• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:11
CEST 16:11
KST 23:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results1Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions Flashes ASL S21 Ro8 Review
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Semifinals A [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2067 users

March 18th 2013: David Kim's HotS Thoughts - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 16 Next All
Asshat
Profile Joined September 2010
593 Posts
March 18 2013 22:38 GMT
#221
On March 19 2013 06:57 Msr wrote:
It was pretty obvious they are not going to nerf obviously broken units right now because those broken units produce far better games. Oh well they should do atleast minor changes soon.


When you consider it took them around 18 months for them to nerf obviously broken units that produce terrible games, here's hoping they do indeed hold on those nerfs.
Gihi
Profile Joined September 2011
384 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 22:42:54
March 18 2013 22:42 GMT
#222
Great! I think it's WAY too soon to nerf Widow Mines or Medivacs, just look at Life his game and how he handled them. Same thing goes for oracles etc.
thirtyapm
Profile Joined January 2012
521 Posts
March 18 2013 22:44 GMT
#223
yeah agree, don't make any changes yet.

but there's one thing that's pretty obvious and it's been going on for a while now, they need to nerf st_life
Humfluxx
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden47 Posts
March 18 2013 22:49 GMT
#224
I just don't want to see so much nerfing, more of buffing the "worse" races would be a better idea!
MMM
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13996 Posts
March 18 2013 22:49 GMT
#225
I truly agree with this, much like WoL in its opening days HotS will be volatile, as such making rash decisions could prove fatal, let players have sometime to figure things out before planning the next move
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
iViNtaGe
Profile Joined July 2012
United States254 Posts
March 18 2013 22:52 GMT
#226
Yeah MC is the real innovation!

Go HoTs!
Favorite Players: Bomber | Maru | Life | PartinG | InnoVation | Bbyong
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
March 18 2013 22:56 GMT
#227
bleh total lackluster response..

Swarmhost sees almost no play and mech is nowhere to be seen, there should definately be some concerns...
That said, widowmine stuff was cool and MLG was just a fairly solid tournaments. I think the aggressiveness is just a temporary thing though and the game will settle very soon into boring stuff.
I felt MLG was aggressive for two reasons:
- lategame balance sucks in TvP and PvZ. The natural solution for a pro is just not to let it get that far, Life especially succeeded in this against MC. Fun games perhaps but signs of a bad matchup.
- timings need some more figuring out, when things are unknown it's usually best to be the active player. A passive responsive style requires more knowledge of the game whereas active aggressive play is much easier to focus on since you pretty much know what will happen that game.

For example I expect early zerg aggression to be a joke soon once Terran tweaks the builds to incorporate an early siege tank or two in their macro builds or get better at widow mine usage (not letting them get spiked by a single zergling for example)
Medivac buff is interesting for harass but it also contains protoss far too easily besides being rediculously broken. Colossus play or just 3 base play in general is near impossible for protoss now since doomdropping the main while threating to kill the third is too easy now. Letting the thrusters work like stim (cost of 10 hp) or just nerfing the speed a bit will be neccesary.

Overall, game turns out a bit better so far than what I thought from beta, I can appreciate widow mine especially in it's current state. TvP needs a whole lot of work though (hopefully mech fix eventually) and many tweaks need to be made still but it's going somewhere
SolidMoose
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1240 Posts
March 18 2013 22:57 GMT
#228
Good call. Honestly looking at MLG, even if many people are seeing race issues, I'm looking at the top 4 of the tournament and seeing the obvious top players actually finishing at the top. It's a sign that player skill is showing rather than race imbalances with random upsets. The game definitely needs more time to work itself out.
iky43210
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2099 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 23:00:09
March 18 2013 22:59 GMT
#229
On March 19 2013 07:56 Markwerf wrote:
bleh total lackluster response..

Swarmhost sees almost no play and mech is nowhere to be seen, there should definately be some concerns...
That said, widowmine stuff was cool and MLG was just a fairly solid tournaments. I think the aggressiveness is just a temporary thing though and the game will settle very soon into boring stuff.
I felt MLG was aggressive for two reasons:
- lategame balance sucks in TvP and PvZ. The natural solution for a pro is just not to let it get that far, Life especially succeeded in this against MC. Fun games perhaps but signs of a bad matchup.
- timings need some more figuring out, when things are unknown it's usually best to be the active player. A passive responsive style requires more knowledge of the game whereas active aggressive play is much easier to focus on since you pretty much know what will happen that game.

For example I expect early zerg aggression to be a joke soon once Terran tweaks the builds to incorporate an early siege tank or two in their macro builds or get better at widow mine usage (not letting them get spiked by a single zergling for example)
Medivac buff is interesting for harass but it also contains protoss far too easily besides being rediculously broken. Colossus play or just 3 base play in general is near impossible for protoss now since doomdropping the main while threating to kill the third is too easy now. Letting the thrusters work like stim (cost of 10 hp) or just nerfing the speed a bit will be neccesary.

