• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:38
CEST 10:38
KST 17:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy6uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event14Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments5[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Rogue Talks: "Koreans could dominate again" Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) ByuN vs TaeJa Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
New season has just come in ladder StarCraft player reflex TE scores BW General Discussion BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Bitcoin discussion thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gaming After Dark: Poor Slee…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 653 users

March 18th 2013: David Kim's HotS Thoughts - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 16 Next All
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
March 18 2013 20:59 GMT
#181
Still doesn't change (at least for me) the fact that most of Zerg feels boring...Terran players have some crazy new abilities that make them even more entertaining, while Protoss is more or less the same...but Zerg? All the cool abilities which might provide aggressive potential just...don't work. Aggression shouldn't be expressed in a unit...but in a PLAYSTYLE. New zerg units are used in the mid/late game and are just the definition of boring. While the viper is a cool unit, it supplements boring units (roach/hydra) and eats so much into supply.

Thing is, speedivacs just look FUN. Mines look FUN. The compositions and playstyles of Zerg which look the most entertaining by far either aren't viable or aren't worth the investment.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
KatuStarcraft
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada161 Posts
March 18 2013 21:01 GMT
#182
protoss and terran have new early mid game units to get aggressive with, which is really nice, why no love for zerg? Blizzard keeps giving us more and more late game units that sooner or later people will bitch about cuz zergs finally figured out or got buffed their already existing units to a point that we can survive to late game.
Video games and whiskey.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 18 2013 21:03 GMT
#183
On March 19 2013 05:54 ALPINA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 05:50 TigerKarl wrote:
I hope that they're not afraid to massively change boring units like void rays, corrupters. I had hoped that they'd remove and replace them completely, due to them not having a BroodWar background, but sadly that didn't happen, which will turn out to be a mistake.


Blizzard is clueless in that regard. They had all the time in the world to change corruptor but they didn't even touched it. I am not even talking about collossus - most boring unit in the game. Just replace it with reaver, adjust damage accordingly and game becomes so much more better.


Man, I just traveled back in time for 2012 when everyone was screaming, “Just add BW units, game solved” and “Colossi are boring, add reavers!”, because that would fix sometime, somehow...
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
jiberish
Profile Joined April 2011
80 Posts
March 18 2013 21:07 GMT
#184
My idea for nydus. Make them cost less/spawn faster but put a supply cap transfer. So they can be used for harassing rather than army dumping.
VArsovskiSC
Profile Joined July 2010
Macedonia563 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 21:19:50
March 18 2013 21:13 GMT
#185
I personally think that there aren't really major changes required, but the Widow-Mine certainly needs a closer look..

Like - I personally think that it's no good for the unit to be nearly OP vs Zerg and not as good vs Protoss.. A bit less devastating vs Zerg and a bit better vs Protoss would be a fine change IMO..

Like maybe reduce the splash radius for some 30% but add a 1.5 sec stun to the hits, that way the mine will be more a sinergy unit rather than good as much on it's own..

Another good example would be the Hellbat - IMO it should have +1 (hell, maybe even +2) armor than currently it has now, but deffinitely not being healable by Medivacs TBH.. Not that it just doesn't make sense, but it also makes them really OP vs Protoss (unless you wanna see every Protoss going for SkyToss/Storm every single game when Terran mechs that is)

Zerg - make the Swarm-Hosts a bit cheaper.. At least make it 175/100 instead of 200/100.. I also don't quite like the upgrade, Instead of upgrade currenly it feels like a necessity, but also it makes hosts a bit too strong as well as boring when researched..

