sports. The only reason teams seem consistent in real sports is because their seasons take a full year. And people who cheer for a team one year, only to leave them when they lose next year.
Once again, you can cheer for the top player if you want, but don’t go out of your way to mock the people who are fans the guys who lost or are doing poorly.
It's next to impossible with stupid salary caps but they do this to keep all the teams competitive and level the playing field. There are consequences when you expand your league to the point the player pool just isn't the same, or expand to areas that aren't necessarily viable or market proven or how about lockouts between ownership and the players? The '94 lockout destroyed the Blue Jays in terms of attendance, mystique and losing core players. This doesn't even address the process of losing and what it does to your fan's morale to show up. Salary caps are a bitch and the game changes to maintaining your core and finding players for the supporting roles. Dynasties are a thing of the past.
It's fun to talk about such things but when we're talking about RTS gaming especially over here? I find it somewhat irrelevant because it's mostly based on individual achievements. In Korea, sure there's more emphasis on the Team Leagues but player's have said all the time they want that individual sense of accomplishment as well. Not only that, but the onus is truly on the players for them to be successful. They have a lot of responsibility. In the past we've seen certain players dominate the scene for small to lengthy periods of time whether it be Brood War, Warcraft 3 or SC2. It does happen. Regardless of the format like our Western Gauntlet Lans or long dragged out processes like your OSLs/GSLs/team leagues. Time and time again the Koreans have shown they can shine in both. Ofc it's only a weekend in a foreign place to them when they show up here and do there thing. It's like a holiday; whereas, if you want to compete in the GSL/OSL shindigs you're basically relocating. It's much easier to take a holiday compared to relocating. It's much easier on them. I'd like to see the correlation between Koreans joining/moving elsewhere and still finding some success. Polt will be fun to watch out for now that he's in Texas and found some success but I'm not sure when he finally moved back to Korea or how long he stayed inside the U.S.
Please don't call salary caps stupid, they make sense. As a hockey(toronto maple leafs)and a soccer(Fulhamfc) I support two teams at the middle to bottom of the barrel. However I cannot respect a team like man city who can just get a rich owner spend a billion in 3-4 years and have a championship to show for it. Salary caps force teams to use their money responsibly.
As a German, I must say, prohibiting rich people from taking over clubs completely works quite nicely without installing a salary cap and it allows clubs to profit from making wise decisions on the financial side of things.