Overall, game turns out a bit better so far than what I thought from beta, I can appreciate widow mine especially in it's current state. TvP needs a whole lot of work though (hopefully mech fix eventually) and many tweaks need to be made still but it's going somewhere


hellion wasn't seen either until a good 6 months+ into the expansion.
FancyCaTSC2
Profile Joined February 2013
56 Posts
March 18 2013 23:00 GMT
#230
They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
March 18 2013 23:01 GMT
#231
Thank god the they aren't listening to all the whiners. The games been out for a week and it's had 1 tourney (that was by far the most entertaining tourney for sc2 ever -- yes opinion)... leave it be for a bit.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12715 Posts
March 18 2013 23:04 GMT
#232
No mention of mech in tvp. Hopefully they will find a way for it to work in lotv. Otherwise it would be so disappointing with all 3 games, only bio is viable in tvp.

The new medivac is so mobile, it just makes perfect sense to constantly dropping because it is easier to go in and out.

Swarm hosts lack of appearance might just be Zerg pros haven't quite got enough experience on them yet. Through I have seen leenock stream where he complained they are rubbish. The problem I have with it is that you neither don't lose any, or you will lose a ton of.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
IMLyte
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada714 Posts
March 18 2013 23:08 GMT
#233
imo, this is a great direction for the game to go. I would really like to see a nydus buff, to help zergs be more aggressive rather than drop buffs because i feel like if every race is good at dropping the game/races would become fairly similar.
I'ma show you how great I am ~ Muhammed Ali
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
March 18 2013 23:10 GMT
#234
On March 19 2013 08:00 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.

But you can't really compare DotA to Starcraft... very different games, you need different approach.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 23:13:59
March 18 2013 23:13 GMT
#235
Does it matter if mech is not immediately/easily viable in TvP? Mech was the match-up in BW. So, I am not sure if it should be a concern that it is not viable in SC2. If Terran players make it work, then that will be cool. But, I don't think Blizzard should necessarily look to make mech viable in HOTS. As long as bio remains viable, varied, and fun in the MU that should be OK.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
March 18 2013 23:15 GMT
#236
Blizzard definitely scored some points there.

It's a really good stance, and the fact that they don't want to kill units that appeared to be strong during the tournaments is completely right !
LiquipediaWanderer
NicolBolas
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1388 Posts
March 18 2013 23:20 GMT
#237
On March 19 2013 08:00 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.


That's a lot easier to do in a MOBA, where balance isn't as easily broken due in part to the teamwork element. In a StarCraft-style RTS, buffing everything else has a vast potential to completely fuck the game. Hell, any change has a chance of completely fucking the game.

Balance in an SC-style RTS is very delicate. Now, that doesn't mean I disagree with the general proposition to buff other things to help deal with the OP Medivacs. But you really have to consider the consequences of each and every change, nerf or buff.
So you know, cats are interesting. They are kind of like girls. If they come up and talk to you, it's great. But if you try to talk to them, it doesn't always go so well. - Shigeru Miyamoto
nkr
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden5451 Posts
March 18 2013 23:20 GMT
#238
replace corruption on corruptors with an irradiate-esque spell that only works vs air, which means that corruptors can deal with clumped air balls (voidrays and mutas) and forces ppl with those balls to micro if they want them to work

- you cant stay on mutas the whole game zvz
- corruptors slightly more effective vs voidrays (super effective if the protoss doesnt micro)
ESPORTS ILLUMINATI
Dakkas
Profile Joined October 2010
2550 Posts
March 18 2013 23:21 GMT
#239
On March 19 2013 01:39 peidongyang wrote:
How are Mexicans in tvp fun when it basically forces toss to 1 base allin or never to move out and just die?
Edit medivacs stupid autocorrect


This post needs to be quoted more often
MicroTastiC
Profile Joined January 2011
375 Posts
March 18 2013 23:22 GMT
#240
to quote MC when was asked how was he, the only protoss, able to do so well against terrans, "they're playing Wings of Liberty, i'm playing Heart of the Swarm"
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #248
TKL 189
iHatsuTV 26
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 521
TKL 189
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 49051
Calm 6460
Sea 4710
EffOrt 1056
Jaedong 1010
Soulkey 337
ggaemo 323
BeSt 318
Hyuk 276
actioN 236
[ Show more ]
Rush 195
Mind 75
scan(afreeca) 72
ToSsGirL 65
Sea.KH 42
Shinee 35
Backho 29
Barracks 27
soO 26
Sexy 24
910 21
Terrorterran 20
Sacsri 14
Shine 13
yabsab 13
Free 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Dota 2
Gorgc6568
qojqva1372
syndereN164
Counter-Strike
fl0m3225
olofmeister2777
markeloff109
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King84
Westballz24
Other Games
gofns34353
Grubby7301
singsing2190
B2W.Neo672
DeMusliM589
hiko492
byalli392
Lowko338
crisheroes309
Happy278
Beastyqt179
Hui .129
monkeys_forever110
KnowMe90
QueenE64
ArmadaUGS45
XcaliburYe43
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL39959
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• escodisco1097
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota238
League of Legends
• Nemesis1974
• Jankos1465
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
1h 49m
sebesdes vs Iba
Percival vs YoungYakov
Reynor vs GgMaChine
Korean StarCraft League
12h 49m
RSL Revival
19h 49m
Clem vs Rogue
Bunny vs Lambo
IPSL
1d 1h
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
1d 4h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
GSL
1d 17h
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
2 days
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-14
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.