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On March 19 2013 06:57 Msr wrote:
It was pretty obvious they are not going to nerf obviously broken units right now because those broken units produce far better games. Oh well they should do atleast minor changes soon.
When you consider it took them around 18 months for them to nerf obviously broken units that produce terrible games, here's hoping they do indeed hold on those nerfs.
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Great! I think it's WAY too soon to nerf Widow Mines or Medivacs, just look at Life his game and how he handled them. Same thing goes for oracles etc.
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yeah agree, don't make any changes yet.
but there's one thing that's pretty obvious and it's been going on for a while now, they need to nerf st_life
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I just don't want to see so much nerfing, more of buffing the "worse" races would be a better idea!
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I truly agree with this, much like WoL in its opening days HotS will be volatile, as such making rash decisions could prove fatal, let players have sometime to figure things out before planning the next move
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Yeah MC is the real innovation!
Go HoTs!
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bleh total lackluster response..
Swarmhost sees almost no play and mech is nowhere to be seen, there should definately be some concerns...
That said, widowmine stuff was cool and MLG was just a fairly solid tournaments. I think the aggressiveness is just a temporary thing though and the game will settle very soon into boring stuff.
I felt MLG was aggressive for two reasons:
- lategame balance sucks in TvP and PvZ. The natural solution for a pro is just not to let it get that far, Life especially succeeded in this against MC. Fun games perhaps but signs of a bad matchup.
- timings need some more figuring out, when things are unknown it's usually best to be the active player. A passive responsive style requires more knowledge of the game whereas active aggressive play is much easier to focus on since you pretty much know what will happen that game.
For example I expect early zerg aggression to be a joke soon once Terran tweaks the builds to incorporate an early siege tank or two in their macro builds or get better at widow mine usage (not letting them get spiked by a single zergling for example)
Medivac buff is interesting for harass but it also contains protoss far too easily besides being rediculously broken. Colossus play or just 3 base play in general is near impossible for protoss now since doomdropping the main while threating to kill the third is too easy now. Letting the thrusters work like stim (cost of 10 hp) or just nerfing the speed a bit will be neccesary.
Overall, game turns out a bit better so far than what I thought from beta, I can appreciate widow mine especially in it's current state. TvP needs a whole lot of work though (hopefully mech fix eventually) and many tweaks need to be made still but it's going somewhere
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Good call. Honestly looking at MLG, even if many people are seeing race issues, I'm looking at the top 4 of the tournament and seeing the obvious top players actually finishing at the top. It's a sign that player skill is showing rather than race imbalances with random upsets. The game definitely needs more time to work itself out.
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On March 19 2013 07:56 Markwerf wrote:
bleh total lackluster response..
Swarmhost sees almost no play and mech is nowhere to be seen, there should definately be some concerns...
That said, widowmine stuff was cool and MLG was just a fairly solid tournaments. I think the aggressiveness is just a temporary thing though and the game will settle very soon into boring stuff.
I felt MLG was aggressive for two reasons:
- lategame balance sucks in TvP and PvZ. The natural solution for a pro is just not to let it get that far, Life especially succeeded in this against MC. Fun games perhaps but signs of a bad matchup.
- timings need some more figuring out, when things are unknown it's usually best to be the active player. A passive responsive style requires more knowledge of the game whereas active aggressive play is much easier to focus on since you pretty much know what will happen that game.
For example I expect early zerg aggression to be a joke soon once Terran tweaks the builds to incorporate an early siege tank or two in their macro builds or get better at widow mine usage (not letting them get spiked by a single zergling for example)
Medivac buff is interesting for harass but it also contains protoss far too easily besides being rediculously broken. Colossus play or just 3 base play in general is near impossible for protoss now since doomdropping the main while threating to kill the third is too easy now. Letting the thrusters work like stim (cost of 10 hp) or just nerfing the speed a bit will be neccesary.
Overall, game turns out a bit better so far than what I thought from beta, I can appreciate widow mine especially in it's current state. TvP needs a whole lot of work though (hopefully mech fix eventually) and many tweaks need to be made still but it's going somewhere
hellion wasn't seen either until a good 6 months+ into the expansion.
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They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.
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Thank god the they aren't listening to all the whiners. The games been out for a week and it's had 1 tourney (that was by far the most entertaining tourney for sc2 ever -- yes opinion)... leave it be for a bit.
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No mention of mech in tvp. Hopefully they will find a way for it to work in lotv. Otherwise it would be so disappointing with all 3 games, only bio is viable in tvp.
The new medivac is so mobile, it just makes perfect sense to constantly dropping because it is easier to go in and out.
Swarm hosts lack of appearance might just be Zerg pros haven't quite got enough experience on them yet. Through I have seen leenock stream where he complained they are rubbish. The problem I have with it is that you neither don't lose any, or you will lose a ton of.
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imo, this is a great direction for the game to go. I would really like to see a nydus buff, to help zergs be more aggressive rather than drop buffs because i feel like if every race is good at dropping the game/races would become fairly similar.
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On March 19 2013 08:00 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.
But you can't really compare DotA to Starcraft... very different games, you need different approach.
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Does it matter if mech is not immediately/easily viable in TvP? Mech was the match-up in BW. So, I am not sure if it should be a concern that it is not viable in SC2. If Terran players make it work, then that will be cool. But, I don't think Blizzard should necessarily look to make mech viable in HOTS. As long as bio remains viable, varied, and fun in the MU that should be OK.
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France9034 Posts
Blizzard definitely scored some points there.
It's a really good stance, and the fact that they don't want to kill units that appeared to be strong during the tournaments is completely right !
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On March 19 2013 08:00 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.
That's a lot easier to do in a MOBA, where balance isn't as easily broken due in part to the teamwork element. In a StarCraft-style RTS, buffing everything else has a vast potential to completely fuck the game. Hell, any change has a chance of completely fucking the game.
Balance in an SC-style RTS is very delicate. Now, that doesn't mean I disagree with the general proposition to buff other things to help deal with the OP Medivacs. But you really have to consider the consequences of each and every change, nerf or buff.
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replace corruption on corruptors with an irradiate-esque spell that only works vs air, which means that corruptors can deal with clumped air balls (voidrays and mutas) and forces ppl with those balls to micro if they want them to work
- you cant stay on mutas the whole game zvz
- corruptors slightly more effective vs voidrays (super effective if the protoss doesnt micro)
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On March 19 2013 01:39 peidongyang wrote:
How are Mexicans in tvp fun when it basically forces toss to 1 base allin or never to move out and just die?
Edit medivacs stupid autocorrect
This post needs to be quoted more often
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to quote MC when was asked how was he, the only protoss, able to do so well against terrans, "they're playing Wings of Liberty, i'm playing Heart of the Swarm"
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EPT
