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OP EDIT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402855¤tpage=4#66 This post by cyro explains the issue the best.
second OP edit:
most of us have come to the conclusion that this started happening when the HOTS new UI features were added into WOL. However this probe getting stuck thing did not happen earlier in WOL when building your early buildings next to a nexus would not cause trapped probes as long as the buildings were flush with the nexus on the building grid. To this day on bnet I still see protoss players make this mistake in obs games or replays and probes getting stuck.
What is odd about this is, blizzard makes no mention of the change and does not seem to acknowledge that a change took place. Leaving protoss players to overnight discover the new issue and deal with it by changing their building placements. It doesn't make the game more difficult or force you to have "better" building placement, it simply forces you to have "different" building placement. IMO it's a non-issue after a couple ladder sessions and forcing yourself to reset the habit of where to place your buildings in certain matchups. It's just odd and somewhat unprofessional to see blizzard make changes like this without informing the gamers.
Ok so I looked around and didn't see anyone else bringing this up but to me it is a inconvenience that has now popped up in HOTS. When playing protoss vs terran or pvp, its popular to build your pylon and gateway and first couple of building right next to your Nexus(this saves travel time for the probe and is more efficient since you don't need a wall) In WOL I always paid close attention to make sure that i built the buildings right up close to the nexus so there was no room for a wayward probe to be trapped as it exits the nexus. However It would appear that no matter what probes will come out of the nexus in the pathing direction that you rally them, even if there is a building occupying that space they will spawn and become instantly stuck, in WOL this did not happen.
Examples:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hETc25wh.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Nyf0bqwh.jpg)
in these 2 examples I am rallying probes out of my main nexus to my natural as they spawn but no matter what if there are buildings in the direction they are rallied the probes get stuck. This never happend in WOL unless there was a 1 hex gap inbetween the nexus and the buildings. The worst part of this is that the probes will stack, I got up to 7 probes in that little space before i noticed it the first time.(mainly because the new UI yelling at me for idle probes)
Am I going crazy or is this happening to other protoss players?
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i'm pretty sure they changed the structure size of the nexus (the little green circle that appears when you select it) and there's enough of a gap now for probes to get stuck
it began happening in wol after one of the recent patches and is irritating as fuck
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On March 14 2013 13:35 State wrote:
i'm pretty sure they changed the structure size of the nexus (the little green circle that appears when you select it) and there's enough of a gap now for probes to get stuck
it began happening in wol after one of the recent patches and is irritating as fuck
ahh I never noticed it in WOL didn't play much of the last WOL patches, that makes sense, but you would think they would let you build in that space that's not being occupied now, I wonder if scvs would get stuck out of a CC now if a terran was using similar building placement.
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It happens to me too, and it is sooooo annoying. A shift click rally from the nexus is the only way around it for now =/
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On March 14 2013 13:41 esReveR wrote:
It happens to me too, and it is sooooo annoying. A shift click rally from the nexus is the only way around it for now =/
omg thx dunno why i didn't think of that, thx for saving my sanity, temporarily atleast.
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Never put a pylon at that position, cause pylon has this weird feature that stuck probes, walling that corner with gates/core doesnt stuck probes
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I'm actually pretty sure that it was like that in WoL because I haven't even played hots and that has happened to me before.
Basically just be mindful of your building placement eh? So long as it's a consistent feature of building structures too closely to the nexus its still something you can avoid
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that happened in WoL all the time, you have to destroy the pylon or shift rally like some one else said...
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been happening forever. dont surround your nexus.
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On March 14 2013 13:43 warcralft wrote:
Never put a pylon at that position, cause pylon has this weird feature that stuck probes, walling that corner with gates/core doesnt stuck probes
I just tried your theory and still got a probe stuck, however this method with no pylon after the first probe gets stuck the next one did not, but still the first probe got stuck.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NnJN9Ax.jpg)
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Never happened in WOL before the patch before HOTS. After playing 7000 games and placing my building that way, it is extremely hard to not do it, I always get like 3 probes stuck every game. A fix would be really cool.
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this usually happens to me in PvT. for PvP i normally place my buildings away from my nexus to provide some vision on parts of my base that's open to in-base proxy or cannon rush. anyway for PvT, it's probably not a good idea to place your buildings like that anymore. towards the later stages of WoL when hellion drops were increasingly popular i learnt to leave small gaps between my buildings to let my probes escape through the cracks cos hellions can't fit through them or warp in a stalker right between the gaps to block hellions.
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On March 14 2013 13:46 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote:
that happened in WoL all the time, you have to destroy the pylon or shift rally like some one else said...
played thousands of matches in WOL never got a probe stuck if there was no hex building grid between the nexus and buildings.
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I feel like that was possible in WoL, too. I'm absolutely certain that I had a few games where I had zealots stuck between Nexus, gate(s) and pylon. I cannot recall ever having probes there, but they must have been able to fit there since my zealots were.
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Ok so I've been testing this for the last hour or so, and there is no combination of buildings that you can place near the nexus that will prevent probes getting stuck, from what I can tell the only solution is to either not build next to the nexus anymore, or to shift-click rally your probes from your main. Pylons seem to be the worst, 3x3 hex buildings like gateway/cyber core or forge etc, cause less of a problem but you can still get at-least 1 probe stuck with those type of buildings. As State said in the first reply to this thread, I believe the real problem here is blizzard reduced the size of the nexus without changing its hex building grid size, leaving some space in there for probes to hang out and drink beer instead of working and mining minerals.
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While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed.
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It was possible in WoL but not as common. It wouldn't happen if you surrounded it with 3 buildings like it does now.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ImXFDWp.jpg)
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On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed.
i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus.
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On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus.
while that is an interesting attitude to have, in the future and even on some current maps, there is a necessity for protoss to wall at their natural or tertiary expansions, all the examples listed so far are based on the main nexus, but since this issue also applies to natural expansions there are some situations where this puts protoss at an un-needed disadvantage, as I cannot build in certain places close to my nexus making wall-offs more difficult and expensive, as I can't use a nexus in my wall. On certain maps in certain spawn locations this could be a huge problem, there is no real reason for blizzard not to fix this small glitch.
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If blizzard won't put in forced spawns because they don't want new players to be confused, then i think they should fix this.
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On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus.
I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end.
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On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end.
i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though.
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Building against the nexus is part of my defense against a possible proxy in pvp. I guess you just need to be careful which part of the nexus you use.
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this was also in wings of liberty, not a bug. still annoying as fuck though.
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Until you've played Terran in BW, you know nothing of the pain of workers getting stuck.
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On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though.
I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid.
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On March 14 2013 13:50 Veezy wrote:
Never happened in WOL before the patch before HOTS. After playing 7000 games and placing my building that way, it is extremely hard to not do it, I always get like 3 probes stuck every game. A fix would be really cool.
happened a few times already in WOL for me, waaaaay before the patch with HotS
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On March 14 2013 16:22 NexCa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 13:50 Veezy wrote:
Never happened in WOL before the patch before HOTS. After playing 7000 games and placing my building that way, it is extremely hard to not do it, I always get like 3 probes stuck every game. A fix would be really cool.
happened a few times already in WOL for me, waaaaay before the patch with HotS
I've had is happen in WOL when there was an open space in the building grid next to the nexus, but after thousands and thousands of games It never happened when the buildings were right up against the nexus with no space, do you use building grid?
