StarCraft 2 story = WarCraft 3 story? - Page 4

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ratbert

Germany1041 Posts

March 16 2013 15:26 GMT

#61

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On March 16 2013 23:52 ZodaSoda wrote:

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On March 16 2013 23:35 naastyOne wrote:
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Hi
I played wings of liberty and heart of the swarm campaign. Also I played warcraft 3 reign of chaos and frozen throne campaign, I also played Mass Effect, and u know what? These stories looks very similar to me.

Let me show you some of those similiarities:

[wc3] There is a prophecy of end of the world by Prophet Medivh
[sc2] There is a prophecy of end of the world by Zeratul
[ME] There is a protean prophecy uncovered by Shepard.

[wc3] There is a guy who wants to destroy everything - Archimonde
[sc2] There is a guy who wants to destroy everything - Amon (dark voice)
[ME] Reapers want to destroy everything.

[wc3] Lich king Nerzhul is prisoner of Burning Legion (Archimonde)
[sc2] Overmind is prisoner of Xel Naga (Amon)
[ME] Reaper Soverign imprisons and indoctrinetes Saren.

[wc3] Undead forces are only beginning of true invasion of Burning Legion armies
[sc2] Zerg forces are only beginning of true invasion of Xel Naga hybrids
[ME] The Geth invasion is only the begining of Reaper invasion

[wc3] Nerzhul changes prince Arthas into his undead officer
[sc2] Overmind changes Kerrigan into his zerg officer
[ME] Saren is indoctrinated and used to lead the indoctrinated.

[wc3] Arthas becomes new lich king at the end
[sc2] Kerrigan becomes new overmind at the end
[ME] Shepard can become the Reaper in the end.

[wc3] There is a outcast guy - Illidan Stormrage
[sc2] There is a outcast guy - Zeratul
[ME] Shepard is outcasted in ME2.

[wc3] There is a mystic item - Sword Frostmourne
[sc2] There is a mystic item - Xel Naga Artifact
[ME] There are Prothean beakens, the the catalyst, ex.

[wc3] There is a love plot between Tyrande Whisperwind and Furion Stormrage
[sc2] There is a love plot between Sarah Kerrigan and James Raynor
[ME]There is a love plot between Shepard and (anyone)Liara

[wc3] There is a fall of current human emperor - Arthas kill his father
[sc2] There is a fall of current human emperor - Kerrigan kill Mengsk
[ME] There is a fall of uman goverment in the begining of ME3

What you guys think? What other similiarities u guys see between those three stories?

I can add to that, cause generalization is easy

[wc3] There is a prophecy of end of the world by Prophet Medivh
[sc2] There is a prophecy of end of the world by Zeratul
[Zelda] There is a prophecy of the beginning of the world by Goddesses
[FF8] There is a prophecy of the end of the world by Ultimecia

[wc3] There is a guy who wants to destroy everything - Archimonde
[sc2] There is a guy who wants to destroy everything - Amon (dark voice)
[Zelda] There is a guy who wants to destroy everything - Ganon
[FF8] There is a girl who wants to destroy everything - Ultimecia

[wc3] Lich king Nerzhul is prisoner of Burning Legion (Archimonde)
[sc2] Overmind is prisoner of Xel Naga (Amon)
[Zelda] Zelda is a prisoner of Ganon
[FF8] Galbadia is a prisoner of Ultimecia

[wc3] Undead forces are only beginning of true invasion of Burning Legion armies
[sc2] Zerg forces are only beginning of true invasion of Xel Naga hybrids
[Zelda] Ganon presence is only beginning of true goal for Triforce
[FF8] Edea presence is only beginning of true attack by Ultimecia

[wc3] Nerzhul changes prince Arthas into his undead officer
[sc2] Overmind changes Kerrigan into his zerg officer
[Zelda] Master sword changes link into hero
[FF8] Ultimecia changes Edea into Puppet Sorceress

[wc3] Arthas becomes new lich king at the end
[sc2] Kerrigan becomes new overmind at the end
[Zelda] Zelda Link and Ganon all represent a part of the triforce at the end
[FF8] Rinoa becomes new sorceress near the end

[wc3] There is a outcast guy - Illidan Stormrage
[sc2] There is a outcast guy - Zeratul
[Zelda] There is a outcast guy - Skullkid
[FF8] There is a outcast guy - Squall

[wc3] There is a mystic item - Sword Frostmourne
[sc2] There is a mystic item - Xel Naga Artifact
[Zelda] There is a mystic item - Triforce, Master Sword, Ocarina
[FF8] There is a mystic item - Gardens, GFs

