• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:15
CEST 19:15
KST 02:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash6[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy11ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample ASL21 General Discussion RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group C [ASL21] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1710 users

March 18th 2013: David Kim's HotS Thoughts - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 16 Next All
Asshat
Profile Joined September 2010
593 Posts
March 18 2013 22:38 GMT
#221
On March 19 2013 06:57 Msr wrote:
It was pretty obvious they are not going to nerf obviously broken units right now because those broken units produce far better games. Oh well they should do atleast minor changes soon.


When you consider it took them around 18 months for them to nerf obviously broken units that produce terrible games, here's hoping they do indeed hold on those nerfs.
Gihi
Profile Joined September 2011
384 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 22:42:54
March 18 2013 22:42 GMT
#222
Great! I think it's WAY too soon to nerf Widow Mines or Medivacs, just look at Life his game and how he handled them. Same thing goes for oracles etc.
thirtyapm
Profile Joined January 2012
521 Posts
March 18 2013 22:44 GMT
#223
yeah agree, don't make any changes yet.

but there's one thing that's pretty obvious and it's been going on for a while now, they need to nerf st_life
Humfluxx
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden47 Posts
March 18 2013 22:49 GMT
#224
I just don't want to see so much nerfing, more of buffing the "worse" races would be a better idea!
MMM
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13993 Posts
March 18 2013 22:49 GMT
#225
I truly agree with this, much like WoL in its opening days HotS will be volatile, as such making rash decisions could prove fatal, let players have sometime to figure things out before planning the next move
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
iViNtaGe
Profile Joined July 2012
United States254 Posts
March 18 2013 22:52 GMT
#226
Yeah MC is the real innovation!

Go HoTs!
Favorite Players: Bomber | Maru | Life | PartinG | InnoVation | Bbyong
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
March 18 2013 22:56 GMT
#227
bleh total lackluster response..

Swarmhost sees almost no play and mech is nowhere to be seen, there should definately be some concerns...
That said, widowmine stuff was cool and MLG was just a fairly solid tournaments. I think the aggressiveness is just a temporary thing though and the game will settle very soon into boring stuff.
I felt MLG was aggressive for two reasons:
- lategame balance sucks in TvP and PvZ. The natural solution for a pro is just not to let it get that far, Life especially succeeded in this against MC. Fun games perhaps but signs of a bad matchup.
- timings need some more figuring out, when things are unknown it's usually best to be the active player. A passive responsive style requires more knowledge of the game whereas active aggressive play is much easier to focus on since you pretty much know what will happen that game.

For example I expect early zerg aggression to be a joke soon once Terran tweaks the builds to incorporate an early siege tank or two in their macro builds or get better at widow mine usage (not letting them get spiked by a single zergling for example)
Medivac buff is interesting for harass but it also contains protoss far too easily besides being rediculously broken. Colossus play or just 3 base play in general is near impossible for protoss now since doomdropping the main while threating to kill the third is too easy now. Letting the thrusters work like stim (cost of 10 hp) or just nerfing the speed a bit will be neccesary.

Overall, game turns out a bit better so far than what I thought from beta, I can appreciate widow mine especially in it's current state. TvP needs a whole lot of work though (hopefully mech fix eventually) and many tweaks need to be made still but it's going somewhere
SolidMoose
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1240 Posts
March 18 2013 22:57 GMT
#228
Good call. Honestly looking at MLG, even if many people are seeing race issues, I'm looking at the top 4 of the tournament and seeing the obvious top players actually finishing at the top. It's a sign that player skill is showing rather than race imbalances with random upsets. The game definitely needs more time to work itself out.
iky43210
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2099 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 23:00:09
March 18 2013 22:59 GMT
#229
On March 19 2013 07:56 Markwerf wrote:
bleh total lackluster response..

Swarmhost sees almost no play and mech is nowhere to be seen, there should definately be some concerns...
That said, widowmine stuff was cool and MLG was just a fairly solid tournaments. I think the aggressiveness is just a temporary thing though and the game will settle very soon into boring stuff.
I felt MLG was aggressive for two reasons:
- lategame balance sucks in TvP and PvZ. The natural solution for a pro is just not to let it get that far, Life especially succeeded in this against MC. Fun games perhaps but signs of a bad matchup.
- timings need some more figuring out, when things are unknown it's usually best to be the active player. A passive responsive style requires more knowledge of the game whereas active aggressive play is much easier to focus on since you pretty much know what will happen that game.

For example I expect early zerg aggression to be a joke soon once Terran tweaks the builds to incorporate an early siege tank or two in their macro builds or get better at widow mine usage (not letting them get spiked by a single zergling for example)
Medivac buff is interesting for harass but it also contains protoss far too easily besides being rediculously broken. Colossus play or just 3 base play in general is near impossible for protoss now since doomdropping the main while threating to kill the third is too easy now. Letting the thrusters work like stim (cost of 10 hp) or just nerfing the speed a bit will be neccesary.