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This has existed since the beginning of the game, the first time i built this way in the beta was also the last. Blizzard has not changed anything. You should check out that Gspire building surround post out there, goes into very specific detail about the shape of buildings.
EDIT: WoL beta
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On March 14 2013 16:30 Unsane wrote:
This has existed since the beginning of the game, the first time i built this way in the beta was also the last. Blizzard has not changed anything. You should check out that Gspire building surround post out there, goes into very specific detail about the shape of buildings.
EDIT: WoL beta
I built this way in WoL beta all the way through season5 of ladder while I was a protoss only player never ever ran into this issue after thousands of games of always building by the nexus I seriously doubt that. A link to the post your talking about would be nice, as searches for Gspire or protoss building locations reveal no results.
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On March 14 2013 13:49 dAPhREAk wrote:
been happening forever. dont surround your nexus.
if by "forever" you mean the past few weeks
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have exact same issue. mass recall gets your units stuck in them aswell as you cant decide their teleport direction (unlike wc3)
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happened to me when i am playing zerg, and the worst part? it was an ultra that got stucked....
OH wait, looks like it is another issue then...nvm
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On March 14 2013 16:39 State wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 13:49 dAPhREAk wrote:
been happening forever. dont surround your nexus. if by "forever" you mean the past few weeks
its been happening since sc:bw.
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On March 14 2013 16:17 TheGiftedApe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though. I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid.
yeah, thats not an issue. when its an issue with people who play the game competitively then its an issue. otherwise its just people who need to learn how to position their buildings correctly.
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Since the collision is circular, changing it would result strange behavior if you build 1 hex away. Also don't see a good reason to build this way even if it wasn't bugged, you would increase the way a new build probe would need to a mining location outside your main. And if you need to wall 2 sides of a nexus then its better to use the nexus itself and be aggressive.
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yeah this has been happening to me too. its super annoying, because i have specific sim city for certain MUs and this never happened in BW or WOL so it was never a problem. hopefully they hotfix this because im tired of shift rallying my nexus everytime i take a new expansion T_T
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
Its just the corners of the nexus that are not "actually there", you could see it before with walling - the corners of a nexus have slightly different rules for walling in tightly.
Its just now, probes/zealots are getting stuck because of a change to rally and/or pathfinding. I heard it messed up some other things too - like trying to run a stalker through a FFE wall, if you had a zealot on hold position it used to run to the zealot and get stuck, now it gets stuck a long way away from the ffe exit or something. Just relaying that though from someone when the problems first came up, i didnt test it.
I dont get units stuck any more (had to re-make all of my simcity habits mentally.. lost like 4-5 pvps due to a stuck zealot because the habits stick really hard..) but simcity is much more limited now in what you can do which is a shame.
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On March 14 2013 16:24 TheGiftedApe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 16:22 NexCa wrote:On March 14 2013 13:50 Veezy wrote:
Never happened in WOL before the patch before HOTS. After playing 7000 games and placing my building that way, it is extremely hard to not do it, I always get like 3 probes stuck every game. A fix would be really cool.
happened a few times already in WOL for me, waaaaay before the patch with HotS I've had is happen in WOL when there was an open space in the building grid next to the nexus, but after thousands and thousands of games It never happened when the buildings were right up against the nexus with no space, do you use building grid?
Yes, I always use building grid, but it happened still few times, like 8 out of 400 games or so
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I already started feeling stupid getting my probes stuck on an almost regular bases. I know it was possible to get ur probes stuck in WoL similar to that yet only if u misplaced ur building one hex. I even activated the building grid just to realize that there are no gaps. VERY annoying thing.
On March 14 2013 16:49 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 16:17 TheGiftedApe wrote:On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though. I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid. yeah, thats not an issue. when its an issue with people who play the game competitively then its an issue. otherwise its just people who need to learn how to position their buildings correctly.
seriously, you are just being ignorant. This is an issue especially for non competetive players: If the building grid shows no gaps the probes should not be able to spawn there, hence, not get stuck. A professional will easily remember that and incorporate it in his play. however,if u are just a casual player, this will become frustrating since u cannot see why this is happening.
on an other note, placing buildings next to ur nexus is imperative for certain expansions in PvZ to prevent terrible terrible damage from run-bys.
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I dunno, this happened to me all the time in WoL, so I learned to build in a way that this is not happening, I don't build everything close to the Nexus like that.
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On March 14 2013 17:43 tar wrote:I already started feeling stupid getting my probes stuck on an almost regular bases. I know it was possible to get ur probes stuck in WoL similar to that yet only if u misplaced ur building one hex. I even activated the building grid just to realize that there are no gaps. VERY annoying thing. Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 16:49 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 16:17 TheGiftedApe wrote:On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though. I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid. yeah, thats not an issue. when its an issue with people who play the game competitively then its an issue. otherwise its just people who need to learn how to position their buildings correctly. seriously, you are just being ignorant. This is an issue especially for non competetive players: If the building grid shows no gaps the probes should not be able to spawn there, hence, not get stuck. A professional will easily remember that and incorporate it in his play. however,if u are just a casual player, this will become frustrating since u cannot see why this is happening. on an other note, placing buildings next to ur nexus is imperative for certain expansions in PvZ to prevent terrible terrible damage from run-bys.
i fail to see how its ignorant to think your point is lame. learn how to simcity. there is no map where you need to completely block your nexus. i have had this happen to me so i switched how i built--low and behold, problem gone. blizzard has better things to do than make an already easy game easier for people who dont want to learn how to play.
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Regarding what the op has described, which is placing your buildings on a face or two of the nexus and getting probes stuck as a result, it's been happening since 2.0.4 (aka the hots beta features coming into wol). Prior to that, I've never had this happen to me and I've played...many many games so I know I'm not crazy. I would always make my buildings hug my wall if it wasn't against z. I've "fixed" this habit already, but I miss being able to do it 
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Is the same true for Hatches and Command Centers? I remember seeing somtehing like that playing the campaign.
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every half decent protoss can build his structures around his nexus and not get his probes stuck...
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i started having this problem around the end of WoL
I still build my gate and pylon next to the nexus but now I build my cybernetics next to the pylon instead of against the nexus
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On March 14 2013 18:10 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 17:43 tar wrote:I already started feeling stupid getting my probes stuck on an almost regular bases. I know it was possible to get ur probes stuck in WoL similar to that yet only if u misplaced ur building one hex. I even activated the building grid just to realize that there are no gaps. VERY annoying thing. On March 14 2013 16:49 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 16:17 TheGiftedApe wrote:On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though. I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid. yeah, thats not an issue. when its an issue with people who play the game competitively then its an issue. otherwise its just people who need to learn how to position their buildings correctly. seriously, you are just being ignorant. This is an issue especially for non competetive players: If the building grid shows no gaps the probes should not be able to spawn there, hence, not get stuck. A professional will easily remember that and incorporate it in his play. however,if u are just a casual player, this will become frustrating since u cannot see why this is happening. on an other note, placing buildings next to ur nexus is imperative for certain expansions in PvZ to prevent terrible terrible damage from run-bys. i fail to see how its ignorant to think your point is lame. learn how to simcity. there is no map where you need to completely block your nexus. i have had this happen to me so i switched how i built--low and behold, problem gone. blizzard has better things to do than make an already easy game easier for people who dont want to learn how to play.