[wc3] There is a love plot between Tyrande Whisperwind and Furion Stormrage
[sc2] There is a love plot between Sarah Kerrigan and James Raynor
[Zelda] There is a love plot between Zelda and Link
[FF8] There is a love plot between Rinoa and Squall

[wc3] There is a fall of current human emperor - Arthas kill his father
[sc2] There is a fall of current human emperor - Kerrigan kill Mengsk
[Zelda] There is a fall of current human king - King of Hyrule
[FF8] Theres ia fall of a current human ruler - President Vinzer Deling

:D

hahaha, as someone who played all of those games, i had a very good laugh. thank you

Stratos_speAr

United States6959 Posts

March 16 2013 15:28 GMT

#62

I don't think the problem is that Blizzard used a bunch of trashy, recycled fantasy tropes. The problem is that they copy/pasted the story from their own story that they've already done (Warcraft).

nanaoei

3358 Posts

March 16 2013 15:35 GMT

#63

On March 16 2013 22:25 Rabiator wrote:
Not only is the story of SC2 "very similar" to that of WC3, we also have a "hero based campaign" (which does NOT affect the multiplayer) with LOTS of spellcaster units or clickable unit abilities (which does affect the multiplayer).

These two "design styles" are from Warcraft 3 and negatively affect the multiplayer of SC2 because too many clickies makes the game harder to play for casuals and creates a gap between the races. Protoss for example - the race with most clickies - is noticeably harder to play than Zerg, because the units are balanced with these abilities in mind. Terrible design decisions ...

In WC3 the amount of units on the battlefield was VERY VERY SMALL compared to SC2, so the clickies of the units didnt have that much of an effect, but compare that to SC2 where 25 Infestors can easily swarm an enemy army for zero resource cost.

So they tried to make a game which "has it all" and failed to see the problems with that design philosophy. You can never "have it all" without losing something important in the process.

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I can give a little bit of insight on this lack of imagination. Mike Morhaime is the CEO of Blizzard ... the company which produces the biggest mmoRPG on the planet. Now watch this video and look for his reaction to ROLEPLAYING ...

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He has no clue what roleplaying is about and I think it might be the same ignorance going on about a lot of important things in other departments as well. They tried to grab all the good stuff from several franchises to create a "super franchise" ... but they failed IMO.

I don't get it.. your first statement and the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph don't mesh.. in that the hero campaigns and unit abilities don't affect the multiplayer, yet it affects the game negatively?

That aside, it's still pretty hard to take you seriously if you call abilities 'clickies'.

There are lots of people who look to similarities between things they've done in order to draw conclusions.
I don't know how you expect to please everyone who likes RTS-genre gaming.. but do you really expect to have a game that's just the same as your favourite childhood RTS, but in modern graphics?
Please believe me when i say that people will still be disappointed..

Honestly, the magic in gaming (i'm looking mostly at nostalgia) is when a particular game has you experience a bunch of new things, and has you remember them. I can see the arguments for why SC2's campaign doesn't quite do it.
Let me go on a tangent. Why do you think Starcraft has always been a beloved multiplayer experience?
I'd say that it's because the multiplayer allows your fantasy and imagination to take place in the game, and for you to refine your art as you keep trying new things and improving.
You're saying that protoss is harder than zerg at the casual level, I agree and disagree. Some players decide they want to throw the art out the window and they just wanna' win, and for those situations we have certain build orders that sink into our minds. We have to be conscious of these builds or we risk losing easily and wasting our time.
..But when you have options all the more glory comes to you when you find something that works and you perform it.

I'd be truly disappointed if there wasn't any one race that had those options.

Noli

United Kingdom179 Posts

March 16 2013 15:39 GMT

#64

If you studied story writing or media you'd know there are about 3 different types of story total so no real surprise.

In the end it's always down to the same basic steps for development because they are what work.

SonarCannon

Malaysia25 Posts

March 16 2013 15:41 GMT

#65

On March 16 2013 22:56 Rabiator wrote:

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Like? (Different units dont count as a difference, because it is about the general plot of the story.)

Saying Tyrande and Malfurion are similar to Kerrigan and Raynor is a little weird. I don't think Tyrande was ever forcefully made an undead, killed Malfurion's best (human) friend who then vowed to kill her, only to use some mystical item to turn her back into a Night Elf - only for her to turn back into an undead again. Pretty sure that didn't happen. Only thing similar is that the two pairs are attracted to each other - even their endings are different. Malfurion and Tyrande are together and *SPOILER*, Raynor and Kerrigan are not (at least for now, who knows?).