It should rather be Locusts being +10HP instead or sth like that IMO.. Like - something that would make the Hosts be better at penetrating as long as you keep a good eye on them to retreat when you're "out of load".. And yeah, increase the locust's bonus on creep a bit more, right now units can just run away easy without taking some damage, like locusts chase away units, but not damage them (unless surrounded or fungaled or whatnot)

And perhaps Hydras need a buff now.. Like maybe 6.5 range instead of 6 upgraded

Other than that - the game's much more awesome right now..
Another world, another place, another universe, won the race.. :) ;) :P
MrMotionPicture
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4327 Posts
March 18 2013 21:16 GMT
#186
I agree with what he says. The game is young, and people are figuring it out. Seems a lot better than when WoL first launched.
"Elvis Presley" | Ret was looking at my post in the GSL video by Artosis. | MMA told me I look like Juanfran while we shared an elevator with Scarlett
Jochan
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Poland1730 Posts
March 18 2013 21:19 GMT
#187
I like this post, Blizzard has never been so open and I hope it's just not a one time thing. I agree with their approach to wait out, game is just being figured out, this tournament tough me a few things about zerg gameplay and how to approach certain things. They really have to wait, zerg will always look "weak" as a reactionary race and terrans will post better results with a "surprise builds".
"(...)all in the game, yo. All in the game"
VArsovskiSC
Profile Joined July 2010
Macedonia563 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 21:21:47
March 18 2013 21:20 GMT
#188
I personally think that there aren't really major changes required, but some of the new units (Widow-Mine for example) certainly needs a closer look..

Like - I personally think that it's no good for the unit to be nearly OP vs Zerg and not as good vs Protoss.. A bit less devastating vs Zerg and a bit better vs Protoss would be a fine change IMO..

Like maybe reduce the splash radius for some 30% but add a 1.5 sec stun to the hits, that way the mine will be more a sinergy unit rather than good as much on it's own..

Another good example would be the Hellbat - IMO it should have +1 (hell, maybe even +2) armor than currently it has now, but deffinitely not being healable by Medivacs TBH.. Not that it just doesn't make sense, but it also makes them really OP vs Protoss (unless you wanna see every Protoss going for SkyToss/Storm every single game when Terran mechs that is)

Zerg - make the Swarm-Hosts a bit cheaper.. At least make it 175/100 instead of 200/100.. I also don't quite like the upgrade, Instead of upgrade currenly it feels like a necessity, but also it makes hosts a bit too strong as well as boring when researched..

It should rather be Locusts being +10HP instead or sth like that IMO.. Like - something that would make the Hosts be better at penetrating as long as you keep a good eye on them to retreat when you're "out of load".. And yeah, increase the locust's bonus on creep a bit more, right now units can just run away easy without taking some damage, like locusts chase away units, but not damage them (unless surrounded or fungaled or whatnot)

And perhaps Hydras need a buff now.. Like maybe 6.5 range instead of 6 upgraded

Other than that - the game's much more awesome right now..
Another world, another place, another universe, won the race.. :) ;) :P
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
March 18 2013 21:20 GMT
#189
Dustin Browder, you've done good.

This is the perfect stance on balance and I agree with what he's saying about more exciting games, every game of MLG I've seen so far has been throroughly entertaining.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Crazylein
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany4 Posts
March 18 2013 21:24 GMT
#190
Perfect response, sir Kim!
Flash FIGHTIN!
Jisall
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2054 Posts
March 18 2013 21:25 GMT
#191
Give corrupters the Ability "Corrupt"

Corrupter kills iteself, suiciding into the enemy aircraft dealing Scourgelike damage.
Monk: Because being a badass is more fun then playing a dude wearing a scarf.. ... Ite fuck it, Witch Doctor cuz I like killing stuff in a timely mannor.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
March 18 2013 21:27 GMT
#192
On March 19 2013 06:03 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2013 05:54 ALPINA wrote:
On March 19 2013 05:50 TigerKarl wrote:
I hope that they're not afraid to massively change boring units like void rays, corrupters. I had hoped that they'd remove and replace them completely, due to them not having a BroodWar background, but sadly that didn't happen, which will turn out to be a mistake.


Blizzard is clueless in that regard. They had all the time in the world to change corruptor but they didn't even touched it. I am not even talking about collossus - most boring unit in the game. Just replace it with reaver, adjust damage accordingly and game becomes so much more better.


Man, I just traveled back in time for 2012 when everyone was screaming, “Just add BW units, game solved” and “Colossi are boring, add reavers!”, because that would fix sometime, somehow...