I'm gonna feed the troll one more time:
so you think it was an intentional change by blizzard that probes now spawn in places where, with regard to the building grid, no empty space should be?
They probably came up with it after 3 years of WoL, thinking: "wouldn't it be a great idea if probes could get stuck there and every toss had to change their building placement. Also, wouldn't it be cool if we didn't tell anyone about that change? the faces of all those clueless noobs - priceless.."
That sounds like the company that didn't change spawing rules because they didn't want to confuse players with it...
So u don't care, good for you, but not wanting to have a bug fixed because you think the game is too easy to play? seriously...
On March 14 2013 18:16 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
every half decent protoss can build his structures around his nexus and not get his probes stuck...
not any more. u can perfectly occupy all spaces on the grid on one side of the nexuss and the probes will still spawn between buildings instead of the free side of ur nexus. Wasn't the case up until recent changes to the engine.
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this is pretty funky... i don't build next to my nexus and i don't rally my main to my natural (transfers instead)
this would apply to me in custom maps if i'm too lazy to do anything else..
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On March 14 2013 19:03 tar wrote:[ ... ] Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 18:16 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
every half decent protoss can build his structures around his nexus and not get his probes stuck...
not any more. u can perfectly occupy all spaces on the grid on one side of the nexuss and the probes will still spawn between buildings instead of the free side of ur nexus. Wasn't the case up until recent changes to the engine.
Pretty sure it also happened in WoL as long as you just had your waypoint pointing towards the blockade, the Probes would then be stuck. Easy solution => leave the Nexus corners open, don't build around them airtight. I really don't think this is new to HotS and or 2.0 WoL.
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Is it just me who really doesn't notice Idle Workers with the new UI?
Also I have trouble adjusting my eyes to look where they put the new in-game timer clock...
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On March 14 2013 19:15 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 19:03 tar wrote:[ ... ] On March 14 2013 18:16 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
every half decent protoss can build his structures around his nexus and not get his probes stuck...
not any more. u can perfectly occupy all spaces on the grid on one side of the nexuss and the probes will still spawn between buildings instead of the free side of ur nexus. Wasn't the case up until recent changes to the engine. Pretty sure it also happened in WoL as long as you just had your waypoint pointing towards the blockade, the Probes would then be stuck. Easy solution => leave the Nexus corners open, don't build around them airtight. I really don't think this is new to HotS and or 2.0 WoL.
in WoL this only happened to me when buildings were one hex off and it almost never happened to me. since hots, this has happend so often, that I even enabled the building grid just to realize that there are no free hexes and still the probes spawn there.
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in WoL this only happened after the patch that introduced the new hots UI features
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On March 14 2013 19:28 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 15:34 TheGiftedApe wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. while that is an interesting attitude to have, in the future and even on some current maps, there is a necessity for protoss to wall at their natural or tertiary expansions, all the examples listed so far are based on the main nexus, but since this issue also applies to natural expansions there are some situations where this puts protoss at an un-needed disadvantage, as I cannot build in certain places close to my nexus making wall-offs more difficult and expensive, as I can't use a nexus in my wall. On certain maps in certain spawn locations this could be a huge problem, there is no real reason for blizzard not to fix this small glitch. I see in his defense that he forgot the argument: "do you want to make the game even easier?"
he didn't 
On March 14 2013 18:10 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 17:43 tar wrote:I already started feeling stupid getting my probes stuck on an almost regular bases. I know it was possible to get ur probes stuck in WoL similar to that yet only if u misplaced ur building one hex. I even activated the building grid just to realize that there are no gaps. VERY annoying thing. On March 14 2013 16:49 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 16:17 TheGiftedApe wrote:On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though. I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid. yeah, thats not an issue. when its an issue with people who play the game competitively then its an issue. otherwise its just people who need to learn how to position their buildings correctly. seriously, you are just being ignorant. This is an issue especially for non competetive players: If the building grid shows no gaps the probes should not be able to spawn there, hence, not get stuck. A professional will easily remember that and incorporate it in his play. however,if u are just a casual player, this will become frustrating since u cannot see why this is happening. on an other note, placing buildings next to ur nexus is imperative for certain expansions in PvZ to prevent terrible terrible damage from run-bys. i fail to see how its ignorant to think your point is lame. learn how to simcity. there is no map where you need to completely block your nexus. i have had this happen to me so i switched how i built--low and behold, problem gone. blizzard has better things to do than make an already easy game easier for people who dont want to learn how to play.
emphasis added by me
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It's been in the game since the beginning, just learn to shift-rally or change your base layout.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
It has NOT been in the game since the beginning, it was possible to trap probes, sure. But it NEVER happened if you had every square on the build grid occupied around a corner - the probes simply would not spawn there. They would spawn on the other sides/corners of the nexus.
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Happens to me occasionally too. Basically, if it happens once, it's important to set a waypoint for your probes so that it doesn't happen again.
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On March 14 2013 19:03 tar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 18:10 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 17:43 tar wrote:I already started feeling stupid getting my probes stuck on an almost regular bases. I know it was possible to get ur probes stuck in WoL similar to that yet only if u misplaced ur building one hex. I even activated the building grid just to realize that there are no gaps. VERY annoying thing. On March 14 2013 16:49 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 16:17 TheGiftedApe wrote:On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though. I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid. yeah, thats not an issue. when its an issue with people who play the game competitively then its an issue. otherwise its just people who need to learn how to position their buildings correctly. seriously, you are just being ignorant. This is an issue especially for non competetive players: If the building grid shows no gaps the probes should not be able to spawn there, hence, not get stuck. A professional will easily remember that and incorporate it in his play. however,if u are just a casual player, this will become frustrating since u cannot see why this is happening. on an other note, placing buildings next to ur nexus is imperative for certain expansions in PvZ to prevent terrible terrible damage from run-bys. i fail to see how its ignorant to think your point is lame. learn how to simcity. there is no map where you need to completely block your nexus. i have had this happen to me so i switched how i built--low and behold, problem gone. blizzard has better things to do than make an already easy game easier for people who dont want to learn how to play. I'm gonna feed the troll one more time: so you think it was an intentional change by blizzard that probes now spawn in places where, with regard to the building grid, no empty space should be? They probably came up with it after 3 years of WoL, thinking: " wouldn't it be a great idea if probes could get stuck there and every toss had to change their building placement. Also, wouldn't it be cool if we didn't tell anyone about that change? the faces of all those clueless noobs - priceless.." That sounds like the company that didn't change spawing rules because they didn't want to confuse players with it... So u don't care, good for you, but not wanting to have a bug fixed because you think the game is too easy to play? seriously... Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 18:16 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
every half decent protoss can build his structures around his nexus and not get his probes stuck...
not any more. u can perfectly occupy all spaces on the grid on one side of the nexuss and the probes will still spawn between buildings instead of the free side of ur nexus. Wasn't the case up until recent changes to the engine.
ad hominem doesnt make your argument stronger; it makes you look like an idiot. i never said it was an intentional change. it has been an issue since sc:bw first came out. it is an issue people can deal with without a patchfix. learn to play the game, dont whine.
not sure why people keep saying that this is somehow new to HOTS, it was an issue in WoL as well. just because you never experienced it doesnt mean it never happened. it happened to me. instead of writing a thread about it, i just fixed my building placement.