I'm also unsure about saying Amon is similar to Archimonde - it would be more apt to compare him to Sargeras. Both are fallen ,corrupted 'Gods'. Both were from originally what was a benevolent race that was considered the most powerful race in existence. Both of their races came into contact with something that they fought and imprisoned (The Titans fought the Old Gods, the Xel'naga fought the Voice in the Darkness - which on a side note is NOT Amon, look at starcraft wiki for details).

There are some interesting things in the OP's post like how Arthas and Kerrigan do eventually ascend to become the leaders of their 'race' in SC/WC. But otherwise things like mystic artifacts, the fall of emperors, end of time prophecies are all fantasy staples, and things like saying that the stories are eerily similar because of a love story between characters means that SC/WC are similar to almost every fantasy novel written in existence. Which is probably true.

Lugh

36 Posts

March 16 2013 15:46 GMT

#66

On March 16 2013 23:18 DidYuhim wrote:
Where's the part when Raynor consumes Skull of Gul'dan, kills the Dreadlord(I mean, Xel'Naga) and uses the Eye of Dalaran to kill Lich King(Amon) while destroying the world?

Kerrigan reinfests herself at the primal zerg pool, kills Duran and will, in LotV, kill Amon.

I don't mind the stories similarities too much, I am much more concerned about all that magic thats suddenly in it. I mean Kerrigan using Force Lightning as standard attack and a Kamehameha against Duran who is the servant of an old god.... c'mon, this was Sci-fi once.

BronzeKnee

United States5214 Posts

March 16 2013 15:48 GMT

#67

You missed an important similarity: Sarah Kerrigan and Sylvanas Windrunner.

Both of them are female and started out on the "good" side, but then were forced to join the other side after being defeated in battle. Both were controlled by the master of their new race (Overmind and Burning Legion respectively) but were able to gain their freedom after their masters were weakened or killed.

Then they fought a war to control their new race, Kerrigan battling cerebrates while Windrunner battled Dreadlords.

After successfully winning the war to control their race, they became the Queen of Blades and Queen of the Forsaken, and then fought other races and became the dominant power in their respective area (Lordaeron and the Koprulu Sector).

Tonttu

Finland606 Posts

March 16 2013 15:53 GMT

#68

More like Jaina Proudmoore and Arthas for love story part in my opinion.. But yes, there are some similarities

fire_brand

Canada1123 Posts

March 16 2013 16:01 GMT

#69

On March 16 2013 21:55 haaz wrote:

[wc3] There is a love plot between Tyrande Whisperwind and Furion Stormrage
[sc2] There is a love plot between Sarah Kerrigan and James Raynor

Most General statement. That's in just about every movie out there -_-

[wc3] Illidan loves Tyrande but she is already with other guy Furion
[sc2] Zeratul loves Selendis? but she is already with other guy Artanis?

And this is actually just false.

achan1058

1091 Posts

March 16 2013 16:10 GMT

#70

On March 17 2013 00:04 omgimonfire15 wrote:
Except Kerrigan will never reach the awesomeness that was arthas.

Kerrigan was awesome in BW. Just not in SC2.

Rabiator

Germany3948 Posts

March 16 2013 16:24 GMT

#71

On March 17 2013 00:35 nanaoei wrote:

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They do match (they were never intended to mesh ... since you decided to be picky about words I decided to ) since I was talking about "including lots of casters and clickies". The problem with SC2 is CRITICAL mass of units and for certain spellcasters that is terrible ... which results in totally screwed balance OR nerfed casters. For units with clickable abilities you include a skill requirement which makes the game rather bad for casual / low league players of that race (Protoss mostly). Warcraft III had the option to activate autocast for many abilities, but that doesnt work for Blink, Burrow, Stimpack, ...

On March 17 2013 00:35 nanaoei wrote:
Honestly, the magic in gaming (i'm looking mostly at nostalgia) is when a particular game has you experience a bunch of new things, and has you remember them. I can see the arguments for why SC2's campaign doesn't quite do it.
Let me go on a tangent. Why do you think Starcraft has always been a beloved multiplayer experience?
I'd say that it's because the multiplayer allows your fantasy and imagination to take place in the game, and for you to refine your art as you keep trying new things and improving.
You're saying that protoss is harder than zerg at the casual level, I agree and disagree. Some players decide they want to throw the art out the window and they just wanna' win, and for those situations we have certain build orders that sink into our minds. We have to be conscious of these builds or we risk losing easily and wasting our time.
..But when you have options all the more glory comes to you when you find something that works and you perform it.