People were saying the same things in 2011, 2010, and probably in 2009 and earlier too.

I'm at least happy that Blizzard had the balls to replace and add new units instead of making a carbon-copy of BW.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
bacoatc
Profile Joined November 2011
El Salvador26 Posts
March 18 2013 21:31 GMT
#193
i think nydus is too expensive gas i could if cost 50 gas or a little bit more
Never give up,just dream big and believe in yourself
Futabot
Profile Joined October 2011
United States37 Posts
March 18 2013 21:32 GMT
#194
I've always wondered what would happen if Nydus Worms didn't make a ruckus.
One rax. One pylon.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
March 18 2013 21:33 GMT
#195
Kespa should just make custom maps with reavers and lurkers and everything else as it is, just to see what happens
SpikeStarcraft
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany2095 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 21:40:23
March 18 2013 21:39 GMT
#196
lately i feel kinda bad when i abuse medivacs so much... when people just give up because im commuting between third and main and kill everything.. so that they just gg and leave, without ever fighting my army.

or that im just hopping from base to base and take them out while ultra infestor is too slow to catch up...

It feels very very strong and im n1 diamond now... i guess i can finally get master now because of this :D

I dunno... maybe they just havent learnt to deal with it good enough... but i have a lot of fun.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
March 18 2013 21:45 GMT
#197
You really can't determine too much about balance right now with such a small sample. Zerg seems weak, but we don't yet know how weak. It's like how FruitDealer and NesTea won the first 2 GSLs and then a year later we had 20 terrans in Code S, Zerg wasn't "fine" despite the fact that the zergs who actually made it to the Ro8 ended up winning the whole tournament, much like Life at MLG.

"We're not going to balance anything right now" is obviously the correct decision since we don't know that much about the balance, but it doesn't mean "HotS is balanced", and it's actually very unlikely that they accidentally made a balanced game at such an early stage of its lifespan.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10126 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 21:47:23
March 18 2013 21:45 GMT
#198
On March 19 2013 01:38 Al Bundy wrote:
Show nested quote +
Nobody is close to figuring the game out yet.

Man that should be on top of every LR thread.

Also the definition of fun can be very subjective. I don't understand why some people would believe that powerful units = boring units but hey.


Well i don'tthink that would help. There is the "No balance discussion" and people just ignore it.

Good to read this from DK, totally agreed, even if i believe eventually medivacs may use slight changes, i don't think we had seen the adjustments from players to really have a clue what to do with them if at the end is needed for the game to nerf them. I also hope they take maps into account this time before nerfing.

Btw, i am pretty sure DK knows and doesn't mean by this that the game is balanced. Noone on their right mind could claim that after one week of release.
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
March 18 2013 21:50 GMT
#199
good
syncopate
Profile Joined April 2011
United States70 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 21:51:26
March 18 2013 21:50 GMT
#200
I think Blizzard should consider holding a private inhouse tournament with 16 or 32 players of this caliber while developing LotV so they have a chance to tweak things well in advance of release.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2618
actioN 735
PianO 441
ggaemo 255
Zeus 174
JulyZerg 97
Aegong 31
HiyA 30
Sharp 27
Rush 20
[ Show more ]
Shine 18
zelot 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
soO 13
ivOry 4
Hm[arnc] 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe215
League of Legends
JimRising 524
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K813
shoxiejesuss595
allub169
Super Smash Bros
Westballz33
Other Games
gofns8545
FrodaN1460
olofmeister416
WinterStarcraft387
Happy176
Mew2King82
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick959
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1023
• Stunt635
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1h 22m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2h 22m
Online Event
5h 22m
Replay Cast
15h 22m
LiuLi Cup
1d 2h
Online Event
1d 6h
BSL Team Wars
1d 10h
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Online Event
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
[ Show More ]
CSO Contender
2 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Bonyth
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
4 days
RotterdaM Event
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
PiGosaur Monday
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

StarCon 2025 Philadelphia
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.