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it happens to me every game. Pretty anonying. It was there in woL too, but now, it happens always. 50 mins lost every game. :D
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This didnt happen in WoL? It happened to me like every fucking game. I stopped building around my nexus lol.
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On March 14 2013 18:15 JustPassingBy wrote:
Is the same true for Hatches and Command Centers? I remember seeing somtehing like that playing the campaign.
i have had it happen with hatches when i do two hatch next to each other and a spawning pool at the right spot. i dont recall ever seeing it with ccs, but i dont usually build close to the cc with terran.
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On March 15 2013 02:07 SkaPunk wrote:
This didnt happen in WoL? It happened to me like every fucking game. I stopped building around my nexus lol.
this . and is VERY VERY VERY frustrating
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See a lot of people asking them to fix it...but has anyone stopped to wonder if possible they did fix it?
Meaning the fact you could change the exit point with buildings may not have been 'working as intended' so they simply shrunk the base nexus size so P would have to operate the same as Z or T. Both of which if you place buildings near your CC/Hatch you can trap drones/scv's queens. At least as far as I know there was no way for Z/T to place buildings to force a worker out a different side of your command structure.
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The trick is to build a line on one side of your nexus. If you do that, you are always safe. Never build an "L" of buildings against a nexus corner.
So do this (N=Nexus, P=pylon, G=gate):
NNN
NNN
PGPGG
Dont do this:
NNN
NNNP
PGPPPG
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GnAYMEt.png)
This is what nexus looks like, green is available build grid.
Gaps are what used to be pathfinding anomalies - but now get units stuck too, even obnoxiously seeming to make them teleport into the gaps when it looks like one of the last places the unit would pop out
Both of which if you place buildings near your CC/Hatch you can trap drones/scv's queens You are mistaken, zerg work with larvae (which is a different mechanic) and terrans can (could) put 3 barracks against the cc corner without a gap in build grid and scv's would spawn elsewhere. Its the same as rallying a rax south - if you have 3 barracks in a vertical line, the marine will pop out of the bottom of the bottom barracks - but the ones in the middle and top will be rerouted to the side. It's slightly different, but still applies.
If one hex is blocked, they just come out of another hex unless there is not a hex available adjacent or diagonally (for a small unit) but in this case, the nexus misses 1 hex from each corner in collision for walling but NOT in the build grid - it's not registered as being blocked any more, because with the 2.0 update, the corner of the nexus (which is blocked on build grid but not collision) is no longer registered as being blocked. If you block a part that is not the corner and try to rally through it, the probes will pop out of another part of the nexus - which tells us they did not force workers to spawn at one point like suggested.
You could not trap scv's or probes unless you had hexes (adjacent or diagonal) available in the build grid but cut off from the "outside world" - Now, the corners count as viable spawn positions because of their wonky nonexistant collision but presence in the build grid, which is messy.
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Yeah this is annoying as hell. There is no reason Blizz shouldn't patch this asap.
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Hasn't this always been around? Just sim-city better...
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On March 15 2013 04:37 viasacra89 wrote:
Hasn't this always been around? Just sim-city better...
sometimes it helps to read the OP and/or the last couple of posts in a thread u post in...just look 2 posts above yours...
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This happened in the last non trivial WoL patch before HotS (2.0.5 I think it was). Noticed after the patch that my standard building placements that I've been doing for 2 years resulted in trapped probes all of a sudden. So whatever they changed then broke it.
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this has been happening to me as well and i have taken it into consideration when placing my structures especially in the early game. i'm also advocating not rallying your probes to other bases and just manually transferring them when necessary to deal with this (and to generally improve my economy awareness)
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Thank god I'm not the only one. It was happening to me every game. It was embarrassing and confusing, because it hardly ever happened before the release of HotS. I'm afraid to make anything by my nexus now.
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I rly don't get why people are saying "This happened since recently", This layout was in WOL beta already, the unbuildable-but-walkable corner. When Terrans were using the CC to block the ramp wrong (This happened a lot in WOL beta) vs zerg, the zerg rush would be able to get trough the wall. Not new at all, Just think when you rally!
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It started happening after the last patch in WoL. Pretty annoying, but I've acclimated. I mostly built my buildings like that out of laziness anyways
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This happens in both WOL and HOTS. As its a pretty big problem I run into with the way I place my buildings =D
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yea i noticed this also its sooo anoying
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Same problem. It never happened to me in wings unless I actually fucked up and made a probe pen with my buildings.
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On March 14 2013 19:43 Cyro wrote:
It has NOT been in the game since the beginning, it was possible to trap probes, sure. But it NEVER happened if you had every square on the build grid occupied around a corner - the probes simply would not spawn there. They would spawn on the other sides/corners of the nexus.
Yea I remember this is how it used to be. Unless you built buildings hugging all four walls of a nexus, the probe would find a away out of the nexus thru an "opening."
Your follow-up post very nicely explains what exactly changed in one of the recent patches to all those not in the know.
On March 14 2013 19:16 Aervhorn wrote:
Is it just me who really doesn't notice Idle Workers with the new UI?
Also I have trouble adjusting my eyes to look where they put the new in-game timer clock...
There was a whole thread on it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397665
tldr: blizzard knows about it and they will do something about it in an upcoming patch.
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I've also been running into it and have started adjusting my building placement or probe rally whenever I fall back to my wol trends! Not sure if blizzard should fix it or not, it seems like something that punish new players and low skilled players the most.
On March 14 2013 16:40 QzYSc2 wrote:
have exact same issue. mass recall gets your units stuck in them aswell as you cant decide their teleport direction (unlike wc3)
In the defense of SC2, in WC3 I have experienced getting units stuck in the forests surrounding your base if there were small gaps in them (played nelf, so the trees were preserved!) when teleporting a large army towards the forest edge (unprecise minimap teleport :-)).
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Its happened to me since like 2011 in WoL, isn't a new bug but it is frustrating 
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Working as designed. Deal with it.
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it can happen, dont let it happen (by building like that). move along.
i cant believe people asking for patches...ughhhh somuchfacepalm.
shit guys, where is the petition to reposition larva depending on spawn location!!????
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This has been going on for a long time in WoL even.
A little annoying when you're rallying your nexus late game, but no biggie
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On March 15 2013 02:34 Cyro wrote:This is what nexus looks like, green is available build grid. Gaps are what used to be pathfinding anomalies - but now get units stuck too, even obnoxiously seeming to make them teleport into the gaps when it looks like one of the last places the unit would pop out Show nested quote +Both of which if you place buildings near your CC/Hatch you can trap drones/scv's queens You are mistaken, zerg work with larvae (which is a different mechanic) and terrans can (could) put 3 barracks against the cc corner without a gap in build grid and scv's would spawn elsewhere. Its the same as rallying a rax south - if you have 3 barracks in a vertical line, the marine will pop out of the bottom of the bottom barracks - but the ones in the middle and top will be rerouted to the side. It's slightly different, but still applies. If one hex is blocked, they just come out of another hex unless there is not a hex available adjacent or diagonally (for a small unit) but in this case, the nexus misses 1 hex from each corner in collision for walling but NOT in the build grid - it's not registered as being blocked any more, because with the 2.0 update, the corner of the nexus (which is blocked on build grid but not collision) is no longer registered as being blocked. If you block a part that is not the corner and try to rally through it, the probes will pop out of another part of the nexus - which tells us they did not force workers to spawn at one point like suggested. You could not trap scv's or probes unless you had hexes (adjacent or diagonal) available in the build grid but cut off from the "outside world" - Now, the corners count as viable spawn positions because of their wonky nonexistant collision but presence in the build grid, which is messy.