I'd be truly disappointed if there wasn't any one race that had those options.

The problem with games like SC2 is that people like you and the game developers believe that "the sky is the limit". Well it isnt, because there are human limitations which make certain things rather bad for games. In BW you had the 12 unit limit and the stupid movement to "overcome" and that is gone in SC2. The thing is that these "game hardships" create a level playing field for all players of a certain skill level. In SC2 this isnt the case anymore and the REQUIRED MASTERY of a certain ability (Blink and Forcefield for example) create a gap between players of a skill level at the lower end; this only narrows down when you reach a higher level of mastery, but even there the requirements for mastering their units are different. No Zerg really needs to learn Marine-split-micro as much as all Terrans do.

In contrast you could a-move your Marines into an attack without ever being forced to use Stimpack ... just adjust the ratio of Medics to Marines a bit and you dont really need it. That is what I did in my casual games.

Starcraft 2 has LOTS of asymmetric masteries which kinda make the game terrible to balance in multiplayer and these triggered abilities are a prime example. BW never had units like that which were massed as they are in SC2 and that is the problem. Spellcasters are powerful because they can focus their power on one moment in time. If they have any stacking damage dealing or control abilities that is a bad design. Since WC3 never had a critical mass of any unit (due to the hero-centered and food design of the game) they didnt have a problem with every second unit having an activated ability. Balancing wasnt affected by that.

Rabiator

Germany3948 Posts

March 16 2013 16:27 GMT

#72

On March 16 2013 23:12 ZenithM wrote:

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The dark side of the force, bro.

I would *almost* give you that, but there is one crucial difference. The dark side only corrupts / tempts Jedi while the one ring tempts everyone it meets (even the Hobbits). Sure the temptation is "the same", but for Star Wars the whole WAR and ACTION is more important than it is for LotR.

You can be "saved" from the dark side, but you cant be saved from the corruption of Sauron. One is a Hollywood story and the other isnt.

AztecTemplar

United States117 Posts

March 16 2013 16:29 GMT

#73

You know...I think we can also say something for LotR for each point in the OP and it'll fit too. So, I don't see much relevance.

Demonhunter04

1530 Posts

March 16 2013 16:33 GMT

#74

On March 16 2013 22:15 achristes wrote:

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Wasn't it the Lich King that pulled that one off to get out of his prison?

Nerzhul was the lich king's name.

But yeah, it's hard not to notice the similarities between the storylines. I thought this was nothing new? There have been threads on this before.

Tantaburs

Canada1825 Posts

March 16 2013 16:37 GMT

#75

Jaina and Arthas is a better parallel to draw then Malfurion and Tyrande

Denzil

United Kingdom4193 Posts

March 16 2013 16:38 GMT

#76

To be honest you could fit game of thrones into that analogy

You could fit many fantasy stories into that analogy

You're picking out selective bits out of context in warcraft they all line up in the Starcraft analogy they're all fragmented and disjointed

HeeroFX

United States2704 Posts

March 16 2013 16:38 GMT

#77

Ya it basically is the same story for the most part, but at least sc 2 is more fun than wc 3 lol

ZenithM

France15952 Posts

March 16 2013 16:43 GMT

#78

On March 17 2013 01:27 Rabiator wrote:

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Of course it's different in many ways :D
Point is, most "similar things" in OP are different from each other as well. You can draw analogies as vague as you want from thin air, basically.

Wildmoon

Thailand4189 Posts

March 16 2013 16:45 GMT

#79

Many things wrong with your comparision.

1.Illidan and Zeratul serve different purpose and are not comparable at all.
2.Frostmourne and Xel'Naga artifact are not comparable in any sense.
3.Mal,Tyrande AND Illidan's story are not comparable to love plot between Raynor and Kerrigan at all.
4.Teranas's fall and Mengst's are as different as you can get.

I would say WC3 and SC2 have different story but will reach the same conclusion which is everyone comes together to fight common foe.

dcemuser

United States3248 Posts

March 16 2013 17:01 GMT

#80

Even if you don't like the HotS story, this thread is still really pointless. The points you raise are all incredibly common - you might as well point out that both stories have a beginning or an ending.

An outcast? A mystic item? A love story? You'd have more trouble finding a story without those elements than finding one with them.

This is especially true because the longer and larger a story is, the most likely that the points listed in the OP will occur at some point, even if they are incredibly minor.

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