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On April 17 2013 01:18 PlanitDuck wrote:
People seem to be arguing a lot about when this started happening.
we came to a conclusion that this started happening when the HOTS new UI features were added into WOL. However this probe getting stuck thing did not happen earlier in WOL when building your early buildings next to a nexus would not cause trapped probes as long as the buildings were flush with the nexus on the building grid. To this day on bnet I still see protoss players make this mistake in obs games or replays and probes getting stuck.
What is odd about this is, blizzard makes no mention of the change and does not seem to acknowledge that a change took place. Leaving protoss players to overnight discover the new issue and deal with it by changing their building placements. It doesn't make the game more difficult or force you to have "better" building placement, it simply forces you to have "different" building placement. IMO it's a non-issue after a couple ladder sessions and forcing yourself to reset the habit of where to place your buildings in certain matchups. It's just odd and somewhat unprofessional to see blizzard make changes like this without informing the gamers.
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On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement
I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place?
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On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place?
Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes....
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On April 17 2013 06:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place? Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes....
If you mean by unit movement, unit spawn position (which is the reason for this thread) you are right.
But Blizzard mentions specifically to use the building hexes for unit movement. Eg. for making a correct wall off vs Zerg.
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On April 17 2013 06:35 Timmsh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 06:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place? Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes.... If you mean by unit movement, unit spawn position (which is the reason for this thread) you are right. But Blizzard mentions specifically to use the building hexes for unit movement. Eg. for making a correct wall off vs Zerg.
What I mean is that what is important to keep track of is unit size in relation to grid corners and not simply make fiat statements such as "this should work for all unit sizes"
Small units gets past through corners and are blocked by overlaps--this is why a pylon corner touching a gateway corner is a big enough hole for probes to get through, but not hellions.
An overlap creates a wall--but corners don't. So it makes sense that the probes would get stuck there--by design. Thinking they won't is simply lazy thinking.
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On April 17 2013 06:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 06:35 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 06:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place? Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes.... If you mean by unit movement, unit spawn position (which is the reason for this thread) you are right. But Blizzard mentions specifically to use the building hexes for unit movement. Eg. for making a correct wall off vs Zerg. What I mean is that what is important to keep track of is unit size in relation to grid corners and not simply make fiat statements such as "this should work for all unit sizes" Small units gets past through corners and are blocked by overlaps--this is why a pylon corner touching a gateway corner is a big enough hole for probes to get through, but not hellions. An overlap creates a wall--but corners don't. So it makes sense that the probes would get stuck there--by design. Thinking they won't is simply lazy thinking.
So you are saying that if you know there is an invisible gap, we should account for it. Well of course we account for it, we adapt.
But to say it make sense for probes to get stuck there by design, just leaves me saying that it's not a very consistent design.
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On April 17 2013 07:00 Timmsh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 06:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 17 2013 06:35 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 06:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place? Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes.... If you mean by unit movement, unit spawn position (which is the reason for this thread) you are right. But Blizzard mentions specifically to use the building hexes for unit movement. Eg. for making a correct wall off vs Zerg. What I mean is that what is important to keep track of is unit size in relation to grid corners and not simply make fiat statements such as "this should work for all unit sizes" Small units gets past through corners and are blocked by overlaps--this is why a pylon corner touching a gateway corner is a big enough hole for probes to get through, but not hellions. An overlap creates a wall--but corners don't. So it makes sense that the probes would get stuck there--by design. Thinking they won't is simply lazy thinking. So you are saying that if you know there is an invisible gap, we should account for it. Well of course we account for it, we adapt. But to say it make sense for probes to get stuck there by design, just leaves me saying that it's not a very consistent design.
the OP's picture shows probe stuck in corner, caused by design, same thing happens if you place 4 hatcheries in a box. if he placed the gateway at the corner, instead of the side, it would not have happened.
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same shit with terran
armory + starport near cc = block
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On April 17 2013 05:18 ThomasjServo wrote:A planned sim city fixes this really well. SCVs would get trapped in BW all the time, Zerg has the slightest issue with certain spawns because of travel time from the side of the hatch the larvae spawn on, Poor Nexus rallies can cause this. Beyond putting in a mineral walk ability for probes and certain structures(which would be ridiculous) I think this is a non-issue. A solid wall is a solid wall. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Nyf0bqwh.jpg) Am I the only one who thinks it looks like the rally on the probe was there, then the pylon was laid down on this picture or am I just seeing things? The pylon is far enough along it is fully possible that the probe that layed it down is already mining again, I am just curious. EDIT: OP was probably just trying to illustrate, and I am reading too far into things again.
this can also occur when placing a building. so in that picture, if the probe as near the corner of the nexus, and then you place the pylon, it will not be able to get out.
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I can't believe that they not fix it yet.
That should be one of the major priorities of future patch.
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EPT