Are you certain the same is not true of command centers? In WoL I consistently found that a building placed against the furthest edge of a CC will not wall with it; I was usually using supply depots, but I think I tried barracks and ebay as well. I even used to put supply depots around that little gap to protect a marine or two in 2v2's. I haven't checked in HotS but I assume it's the same; I don't play Protoss, but I would assume it's the same scenario with Nexi and Hatcheries. It happens because the build grid acts based on hexes, but the building models are actually circles within that square. This was the same reason that spine crawlers wouldn't form a tight wall in WoL, although the circle radius was increased to wall tightly in HotS, if I remember correctly.
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yeah, I noticed the nexus got ''flatter.'' Was probably the new selection size.
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yeah this is a pretty obnoxious problem... -.-
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I can't believe so many people are against this to be honest, and not one with a single good issue.
I have played approximately 7k 1v1 games, and everything Cryo says is true. Way too many people posting in here without reading or who are just misinformed. Both Nexus Corners were 'changed' between WoL and HoTS. I understand that this isn't a big issue and some of you dont care, but the fact that this is caused by a 'change' that only really affects casual protoss players, is just bad design. Their was no reason to change this. We just want the old way back, were not asking to make hte game easier.
Protoss building placement is much more important than zerg/terran in multiple mu's. Why can't I simcity like I have for the last 3 years? Nobody has yet given a good reason why Protoss players should be required to re-learn sim city's they have been doing for thousands of games. It was an unnecesarry change that should be reverted. They neither made it easier or harder, they just made it more annoying, which is never good. Cryo's graph shows it perfectly, the two edges function differently then they did at the start of WoL and their is no reason they need to be different.
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On March 14 2013 16:49 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 16:17 TheGiftedApe wrote:On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though. I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid. yeah, thats not an issue. when its an issue with people who play the game competitively then its an issue. otherwise its just people who need to learn how to position their buildings correctly.
It's an annoying problem for all players who have been playing the game for years and suddenly have to deal with a bug in their habitual building placement.
I even saw this happen to MC in the recent MLG matches.
No reason why this shouldn't be fixed.
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Yeah, this has happened to me before, it doesn't seem to be an issue with Terran (and obviously not Zerg) though.
I'm pretty sure this isn't a HotS thing either, I'm 90% sure I've had this happen at least a year ago.
The solution (until there's a fix) is to build on the side of your nexus that is away from the ramp or don't build near the front/back (the bit facing away from the minerals) and the sides at the same time.
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In the first place your building placement isn't beneficial to you, so just change your placement.
This should get fixed however.
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you can destroy the other building to release the prisoners.
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I had been noticing this. At first I thought I was just getting shittier at the game somehow but yeah it's started happening so much it's clearly a bug. Needs to go.
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On March 22 2013 12:07 ohampatu wrote:
I can't believe so many people are against this to be honest, and not one with a single good issue.
I have played approximately 7k 1v1 games, and everything Cryo says is true. Way too many people posting in here without reading or who are just misinformed. Both Nexus Corners were 'changed' between WoL and HoTS. I understand that this isn't a big issue and some of you dont care, but the fact that this is caused by a 'change' that only really affects casual protoss players, is just bad design. Their was no reason to change this. We just want the old way back, were not asking to make hte game easier.
Protoss building placement is much more important than zerg/terran in multiple mu's. Why can't I simcity like I have for the last 3 years? Nobody has yet given a good reason why Protoss players should be required to re-learn sim city's they have been doing for thousands of games. It was an unnecesarry change that should be reverted. They neither made it easier or harder, they just made it more annoying, which is never good. Cryo's graph shows it perfectly, the two edges function differently then they did at the start of WoL and their is no reason they need to be different.
Not saying that a change back would be a bad thing, but why do they need to? As a Terran I don't generally have a reason to press my buildings against the command center like that, but I DO often have reason to wall off at an expansion, sometimes using the CC as part of the wall. Most buildings in the game will wall tightly as long as they touch edge-to-edge on the build grid, so I used to make walls using the corner of the CC. Then I played a few games where I lost because my wall wasn't tight and zerglings got through, so now I don't do that any more. Surely you're not such an unadaptive player that a slight change to your sim city will completely throw off your game, so why not just adjust and move on?
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Yea Protoss building placement has to account for more Terran drop play than other MU's so having your base setup well is very important
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On March 22 2013 05:28 jinorazi wrote:
it can happen, dont let it happen (by building like that). move along.
i cant believe people asking for patches...ughhhh somuchfacepalm.
shit guys, where is the petition to reposition larva depending on spawn location!!????
I wouldn't mind that actually. And the ability for Terran to build a Tech Lab or Reactor on the left side "or" the right side (so MKP can build tech labs on the left of his barracks if he spawns bottom left on Cloud Kingdom for example >.>).
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you think THAT'S bad? try having 2 ultras stuck between hatcheries =\
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Actually, this happened to me the other day. I had 2 Hatcheries touching corner to corner (maybe overlapping 1 square) and got 2 ultras stuck between them
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its pretty annoing but not blizzard problem worthy
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You can get SCVs stuck as well, but it's not as big of a deal with liftable buildings.
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Noticed it, happened in WOL sometimes but rarely, im not sure what changed but something seems to have. I just started not placing building right next to nexus and went on with my life, don't really care for that 1 in 1000 situation when i might lose because of it.
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I don't understand why people would build like this though. TBH if it's at your nat/third surely you want to build a wall rather than protect the Nexus right? And if it is your nat/third why would you need to rally probes anywhere but to your min line?
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This is a major problem for Mr.Cress XD.Always getting my probes stuck like this as I like to hug my builds to the nexus
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be grateful at least that u dont have larva eggs that after a hatch dies some how miraculously will block it from being rebuilt right away O_O ever have an ultralisk like 75% of the way done but u gotta wait til its finished to rebuild ur hatch since u need the ultrallisk really bad ><
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Yeah this has been happening for a while. I purposely leave at least one or two hexes open for my probes to pop out of the side facing my choke, so that when I change rallies they don't get stuck like that.
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I thought I was going crazy...
This has only been happening to me on a fairly constant basis since HotS. I haven't changed any building layouts or anything from WoL.
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Obviously this should be fixed. This does not add any depth to the game and does not to take any real skill, so it's stupid. Even if you do know how it works, it's a silly mechanic.
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saw this happen to a progamer on gstl (?). i have also seen how progamers have adapted to it by putting spaces between the gateway/pylon and the nexus. its interesting to watch people adapt.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wc2bixF.png)
this is the building footprint
this is also the footprint for CC and hatchery
the corners are where workers can get stuck if you dont simcity correctly
this is also why you need to put these touching 2 squares with another building for a solid wall, rather than just 1 square touching like with gateways/barracks/depots/pylon/etc.