Overall, game turns out a bit better so far than what I thought from beta, I can appreciate widow mine especially in it's current state. TvP needs a whole lot of work though (hopefully mech fix eventually) and many tweaks need to be made still but it's going somewhere


hellion wasn't seen either until a good 6 months+ into the expansion.
FancyCaTSC2
Profile Joined February 2013
56 Posts
March 18 2013 23:00 GMT
#230
They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.
Pufftrees
Profile Joined March 2009
2449 Posts
March 18 2013 23:01 GMT
#231
Thank god the they aren't listening to all the whiners. The games been out for a week and it's had 1 tourney (that was by far the most entertaining tourney for sc2 ever -- yes opinion)... leave it be for a bit.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12700 Posts
March 18 2013 23:04 GMT
#232
No mention of mech in tvp. Hopefully they will find a way for it to work in lotv. Otherwise it would be so disappointing with all 3 games, only bio is viable in tvp.

The new medivac is so mobile, it just makes perfect sense to constantly dropping because it is easier to go in and out.

Swarm hosts lack of appearance might just be Zerg pros haven't quite got enough experience on them yet. Through I have seen leenock stream where he complained they are rubbish. The problem I have with it is that you neither don't lose any, or you will lose a ton of.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
IMLyte
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada714 Posts
March 18 2013 23:08 GMT
#233
imo, this is a great direction for the game to go. I would really like to see a nydus buff, to help zergs be more aggressive rather than drop buffs because i feel like if every race is good at dropping the game/races would become fairly similar.
I'ma show you how great I am ~ Muhammed Ali
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
March 18 2013 23:10 GMT
#234
On March 19 2013 08:00 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.

But you can't really compare DotA to Starcraft... very different games, you need different approach.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 23:13:59
March 18 2013 23:13 GMT
#235
Does it matter if mech is not immediately/easily viable in TvP? Mech was the match-up in BW. So, I am not sure if it should be a concern that it is not viable in SC2. If Terran players make it work, then that will be cool. But, I don't think Blizzard should necessarily look to make mech viable in HOTS. As long as bio remains viable, varied, and fun in the MU that should be OK.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
March 18 2013 23:15 GMT
#236
Blizzard definitely scored some points there.

It's a really good stance, and the fact that they don't want to kill units that appeared to be strong during the tournaments is completely right !
LiquipediaWanderer
NicolBolas
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1388 Posts
March 18 2013 23:20 GMT
#237
On March 19 2013 08:00 FancyCaTSC2 wrote:
They should try what has been done for years in Dota. Hardly nerf the "OP" stuff, but rather throw out buffs to everything so everything seems overpowered. Strangely enough it often evens out.


That's a lot easier to do in a MOBA, where balance isn't as easily broken due in part to the teamwork element. In a StarCraft-style RTS, buffing everything else has a vast potential to completely fuck the game. Hell, any change has a chance of completely fucking the game.

Balance in an SC-style RTS is very delicate. Now, that doesn't mean I disagree with the general proposition to buff other things to help deal with the OP Medivacs. But you really have to consider the consequences of each and every change, nerf or buff.
So you know, cats are interesting. They are kind of like girls. If they come up and talk to you, it's great. But if you try to talk to them, it doesn't always go so well. - Shigeru Miyamoto
nkr
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden5451 Posts
March 18 2013 23:20 GMT
#238
replace corruption on corruptors with an irradiate-esque spell that only works vs air, which means that corruptors can deal with clumped air balls (voidrays and mutas) and forces ppl with those balls to micro if they want them to work

- you cant stay on mutas the whole game zvz
- corruptors slightly more effective vs voidrays (super effective if the protoss doesnt micro)
ESPORTS ILLUMINATI
Dakkas
Profile Joined October 2010
2550 Posts
March 18 2013 23:21 GMT
#239
On March 19 2013 01:39 peidongyang wrote:
How are Mexicans in tvp fun when it basically forces toss to 1 base allin or never to move out and just die?
Edit medivacs stupid autocorrect


This post needs to be quoted more often
MicroTastiC
Profile Joined January 2011
375 Posts
March 18 2013 23:22 GMT
#240
to quote MC when was asked how was he, the only protoss, able to do so well against terrans, "they're playing Wings of Liberty, i'm playing Heart of the Swarm"
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#46
RotterdaM643
TKL 282
IndyStarCraft 198
BRAT_OK 132
SteadfastSC110
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 643
mouzHeroMarine 378
Hui .319
TKL 306
BRAT_OK 150
SteadfastSC 105
UpATreeSC 73
elazer 43
Trikslyr42
MindelVK 22
IndyStarCraft 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3867
EffOrt 1118
Bisu 878
actioN 341
Hyuk 278
Soulkey 270
firebathero 214
ggaemo 204
Snow 178
Sharp 122
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 96
hero 72
Hyun 52
Backho 42
Shine 29
Terrorterran 17
soO 17
GoRush 14
Bale 14
yabsab 13
910 9
SilentControl 8
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma224
League of Legends
Reynor42
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps2014
fl0m925
byalli180
Other Games
singsing1984
B2W.Neo1705
Beastyqt683
ceh9464
crisheroes235
KnowMe172
ProTech109
QueenE42
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV66
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 5
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 38
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2336
• WagamamaTV814
League of Legends
• Jankos5744
• Nemesis2863
• TFBlade1162
Other Games
• imaqtpie247
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 45m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 45m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 45m
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
PiGosaur Cup
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 16h
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.