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Something changed from WoL to HotS
I usually built my robo next to the natural-nexus in PvZ, so my robo units can spawn directly behind or in front of the wall-off depending on where i set my rally point. Now my immortals and colossi always have to run around the entire nexus
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Has anybody used the shift-rally? In other words, you press Shift, click (where the probe won't get stuck), and click again to where ever you want to rally the Nexus (or maybe it's the other way around with clicking first and then shift clicking the final rally point.
Just wondering, and as I do not play Protoss, I don't know how feasible this is, but I haven't seen it discussed thus far and wanted to throw a possible solution out there.
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On April 15 2013 12:19 DenTenker wrote:
Has anybody used the shift-rally? In other words, you press Shift, click (where the probe won't get stuck), and click again to where ever you want to rally the Nexus (or maybe it's the other way around with clicking first and then shift clicking the final rally point.
Just wondering, and as I do not play Protoss, I don't know how feasible this is, but I haven't seen it discussed thus far and wanted to throw a possible solution out there.
Yes, you can shift click the rally.
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This used to happen to me a bit, you just gotta be mindful of how you place your buildings, as you always should.
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I looked at the title and knew exactly what the picture was going to be. If you're gonna put buildings up against your Nexus just make sure it's not on the side that probes rally from. Take all bases into consideration.
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At the end of WoL I did this shit every game on ladder and I kept forgetting to change my building placement. :[
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
You can shift click the rally, but nexus rallies are changed all the time - for example setting a rally to the fourth base.
Before, you would hit (etc) 5 and right click on the mineral patch - 2 actions that you can perform simultaneously, one keyboard one mouse
Now, you have to perform those two actions - and then in sequence, camera hotkey to your main base, find and right click somewhere appropriate, and then camera hotkey to your fourth and queue to minerals, it's 6 actions and they are much much less fluid.
It's nitpicking a bit, like this is nowhere near brood war level of mechanical difficulty, but it is really really annoying and did not used to be in the game, i don't see the point in forcing simcity away from half of the nexus as a requirement to play because if you dont you can get probes or units stuck there as they spawn
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This happened to CJ herO in game 3 of the MLG Winter Exhibition Final against MKP.
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This is so annoying, I want my first pylon and gateway up against my nexus so that zealots, lings can get as much surface area on the pylon :/
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Why dont you just put the first gate and pylon next to the nexus and the other buildings somewhere else?
With one pylone and one gate it is very hard to trap probes.
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On March 15 2013 02:00 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 19:03 tar wrote:On March 14 2013 18:10 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 17:43 tar wrote:I already started feeling stupid getting my probes stuck on an almost regular bases. I know it was possible to get ur probes stuck in WoL similar to that yet only if u misplaced ur building one hex. I even activated the building grid just to realize that there are no gaps. VERY annoying thing. On March 14 2013 16:49 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 16:17 TheGiftedApe wrote:On March 14 2013 15:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:37 wongfeihung wrote:On March 14 2013 15:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 14 2013 15:05 Belha wrote:
While there are some wyas to bypass this issue (as some people said), this should not be happening at all and should be fixed. i donmt think blizzard needs to protect people from their own incompetence. dont build around your nexus. I, myself, don't build around my Nexus for the purpose of allowing my Probes to properly navigate their way out. That being said, I don't think you should brush this off as one's "incompetence". Some people may prefer to build around their Nexus in this way to prevent the Nexus from being entirely surrounded by melee units (or other positioning purposes). There are reasons that people do things differently than you do, and simply calling their ways incompetent is a bit misjudged on your end. i fail to see how knowing that this will happen and doing it anyways is anything other than incompetence. i guess you could just call it lamebrain stubborness if you want though. I failed to point this out in my original post of this thread but I will try to explain it again to you. The REAL issue with this is not the main nexus. My real worry with this bug is that it severely restricts my wall building options at my natural and expansion bases, especially in certain map spawn locations. As I am not 100% "incompetent" and I know I should not build up against my nexus now, The problem becomes in fast expand builds where holding small area's near the expansion nexus is extremely important. I would use antiga shipyard as an example(even though its a bad map), Spawning top left/bottom right on antiga would make FFE nearly impossible to pull off(without havign to kill my own buildings later) if I cannot connect my wall to the nexus, and it un-necessarily forces me to build the wall in sub-optimal locations, for no reason other than blizzard doesn't want to fix probe spawns. The big problem is going into the future this would force map creators to build maps that allow space around the nexus for proper wall offs(spawn specific location disadvantages are silly and most people agree they should not be apart of the game, look at what happened to tal'darim altar), and that is just a very silly way to go about fixing this issue rather than just fixing the probe spawns. It's not like fixing this would give protoss any kind of advantage over other races I don't see why you are so against fixing this issue and resorting to calling people stupid. yeah, thats not an issue. when its an issue with people who play the game competitively then its an issue. otherwise its just people who need to learn how to position their buildings correctly. seriously, you are just being ignorant. This is an issue especially for non competetive players: If the building grid shows no gaps the probes should not be able to spawn there, hence, not get stuck. A professional will easily remember that and incorporate it in his play. however,if u are just a casual player, this will become frustrating since u cannot see why this is happening. on an other note, placing buildings next to ur nexus is imperative for certain expansions in PvZ to prevent terrible terrible damage from run-bys. i fail to see how its ignorant to think your point is lame. learn how to simcity. there is no map where you need to completely block your nexus. i have had this happen to me so i switched how i built--low and behold, problem gone. blizzard has better things to do than make an already easy game easier for people who dont want to learn how to play. I'm gonna feed the troll one more time: so you think it was an intentional change by blizzard that probes now spawn in places where, with regard to the building grid, no empty space should be? They probably came up with it after 3 years of WoL, thinking: " wouldn't it be a great idea if probes could get stuck there and every toss had to change their building placement. Also, wouldn't it be cool if we didn't tell anyone about that change? the faces of all those clueless noobs - priceless.." That sounds like the company that didn't change spawing rules because they didn't want to confuse players with it... So u don't care, good for you, but not wanting to have a bug fixed because you think the game is too easy to play? seriously... On March 14 2013 18:16 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
every half decent protoss can build his structures around his nexus and not get his probes stuck...
not any more. u can perfectly occupy all spaces on the grid on one side of the nexuss and the probes will still spawn between buildings instead of the free side of ur nexus. Wasn't the case up until recent changes to the engine. ad hominem doesnt make your argument stronger; it makes you look like an idiot. i never said it was an intentional change. it has been an issue since sc:bw first came out. it is an issue people can deal with without a patchfix. learn to play the game, dont whine. not sure why people keep saying that this is somehow new to HOTS, it was an issue in WoL as well. just because you never experienced it doesnt mean it never happened. it happened to me. instead of writing a thread about it, i just fixed my building placement.
Good gods, will you stop saying ad hominem whenever someone calls you out for your trolling? Really doesn't make you look any smarter, especially when you just called them idiots and or noobs yourself. You do actually know what ad hominem means right?
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People seem to be arguing a lot about when this started happening. This certainly isn't just a HotS thing because I've been dinged by this quite a while ago in WoL. I just learned to not trap any corners of my nexus. Some people say that you HAVE to build your buildings that way but I really don't understand why they say that. How would trapping a specific corner of your nexus prevent a run by?
I wouldn't be opposed to getting a fix for this but I certainly don't think that this is as big of an issue as some people in this thread seem to think. Like I said before, this has been happening for a very long time; this certainly has been present before the release of HotS and nobody seemed to care enough to talk about it before now.
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They should be able to fix it you should post on battle.ne forums
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If it's cause problem, don't build here, THX YOU CAPTAIN.
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United Kingdom20322 Posts
People seem to be arguing a lot about when this started happening.
Wha? It started happening with the 2.0 patch, which was the precursor to HOTS
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This has happened for a while in WoL. If you still want to wall around your nexus like that, which I personally don't get. Just don't build 3 buildings so that all 4 corners (including nexus), meet. If you offset the buildings so they are not corner to corner, or you leave paths for the probes, this problem will be a non-issue.
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Yeah, such bugs should be removed fast. Hope to see it new patch. Also hapened to me twice.
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I didn't know this thread existed, so I don't have a screen shot, but I was playing some 4v4 on Saturday and I decided to put my spawning pool very close to my hatchery, at something like a 5 o clock position relative to the hatchery. My untested theory is that having my spawning pool here will buy me a few precious seconds to pick off hellions before they barbeque my main mineral line and stuff like that. However, somewhere between 15 and 16 supply of drones, two of them got stuck between the pool and hatchery. The weirdest bit was that there was a tom of free space to the left (my left, looking at the screen), but the drones still couldn't get out.
This wasn't like the screenshots I see here, where the workers are surrounded on all sides by buildings, there was at least 180 degrees of unobstructed ground for the drone to move over. So yeah, rabble rabble pitchforks and torches out and stuff like that
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This happened to me in my first game as Protoss in Hots. I had to destroy a pylon to save the probes.
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On March 14 2013 13:33 TheGiftedApe wrote:OP EDIT: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402855¤tpage=4#66 This post by cyro explains the issue the best. Ok so I looked around and didn't see anyone else bringing this up but to me it is a inconvenience that has now popped up in HOTS. When playing protoss vs terran or pvp, its popular to build your pylon and gateway and first couple of building right next to your Nexus(this saves travel time for the probe and is more efficient since you don't need a wall) In WOL I always paid close attention to make sure that i built the buildings right up close to the nexus so there was no room for a wayward probe to be trapped as it exits the nexus. However It would appear that no matter what probes will come out of the nexus in the pathing direction that you rally them, even if there is a building occupying that space they will spawn and become instantly stuck, in WOL this did not happen. Examples: in these 2 examples I am rallying probes out of my main nexus to my natural as they spawn but no matter what if there are buildings in the direction they are rallied the probes get stuck. This never happend in WOL unless there was a 1 hex gap inbetween the nexus and the buildings. The worst part of this is that the probes will stack, I got up to 7 probes in that little space before i noticed it the first time.(mainly because the new UI yelling at me for idle probes) Am I going crazy or is this happening to other protoss players?
Things like this makes me miss playing Lost Temple on BW
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I keep thinking some day I will make a post on b.net forum about this but never happens, the bad thing is also zealots and sentries can get stuck there, I have actually had that happen where it cost me the game. This is frustrating as f"#%&...
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jeeze guys why stop here?
-lets also complain about larvae not spawning close to minerals
-addons should be able to be placed on left side
-any building should be allowed to cancel for full refund incase you misplace
-placing 4hatchers in a box formation should not get big units stuck
-what if terran places all his factories next to each other and units get stuck between addon and factory, clearly a bug right?
-expansion building placement should be highlighted so pylon can be placed without having to worry about blocking nexus
-probes should be able to squeeze out of any space so they can place buildings without having to worry about getting trapped from queued placements
i dont know why you blame the game, shouldnt the blame be placed on the idiot for stupid placement?
shit happens, mistakes happen, dont let it happen again.
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On April 17 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:
jeeze guys why stop here?
lets also complain about larvae not spawning close to minerals
addons should be able to be placed on left side
any building should be allowed to cancel for full refund incase you misplace
placing 4hatchers in a box formation should not get big units stuck
what if terran places all his factories next to each other and units get stuck between addon and factory, clearly a bug right?
expansion building placement should be highlighted so pylon can be placed without having to worry about blocking nexus
i dont know why you blame the game, shouldnt the blame be placed on the idiot for stupid placement?
shit happens, mistakes happen, dont let it happen again.
You're talking about cool features that would help you (Larva, Addons, Expansion), game design that's been that way intentionally for ages (Cancels cost money), and some oddities. We're specifically talking probes from a Nexus that get trapped when there shouldn't be any room to be built from that side.
The big impact is protecting pylons from being sniped by zealots and DTs in PvP (Using the nexus as a wall on 4th side). You can put it flush against the center of one side of the nexus, but do it wrong and it traps probes. Since this is doable with shift rallies from Nexus, it isn't the hugest of issues. It is however distinct from the other scenarios you mentioned.
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On April 17 2013 04:33 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:
jeeze guys why stop here?
lets also complain about larvae not spawning close to minerals
addons should be able to be placed on left side
any building should be allowed to cancel for full refund incase you misplace
placing 4hatchers in a box formation should not get big units stuck
what if terran places all his factories next to each other and units get stuck between addon and factory, clearly a bug right?
expansion building placement should be highlighted so pylon can be placed without having to worry about blocking nexus
i dont know why you blame the game, shouldnt the blame be placed on the idiot for stupid placement?
shit happens, mistakes happen, dont let it happen again. You're talking about cool features that would help you (Larva, Addons, Expansion), game design that's been that way intentionally for ages (Cancels cost money), and some oddities. We're specifically talking probes from a Nexus that get trapped when there shouldn't be any room to be built from that side. The big impact is protecting pylons from being sniped by zealots and DTs in PvP (Using the nexus as a wall on 4th side). You can put it flush against the center of one side of the nexus, but do it wrong and it traps probes. Since this is doable with shift rallies from Nexus, it isn't the hugest of issues. It is however distinct from the other scenarios you mentioned.
i too place pylon/gateway around my nexus for the same reason...yet i havnt gotten a probe stuck since bw as far as i can remember. people are doing it wrong is what i'm saying and they're expecting to be babysat from blizzard.
i've had my own fair share of getting units stuck....learn and move on?
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On April 17 2013 01:32 Cyro wrote:Wha? It started happening with the 2.0 patch, which was the precursor to HOTS
I don't think that what you are saying is true. I think I remember this happening much longer before the 2.0 patch.
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On April 17 2013 04:33 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:
jeeze guys why stop here?
lets also complain about larvae not spawning close to minerals
addons should be able to be placed on left side
any building should be allowed to cancel for full refund incase you misplace
placing 4hatchers in a box formation should not get big units stuck
what if terran places all his factories next to each other and units get stuck between addon and factory, clearly a bug right?
expansion building placement should be highlighted so pylon can be placed without having to worry about blocking nexus
i dont know why you blame the game, shouldnt the blame be placed on the idiot for stupid placement?
shit happens, mistakes happen, dont let it happen again. You're talking about cool features that would help you (Larva, Addons, Expansion), game design that's been that way intentionally for ages (Cancels cost money), and some oddities. We're specifically talking probes from a Nexus that get trapped when there shouldn't be any room to be built from that side. The big impact is protecting pylons from being sniped by zealots and DTs in PvP (Using the nexus as a wall on 4th side). You can put it flush against the center of one side of the nexus, but do it wrong and it traps probes. Since this is doable with shift rallies from Nexus, it isn't the hugest of issues. It is however distinct from the other scenarios you mentioned.
All those reasons are fine but the main reason I personally even give a shit is because this wasn't actually an issue pre-HOTS patch. If a patch turns something that wasn't an issue into an issue, it needs to be fixed plain and simple. This isn't a gameplay whine, it's asking for a fix because something broke from the transition into HOTS. You know, kind of like how the idle worker button stopped being useful for some people after the HOTS patch and so Blizzard decided to do something about it.
I don't know what people are talking about when they say this problem already existed in WOL. I've played thousands of games in WOL so I should know. As someone else stated, in pre-HOTS patch, unless you had a hex gap between the nexus and buildings, any rally from your nexus would make sure your probes come out of a "free" side, i.e. if your building placements were tight, there wasn't a problem since the side where your probes gather minerals would ALWAYS be "free". Now, tight placements actually lead to tons of probes stacking in a space that shouldn't even be there.
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I had this problem for some time before I learned to leave that bit of space for the sake of Probes not getting stuck. Could there be ways to fix it? Sure, but it's also pretty easy to avoid if you're paying attention and that preventative building placement is an easy habit to fall into.
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A planned sim city fixes this really well. SCVs would get trapped in BW all the time, Zerg has the slightest issue with certain spawns because of travel time from the side of the hatch the larvae spawn on, Poor Nexus rallies can cause this. Beyond putting in a mineral walk ability for probes and certain structures(which would be ridiculous) I think this is a non-issue. A solid wall is a solid wall.
Am I the only one who thinks it looks like the rally on the probe was there, then the pylon was laid down on this picture or am I just seeing things? The pylon is far enough along it is fully possible that the probe that layed it down is already mining again, I am just curious.
EDIT: OP was probably just trying to illustrate, and I am reading too far into things again.
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I'm having this problem as well. Definitely a new issue, it would be nice if Blizzard could revert the patch that caused that.
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What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement
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On April 17 2013 01:18 PlanitDuck wrote:
People seem to be arguing a lot about when this started happening.
we came to a conclusion that this started happening when the HOTS new UI features were added into WOL. However this probe getting stuck thing did not happen earlier in WOL when building your early buildings next to a nexus would not cause trapped probes as long as the buildings were flush with the nexus on the building grid. To this day on bnet I still see protoss players make this mistake in obs games or replays and probes getting stuck.
What is odd about this is, blizzard makes no mention of the change and does not seem to acknowledge that a change took place. Leaving protoss players to overnight discover the new issue and deal with it by changing their building placements. It doesn't make the game more difficult or force you to have "better" building placement, it simply forces you to have "different" building placement. IMO it's a non-issue after a couple ladder sessions and forcing yourself to reset the habit of where to place your buildings in certain matchups. It's just odd and somewhat unprofessional to see blizzard make changes like this without informing the gamers.
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On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement
I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place?
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On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place?
Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes....
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On April 17 2013 06:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place? Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes....
If you mean by unit movement, unit spawn position (which is the reason for this thread) you are right.
But Blizzard mentions specifically to use the building hexes for unit movement. Eg. for making a correct wall off vs Zerg.
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On April 17 2013 06:35 Timmsh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 06:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place? Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes.... If you mean by unit movement, unit spawn position (which is the reason for this thread) you are right. But Blizzard mentions specifically to use the building hexes for unit movement. Eg. for making a correct wall off vs Zerg.
What I mean is that what is important to keep track of is unit size in relation to grid corners and not simply make fiat statements such as "this should work for all unit sizes"
Small units gets past through corners and are blocked by overlaps--this is why a pylon corner touching a gateway corner is a big enough hole for probes to get through, but not hellions.
An overlap creates a wall--but corners don't. So it makes sense that the probes would get stuck there--by design. Thinking they won't is simply lazy thinking.
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On April 17 2013 06:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 06:35 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 06:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place? Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes.... If you mean by unit movement, unit spawn position (which is the reason for this thread) you are right. But Blizzard mentions specifically to use the building hexes for unit movement. Eg. for making a correct wall off vs Zerg. What I mean is that what is important to keep track of is unit size in relation to grid corners and not simply make fiat statements such as "this should work for all unit sizes" Small units gets past through corners and are blocked by overlaps--this is why a pylon corner touching a gateway corner is a big enough hole for probes to get through, but not hellions. An overlap creates a wall--but corners don't. So it makes sense that the probes would get stuck there--by design. Thinking they won't is simply lazy thinking.
So you are saying that if you know there is an invisible gap, we should account for it. Well of course we account for it, we adapt.
But to say it make sense for probes to get stuck there by design, just leaves me saying that it's not a very consistent design.
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On April 17 2013 07:00 Timmsh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 06:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 17 2013 06:35 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 06:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 17 2013 06:14 Timmsh wrote:On April 17 2013 05:47 Apack wrote:
What this thread is showing is that tons of protoss players have bad building placement I think that's a bit short sided. Blizzard stated that the reason to show the building hexes was to illustrate and help building placement. If there is still an invisible space there, why do we have the building hexes in the first place? Because unit movement is not purely based on Building Hexes.... If you mean by unit movement, unit spawn position (which is the reason for this thread) you are right. But Blizzard mentions specifically to use the building hexes for unit movement. Eg. for making a correct wall off vs Zerg. What I mean is that what is important to keep track of is unit size in relation to grid corners and not simply make fiat statements such as "this should work for all unit sizes" Small units gets past through corners and are blocked by overlaps--this is why a pylon corner touching a gateway corner is a big enough hole for probes to get through, but not hellions. An overlap creates a wall--but corners don't. So it makes sense that the probes would get stuck there--by design. Thinking they won't is simply lazy thinking. So you are saying that if you know there is an invisible gap, we should account for it. Well of course we account for it, we adapt. But to say it make sense for probes to get stuck there by design, just leaves me saying that it's not a very consistent design.
the OP's picture shows probe stuck in corner, caused by design, same thing happens if you place 4 hatcheries in a box. if he placed the gateway at the corner, instead of the side, it would not have happened.
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same shit with terran
armory + starport near cc = block
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On April 17 2013 05:18 ThomasjServo wrote:A planned sim city fixes this really well. SCVs would get trapped in BW all the time, Zerg has the slightest issue with certain spawns because of travel time from the side of the hatch the larvae spawn on, Poor Nexus rallies can cause this. Beyond putting in a mineral walk ability for probes and certain structures(which would be ridiculous) I think this is a non-issue. A solid wall is a solid wall. Am I the only one who thinks it looks like the rally on the probe was there, then the pylon was laid down on this picture or am I just seeing things? The pylon is far enough along it is fully possible that the probe that layed it down is already mining again, I am just curious. EDIT: OP was probably just trying to illustrate, and I am reading too far into things again.
this can also occur when placing a building. so in that picture, if the probe as near the corner of the nexus, and then you place the pylon, it will not be able to get out.
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I can't believe that they not fix it yet.
That should be one of the major priorities of future patch.
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EPT
